Assessing facts, evidence and accountability - Ukraine v. Russia
POSTED BY: captaincrunch
UPDATED: Thursday, November 24, 2022 23:14
VIEWED: 4884
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SIG: you said the reporting U. v R. was fact free - Which ones do you consider false and why?
1. - Putin misjudged how his invasion would only unite "Ukies" and motivate them to fight back and embarras the Russian *army.
2. - Putin couldn't take Kyiv in 7 days despite his (anemic, train wreck) of a bull rush to do so. If it was a feint it was the most costly, dumbest feint in military history. In fact, ANY attempt to explain it as a "plan" makes it look even worse. "He meant to do that??"
3. - Russian military used insecure communications - "Hello, Dimitri? I am sitting here with the Z 48 battalion waiting for you... I am at the following coordinates..." boom.
4. - Putin keeps losing generals.
5. - Putin has united the West and the EU and NATO.
6. - Putin completely misjudged Finland and Sweden. Both are applying to join NATO, Putin's nightmare.
7. - Putin's own "G7" he has only one ally, Belarus, who have yet to join the fight. No ally really.
8. - Putin completely misjudged how many companies would leave Russia. ANY attempt to say that it was a plan makes it look even worse.
9. - Russian army failed to use proper logistics. 40 mile traffic jam/ cluster-fck.
10. - Russia loses their Prized ship to a country without a nvy.
11. - Putin has motivated many of the most educated Russians to leave the country - brain drain just like Stalin.
12. - Putin has caused long term damage to Russia's economy
13. - Putin has caused long term damage to Russia's world standing.
14. - Putin miscalculated how many young Russian soldiers would die.
15. - Russia failed to take out Ukraine air defense system.
16. - Putin has motivated some of Russia's largest oil and gas customers to find alternative suppliers, and - maybe most significantly - to accelerate their alternative energy programs (thanks Putin!).
17. - Putin is even losing the spin war. Except of course with his own state run tv brain washed and threatened citizens who face jail time for speaking the Truth.
18. - Putin misjudges just how much Russia is hated around the globe.
19. - Russian army failed to prepare their troops for what their real "operation" was.
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T
Mass graves and agriculture destruction.
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Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
SIG: you said the reporting U. v R. was fact free - Which ones do you consider false and why?
NO. I said that the ASSUMPTION that Russia was "losing so much military equipment" was fact-free, because you haven't been able to quantify HOW MUCH military equipment has been lost. I must have asked that question over a dozen times. You couldn't have missed them!
Why don't you ask your question with a less disingenuous intro and I'll answer it. Try something simple like:
"Which statements do you feel are inaccurate, and why?"
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Quote:Maybe you just don't understand the practice of logically starting with the conclusions.
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:NO. I said that the ASSUMPTION that Russia was "losing so much military equipment" was fact-free, because you haven't been able to quantify HOW MUCH military equipment has been lost. I must have asked that question over a dozen times. You couldn't have missed them!
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
SIG: you said the reporting U. v R. was fact free - Which ones do you consider false and why?
Why don't you ask your question with a less disingenuous intro and I'll answer it. Try something simple like:
"Which statements do you feel are inaccurate, and why?"
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I understand starting with conclusions. But the question is asking about something that may not even exist. "Why is Russia losing SO MUCH military equipment?" is an invalid question bc it ASSUMES that Russia is losing "so much" military equipment to begin with.
"When did you stop beating your girlfriend?" is a similar invalid question bc it presupposes that you were beating your gf to begin with.
I'd be happy to address those 19 statements, but not on the basis of answering a question I don't even accept.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Assessing facts, evidence and accountability - Ukraine v. Russia
You wouldn't know a fact if it bent you over and rawdawged ya.
--------------------------------------------------
Me: "Remember Covid?"
Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"
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Quote:
Zelensky Says If Ukraine Falls, American Lives Will Be At Risk
...there will be a domino effect ...
Oh no!!! The dreaded "domino effect!!"
BWAHAHAHAHA!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
SIG: you said the reporting U. v R. was fact free - Which ones do you consider false and why?
NO. I said that the ASSUMPTION that Russia was "losing so much military equipment" was fact-free, because you haven't been able to quantify HOW MUCH military equipment has been lost. I must have asked that question over a dozen times. You couldn't have missed them!
Why don't you ask your question with a less disingenuous intro and I'll answer it. Try something simple like:
"Which statements do you feel are inaccurate, and why?"
S: "Which statements do you feel are inaccurate, and why?"
C: "Which ones do you consider false and why?"
There's a difference?
Choose whichever one you want - you're just stalling. No matter, I got lots of time.
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Quote:
captaincrunch:
SIG: you said the reporting U. v R. was fact free - Which ones do you consider false and why?
NO. I said that the ASSUMPTION that Russia was "losing so much military equipment" was fact-free, because you haven't been able to quantify HOW MUCH military equipment has been lost. I must have asked that question over a dozen times. You couldn't have missed them!
Why don't you ask your question with a less disingenuous intro and I'll answer it. Try something simple like:
"Which statements do you feel are inaccurate, and why?"
CAPON: S: "Which statements do you feel are inaccurate, and why?"
C: "Which ones do you consider false and why?"
There's a difference?
Choose whichever one you want - you're just stalling. No matter, I got lots of time.
Surely you can't be a dumb as you pretend. It was the
Quote:(where you misrepresentd my POV, as usual) and the
SIG: you said the reporting U. v R. was fact free
Quote:(n invalid question) that I objected to.
Why is Russia losing so much military equipment?
But since you managed to stoop to asking a simple question without tagging on the pejorative intros, I'll address your 19 points.... when I have time. Right now, I'm busy. Thanks for the rephrase.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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C: you said the reporting U. v R. was fact free…
Sig: NO. I said that the ASSUMPTION that Russia was "losing so much military equipment" was fact-free, because you haven't been able to quantify HOW MUCH military equipment has been lost.”
C: Wull gee, you responded to JSF about U v R:
JSF :There needs to be a FACTS thread on Russia Invading Ukraine.
SIG: The whole topic appears to be a fact-free zone.
C: so, nope. Memory fail
S: Right now, I'm busy.
C: just more stalling.
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Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
SIG: you said the reporting U. v R. was fact free - Which ones do you consider false and why?
1. - Putin misjudged how his invasion would only unite "Ukies" and motivate them to fight back and embarras the Russian *army.
It's not "Putin" that judges these things but his spies and analysts ("intelligence").
There was only one example of probable misjudgement and that was in the initial assault on Antonov Airport (17 miles from Kiev) by elite paratroopers, who weren't able to hold the airport. Aside from one obvious hiccup, I don't know how you could know what the Security Council misjudged, since you don't know what their plan was to begin with.
What some analyst say is that Russia is attempting to "go soft", not bomb Ukraine to smithereens, which accounts for their reliance on ground troops.
Quote:It is widely acknowledged that the number of troops committed (40,000?) would never be able to take a spread-out city of 3 million people if Kiev's troops were committed to street to street fighting. Clearly there was some other plan at work. I think the plan was to take and control the administrative centers (Rada, communications etc) with spec ops, but that depended on taking and holding Antonov Airport. Why they didn't go for Kiev Intl I don't know.
;2. - Putin couldn't take Kyiv in 7 days despite his (anemic, train wreck) of a bull rush to do so. If it was a feint it was the most costly, dumbest feint in military history. In fact, ANY attempt to explain it as a "plan" makes it look even worse. "He meant to do that??"
Once the airport operation failed, it looks like they attempted to scare the leadership with a show of force, which also screwed up. Curiously, the 40-mile convoy was never destroyed by Kiev, according to a Kiev -friendly analysis. (I have that bookmarked on another device which I will post later). Sounds like a screwup on Kiev's part.
