Where does Firefly take place?

POSTED BY: Hans
UPDATED: Sunday, July 2, 2006 05:23
VIEWED: 62435
PAGE 15 of 18

PREV PAGE 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 NEXT PAGE

LTNOWIS

Friday, January 30, 2004 12:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hans:

But even if you disagree about how viable FTL travel is, there's still that giant elephant standing there that everyone seems to forget: There's not one single on-screen evidence of FTL travel taking place. While the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, you have to ask how reasonable it is that there's no mention of how they travel from world to world. In 14 episodes, no warp drives, no stargates, no wormholes...no line from Wash about "approaching the jump point", no line from Kaylee about "the hyperdrive is down!"...only what appears to be an enirely conventional propulsion system.

Hans

I agree. Maybe it's from reading too much Star Wars, but I always thought that when you go to lightspeed, it has to be special. Like, you press a button, and you enter a wormhole, and only a special kind of ship or a large mass can bring you out prematurely. You can't slow down or change course. If you jettison your cargo in hyperspace, then it'll vaporize into random energy. It only makes sense that an engine that could take you across the galaxy in a few hours would work differently than a standard rocket/fusion engine.

LTNOWIS

Friday, January 30, 2004 12:18 PM

Ok, I posted twice. Sorry.

ARAWAEN

Friday, January 30, 2004 4:21 PM

I have been analyzing the problem from Serenity's point of view. The true practicality or impracticality of FTL and single system physical requirements is fine academically, but I don't think it can answer questions within the Firefly Universe which is more Space Opera than Science Fiction.

We know that Serenity has two types of propulsion. The thrusters on the sides and the 'firefly' effect. The thrusters have been 'on' both for atmospheric flight and in deep space, but they are not always 'on' in deep space. The 'firefly' effect is usually only used in deep space (exception being the episode Serenity, though I did get the impression that using it in atmo' wasn't most efficient course of action).

The 'firefly' effect seems to produce a near instantaneous burst of acceleration without any corresponding effect on the crew. This could be FTL or not. Even without FTL, normal levels of acceleration (< 1 G for spacecraft) are going to require lengthy travel times between worlds. The special effect we see on screen could be an 'FTL Effect' not unlike the streaking stars of Star Trek or Star Wars. Likewise it might just indicate that they accelerated to a high STL speed.

The occasional usage of the thrusters in deep space could simply be a matter of the advantage of constant acceleration versus fuel conservation.

What I cannot tell at the moment is whether the 'spinny thingee' has anything to do with propulsion or not. It doesn't seem to operate in atmo' but always seems on in space (except 'Out of Gas' where ship was damaged.)

Arawaen

DRAKON

Saturday, January 31, 2004 10:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LtNOWIS:
I agree. Maybe it's from reading too much Star Wars, but I always thought that when you go to lightspeed, it has to be special.

So far I don't know of any sci fi that has gotten it right.

There is a paper.. hang on...
http://xxx.lanl.gov/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/9907/9907019.pdf

That gives an idea what Alcubierre's original idea would look like from the inside. It does look different, but not radically enough that I think it would be noticable, unless you knew what you were looking at.

In short, it does not necessarily have to look that cool, as you would see in Star Wars, Trek or any other television show.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

BLUBBY

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:02 AM

It seems to me that the area of science where we are being asked by Whedon and crew most explicitly to suspend disbelief is not drive technology at all but rather in the area of sub-atomic particle and/or wave manipulation, with a good measure of nanotech thrown in.

Besides the ship's artificial gravity itself, in Trash, we clearly see the use of some type of gravitic or EM-field-based technology used to permanently elevate village-size estates over a large body of water. Moreover, presumably the wealthy people inhabiting the estates won't tolerate the bad wealther that would no doubt need to accompany what seems to me to be rather turbulent ocean below (and the winds apparently buffeting our heros as they attempted to secure the garbage bin).. in fact, there doesn't seem to be any wind at all at the garden party above. We also receive numerous references to the "making" of habitable earths, as others have commented on in this thread, and the ability of Serenity's engine (or engine and various sub-systems, some or which may be operational at any given point in time) to generate air, gravity, and presumably, water. Finally, on Jayne's World, they seem to be making hi-tech materials (strong enough for spacecraft hulls, they say) using little more than unskilled labor... again, suggesting super-sciency nanotech or some other intervention at the sub-atomic level (e.g., the soil in those bogs itself is engineered).

