The multipolar world

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 18, 2024 00:50
VIEWED: 1518
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SIGNYM

Saturday, March 25, 2023 3:00 AM

SECOND, apparently you overlooked some of America's major advantages pre- and during WWII, one of which was easy oil, and another was continent-sized resources (coal, iron,copper etc)
Germany lacked oil and other critical resources, Japan lacked... well, everything.

Engaging in alternate history, as you do, doesn't change it.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

SECOND

Saturday, March 25, 2023 3:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, apparently you overlooked some of America's major advantages pre- and during WWII, one of which was easy oil, and another was continent-sized resources (coal, iron,copper etc)
Germany lacked oil and other critical resources, Japan lacked... well, everything.

Engaging in alternate history, as you do, doesn't change it.

Does that mean Japan is NOT an industrial power, because "Japan lacked... well, everything"? Meanwhile, Venezuela has all resources Japan lacks, but Venezuela is not an industrial power. It is impoverished. The difference is that the Japanese are very unlike Venezuelans. The people make the difference, not what minerals are in the ground.

Country comparison Japan vs Venezuela
https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/japan/venezuela
GDP per capita $39,246 Japan / $3,423 Venezuela

The way the Venezuelan government sees it is that the US is holding them down. Funny that Japan doesn't see that the US is holding down Japan. I wonder what is going on in Venezuela? I know! Venezuela is Russia's most important trading and military ally in Latin America. Thinking like Russians is what is killing Venezuelans' prosperity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Venezuela_relations

If it was all about minerals, the poorest country in Europe would be Switzerland, known only for its goat cheese. But the last time I was there, they were more prosperous than anywhere else I have been. Check out Switzerland compared to the world:
GDP (nominal) per Capita
https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-per-capita/
Switzerland wasn't always rich, despite always being in the exact same spot. The Swiss know as a hard fact that their prosperity depends on their people, not on real estate and minerals buried underground. Americans should learn that, but I don't think they will.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Saturday, March 25, 2023 4:18 AM

If Japan were to be embargoed against any significant resource it would collapse like a house of cards. It has a tremendous industry but no natural resources. It can offer the world one thing: skilled, efficient labor. But it depends on raw material imports (oil, gas, steel, chemicals etc) so that it can export finished products to the world. Did you knowthat the USA embargoed significant raw resources destined for Japan pre-WWII, and that was one of the causes of Japan going to war?

Quote:
The Embargoes That Blocked Japanese Expansion and Led to War
...
But Japan’s breathtaking rise had two important consequences, one emotional and the other practical. Japanese leaders resented Western nations’ patronizing of the “clever” Japanese. More importantly, the rapid industrialization revealed a crucial weakness affecting national growth and security: Japan was a heavily populated country barely capable of feeding itself and bereft of natural resources vital for industry. Maintaining the status quo of importing from the West the raw materials and commodities it needed would lock Japan into a dependent role with the United States and other Western nations rich in foodstuffs and natural resources. To ultranationalists who had risen to power in the 1930s such a position of inferiority was intolerable. In addition to military parity, they sought to replace Western presence in the Pacific Rim with the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, a vaguely defined economic military defense bloc dominated by Japan.

... America, first under President Herbert Hoover and then Franklin D. Roosevelt initially responded [to Japan's occupation of northern China] with diplomatic protests. When they failed to curb Japanese aggression, Roosevelt upped the ante. In 1938, the State Department advised banks at home and abroad not to extend credit to Japanese businesses. In 1939, the United States terminated the 1911 commercial treaty between the United States and Japan. This led to an American embargo initially of airplanes, parts, machine tools, and aviation gasoline. The embargo was expanded in 1940 to include oil, iron and steel scrap, and other commodities. Sharing America’s concerns, Great Britain and the Netherlands joined in the economic embargo.

Japanese leaders had already done the math, and the numbers were ugly. If the situation remained unchanged, Japan faced economic ruin within two years.

https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/the-embargoes-that-blocked
-japanese-expansion-and-led-to-war/

Japan's essential weakness remains unchanged. In order to maintain its position as an industrial society with a hgh standard of living, it depends on foreign raw resources and foreign markets. It needs to be integrated in a larger economic system in order t survive.
Shit. SECOND, you pretend to be so smart but you don't even have grade-schooler's knowledge of world geograph.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

THG

Saturday, March 25, 2023 5:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

If Japan were to be embargoed against any significant resource it would collapse like a house of cards. It has a tremendous industry but no natural resources. It can offer the world one thing: skilled, efficient labor. But it depends on raw material imports (oil, gas, steel, chemicals etc) so that it can export finished products to the world. Did you knowthat the USA embargoed significant raw resources destined for Japan pre-WWII, and that was one of the causes of Japan going to war?