Once the initial assault failed, it looked like Russian forces attempted to retrieve the situation by turning it into a feint. That whole operation is closed in mystery and subject to multiple interpretations but it looks like the original onjective(s) - altho not a blitzkreig "invasion" of Kiev- failed. whatever it was. It looked pretty scrambly for a while.
Quote:There is no evidence that this happened besides Kiev's say-so. You can see the secure comms antennas on Russian equipment, and soldiers are not permitted cellphones. Evidenced by the lack of Russian videos. Also, the way EU cellphones are secured, you can't just steal/grab one from someone else. If this happened it is RARE. I already addressed this.
3. - Russian military used insecure communications - "Hello, Dimitri? I am sitting here with the Z 48 battalion waiting for you... I am at the following coordinates..." boom.
Quote:And...? Unlike the American military, commanding officers are on the front line.
4. - Putin keeps losing generals.
Quote:Er, no. EU is NOT united on the sanctions:. The resistance to "gas for rubles" has fallen apart and the oil embargo drive has stalled. Also, while I see nations willing to give Ukraine a lot of old junk equipment, I don't see a big drive to support Ukraine militarily. Poland is the exception.
5. - Putin has united the West and the EU and NATO.
Quote:NATO misjudged Turkey, which is threatening to block their accession. Now that the Finnish PM realizes that she just painted a giant bullseye on Finland for no result, Finland is busy backtracking by promising no nuclear NATO weapons. Russia isn't taking those promises seriously and has cut off gas (for non-payment) and electricity.
6. - Putin completely misjudged Finland and Sweden. Both are applying to join NATO, Putin's nightmare.
Quote:
7. - Putin's own "G7" he has only one ally, Belarus, who have yet to join the fight. No ally reNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Signym, you are writing falsehoods about refineries switching from heavy to lighter crude. There are many, many articles explaining your falsehoods: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+hard+is+it+to+switch+a+refinery+fr
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:EU nations have looked to various mideast and African alternates and even Venezuela (!) for alternate supplies but without much success. One of the problems with oil and gas = especially oil= is that it's not fungible/interchangeable. Most people don't realize that refineries are custom built, reflecting the type of crude to be processed and the technology of the day. MANY refineries are geared to handle heavy crude ... oil which is higher in carbon and often higher in sulfur, with larger oil molecules. Harder to process, needing hydrotreatig/hydrocracking and different catalysts for catalytic cracking but MUCH cheaper to buy. Since the molecules are larger, you can get more diesel out of heavy crude than out of a light crude which is where those refineries take their profit. Russia, like Venezuela, exports a heavy crude.
16. - Putin has motivated some of Russia's largest oil and gas customers to Mstrike> find LOOK FOR alternative suppliers, and - maybe most significantly - to accelerate their alternative energy programs (thanks Putin!).
Anyway, no alternatives of the scale necessary have been found, which is why the gas-for-rubles payment system is being conceded and why the oil embargo cant get off the ground.
om+heavy+crude+to+light
Signym, the other falsehood you are spreading is the reason why there is no EU oil embargo of Russia: The real reason is because Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who is considered Russian President Vladimir Putin's closest EU ally, is opposed to the oil embargo.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/hungary-proposes-removi
ng-russian-oil-embargo-eu-agenda-84961904
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Nobody cares.
--------------------------------------------------
Me: "Remember Covid?"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
SIG: you said the reporting U. v R. was fact free - Which ones do you consider false and why?
1. - Putin misjudged how his invasion would only unite "Ukies" and motivate them to fight back and embarras the Russian *army.
It's not "Putin" that judges these things but his spies and analysts ("intelligence").
There was only one example of probable misjudgement and that was in the initial assault on Antonov Airport (17 miles from Kiev) by elite paratroopers, who weren't able to hold the airport. Aside from one obvious hiccup, I don't know how you could know what the Security Council misjudged, since you don't know what their plan was to begin with.
What some analyst say is that Russia is attempting to "go soft", not bomb Ukraine to smithereens, which accounts for their reliance on ground troops.Quote:It is widely acknowledged that the number of troops committed (40,000?) would never be able to take a spread-out city of 3 million people if Kiev's troops were committed to street to street fighting. Clearly there was some other plan at work. I think the plan was to take and control the administrative centers (Rada, communications etc) with spec ops, but that depended on taking and holding Antonov Airport. Why they didn't go for Kiev Intl I don't know.
;2. - Putin couldn't take Kyiv in 7 days despite his (anemic, train wreck) of a bull rush to do so. If it was a feint it was the most costly, dumbest feint in military history. In fact, ANY attempt to explain it as a "plan" makes it look even worse. "He meant to do that??"
Once the airport operation failed, it looks like they attempted to scare the leadership with a show of force, which also screwed up. Curiously, the 40-mile convoy was never destroyed by Kiev, according to a Kiev -friendly analysis. (I have that bookmarked on another device which I will post later). Sounds like a screwup on Kiev's part.
Once the initial assault failed, it looked like Russian forces attempted to retrieve the situation by turning it into a feint. That whole operation is closed in mystery and subject to multiple interpretations but it looks like the original onjective(s) - altho not a blitzkreig "invasion" of Kiev- failed. [god bless - some rational simple observation - thx} whatever it was. It looked pretty scrambly for a while.Quote:There is no evidence that this happened besides Kiev's say-so. You can see the secure comms antennas on Russian equipment, and soldiers are not permitted cellphones. Evidenced by the lack of Russian videos. Also, the way EU cellphones are secured, you can't just steal/grab one from someone else. If this happened it is RARE. I already addressed this.
3. - Russian military used insecure communications - "Hello, Dimitri? I am sitting here with the Z 48 battalion waiting for you... I am at the following coordinates..." boom.Quote:And...? Unlike the American military, commanding officers are on the front line.
4. - Putin keeps losing generals.Quote:Er, no. EU is NOT united on the sanctions:. The resistance to "gas for rubles" has fallen apart and the oil embargo drive has stalled. Also, while I see nations willing to give Ukraine a lot of old junk equipment, I don't see a big drive to support Ukraine militarily. Poland is the exception.
5. - Putin has united the West and the EU and NATO.Quote:NATO misjudged Turkey, which is threatening to block their accession. Now that the Finnish PM realizes that she just painted a giant bullseye on Finland for no result, Finland is busy backtracking by promising no nuclear NATO weapons. Russia isn't taking those promises seriously and has cut off gas (for non-payment) and electricity.
6. - Putin completely misjudged Finland and Sweden. Both are applying to join NATO, Putin's nightmare.Quote:
7. - Putin'sNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:This isn't unique to Signym. There so many people who fabricate new realities as fast as they can type and/or talk. They are fictional story tellers, but they are paid for what they do as salesmen, propagandists, fantasy/science fiction screenplay writers, politicians, TV Evangelical Ministers, etc.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Goddamn Siggy. I knew you were off your nut, but your willingness to just float any ole thing, or any wild guess as proof of something - no cites, no evidence, just biased speculation from unknown sources - is, impressive.
I have to ask again, why do you bother? You just make your Russian devotion stand out even further.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_evangelists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Osteen
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:This isn't unique to Signym. There so many people who fabricate new realities as fast as they can type and/or talk. They are fictional story tellers, but they are paid for what they do as salesmen, propagandists, fantasy/science fiction screenplay writers, politicians, TV Evangelical Ministers, etc.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Goddamn Siggy. I knew you were off your nut, but your willingness to just float any ole thing, or any wild guess as proof of something - no cites, no evidence, just biased speculation from unknown sources - is, impressive.