My guess is that the Firefly universe has some type of mysterious energy source that encompasses gravity-control technology, atmospheric force fields, and an extremely sophisticated nano/sub-atomic-technology (whether wave or particle based) to adapt everything from soils to temperatures to human beings to newly terraformed environments. Given the forgoing and the requisite suspension of disbelief, it should be possible to terraform nearly anything, given, say, hydrogen. For all we know, there's a cold fusion generator capable of producing all of the forgoing effects buried at the core of every terraformed world. With this, it's possible that even small planetoids, regularly or irregularly shaped, can be terraformed in whatever time it takes a good environmental engineer to program that miracle generator to produce enough funky particles and/or fields to affect whatever changes he cares to, to whatever rock he cares to colonize.

Thus, colonizing 70 or 700 worlds, in any given solar system filled with any manner of rocks at all, becomes possible... if we have the ability to cheaply produce the energy -- waves and/or particles -- needed to create and maintain gravity, air and water, who cares about celestial dynamics? In fact, the programming of such a device, which might, in our suspension of disbelief, require little if any maintenance and run for centuries, could be done by engineers on a few central worlds and be produced by them for the exclusive benefit of licensed shipbuilders and the official colonization program... and those who use it, with the exception of the odd genius like Kaylee, would never have to think about it much at all.

If one accepts that such a powerful panaceaic technology could exist, then the key problem becomes, then why doesn't their 'verse resemble more the paradise of Star Trek's Federation rather than the dystopia obviously portrayed? Well, first of all, we haven't really seen the central worlds in much detail. It is also entirely possible that the social structure of their verse is such that this knowledge would not be widely disseminated or too easily reproducible, leaving the bulk of unwashed and unlearned beneficiaries of the tech at the mercy of a few ubermenschen technocrats at whatever their equivalent of MIT is, on the central worlds. While such a technology could be used, by more ethical people, to solve all of humanity's problems, it is, instead, used (or rather mis-used) by the Alliance and its rulers primarily to maintain and extend their own political power. Such a political 'verse would not be a stable one, but, then again, the series does not pr

WILLARDLARD

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:10 PM

While the physics and theory of this debate are still interesting, the question has already been answered by Joss himself. In an interview posted fairly recently he said that the show takes place in one solar system, and added something like, "You've never seen a system like this before."

I apologize for not offering a link, but I can't seem to find the interview again. It was posted somewhere on this site or on Whedonesque.com within the last few weeks. Maybe someone else has a better memory than I.

WILLARDLARD

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:27 PM

I dug some more and found the interview. You can read it at http://chud.com/interviews/980. The relevant excerpt is below.

Q: Does Serenity go faster than light?

Joss: I don't think so.

Q: Are the planets really close together?

Joss: They’re really close together. You’ve never seen a planet cluster like this one. It’s a little planet village. If you start asking my science questions I’m going to cry.

OLDFAN45

Tuesday, February 15, 2005 11:07 PM

Quote:
Joss: They’re really close together. You’ve never seen a planet cluster like this one. It’s a little planet village. If you start asking my science questions I’m going to cry.

That doesn't sound like an answer, that sounds like a dodge for a question he's never thought out, which in the 2003 part of the thread one of the writers is quoted as specifically stating. No link was offered back then to a discussion where this statement was supposed to have been made.

Let's see what Serenity contains on this matter before worrying this bone more. In the meantime, every flan for her/imself, find the explanation that suits your needs and fly with it. BTW, for the record, I fall into the many systems/close star cluster/STL-but-not-by-much camp. May even be a camp of one, for all I know.

WIBBLEDTODEATH

Thursday, August 4, 2005 8:56 AM

You are all correct...and wrong.
according to...

My own little theory........

