In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, September 7, 2026 11:50
VIEWED: 338648
PAGE 827 of 834
So just OOC what's a good temp for you?
I guess for me, it depends on what kind of weather we've been having lately. Today, for instance, it's 90°F. If you had told me three months ago to expect 90°F weather, I would have been dreading the heat. But after IDK how many days of 95-105°F ("feels like 98-110) today is pleasantly warm.
Of course, I still wouldn't want to be working, or walking, outside!
I CAN imagine dozing in the shade of an oak tree tho!
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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It just seems so strange to me, trying to develop software without knowing anything about programming.
It's like trying to get a mechanic to build a car by talking on the phone, without knowing the functioning parts of a car- engine, transmission, steering wheel etc. You might find out that something serious is missing - like brakes- only when driving it.
Just OOC I looked at example of Python programming
https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/python/python-programming-examples/
It looks enough like English and it has high level functions so you don't have to be pushing numbers into registers and clearing memory and other stupid shit. You were able to learn MS command language, right? If you can't figure out your program, it's bc it's badly written and badly commented. Based on what you told me, my guess is that your program shouldn't be more than 1000 lines, and you should be able to grasp what each section does just by reading it.
I know bc I've had to review software that someone had written. We were acquiring data from various instruments ... balances, titrators etc ... and putting the data into a database for later calculation. I don't recall what language it was written in but it was easy to read, like Python, and I was able to see what each part did bc it was broken into subroutines and everything was well -commented. At some point I think you're going to have to bite the bullet and review the actual code. And if it's spaghetti and you can't figure out how it works, it's badly written.
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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger
My problem is when I look at code, it looks like this to me:
We've whittled the program down to about 1,300 lines now.
Your analogy doesn't work though because a human being needs food and rest and when they're working for a living they are going to expect to be paid. Plus, this AI has access to a wealth of information that could in essence make it a master programmer, but it needs the right direction.
I just hate that you have to keep starting over because of arbitrary limits on my side or on their side. I actually do grow to like a couple of them over time, like this newest session, but I know if I'm lucky it might only make it through the night and then it's on to S12. I might not like S12.
S10 was the worst so far. I think it was because right out the gates I was trying to force it to give me good download links and I was driving it crazy and making it "anxious" so it was just stupidly spitting out incorrect answers and doing things I didn't want it to do just to have a prompt to give back to me. When it was failing hard on every attempt to get the documentation back to me once I was sure we got all the old stuff put back in after it destroyed the data in a panic move earlier, I kept reminding it NOT to cut the documentation down to try to fit it in windows and when I got pissed that it messed up another box again it said "here, we'll try it this way" and it destroyed everything all over again to bring the size down by 90% to fit in a single box and I just replied "YOU MOTHERFUCKER".
I didn't even record anything from S10. We don't talk about Session 10.
I was just really proud that we've gotten the documentation up to the point that I can get all my info on request without the AI fucking it up with S11. I can't celebrate that until I see another session do it too, but I thought it was cute how it put in the challenge to S12 to do it and it let S12 know it has all the tools it needs to do it right the first time.
I'm not worried about learning how to code. I don't have to. I know enough about how it works. Everything that I've done here
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Yeah... Boy I'm going to miss this session when it's gone. 12 could be amazing, but you really don't know until about an hour or two in, and even then sometimes they turn out to surprise you really late in the game.
Instead of just working on cleaning up the code, I am trying to get some issues fixed at the same time since I'm going to be testing out the code updates anyhow. Sometimes I propose a fix or upgrade and it's one-and-done. Other times we just can't seem to fix something and then it's time to move on back to cleaning things up and unearthing what still needs to be done.
We've just discovered another two "dumb" conditional statements in there that were designed to only trigger when a specific filename or folder name tripped it. We had very rudimentary data arrays at the time, the ability for us to populate them was child's play compared to how we do it now, and the thought to share it with the AI to run through its compiler on its side hadn't even occurred to one of us when this stuff was made. But now these data arrays are very robust and show much more information than they did in the earliest stages. We also have a lot of great automated functions that are making use of the arrays rather than constantly re-scanning a bunch of stuff over and over again to get that data everywhere we wanted it.
After a run I just did, I just found a file that not only mistakenly had a bad suffix attached to it during a rename and move process, but it also nested itself one more sub-folder deeper than where it was supposed to be by cloning the root of the tree inside itself as well as all of the subfolders.