I have to ask again, why do you bother? You just make your Russian devotion stand out even further.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_evangelists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Osteen
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
Says the guy who lies about literally everything.
Get fucked, Second.
Speaking of Fan-Fic, here's a great one I archived for you.
Biden*'s Ministry of Truth might not be interested in it, but Trump's will.
https://archive.ph/OaT3U
SPOILER ALERT: The Ministry of Truth was not abandoned and will be working in the shadows for the rest of our days and long after we're gone.
--------------------------------------------------
Me: "Remember Covid?"
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:This isn't unique to Signym. There so many people who fabricate new realities as fast as they can type and/or talk. They are fictional story tellers, but they are paid for what they do as salesmen, propagandists, fantasy/science fiction screenplay writers, politicians, TV Evangelical Ministers, etc.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Goddamn Siggy. I knew you were off your nut, but your willingness to just float any ole thing, or any wild guess as proof of something - no cites, no evidence, just biased speculation from unknown sources - is, impressive.
I have to ask again, why do you bother? You just make your Russian devotion stand out even further.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_evangelists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Osteen
Trying to understand brains that work that way is fascinating and frustrating and I guess in the end, pretty pointless. I can't imagine living in a world like that. As someone once said: "There, right there. I'm pointing right at it."
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Quote:You posted 19 statements with nohing to back them up. YOUR ability to post any ole thing that is put in your head is impressive. I answered the way you posted. Unlike you, I have specific sources for my statements (when I post I THINK it is solely what I think, otherwise there are sources) but I wasn't going to spend a fuck-ton of time on this.
CA{OMN: Goddamn Siggy. I knew you were off your nut, but your willingness to just float any ole thing, or any wild guess as proof of something - no cites, no evidence, just biased speculation from unknown sources - is, impressive.
Quote:
I ask again, why do you bother?
Huh??? You pestered me over and over again to answer your quesion. And NOW you ask why I bothered? ANYONE can see "why I bothered"!
But THANKS for demonstrating (again) what a liar you are.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Keep talking about stupid bullshit nobody cares about, Cap'n, and I'll just sit back and watch while Democrats destroy themselves.
--------------------------------------------------
Me: "Remember Covid?"
Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"
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Quote:No kidding. The Biden* policies are trainwrecks and everybody knows it's the DNC's fault.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Keep talking about stupid bullshit nobody cares about, Cap'n, and I'll just sit back and watch while Democrats destroy themselves.
Cue CHINA!CHINA! and whatever other confetti they can toss in the air. It probably won't work. Inflation is grinding on people every day, especially food and gas prices.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:No kidding. The Biden* policies are trainwrecks and everybody knows it's the DNC's fault.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Keep talking about stupid bullshit nobody cares about, Cap'n, and I'll just sit back and watch while Democrats destroy themselves.
Cue CHINA!CHINA! and whatever other confetti they can toss in the air. It probably won't work. Inflation is grinding on people every day, especially food and gas prices.
They'll rue the day they stole the 2020 election with mail-in fraud ballots.
A lot of the economic fallout that is happening would have happened regardless after the Covid shutdowns fucked the world economy. Now it all falls in Democrat's laps on top of every failed policy they've orchestrated to make it worse, the crime surging everywhere, two school shootings in a week's time which is just the tip of the spear when it comes to figuring out just how badly we fucked the heads of millions of kids over the last two years, unchecked illegal immigration that is aided and abetted by Democrats who are flying and busing them all over the country in the cover of night and now they're going to try to redouble efforts to dismantle the 2nd amendment on top of it.
P.S. Nancy Pelosi was just informed that she can no longer receive Holy Communion when she goes to church too. Not that anybody believes that evil little harpy has a religious bone in her body.
--------------------------------------------------
Me: "Remember Covid?"
Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:You posted 19 statements with nohing to back them up. YOUR ability to post any ole thing that is put in your head is impressive. I answered the way you posted. Unlike you, I have specific sources for my statements (when I post I THINK it is solely what I think, otherwise there are sources) but I wasn't going to spend a fuck-ton of time on this.
CA{OMN: Goddamn Siggy. I knew you were off your nut, but your willingness to just float any ole thing, or any wild guess as proof of something - no cites, no evidence, just biased speculation from unknown sources - is, impressive.
Dood, you're the one that complained about Fact-Free zones. If you have specific sources why wouldn't you post them? You could have removed all doubt that you were right and that you really do respect the Facts. Or maybe you're sources are obvious shite and the facts aren't very flattering to your boy, Putin?
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
I ask again, why do you bother?
Huh??? You pestered me over and over again to answer your quesion. And NOW you ask why I bothered?
Nobody brings the stupid deflection delaying tactic like Siggy. Here, my actual question: "Why do you bother to spend sop much time posting so much obvious crap?" We know you know it is. Don't you get tired of wasting your own time?
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Quote:
CAPON: Nobody brings the stupid deflection delaying tactic like Siggy. Here, my actual question: "Why do you bother?"
Nobody misrespresents like you, CAPON. HOW MANY TIMES did you pester me to address your post? Five times across TWO threads?
More??
I addressed your scheiss, which had NO sourcing for the crap that fell out of your head. And now you ask me why I bother?
You're right.
I won't bother, no matter how much you beg me.
And if you bother to ask me why, I won't remind you.
But everyone else here will remember.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
HOW MANY TIMES did you pester me to address your post? Five times across TWO threads?
More??
Damn straight. Takes a heap of persistence to get you to answer simple questions. You act like you have all the answers but then you dodge answering "Five times across TWO threads? More??"
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I addressed your scheiss, which had NO sourcing for the crap that fell out of your head. And now you ask me why I bother?
I have plenty of sourcing and none of it Kyiv or Russian. Problem with you - the person who begs for "discussion like we use to have" - is you'll dismiss it out of hand if it doesn't agree with your pro Russian pov. Or you don't like the way a question is asked, or you'll act like your answer has to be framed in the context of something else, or... whatever obvious bs dodge you type out. Anything but confront Putin's colossal, murderous fkc up.
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I won't bother, no matter how much you beg me.
And if you bother to ask me why, I won't remind you.
CYA! Running away again.
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
But everyone else here will remember.
Yeah, we'll remember that you bitched about a "fact free zone" and then when given the chance to provide Facts you dropped a load of unsubstantiated bs and ran for cover, as usual.
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Fuck off Cap'n.
Go back to the hole you'd been hiding in for two years.
--------------------------------------------------
Me: "Remember Covid?"
Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"
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Quote:UNLIKE YOU, this is not my paid job. I have more important things to do than cater to your whining.
SignyM:
HOW MANY TIMES did you pester me to address your post? Five times across TWO threads?
More??
CAPON: Damn straight. Takes a heap of persistence to get you to answer simple questions. You act like you have all the answers but then you dodge answering "Five times across TWO threads? More??"
You say you have sources?
Link them.
C'mon, you want me to spend my time tracking down every source?
AFTER YOU.
I'll bet they're all M$M and not a credible article in the whole pile of manure.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Quote:Huh!
SIGNY:
HOW MANY TIMES did you pester me to address your post? Five times across TWO threads?
More??
CAPON: Damn straight. Takes a heap of persistence to get you to answer simple questions. You act like you have all the answers but then you dodge answering "Five times across TWO threads? More??"
SIGNY: UNLIKE YOU, this is not my paid job. I have more important things to do than cater to your whining.
You say you have sources?
Link them.
C'mon, you want me to spend my time tracking down every source?
AFTER YOU.
I'll bet they're all M$M and not a credible article in the whole pile of manure.