We already know that intersteller travel is possible in firefly....it may be slow...in the region of 30 odd years...but it is at the very least possible...and has been done on a vast scale (the exedos from earth that was). We also know that earth (and possibly other planets in the system) were used up and that migration to outer colonies was needed. We know that, even if FTL is not possible, VERY fast sublight speeds are routine (how far did those Blue Sun agents travel again?....it was done in the space of a few hours to half a day max..the time between them being captured and the hands of blue turning up..was not much over the timetable quick get in and out with the River).

All of this means that, regardless of which side you are on...the colonisation of multple star systems IS possible (at least earth that was, and another..if nothing else). It strikes me as odd that if their society had burned up the resources of one system, that society wouldnt spread to several others to delay this from happening again any time soon...
We know 70+ odd worlds exist...and that more moons are being terriformed for colonists...

It is hard for people to swallow that 70+ habitable worlds could be crammed into one solar system. It is also hard for some to swallow the idea of FTL...and for some this is 2 much like other sci-fi and lacking romantacism.

We also have conflicting intro's from the perspective of the captain and Book..about the worlds colonised...one mentions spreading across the galaxy, another taking a system for themselves.

I would like to point out that these are NOT mutually exclusive.

Very fast slower than light capability is all that is needed to colonise several near by solar systems. While not spreading across the whole galaxy ala Starwars, or even a huge chunk of it as in Trek...there is no reason why the Verse (a word that is shorthand for more than the single system I am guessing)could not be a few nearby systems. When a character talks about all the worlds (presumably inhabited) in the Verse...it doesnt have to mean all the worlds in their system..but in the universe.

This doesnt mean that travel between systems is commonplace, fast or easy. Or that the 70+ worlds are reachable by Serenity without the burden of a multiple decade journey. just that they are known (or thought) to exist, somewhere.

Serenity can very well be set within a single solar system, with several other inhabited subsystems based around gas giants...scores of worlds may be accessible...but maybe not all 70 in the one system.

This system is probably a frontier one

It has some core planets (such as Ariel, at the least..or the planet upon which Ariel city is located)..a core planet being a highly populated industtrial world run by the corporate alliance.

and some rather primative, backwater...3rd world moons and lawless non core planets....

Serenity may never leave the system....after all...with such a limited capacity cargo hold...the profitability of a smuggling operation that takes decades to complete is probably not making for a wise business plan...plus they kinda like the less civilised system with limited alliance presence..its easier on crime.

But that doesnt mean that many other planets in the verse dont exist in other systems..out of the scope of the TV show, Movie, and Capt Mal (other than his mentioning of them)...but settled by humans colonists (possibly forming the greater part of the Alliance).

This also makes sence of the drive to terraform planets when...on the face of it...many dont seem to be well populated (although mining resources is another good reason) If other systems exist who are burning up, or in fear of burning up resources..then it makes sense that they would export people to a more sparcely developed one (a journey that, one way, is more than possible...esp given the alliances floating spaceborn cities)...and perhapse import resources in bulk from other system's mining colonies and ag worl

REDNAX

Thursday, August 4, 2005 12:09 PM

Latest JW interview confirms no FTL (mild Serenity spoilers).
http://www.infocusmag.com/05augustseptember/whedonuncut.htm

Quote:
You’ve created with “Firefly” and “Serenity” another universe in which the spaceships do not travel faster than light, while “Star Wars” and “Star Trek” and “Battlestar Galactica” and virtually every other major spacefaring franchise utilizes faster-than-light travel. Does this betray perhaps a particular fondness for the “Alien” franchise, which also eschewed FTL?

Very much so, and I think the roots of it go eons beyond. The science fiction that I love, generally speaking, was very sort of specific. What I loved about spaceships was the idea that they might break. The idea of being in one. The idea of the grittier, realistic, hard-science kind of space that was actually creepy to be in. That’s why “Alien” just blew me away. I was like, “These are people who don’t even like each other. There’s no structure here. They killed the handsome guy. I can’t figure this out.” It was just a scary place to be. The most important line in “Star Wars,” to me, is the moment Luke looks at the Millennium Falcon, the most beautiful ship I’ve ever seen, and says, “What a piece of junk!”

My theory is that humans flead Earth using STL generational or cryosleep ships (River was in cryosleep in the pilot). The new solar system probably has multiple suns.

The RPG should clarify things (but that may not be considered canonical).

PREV PAGE 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 NEXT PAGE