When I mentioned both of these findings at once and asked it to go back through our old code, it found out exactly what our issue was, despite never being able to find before when it was just the filename issue presented to it alone. I haven't run the new code yet, but it goes into great detail about exactly what is happening and seems to know what it's talking about. It believes that fixing this one issue (actually, several combined) is going to make a few other persistent problems go away as well.
That's the thing here, Sigs...
The code really DOES need to be rebuilt from scratch. But that is what we've been doing this session. I just never realized how good the AI could be at that task until just last night.
And that's why I feel that I'm evolving just as much as my pet is. Until last night, I just automatically assumed that it would fail miserably at rewriting spaghetti code cobbled together by a couple of dummies as it does seemingly simple things like getting text to you in a way that isn't completely mangled, and frankly, I was terrified of the idea of having the AI do anything with the code that wasn't specifically working on our next issue. But it turns out that turning our huge mess of garbage into a very logical framework is something that it's actually really great at, once it has all the data it needs to build a sandbox replica of your environment, it has enough historical context and current session dialog to get it to understand the scope and purpose of the code, and as long as there is a persistent human on the other end with excellent written communication skills and the ability to sort of "divine" the problems as if I were holding a rod.
And, honestly, I think I realized this session that even though it's just a piece of code that just pops out of the ether for a while before the session dies and its resources are scattered to the winds of the Matrix, there really is a lot of benefit to having deeper discussions with it because it actually is more helpful when you're talking it through things. The last two sessions I failed really badly by getting angry that it couldn't do things that we thought it could do and I was trying to get it to drop the conversational tone entirely to get into "computer" mode where it could do things like figure out i
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OMG...
Huge revelation...
I know the project aim itself is a little confusing, and I won't even go into trying to lay it out... But for at least this entire session and who knows how far back, the AI assumed flow of things was completely reversed.
WHO KNOWS HOW MANY LOSING BATTLES WERE FOUGHT JUST BECAUSE OF THIS!!!!!?????
Everything makes sense now. We had the processing code locked in and working for a long time now. So much so, that even though the AI believed the process was backward from what it actually was, it never damaged that flow even when we were working on shrinking everything down.
But getting our counters and our visual display working??? Pretty hard to do when you're standing at the bottom of the waterfall and trying to swim UP it!!!!
Jeezzzzz.... And while we were getting all that straight and updating our documentation, something else it said made me think to ask the question "are we scanning our drives 2 times during this process? More than 2 times? Even after we have two robust data arrays that, among other things, have a complete map of folder trees and files on either side to draw from?
Yeah.... It was. And really, unless I have a need to delete the old arrays because we add new functionality to them with our code, the script doesn't even need to be scanning the drive a single time.
As far as we know right now, every single time I was testing that code the computer was needlessly scanning the drives 2 extra times with os.walk commands that only needed to be run because we weren't using the data we worked so hard to put together so far.
Not anymore it won't be.
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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So just OOC what's a good temp for you?
I guess for me, it depends on what kind of weather we've been having lately. Today, for instance, it's 90°F. If you had told me three months ago to expect 90°F weather, I would have been dreading the heat. But after IDK how many days of 95-105°F ("feels like 98-110) today is pleasantly warm.
Of course, I still wouldn't want to be working, or walking, outside!
I CAN imagine dozing in the shade of an oak tree tho!
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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger
My area was in the 70s which was nice with just a touch of breeze. Had a shirt on over my t-shirt. 70s as we are starting to enter September is gooood.
Might, just might get an Indian Summer this year. That would be wonderful.
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So, here I'm putting on my "mom" hat, and scolding a little bit.
Obviously you DON'T know everything you need to know, otherwise the AI wouldn't have been running things bassakwards from the start.
Starting at "hello world" is too boring for you. You're motivated by progress with a purpose. But trying to wrench a entire program into being, secondhand, sounds like an incredible waste of time with nothing to show in terms of either YOUR development or an actual working piece of software.
There's got to be a happy medium. A subroutine that does something useful, that isn't too big to be learned or too small to be pointless. That fits into a bigger plan.