No links from CAPON!
Stalling again, I see.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
SIGNY: UNLIKE YOU, this is not my paid job. I have more important things to do than cater to your whining.
You say you have sources?
Link them.
C'mon, you want me to spend my time tracking down every source?
AFTER YOU.
I'll bet they're all M$M and not a credible article in the whole pile of manure.
^ Just more dodging with added whining ^
It's your go-to pattern when anyone presents any details that make Puty / Russia look bad:
1. SIG makes bold statement, "This topic is Fact free!"
2. People ask Sig to present her facts
3. Sig posts unsourced, obvious personal goofyisms, "China wishes it were in this war on Russia's side."
4. Her *observations* are challenged
5. Then the dodging starts: Sig says counter posts are in the wrong thread
6. A new thread is started
7. Sig says "I don't like the wording!"
8. Things are re-worded
9. Zigzag says "No! Where are your links???"
10. I say, "I'm not using any Ukraine sources. Besides, you'll just dismiss any source I use."
11. ZIGzag says: "I'll bet they're all M$M and not a credible article in the whole pile of manure. "
12. I say, "See?"
13. I mention, "It was you that started this whole thing by complaining about zero facts. But now you won't produce any??"
13. Zigzag: Starts whining and lying: "I don't have time to get links! I don't do this for a living like you do! Wha!"
Honestly, we all knew you had nothing but BS from the start.
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Quote:Check out this day in Signym history May 27, 2017:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Honestly, we all knew you had nothing but BS from the start.
Quote:http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61678&mid=10314
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yep, AFTER THE ELECTION, Kushner tried to establish a confidential communications channel with a foreign power LIKE MOST PRESIDENTS DO.
JO, THUGR, try to stop hyperventilating for a bit, okay?
The Trump transition team was preparing to do exactly what it said it was going to do: Try to find common ground with Russia, and fight ISIS. Personally, I'm all for it. I don't see any reason to (1) destroy nations willy- nilly, (2) antagonize Russia for no reason, and (3) use ISIS as our proxy in the Middle East. The headlines may as well have read TRUMP TRANSITION TEAM PREPARES TO IMPLEMENT PLATFORM PLANK. I happen to be all for it because I think it's good for America.
Just because you don't LIKE that policy doesn't make it "treason". You have to show ....as you have not yet done ... how that might be bad for America. Also, show that it was deliberately against our interests. Will you ever get to "step two"? 'Cause you've been stuck at "step one" for four months now.
Now, I can show you top security people and Presidents who HAVE broken the Constitution and lied about it and have made ruinous decisions. Some of those people ... well, let's just say that they're still lying today. When are you going to start noticing THAT as treason?
-----------
"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one
67#1031467
Signym is still playing the same tired old games five years later.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:I see you're still dodging providing LINKS. Yanno,the kind of sourcing that you want from others.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
SIGNY: UNLIKE YOU, this is not my paid job. I have more important things to do than cater to your whining.
You say you have sources?
Link them.
C'mon, you want me to spend my time tracking down every source?
AFTER YOU.
I'll bet they're all M$M and not a credible article in the whole pile of manure.
^ Just more dodging with added whining ^
It's your go-to pattern when anyone presents any details that make Puty / Russia look bad:
1. SIG makes bold statement, "This topic is Fact free!"
2. People ask Sig to present her facts
3. Sig posts unsourced, obvious personal goofyisms, "China wishes it were in this war on Russia's side."
4. Her *observations* are challenged
5. Then the dodging starts: Sig says counter posts are in the wrong thread
6. A new thread is started
7. Sig says "I don't like the wording!"
8. Things are re-worded
9. Zigzag says "No! Where are your links???"
10. I say, "I'm not using any Ukraine sources. Besides, you'll just dismiss any source I use."
11. ZIGzag says: "I'll bet they're all M$M and not a credible article in the whole pile of manure. "
12. I say, "See?"
13. I mention, "It was you that started this whole thing by complaining about zero facts. But now you won't produce any??"
13. Zigzag: Starts whining and lying: "I don't have time to get links! I don't do this for a living like you do! Wha!"
Honestly, we all knew you had nothing but BS from the start.
Your delaying tatics are obvious.
Well, if you're going to start establishing your statements as FACTS, you better hop to!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Quote:http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61678&mid=10314
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yep, AFTER THE ELECTION, Kushner tried to establish a confidential communications channel with a foreign power LIKE MOST PRESIDENTS DO.
JO, THUGR, try to stop hyperventilating for a bit, okay?
The Trump transition team was preparing to do exactly what it said it was going to do: Try to find common ground with Russia, and fight ISIS. Personally, I'm all for it. I don't see any reason to (1) destroy nations willy- nilly, (2) antagonize Russia for no reason, and (3) use ISIS as our proxy in the Middle East. The headlines may as well have read TRUMP TRANSITION TEAM PREPARES TO IMPLEMENT PLATFORM PLANK. I happen to be all for it because I think it's good for America.
Just because you don't LIKE that policy doesn't make it "treason". You have to show ....as you have not yet done ... how that might be bad for America. Also, show that it was deliberately against our interests. Will you ever get to "step two"? 'Cause you've been stuck at "step one" for four months now.
Now, I can show you top security people and Presidents who HAVE broken the Constitution and lied about it and have made ruinous decisions. Some of those people ... well, let's just say that they're still lying today. When are you going to start noticing THAT as treason?
67#1031467
True then, still true today.
RUSSIA!COLLUSION! was a hoax made up by the Hillary team.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:Check out this day in Signym history May 27, 2017:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Honestly, we all knew you had nothing but BS from the start.Quote:http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61678&mid=10314
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yep, AFTER THE ELECTION, Kushner tried to establish a confidential communications channel with a foreign power LIKE MOST PRESIDENTS DO.
JO, THUGR, try to stop hyperventilating for a bit, okay?
The Trump transition team was preparing to do exactly what it said it was going to do: Try to find common ground with Russia, and fight ISIS. Personally, I'm all for it. I don't see any reason to (1) destroy nations willy- nilly, (2) antagonize Russia for no reason, and (3) use ISIS as our proxy in the Middle East. The headlines may as well have read TRUMP TRANSITION TEAM PREPARES TO IMPLEMENT PLATFORM PLANK. I happen to be all for it because I think it's good for America.
Just because you don't LIKE that policy doesn't make it "treason". You have to show ....as you have not yet done ... how that might be bad for America. Also, show that it was deliberately against our interests. Will you ever get to "step two"? 'Cause you've been stuck at "step one" for four months now.
Now, I can show you top security people and Presidents who HAVE broken the Constitution and lied about it and have made ruinous decisions. Some of those people ... well, let's just say that they're still lying today. When are you going to start noticing THAT as treason?
-----------
"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one
67#1031467
Signym is still playing the same tired old games five years later.
The game of making unsupported claims and then dodging when any of us question them is an old favorite from Zigzag and Kookie. Talk about Fact Free people. I assume it's a practice learned at home. I imagine they even try and take pride in it. "My dad was a clever liar."
If you follow Julia Davis on twitter, she posts clips from Russia Tv. Recently they have been of their version of our Sunday News programs - talking heads speculating on The War. The crazy sht they say is just like reading a Sig post. It's clearly a competition. They try and out-do each other in terms of who can be the most provocative and outlandish. Or flat out ridiculous depending on you pov.
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews
Recent
Julia Davis says: "I'm hearing this message on multiple programs broadcast by Russian state TV, it must be one of their mandatory assignments. The gist of it: yes, there will be global hunger, but those who have good relations with Russia won't starve. Primitive, cruel and callous Russian agitprop."