Quote:
The Embargoes That Blocked Japanese Expansion and Led to War
...
But Japan’s breathtaking rise had two important consequences, one emotional and the other practical. Japanese leaders resented Western nations’ patronizing of the “clever” Japanese. More importantly, the rapid industrialization revealed a crucial weakness affecting national growth and security: Japan was a heavily populated country barely capable of feeding itself and bereft of natural resources vital for industry. Maintaining the status quo of importing from the West the raw materials and commodities it needed would lock Japan into a dependent role with the United States and other Western nations rich in foodstuffs and natural resources. To ultranationalists who had risen to power in the 1930s such a position of inferiority was intolerable. In addition to military parity, they sought to replace Western presence in the Pacific Rim with the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, a vaguely defined economic military defense bloc dominated by Japan.

... America, first under President Herbert Hoover and then Franklin D. Roosevelt initially responded [to Japan's occupation of northern China] with diplomatic protests. When they failed to curb Japanese aggression, Roosevelt upped the ante. In 1938, the State Department advised banks at home and abroad not to extend credit to Japanese businesses. In 1939, the United States terminated the 1911 commercial treaty between the United States and Japan. This led to an American embargo initially of airplanes, parts, machine tools, and aviation gasoline. The embargo was expanded in 1940 to include oil, iron and steel scrap, and other commodities. Sharing America’s concerns, Great Britain and the Netherlands joined in the economic embargo.

Japanese leaders had already done the math, and the numbers were ugly. If the situation remained unchanged, Japan faced economic ruin within two years.

https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/the-embargoes-that-blocked
-japanese-expansion-and-led-to-war/

Japan's essential weakness remains unchanged. In order to maintain its position as an industrial society with a hgh standard of living, it depends on foreign raw resources and foreign markets. It needs to be integrated in a larger economic system in order t survive.
Shit. SECOND, you pretend to be so smart but you don't even have grade-schooler's knowledge of world geography.

T

Why Japan's Military is Gladly Getting Ready for War

SIGNYM

Saturday, March 25, 2023 6:44 AM

Japan has invaded China many times. Not only that, it's stuck to western markets, so it's not like it has much choice.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, March 25, 2023 7:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, apparently you overlooked some of America's major advantages pre- and during WWII, one of which was easy oil, and another was continent-sized resources (coal, iron,copper etc)
Germany lacked oil and other critical resources, Japan lacked... well, everything.

Engaging in alternate history, as you do, doesn't change it.
Does that mean Japan is NOT an industrial power, because "Japan lacked... well, everything"? Meanwhile, Venezuela has all resources Japan lacks, but Venezuela is not an industrial power. It is impoverished. The difference is that the Japanese are very unlike Venezuelans. The people make the difference, not what minerals are in the ground.

Country comparison Japan vs Venezuela
https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/japan/venezuela
GDP per capita $39,246 Japan / $3,423 Venezuela

The way the Venezuelan government sees it is that the US is holding them down. Funny that Japan doesn't see that the US is holding down Japan. I wonder what is going on in Venezuela? I know! Venezuela is Russia's most important trading and military ally in Latin America. Thinking like Russians is what is killing Venezuelans' prosperity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Venezuela_relations

If it was all about minerals, the poorest country in Europe would be Switzerland, known only for its goat cheese. But the last time I was there, they were more prosperous than anywhere else I have been. Check out Switzerland compared to the world:
GDP (nominal) per Capita
https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/gdp-per-capita/
Switzerland wasn't always rich, despite always being in the exact same spot. The Swiss know as a hard fact that their prosperity depends on their people, not on real estate and minerals buried underground. Americans should learn that, but I don't think they will.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

This entire post is hilarious considering it comes from a Communist.

--------------------------------------------------

Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

SECOND

Saturday, March 25, 2023 6:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If Japan were to be embargoed against any significant resource it would collapse like a house of cards. It has a tremendous industry but no natural resources. It can offer the world one thing: skilled, efficient labor. But it depends on raw material imports (oil, gas, steel, chemicals etc) so that it can export finished products to the world. Did you knowthat the USA embargoed significant raw resources destined for Japan pre-WWII, and that was one of the causes of Japan going to war?

