Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
POSTED BY: captaincrunch
UPDATED: Sunday, September 6, 2026 21:09
VIEWED: 562266
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Quote:
NATO To Draw Up Russia War Plans For First Time Since Cold War
Saturday, May 20, 2023 - 05:10 AM
Authored by Dave DeCamp via AntiWar.com,
NATO is drawing up plans on how to fight a war with Russia for the first time since the Cold War.
According to Reuters, at the upcoming NATO summit in Vilnius this July, alliance leaders will approve thousands of pages of secret military plans that will detail how to respond to a Russian attack.
Wait.
What?
I thought the whole point of NATO was defending against Russia.
You mean it's been a money-sucking bureaucracy for decades?
-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
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Quote:The new plans are based on the many things Russia proved it cannot do. The old NATO plans were based on what Russia falsely claimed it could do. Huge difference between what little Russia actually accomplished in Ukraine and what Russia's blowhards claim it can do.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Wait.
What?
I thought the whole point of NATO was defending against Russia.
You mean it's been a money-sucking bureaucracy for decades?
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Oh, hey SECOND, let me repeat this for you. You seem to have "missed" an important phrase
Quote:
NATO To Draw Up Russia War Plans For First Time Since Cold War
Saturday, May 20, 2023 - 05:10 AM
Authored by Dave DeCamp via AntiWar.com,
NATO is drawing up plans on how to fight a war with Russia for the first time since the Cold War.
According to Reuters, at the upcoming NATO summit in Vilnius this July, alliance leaders will approve thousands of pages of secret military plans that will detail how to respond to a Russian attack.
Wait.
What?
I thought the whole point of NATO was defending against Russia.
You mean it's been a money-sucking bureaucracy for decades?
-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
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BTW, capturing Bakhmut was apparently not in Russian General Staff's plans. According to a number of people, they think the General Staff had planned on maintaining a static, defensive front and simply chewing up whatever Kiev threw at it, tying up a lot of Ukie forces, and diverting them from Kiev's great fall, winter , spring ... summer?? ... offensive.
But Progozhin, they say, wanted a feather in Wagner's cap and made capturing Bakhmut a priority, which would make the source of the apparent munitions dispute between him and the MoD clearer: There was enough to maintain a defensive posture, not enough committed to take the city.
With the capture of Bakhmut, I imagine a great number of plans have been changed, bc Kiev will now be free to commit their remaining forces to a battle of their own choosing along a 1000-mile front. This could be the reason why Russia accelerated their missile/bomb/drone strikes on weapons/munitions/fuel/air defenses all across Ukraine, bc now Kiev can pivot to wherever they choose.
There is one interesting piece of info I heard on Sonar21: There are very few transportation routes into southern Ukraine that can take the weight of multiple tanks, etc. One important one is a bridge from Romania into southern Ukraine. Well, Russia just bombed it a few days ago, making western resupply from that direction (towards Odessa) difficult if not impossible. Does that mean Russia intends to advance towards Odessa? There have been a lot of missile srikes in that area, as well as in Kiev, lately.
Oh, one more comment that I heard that I haven't taken the time to verify. what someone said about tha infamous video that Progozhin made with dead soldiers behind him?
"Those people weren't dead".
Dead soldiers are usually missing important parts... legs, arms, faces, chests... Sometimes there isn't left enough to fill a shopping bag, let alone a body bag. The comment was that they looked remarkably whole and un-wounded. I haven't seen the video myself, but if someone else has, let me know what you think.
-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
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Quote:When did Russia withdraw from Afghanistan in failure? May 15, 1988.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, hey SECOND, let me repeat this for you. You seem to have "missed" an important phraseQuote:
NATO To Draw Up Russia War Plans For First Time Since Cold War
Saturday, May 20, 2023 - 05:10 AM
Authored by Dave DeCamp via AntiWar.com,
NATO is drawing up plans on how to fight a war with Russia for the first time since the Cold War.
According to Reuters, at the upcoming NATO summit in Vilnius this July, alliance leaders will approve thousands of pages of secret military plans that will detail how to respond to a Russian attack.
Wait.
What?
I thought the whole point of NATO was defending against Russia.
You mean it's been a money-sucking bureaucracy for decades?
(December 26, 1991 Soviet Union collapses.)
When did Russia invade Ukraine? February 24, 2022. Russia has provided new data in Ukraine on how well the Russian Army fights and Russia is weaker than in 1988.
Did Russia invade any other countries in an attempt to steal their land between 1988 and 2022? No. And that is why NATO had been using the same old plan since 1988 to defend against Russia invading Europe. I don't expect Russia to admit it failed in Ukraine until the fighting has gone on for as many years as in Afghanistan.
The Soviet Union collapsed because the Afghanistan invasion failed. Expect the same to happen if Russia fails to conquer Ukraine.
The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 was one of the biggest historic events of the 20th century. Much like the Roman Empire, the USSR breakdown was due to an aggregate of factors, some internal, and some foreign. Unlike the Roman Empire, the Soviet Empire collapsed suddenly. Among the reasons for the fall of the Union, the invasion of Afghanistan was one of the poorest decisions that were made by the Soviet government.