"Behind all of these nuclear threats and claims that America wouldn't help Europe if Russia decides to nuke it, there's underlying panic about Russia being economically unprepared to keep waging this war. "
"I'm used to seeing clips of Scott Ritter on Russian state TV, which come up almost as often as those of Tucker Carlson. Russian military expert claimed that he personally called Ritter for advice, which they presented as "American military expertise" on a state TV program."
"No Visa, Mastercard, iPhone, or McDonald’s, crowdfunding for drones, and sending toilet paper to the troops:
The Kremlin's mouthpieces who hyped up the war in Ukraine are now having a pity party over the crushing impact the conflict has had on Russia."
"What's sicker than
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Quote:http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61678&mid=10314
SIGNYM:
Yep, AFTER THE ELECTION, Kushner tried to establish a confidential communications channel with a foreign power LIKE MOST PRESIDENTS DO.
JO, THUGR, try to stop hyperventilating for a bit, okay?
The Trump transition team was preparing to do exactly what it said it was going to do: Try to find common ground with Russia, and fight ISIS. Personally, I'm all for it. I don't see any reason to (1) destroy nations willy- nilly, (2) antagonize Russia for no reason, and (3) use ISIS as our proxy in the Middle East. The headlines may as well have read TRUMP TRANSITION TEAM PREPARES TO IMPLEMENT PLATFORM PLANK. I happen to be all for it because I think it's good for America.
Just because you don't LIKE that policy doesn't make it "treason". You have to show ....as you have not yet done ... how that might be bad for America. Also, show that it was deliberately against our interests. Will you ever get to "step two"? 'Cause you've been stuck at "step one" for four months now.
Now, I can show you top security people and Presidents who HAVE broken the Constitution and lied about it and have made ruinous decisions. Some of those people ... well, let's just say that they're still lying today. When are you going to start noticing THAT as treason?
67#1031467
True then, still true today.
RUSSIA!COLLUSION! was a hoax made up by the Hillary team.
And CAPON is doing his level-best to distract from providing those LINKS that (he says) aren't from Kiev or Russia.
Sorry dood. It's not working.
But keep on dodging and dancing!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Hey, add "Genocidal Maniac" to the list of Putin's greatest personality traits. His legacy just keeps getting better.
https://nyti.ms/3wRRRmD
May 27, 2022
Victoria Kim
A new report concludes that Russia is inciting genocide in Ukraine.
"Russia is responsible for inciting genocide in Ukraine, with the apparent intent of destroying the Ukrainian people, a new report released Friday by international legal scholars and human rights experts concluded.
The report said that mass killings, deliberate attacks on shelters or evacuation routes, and the indiscriminate bombardment of residential areas by Russian forces established a “genocidal pattern” indicating an intent to wipe out a substantial part of the Ukrainian population, in violation of the U.N. Genocide Convention.
Rhetoric from the highest levels of the Kremlin and Russian state media denying the Ukrainian national identity and dehumanizing its people amounts to “state-orchestrated” incitement of genocide, according to the report, which was released by the Washington-based New Lines Institute for Strategy and Policy think tank and the Montreal-based Raoul Wallenberg Center for Human Rights.
“There is considerable evidence demonstrating that Russian soldiers have internalized state propaganda and either expressed genocidal intent or carried out atrocities in response to it,” wrote the authors, who include former war crimes prosecutors, former ambassadors and Canada’s former justice minister.
Under international law, genocide is defined as killing or causing serious bodily or mental harm “with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.”
The report found evidence that Ukrainians are at “imminent” risk of genocide, which would require nations that are party to the Genocide Convention to act to prevent the deaths and punish those responsible. While the report’s authors noted that they were using a lower standard of proof than would be required in international courts, they said there were “reasonable grounds to conclude” Russia was in violation of the Genocide Convention."
I'm guessing Sicknym will just say, "Yeah, wull, war is hell!"
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Quote:This remains true, too: Robert Mueller asked Trump about Ukraine and Russian Interference In The
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
True then, still true today.
RUSSIA!COLLUSION! was a hoax made up by the Hillary team.
2016 Presidential Election. These are the questions followed by Trump's I don't recall answers.
f. What role, if any, did you have in changing the Republican Party platform regarding arming Ukraine during the Republican National Convention? Prior to the convention, what information did you have about this platform provision? After the platform provision was changed, who told you about the change, when did they tell you, what were you told about why it was changed, and who was involved?
g. On July 27, 2016, in response to a question about whether you would recognize Crimea as Russian territory and lift sanctions on Russia, you said: "We'll be looking at that. Yeah, we'll be looking." Did you intend to communicate by that statement or at any other time during the campaign a willingness to lift sanctions and/or recognize Russia's annexation of Crimea if you were elected?
What consideration did you give to lifting sanctions and/or recognizing Russia's annexation of Crimea if you were elected? Describe who you spoke with about this topic, when, the substance of the discussion(s).
What were Trump’s answers? Nothing, which is extremely odd because the GOP platform was rewritten to give Putin everything he would ever want:
Trump’s Response to Question IV, Part (f)
I have no recollection of the details of what, when, or from what source l first learned about the change to the platform amendment regarding arming Ukraine, but I generally recall learning of the issue as part of media reporting. I do not recall being involved in changing the language to the amendment.
Trump’s Response to Question IV, Part (g)
My statement did not communicate any position.
See page 437 of 448 “Report on the Investigation into Russian Interference in the 2016 Presidential Election”
https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/download
Trump made change that he doesn’t talk about. See changes to 2016 gop platform ukraine
https://www.google.com/search?q=changes+to+2016+gop+platform+ukraine
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Followed by Trump Derangement Syndrome .
*****
How about those LINKS, CAPN?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Quote:Signym, I'm sorry to tell you this but Senate Republicans provided hard evidence that shredded Trump’s persistent lies about a Russia ‘hoax’ and Signym's lies.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Followed by Trump Derangement Syndrome .
A Republican-led Senate committee chronicles the “grave counterintelligence threat” posed by the extensive contacts between Trump’s former campaign chairman and a Russian intelligence operative.
The final volume of the report by the Senate Intelligence Committee’s Russia investigation arrives late in the game. Still, it offers the detailed accounting of how Russian spies worked with the Trump team that former special counsel Robert S. Mueller III should have given the country last year. It offers raw material for the wide-ranging impeachment inquiry that the House of Representatives should have conducted.
Here at last is hard evidence — certified by GOP committee leaders and published that shreds Trump’s false claims of a Russia “hoax” or “witch hunt.” Let us never hear that glib dismissal of fact again. From now on, the simple answer to Trump is: “That’s not what Senate Republicans found.”
Read this passage from the report and consider what it tells us about Trump and his apologists: “The Committee observed numerous Russian-government actors from late 2016 until at least January 2020 consistently spreading overlapping false narratives which sought to discredit investigations into Russian interference.”
One goal of this coverup was to “promote the narrative that Ukraine, not Russia, had interfered in the 2016 U.S. election,” the Senate report says. Sound familiar? It should. This lie has been voiced repeatedly by Trump and his defenders and Signym.
More at https://attentiontotheunseen.com/2020/08/21/senate-republicans-provide
-hard-evidence-that-shreds-trumps-persistent-lies-about-a-russia-hoax/
and
https://web.archive.org/web/20210329071339/https://www.washingtonpost.
com/opinions/hard-evidence-at-last-that-shreds-trumps-lies-about-a-russia-hoax/2020/08/20/17df6bcc-e31a-11ea-8181-606e603bb1c4_story.html
To read the text of “Volume 5: Counterintelligence Threats and Vulnerabilities”
www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intel-releases-volume-5-bipar
tisan-russia-report
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Senate Republicans are mostly as corrupt as Senate Democrats.