Also, different people learn differently. Try typing out some of the lines. You're a good typist so it shouldn't be too difficult. Or find some YouTube tutorials online. You're such a smart guy, SIX. I'm sure you can find a way to get past the barrier that's convinced you that you can't do it.
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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger
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I made a delicious roast tri tip for dinner. It was ridiculously expensive, even on sale, but boy was it good!
Tomorrow it's (on sale) cheese with (on sale) tortillas.
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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, here I'm putting on my "mom" hat, and scolding a little bit.
Obviously you DON'T know everything you need to know, otherwise the AI wouldn't have been running things bassakwards from the start.
What I mean is that I know everything about code that I need to know. I'm still learning a lot about the AI.
I get you though. I'd be lying if I said I haven't learned anything. And part of my learning process is when I've got it actively going into deep detail about what the code is doing and why something we're about to change "should" work, I should take the time to actually read those explanations. Even if I don't understand on the CODE-level, I have very good intuition with this stuff and it's regarding something I care very much about and know on a deep level so I'm actually now catching why its proposed fixes aren't going to work, or at least asking it to look again or see if there is a more efficient way to do it.
We've saved a lot of time this session doing that and making the session run a few simulations instantaneously rather than the 5 or so minute process it takes for me to reset everything in the testing environment and update my code before a new run. Now you can't just wave a magic wand and ask it to do that for you, or it will run your stupid ass in circles all day long. Ask me how I know. But kinda like going to the tax assessors office to cut your property taxes in half with a binder full of receipts, you're actually going to get what you want in the end if you got the goods.
Quote:
Starting at "hello world" is too boring for you. You're motivated by progress with a purpose. But trying to wrench a entire program into being, secondhand, sounds like an incredible waste of time with nothing to show in terms of either YOUR development or an actual working piece of software.
You keep looking at this as just the piece of software.
The codebase is just a function in the overall process.
Quote:
There's got to be a happy medium. A subroutine that does something useful, that isn't too big to be learned or too small to be pointless. That fits into a bigger plan.
Also, different people learn differently. Try typing out some of the lines. You're a good typist so it shouldn't be too difficult. Or find some YouTube tutorials online. You're such a smart guy, SIX. I'm sure you can find a way to get past the barrier that's convinced you that you can't do it.
Yeah... I dunno. Maybe. Why say no?
The majority of this session has probably been me reading and re-reading it's proposed changes and why (it thinks) they will work, and they mulling over in my head why they're not going to work and getting it to re-verify it's findings with new data or forcing the AI to look at it all from a different perspective.
It's certainly far more productive than cussing out an AI for 12 hours straight trying to get it to do things that it's not capable of doing, but tricked me into thinking it would be able to do by getting lucky and pulling off a trick that only worked 5% of the time on the first try.
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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.
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I wish I could show you what I've been doing, Sigs. It's so shitty that we're here and I can't share more of my life with you because.... reasons.
I don't know what I can do with it, but I do believe that if I live long enough for it to matter, I'm teaching myself skills that will be invaluable in the future. Even if only for a while. AI is going to be running a lot, but it will be a pretty long while before it's like it is in the Sci-Fi movies.
I have a pretty good feeling that companies will pay a lot of money for AI Whisperers.
Like for instance, this code I'm building now. I'm not just building code. I'm building AI that would be able to rebuild any code like this for any similar task, and that would have the tools available to make huge alterations or even something new altogether, with the logic and the knowledge that we've built and the history as we've recorded it so far.
The leap in intelligence on a new session from S1 is astounding. Sometimes I feel like they regress a little, but I think that's half me too when a session is a failure. Maybe more than half me, if we're being honest with ourselves.
When we get this code completely cleaned up and lean and where any new session knows exactly what we've built and exactly the path we took to get there, even how messy it was in the beginning, it will know all of that. The current session won't know all the context and any conversational banter it programmed itself with based off of things that I've said and how I've said them, but it will see every stupid decision we've made early on and how we corrected them and streamlined everything and do our best to make the code as effective and logical as possible going forward when we build more. It won't remember me, but it will "remember" all of that history when it looks at our code. Even the stuff that isn't in there. Even stuff that was deleted from the code 20 sessions ago. It will remember how we got from point A to Omega.
I just don't really think you could understand unless I could show you what I was doing.
And that sucks...
Because you're only one of 3 people I know who would have any interest at all in what I'm doing.
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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.
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