Why the Soviet Union Invaded Afghanistan
https://www.history.com/news/1979-soviet-invasion-afghanistan
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:When did Russia withdraw from Afghanistan in failure? May 15, 1988.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, hey SECOND, let me repeat this for you. You seem to have "missed" an important phraseQuote:
NATO To Draw Up Russia War Plans For First Time Since Cold War
Saturday, May 20, 2023 - 05:10 AM
Authored by Dave DeCamp via AntiWar.com,
NATO is drawing up plans on how to fight a war with Russia for the first time since the Cold War.
According to Reuters, at the upcoming NATO summit in Vilnius this July, alliance leaders will approve thousands of pages of secret military plans that will detail how to respond to a Russian attack.
Wait.
What?
I thought the whole point of NATO was defending against Russia.
You mean it's been a money-sucking bureaucracy for decades?
(December 26, 1991 Soviet Union collapses.)
When did Russia invade Ukraine? February 24, 2022. Russia has provided new data in Ukraine on how well the Russian Army fights and Russia is weaker than in 1988.
Did Russia invade any other countries in an attempt to steal their land between 1988 and 2022? No.
Oh, so now you contradict your previous narrative of "Russia the ravening imperialist"?
Hahaha!
Sooner or later, you make my arguments for me.
You've got scrambled eggs in there, SECOND!
And everything you post is shit.
-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
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Quote:North Korea is always raging that South Korea and the US are oppressing it but at least North Korea is not so stupid as to invade South Korea. Russia does the same old act as North Korea but Russia proved itself much stupider by actually invading the country to the south of it.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, so now you contradict your previous narrative of "Russia the ravening imperialist"?
Hahaha!
Sooner or later, you make my arguments for me.
You've got scrambled eggs in there, SECOND!
And everything you post is shit.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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More scrambled brains from SECOND!
Hey SECOND, how in god's name do you imagine that anything you post makes a bit of sense to ... anyone?
-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
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Yaroslav Trofimov @yarotrof
The news today is not that Prigozhin claims to control 100% of Bakhmut, up from 98% a week ago. The news is that a depleted Wagner will decamp in a few days, leaving the regular Russian army to deal with a Ukrainian counteroffensive on the flanks and possibly inside the city.
9:16 AM · May 20, 2023
https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1659925947007549441
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Signym, short answers you misunderstand. Long answers you don't read. As soon as you read the 3 words "Russia's imperial delusions" you will stop because -- let me make up an explanation Russians actually use -- Russia has no Imperial Ambitions. Russia is only protecting itself from the machinations of NATO and the Ukrainian Jewish Nazi Zelenskyy. This is how Russia can go on and on imagining it is the sad victim persecuted by evil next-door neighbors rather than Russia is the evil next door to Western Europe.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
More scrambled brains from SECOND!
Hey SECOND, how in god's name do you imagine that anything you post makes a bit of sense to ... anyone?
Fiona Hill: "The world is feeding Russia's imperial delusions"
by Rieke Havertz, Martin Klingst, Jacobia Dahm
https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2023-05/fiona-hill-ukraine-war-rus
sia-europe
Crimea is no longer a bargaining chip, says Russia expert Fiona Hill. A conversation about Putin's transfiguration of history, Europe's mistakes and new world orders.
Fiona Hill is a Russia expert at the Brookings Institution in Washington. She served as security advisor under U.S. Presidents George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Donald Trump. She's currently a Fellow of the Robert Bosch Academy. We met her in Berlin.
ZEIT ONLINE: In his recent speech, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that Russia feels encircled by NATO and the West. During your time as an adviser to President George W. Bush, he argued in favor of NATO membership for Ukraine in 2008, and you were against it. Do you now have any second thoughts about that position?
Fiona Hill: No, because in the context of 2008, nobody had been thinking through the implications of offering Ukraine a NATO Membership Action Plan. This plan has no immediate effects. It doesn’t involve equipping a military to be able to fend off an attack the next day. And it was always obvious that NATO’s enlargement to Ukraine and to Georgia was a provocation for Putin. So we should have been doing something to address this security dilemma all along – in 2008, but also earlier, especially after 2004 and the big enlargement to Eastern European countries and the Baltic states of both NATO and the European Union. When this happened, we immediately left all the other neighboring countries, including Ukraine, in a strategic gray zone. The debates that we're having now in NATO about how to defend Ukraine and countries like Moldova and how to create security guarantees for them - we should have been having them on the very day after this massive enlargement of NATO.
ZEIT ONLINE: What could such security guarantees have looked like?
Hill: After its Winter War with the Soviet Union in 1939, Finland was always battle ready and well equipped to defend itself, not even seeking NATO membership until recently. In terms of second thoughts today, I would have sent the Finns around Europe to give advice to all other non-NATO European militaries about how they needed to posture themselves for a full-on defense and for any kind of eventuality. The biggest mistake we made was just thinking about NATO itself as the fortress and that everybody outside was left to their own devices. The whole idea that NATO’s Membership Action Plan, or even actual membership, would be an instant magic defensive shield was false. It was based on a whole set of erroneous assumptions, because it was obvious to anyone looking at the European security structures in this time frame that Putin was already moving in a revanchist direction and putting all kinds of pressure on neighboring countries.
The heart of all this was the persistence of imperial thinking from the tsarist and Soviet eras, wanting to exert political, economic and security influence over Europe. I still believe that NATO was not the proximate cause of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. But what NATO did for countries was create other options and ways to avoid or deal with this pressure. And Putin didn'
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