Durham's criminal investigation -operating as a cover-up as much as anything- is nonetheless revealing that this is a Hillary invention. If I had to create a conspiracy theory as to why this is surfacing now, the Obama faction is trying to bury Hillary and Joe*.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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And I ask myself: is CAPON running away from this thread?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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CAPN, running away from his own thread.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
SIGNY: UNLIKE YOU, this is not my paid job. I have more important things to do than cater to your whining.
You say you have sources?
Link them.
C'mon, you want me to spend my time tracking down every source?
AFTER YOU.
I'll bet they're all M$M and not a credible article in the whole pile of manure.
^ Just more dodging with added whining ^
It's your go-to pattern when anyone presents any details that make Puty / Russia look bad:
1. SIG makes bold statement, "This topic is Fact free!"
2. People ask Sig to present her facts
3. Sig posts unsourced, obvious personal goofyisms, "China wishes it were in this war on Russia's side."
4. Her *observations* are challenged
5. Then the dodging starts: Sig says counter posts are in the wrong thread
6. A new thread is started
7. Sig says "I don't like the wording!"
8. Things are re-worded
9. Zigzag says "No! Where are your links???"
10. I say, "I'm not using any Ukraine sources. Besides, you'll just dismiss any source I use."
11. ZIGzag says: "I'll bet they're all M$M and not a credible article in the whole pile of manure. "
12. I say, "See?"
13. I mention, "It was you that started this whole thing by complaining about zero facts. But now you won't produce any??"
13. Zigzag: Starts whining and lying: "I don't have time to get links! I don't do this for a living like you do! Wha!"
Honestly, we all knew you had nothing but BS from the start.
T
In an interview with BBC Newsnight, the former Russian-state TV journalist Zhanna Agalakova urges Russians to turn off their TVs if they want the truth about the war in Ukraine.
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Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
In an interview with BBC Newsnight, the former Russian-state TV journalist Zhanna Agalakova urges Russians to turn off their TVs if they want the truth about the war in Ukraine.
I recommend that you do the same thing for the very same reason, Ted.
You're only getting Raytheon and Boeing's side of the story.
--------------------------------------------------
Me: "Remember Covid?"
Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"
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Quote:
THUGR: In an interview with BBC Newsnight, the former Russian-state TV journalist Zhanna Agalakova urges Russians to turn off their TVs if they want the truth about the war in Ukraine.
It's a good thing you don't listen to Russian TV News, then!
But don't you think it ...odd... that CAPON is afraid to source his posts?
To the point where he's running away from his own thread?
So how can you trust what he posts?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
THUGR: In an interview with BBC Newsnight, the former Russian-state TV journalist Zhanna Agalakova urges Russians to turn off their TVs if they want the truth about the war in Ukraine.
It's a good thing you don't listen to Russian TV News, then!
But don't you think it ...odd... that CAPON is afraid to source his posts?
To the point where he's running away from his own thread?
So how can you trust what he posts?
Signym has solidified her role as being a stupid evil troll in these threads. We are once again witnessing her never ending support for Putins’ rampage against women and children. Yes, just as we did with Syria and Chechnya in the past, today we witness her support for Putin over Ukraine.
She always offers her support for Putins’ criminal assaults on civilians. And all other Russian criminal endeavors. The hundreds upon hundreds of targeted and destroyed civilian entities. Hospitals, schools, orphanages, senior homes, cultural centers and theaters where women and children attempted to take refuge from Russian bombs. You name it. All supported here by Signym, kiki and yes Jack. In Jacks case, to not condemn an evil act is to support an evil act. Some cower from the evil, and yes sadly, some try and capitalize on it. Like to use it to troll in these threads.
All three project lunacy because their propaganda cannot change facts into lies as they would like. The problem they all have, is the facts stay with us and the lies do not. The facts come from the best sources possible and the lies do not. All their attempted deflections away from the truth while trying to promote fake propaganda, is being defied by most of the democratically elected world leaders. And the world’s mainstream press.
I now have to admit I am now wondering if Jewelstatefan is not just another of Kikis’ bots.
T
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T
Russian occupiers are stealing all the metal produced on AzovSteel from Mariupol
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/v0pog5/art_friday_awards_cha
rities_daily_discussion/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
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Get fucked Ted.
--------------------------------------------------
Me: "Remember Covid?"
Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"
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THUGR has once again established himself as the most brainwashed and gullible person here.
Son, while you were insisting that Ukraine was "winning" I was accurately predicting the opposite.
While you were insisting that sanctions were destroying Russia's economy and finances, I was accurately noting that it was the EU'S economy and currenct that was shrinking, while Russia's economy and fiance's were growing more robust.
It is not being supportive or a troll to post THE TRUTH, instead of hogwash and hopium. You OTOH keep posting both.
Grow up.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
THUGR has once again established himself as the most brainwashed and gullible person here.
Son, while you were insisting that Ukraine was "winning" I was accurately predicting the opposite.
While you were insisting that sanctions were destroying Russia's economy and finances, I was accurately noting that it was the EU'S economy and currenct that was shrinking, while Russia's economy and fiance's were growing more robust.
It is not being supportive or a troll to post THE TRUTH, instead of hogwash and hopium. You OTOH keep posting both.
Grow up.
By the by...
On top of all of the other bad economic news here, first quarter US GDP was down 1.5% this year.
https://www.bea.gov/news/2022/gross-domestic-product-second-estimate-a
nd-corporate-profits-preliminary-first-quarter
Fuck Joe Biden*.
--------------------------------------------------
Me: "Remember Covid?"
Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
THUGR has once again established himself as the most brainwashed and gullible person here.
Son, while you were insisting that Ukraine was "winning" I was accurately predicting the opposite.
While you were insisting that sanctions were destroying Russia's economy and finances, I was accurately noting that it was the EU'S economy and currenct that was shrinking, while Russia's economy and fiance's were growing more robust.
It is not being supportive or a troll to post THE TRUTH, instead of hogwash and hopium. You OTOH keep posting both.
Grow up.
Comrade Polish Russian Collaborator Signym says I am brain washed. What’s her excuse for supporting carpet bombing cities, women and children? As for any Russian successes since the beginning of the war, there are very few. They come at a great cost, and as we’ve seen they are fleeting.
The Russians are throwing everything they have at the Ukrainians. They are at best, advancing a mile a day in one or two highly troop concentrated areas. This cannot be considered a success in a war that was supposed to last seventy-two hours. This cannot be considered a success when Putin has lost maybe a third of his army fighting for land he can't possibly hold.
As for Russia's economy, ask the Russian people.
T
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Quote:Russian politics takes place within a closed information environment which Putin designed and runs. He does not need our help in the real world to craft reassuring fictions for Russians. He has been doing this for twenty years without our help.
Originally posted by SignyM:
THUGR has once again established himself as the most brainwashed and gullible person here.
Son, while you were insisting that Ukraine was "winning" I was accurately predicting the opposite.
While you were insisting that sanctions were destroying Russia's economy and finances, I was accurately noting that it was the EU'S economy and currenct that was shrinking, while Russia's economy and fiance's were growing more robust.
It is not being supportive or a troll to post THE TRUTH, instead of hogwash and hopium. You OTOH keep posting both.
Grow up.
Ukrainians understand this, which is one reason that they become irritated when we suggest that they concede territory or victory to Russia because of a concern about Putin's internal mental state. They know that this is not only unjust but pointless. What matters in Russian politics is not Putin's feelings nor battlefield realities but the ability of the Putin regime to change the story for Russian media consumers. It is senseless, as the Ukrainians understand, to sentence real people to suffer and die for the sake of Russian narratives that do not even depend upon the real world.