Quote:
The Embargoes That Blocked Japanese Expansion and Led to War
...
But Japan’s breathtaking rise had two important consequences, one emotional and the other practical. Japanese leaders resented Western nations’ patronizing of the “clever” Japanese. More importantly, the rapid industrialization revealed a crucial weakness affecting national growth and security: Japan was a heavily populated country barely capable of feeding itself and bereft of natural resources vital for industry. Maintaining the status quo of importing from the West the raw materials and commodities it needed would lock Japan into a dependent role with the United States and other Western nations rich in foodstuffs and natural resources. To ultranationalists who had risen to power in the 1930s such a position of inferiority was intolerable. In addition to military parity, they sought to replace Western presence in the Pacific Rim with the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, a vaguely defined economic military defense bloc dominated by Japan.

... America, first under President Herbert Hoover and then Franklin D. Roosevelt initially responded [to Japan's occupation of northern China] with diplomatic protests. When they failed to curb Japanese aggression, Roosevelt upped the ante. In 1938, the State Department advised banks at home and abroad not to extend credit to Japanese businesses. In 1939, the United States terminated the 1911 commercial treaty between the United States and Japan. This led to an American embargo initially of airplanes, parts, machine tools, and aviation gasoline. The embargo was expanded in 1940 to include oil, iron and steel scrap, and other commodities. Sharing America’s concerns, Great Britain and the Netherlands joined in the economic embargo.

Japanese leaders had already done the math, and the numbers were ugly. If the situation remained unchanged, Japan faced economic ruin within two years.

https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/the-embargoes-that-blocked
-japanese-expansion-and-led-to-war/

Japan's essential weakness remains unchanged. In order to maintain its position as an industrial society with a hgh standard of living, it depends on foreign raw resources and foreign markets. It needs to be integrated in a larger economic system in order t survive.
Shit. SECOND, you pretend to be so smart but you don't even have grade-schooler's knowledge of world geograph.

Signym, you didn't pay any attention to Switzerland. Instead, Japan got all your words. Switzerland is another very rich industrial country that depends on imports to keep its industries running but won't be joining the Russia/China multipolar world. Does that mean that Switzerland would be better if it returned to the days of Heidi, if you are familiar with that Shirley Temple movie? Heidi (1937 film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidi

Heidi days were a Switzerland where the biggest businesses were wooden clocks and goat cheese. The Swiss have come a long way in the years between the book Heidi, the movie Heidi (1937) and 2023.

The Japanese have also evolved in the 78 years between WWII and 2023. Both countries are better because they nowadays do extensive trade with the rest of the world for food and fuel. Neither will be joining the Russia/China multipolar world where disagreements end, in the case of Russia, with 65 million politically motivated

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, March 25, 2023 8:17 PM

Switzerland is fine because it keeps all the rich people's money worldwide off the books, illegally, but the people in control like it that way.

But they've let in all the Muslims that rape their little girls, so let's put a pin in that and talk about how good Switzerland is doing 20 years from now, mkay?

--------------------------------------------------

Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.

SIGNYM

Saturday, March 25, 2023 10:11 PM

Quote:
Writing for Responsible Statecraft, Turse said since 2008, US-trained soldiers in Africa have "attempted at least nine coups (and succeeded in at least eight) across five West African countries, including Burkina Faso (three times), Guinea, Mali (three times), Mauritania, and the Gambia."

https://news.antiwar.com/2023/03/23/africom-says-african-coup-leaders-
share-core-values-with-us-military/

It's shit like this that gives America a bad name and conjures up blowback.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger

THG

Saturday, March 25, 2023 11:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:
Writing for Responsible Statecraft, Turse said since 2008, US-trained soldiers in Africa have "attempted at least nine coups (and succeeded in at least eight) across five West African countries, including Burkina Faso (three times), Guinea, Mali (three times), Mauritania, and the Gambia."

https://news.antiwar.com/2023/03/23/africom-says-african-coup-leaders-
share-core-values-with-us-military/

It's shit like this that gives America a bad name and conjures up blowback.

Your source is little more than Russian propaganda. Do you know how I can tell? While it talks about Russia missing weapon sale deadlines, it says nothing about what Russia is doing in and too Ukraine.

You cannot be an Anti-War publication and not be covering that. Sorry comrade...

T

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