What happens if Putin decides that he is losing in Ukraine? He will act to protect himself by declaring victory and changing the subject. He does not need an off ramp in the real world, because that is not where his power rests. All he needs to do is change the story in Russia's virtual world, as he has been doing for decades. This is just a matter of setting the agenda in a meeting. In virtual reality there is always an escape route, and for this reason Putin cannot be "cornered." (Neither, for that matter, can the actual Russian army in actual Ukraine. When Russian units are defeated, they just cross back into Russia).
Putin's power is identical with his ability to change the subject on Russian television. He does this all the time. Think about how the war began. Until late February of this year, the entire Russian media was clamoring that an invasion of Ukraine was unthinkable and that all the evidence was just warmongering by the CIA. Russians believed that, or pretended to. Then, once Russia did in fact invade Ukraine, war was presented as inevitable and righteous. Now Russians believe this, or pretend to. In 2015, when Russia's last invasion of Ukraine failed to meet all of its objectives, the Russian media changed the subject from one day to the next from Ukraine to Syria. This is simply how Russia is ruled: invasions and storytelling about invasions. If the invasion doesn't work out, the story changes.
If defeated in reality, Putin will declare victory on television, and Russians will believe him, or pretend that they believe him. He will find a new subject on which to fasten their attention. This is the Kremlin's problem, not ours. These are internal Russian mechanisms in which outside actors are essentially irrelevant. It makes no sense to create an "off-ramp" in the real world, when all Putin needs is an "off-ramp" in his virtual world. It will be built by propagandists from pixels, and we are not needed for that. Indeed, there is something more than a little humiliating in Western leaders offering themselves as unpaid and unneeded interns for Russian television channels.
The odd thing is that Western leaders know all of this, or should. Given plenty of time to reflect after Russia's last invasion of Ukraine in 2014, we have become aware of the primary role that political fiction plays in Russian life. Everyone who matters in public discussions ought to be aware that Putin governs in media rather than
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Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Comrade Polish Russian Collaborator Signym says I am brain washed.
She's wrong.
One must have a brain before the washing can begin.
--------------------------------------------------
Me: "Remember Covid?"
Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"
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Quote:Russian politics takes place within a closed information environment which Putin designed and runs. He does not need our help in the real world to craft reassuring fictions for Russians. He has been doing this for twenty years without our help.
Originally posted by SignyM:
THUGR has once again established himself as the most brainwashed and gullible person here.
Son, while you were insisting that Ukraine was "winning" I was accurately predicting the opposite.
While you were insisting that sanctions were destroying Russia's economy and finances, I was accurately noting that it was the EU'S economy and currenct that was shrinking, while Russia's economy and fiance's were growing more robust.
It is not being supportive or a troll to post THE TRUTH, instead of hogwash and hopium. You OTOH keep posting both.
Grow up.
Ukrainians understand this, which is one reason that they become irritated when we suggest that they concede territory or victory to Russia because of a concern about Putin's internal mental state. They know that this is not only unjust but pointless. What matters in Russian politics is not Putin's feelings nor battlefield realities but the ability of the Putin regime to change the story for Russian media consumers. It is senseless, as the Ukrainians understand, to sentence real people to suffer and die for the sake of Russian narratives that do not even depend upon the real world.
What happens if Putin decides that he is losing in Ukraine? He will act to protect himself by declaring victory and changing the subject. He does not need an off ramp in the real world, because that is not where his power rests. All he needs to do is change the story in Russia's virtual world, as he has been doing for decades. This is just a matter of setting the agenda in a meeting. In virtual reality there is always an escape route, and for this reason Putin cannot be "cornered." (Neither, for that matter, can the actual Russian army in actual Ukraine. When Russian units are defeated, they just cross back into Russia).
Putin's power is identical with his ability to change the subject on Russian television. He does this all the time. Think about how the war began. Until late February of this year, the entire Russian media was clamoring that an invasion of Ukraine was unthinkable and that all the evidence was just warmongering by the CIA. Russians believed that, or pretended to. Then, once Russia did in fact invade Ukraine, war was presented as inevitable and righteous. Now Russians believe this, or pretend to. In 2015, when Russia's last invasion of Ukraine failed to meet all of its objectives, the Russian media changed the subject from one day to the next from Ukraine to Syria. This is simply how Russia is ruled: invasions and storytelling about invasions. If the invasion doesn't work out, the story changes.
If defeated in reality, Putin will declare victory on television, and Russians will believe him, or pretend that they believe him. He will find a new subject on which to fasten their attention. This is the Kremlin's problem, not ours. These are internal Russian mechanisms in which outside actors are essentially irrelevant. It makes no sense to create an "off-ramp" in the real world, when all Putin needs is an "off-ramp" in his virtual world. It will be built by propagandists from pixels, and we are not needed for that. Indeed, there is something more than a little humiliating in Western leaders offering themselves as unpaid and unneeded interns for Russian television channels.
The odd thing is that Western leaders know all of this, or should. Given plenty of time to reflect after Russia's last invasion of Ukraine in 2014, we have become aware of the primary role that political fiction plays in Russian life. Everyone who matters in public discussions ought to be aware that Putin governs in media rather than
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SECOND: Russian politics takes place within a closed information environment which Putin designed and runs. He does not need our help in the real world to craft reassuring fictions for Russians. He has been doing this for twenty years without our help.
Bullshit. Until very recently Russians had full access to western press. That way, average Russians could see all of the nasty things that the west was publishing about them. The west, however, had been practicing psyops and censorship for decades. ("Manufaturing Consent" Noam Chomsky) and it's gotten to be a nonstop operation since just before Trump's election.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake
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June 20, 2022
The Nobel Peace Prize put up for auction by the Russian journalist Dmitri A. Muratov to help Ukrainian refugees sold Monday night for $103.5 million to an anonymous buyer, obliterating the record for a Nobel medal.
The proceeds from the auction will go to UNICEF to aid Ukrainian children and their families displaced by Russia’s invasion of their country.
Mr. Muratov is the editor in chief of the independent newspaper Novaya Gazeta, which suspended publication in March in response to the Kremlin’s increasingly draconian press laws. In an interview with The New York Times last month, he said he was inspired to auction the award he won last year by the Danish physicist Niels Bohr, who sold his medal to help civilian relief in Finland following the Soviet invasion of that country in 1939.
“We hope that this will serve as an example for other people like a flash mob, for other people to auction their valuable possessions, their heirlooms, to help refugees, Ukrainian refugees around the world,” Mr. Muratov said in a speech from the stage before the bidding began.
The previous record for auctioning off a Nobel medal came in 2014, when the prize belonging to James Watson, who shared in the discovery of the double-helix structure of DNA, sold for $4.1 million ($4.76 million, including the commission that goes to the auction house).
Heritage Auctions, which handled the sale of Mr. Muratov’s medal, has sold five former Nobel Prizes, including the one awarded to Watson’s co-discoverer, Francis Crick. That medal sold for $2.27 million in 2013.
More at https://web.archive.org/web/20220621050446/https://www.nytimes.com/202
2/06/20/arts/nobel-auction-muratov-ukraine.html
Will Putin be auctioning his Nobel Prize Medal to aid Ukrainian children?
First he has to win the medal.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Timothy Snyder -- Suddenly everyone’s a Russia expert and Ukraine expert now. I’ve been thinking about Russia and Ukraine my whole career, and I know the languages and I go to the places, and I’m sometimes shocked by how certain people are about things.
My own sense is that the best way to evaluate it is in terms of what Putin expected and then what hasn’t happened. So what Putin expected was that the whole country would fold up within three days. And that expectation was based upon a political assumption about what Ukraine is or what it isn’t. That obviously didn’t turn out to be true, but, as we know from lots of other historical examples, once you start a war, no matter how dumb your premise is, it’s very unlikely that you’re going to say, “Oh, my premise was dumb. I’m changing my mind.” People double down. And of course, Putin is going to double down. And I think he probably still in some way believes in his own basic premise.
The second part of the story is that obviously the Ukrainian nation does exist, contrary to Putin’s assumption. Ukrainian society is decentralized. It’s a society which is very suspicious of central authority in general, and obviously suspicious of somebody else’s central authority. And Russia is a very centralized type of society.
But this has all proven to have a kind of battlefield efficacy because Ukrainian doctrine was to break into small groups and to allow lower-level officers to have a great deal of autonomy in the field, and that’s proven to work quite well. So it’s interesting because what we have is not just a clash of armies — it is a really a clash of mentalities or a clash of systems. You can say it’s autocracy versus democracy and that would be true enough, but it’s also maybe more interesting to talk about it in terms of this highly vertical Russian way of doing things versus this much more horizontal, Ukrainian way of doing things.
Sean Illing -- Do you think Putin can somehow “win” in Ukraine, whatever that might mean?
Timothy Snyder -- I think what a lot of commentators miss is that Putin's power is 100 percent coextensive with his ability to change the story. So he can say he’s "won" in Russia almost no matter what happens on the battlefield.
Which is why a lot of this hand-wringing that we do in the West about whether we let him save face or give him off-ramps to climb down is just completely beside the point. Because he can decide today that he’s won. He can decide tomorrow he’s won. He could have decided last month that he’s won. He could decide next month that he’s won. And then the Russian people will believe him, or they’ll pretend to believe him, which amounts to the same thing.
The Ukrainians, though, can only win on the battlefield. Zelenskyy is a democratic elected politician. He doesn’t operate in virtual reality. He has to operate in the real reality and he could only win when his people allow him to win, or you can only end the war when his people allow them to end the war. So it’s an asymmetrical situation in that sense, but I think the Ukrainians can win. They know what they’re fighting for. It’s quite literally the existence of their state and of their people that’s at stake. And that’s why they’re fighting the way they are. And that’s why they’ll fight whether we arm them or not.
Timothy Snyder -- The Ukrainians have definitely bought us some time to think about all this. If Kyiv had really fallen at the end of February of this year, this would have been a very dark spring for democracies. If an extreme right-wing regime in Russia managed to destroy democracy in Ukraine that would have had effects for everyone.
Conversely, if Ukraine, despite people’s expectations, manages to hold this off, that will be a great boon to democracy. Because I think it either goes one way or the other. I don’t think there’s such a thing as stasis. So the Ukrainians have given us a chance to think. We need to realize that what the Ukrainians are doing is a very compressed example of the kind of courage that you actually need to keep a dem
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How to understand Russia and the war
by Alexander J. Motyl, Opinion Contributor - 06/21/22 7:00 AM ET
Navigating the debates on Russia’s war in Ukraine can be confusing for the uninitiated. In fact, the differences are largely due to different assumptions regarding politics in general and Russian politics in particular. The assumptions matter, because they inspire policies. They also matter because some assumptions are more plausible than others.
To what do you ascribe the greatest explanatory value?
To a) policymakers, their policies and their rhetoric?
To b) the institutions in which policymakers, policies and rhetoric are embedded?
Or c) to the still larger systems and cultures underlying all of the above?
If you opt for a), you’re likely to believe that Western policies and rhetoric had a decisive effect on post-Soviet Russia’s evolution. In particular, the decision to enlarge NATO — and possibly to have broken promises to the Russians not to do so — appears critically important in explaining Russian animus toward the West and its allies, such as Ukraine.
The strong point of this kind of analysis is that bad policies and bad rhetoric may be undone. Ending the war, therefore, can be achieved by means of negotiation and compromise, as many in the West suggest. The problem is that ascribing so much explanatory weight to policy and rhetoric ignores history, ideology and culture, and presupposes that Russian leaders are exceptionally sensitive human beings who start or end wars because of real or imagined slights. Given what we know about Russian elites, they appear to be the exact opposite: They’re tough, unsentimental and vicious. If so, then hoping to end the war by means of good-faith negotiations is doomed to failure.
If you opt for c), you’re likely to believe that Russian policies and rhetoric — and, of course, the decision to go to war and commit genocide in Ukraine — are the product of deep-seated political, social and cultural structures that have molded Russian society for hundreds of years. To its credit, this kind of analysis, which is usually favored by historians, takes into consideration Russian history and culture, and thus is grounded in Russian reality.
But that same strength is also this approach’s weakness. For one thing, structures appear to deprive Russians and Westerners of agency, dooming them to a repetition of historically codified forms of thinking and acting. Thus, many in this camp argue that it wasn’t Vladimir Putin who created the system, but that the system and culture created Putin — just as they created a whole string of dictators throughout Russian history. If culture is ultimately responsible for the choices Putin and his cronies have made, there is little to be done about Russia. It is not and will not be democratic, rational and enlightened in any way that the West would recognize. Peace is, therefore, impossible. The best one can hope for is a cold war and an impenetrable iron curtain surrounding the malignant Russian state.
I’ve left option b) for last, because it strikes me as most persuasive, possibly because it avoids the extremes of ignoring history and culture altogether or giving them sole responsibility for Russia’s behavior. According to the logic of this middle option, history and culture have molded the institutions, policies and discourses found in Russia, but elites — and especially powerful authoritarian, totalitarian and fascist elites — have the capacity to tailor institutions to their aspirations and needs. Russian leaders aren’t shy wallflowers who take umbrage at any scowl or frown, but neither are they puppets of large historical forces. Instead, they shape political, social, economic and cultural institutions — just as those institutions constrain, but do not predetermine, their policy choices and rhetoric.
Seen in this light, a change in rhetoric won’t lead to peace; nor is peace impossible because “that’s the way Russia is.” Instead, the war is the product of Putin’s choices on the one hand, and of the fascist system he built
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Putin, like Trump, doesn't care if something is moral or legal in any sense, and Putin surely doesn't care about "peace." He only cares about what he can do. I don't see this ending well for either side, but Russia has more of everything and can lose a lot more than Ukraine and weather the beating they're taking. I can't see any way for Ukraine to "win," except with Putin's death or a Russian coup (pretty doubtful). There are some abstract wins for Ukraine that are possible, but they won't mean much in real terms (honor, diminishing Russian authority globally, damaging Putin long term). If Russia stops at Donbas, it's probably just to bury their dead, replace some generals, and make some more threats while they build more bombs and missiles. Then it's back to genocide, phase 2.
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TRUMP! TRUMP! TRUMP!
Shut up, idiot.
P.S....
CBS NEWS: Russia's ruble is the strongest currency in the world this year
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-ukraine-ruble-currency-russian-eco
nomy-2022/
There you go, you dumb shits.
LET'S GO BRANDON!
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Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus
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T
Retired colonel says bridge explosion is one of Putin's 'biggest humiliations'
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T
Here you go putty
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'Ukraine news LIVE — Putin to order ‘second conscription’ as Russia’s frontline losses mount after embarrassing retreat'
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/20038859/ukraine-news-war-latest-russia-
putin/
‘We have nowhere to go’: The pensioners barely surviving on Ukraine’s front lines
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-war-put
in-frontline-b2218068.html
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