Corona Plague was Sweden’s controversial ‘herd immunity’ strategy correct all along? Controversial COVID-19 No Lockdown strategy ‘vindicated’
POSTED BY: JAYNEZTOWN
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 22, 2023 09:28
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Covid 19 coronavirus: Sweden's controversial virus strategy 'vindicated', say experts
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=
12364331
Coronavirus: Sweden bucks pandemic trend, still refuses to recommend face masks
https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3099672/coronavirus-swe
den-bucks-global-trend-refusing-recommend-face
A herd immunity coronavirus strategy can be 'dangerous,' experts say
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/a-herd-immunity-coronavirus-s
trategy-can-be-dangerous-experts-say/ar-BB18ztE8?li=BBnba9O
Editorial: Coronavirus 'herd immunity' is just another way to say 'let people die'
https://news.yahoo.com/editorial-coronavirus-herd-immunity-just-100023
261.html
Denmark and Sweden responded differently to the pandemic. How did they fare?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/denmark-and-sweden-responded-differe
ntly-to-the-pandemic-how-did-they-fare
Sweden’s disaster in disguise
It is wrong to blame Sweden’s Covid-19 death toll entirely on its lighter lockdown and attempt at herd immunity.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/swedens-disaster-in-disguise
Trump adviser reportedly wants to let COVID-19 spread, repeat Sweden’s mistakes
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08/trump-advisor-reportedly-pushi
ng-herd-immunity-idea-lambasted-by-experts/
Johan Giesecke, Sweden’s “Herd Immunity” Strategist gets WHO promotion
https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/09/11/johan-giesecke-swedens-herd-
immunity-strategist-gets-who-promotion/
Sweden's 'Herd Immunity' Mastermind Gets Promoted by WHO
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/sweden-embraced-herd-immunity
-while-the-uk-abandoned-the-idea-so-why-do-they-both-have-high-covid-19-fatality-rates/ar-BB18ocS2
?
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/pariah-state-no-longer-architec
t-swedens-covid-19-strategy-shows-lockdowns-werent
https://news.yahoo.com/why-a-herd-immunity-approach-to-covid-19-could-
be-a-deadly-disaster-153057073.html
,
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/coronavirus-sweden-controversial-
covid19-strategy-vindicated/news-story/bc4dcf3f8327c4a86734a4659e394ec5
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Their "strategy" would be considered "correct" only if you accept at least twice the number of deaths as similar nations (Norway, Finland) that followed different strategies.
There was a cost in human lives, which shouldn't be overlooked.
The reason to slow down the viral spread wasn't to eradicate the virus, but to give the medical community a chance to catch up and develop effective treatments. (Development of a vaccine was never the endpoint, as it would take far too long, and economies couldn't endure lockdowns for that length of time.)
Now that many clinical trials have been conducted worldwide, nations can let up on lockdowns without an explosion of deaths.
As I have posted to SIX many times, it's always been a question of how much cost to save how many lives. Sweden simply decided not to expend much effort to save lives, sacrificing their old people in the process. And Swedes, in general, were OK with that.
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Whatever.
The economy is trashed. Hope it was worth the old and dying people.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:SIX, the economy was trashed over a decade ago. Once manufacturing and production went overseas, everyone was left with meaningless schiess jobs. Making beautiful cups of capuccino or running people around in your car ... or taking out a loan to get a meaningless college degree... doesn't count as an economy.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Whatever.
The economy is trashed. Hope it was worth the old and dying people.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
The virus just made ALL of our fundamental weaknesses - economic, healthcare, financial, social, governmental - tragically obvious.
And it was going to be a shit sandwich no matter what. Even nations far better-positioned than we were to handle the pandemic had problems, either with excess deaths or economic downturn, or both.
Deal with it and stop whining like a spoiled child.
How do we fix what's broken? Where do we go from here?
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If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Hey Signy
For what it's worth, this is what I think's going on with Sweden.
If you look at Sweden and Washington State, they have something in common - their outbreaks, by random luck, started in nursing homes. If your general population isn't well-connected to your nursing homes, it's possible to defeat the virus by simply isolating that part of society even further and, basically, walling them off to meet their own fate. (And wall-off they did! Nursing home patients weren't given supplemental oxygen, or prone positioning, or sent to the hospital. Instead, they were given morphine and left to die from days-long increasing suffocation. As a result of the outbreak starting in nursing homes and being relatively confined to them, according to the most recent figures I could find from Sweden - May 2020 - nursing homes were responsible for 50% of COVID-19 deaths.) And, of course, as I have pointed out a number of times already, Sweden is a country structurally socially-distanced - a third work from home, half work from home in the cities, and most of Sweden's households are single-occupant younger generation ones (ie no multi-generational families in one home). In addition, Sweden has overall a far healthier population, with an obesity rate of only 21% as compared to the US rate of 36%, for example. Even more, Sweden isn't close to the levels needed for herd immunity.
That's as compared to say NYC where the virus emerged full-blown into the general population. You can get a feel for general population spread v nursing home spread by the fact that in the US 40% of deaths occurred in nursing homes as compared to Sweden's 50%. In the US, that's a difference of 20,000 deaths at this point, which is far beyond any random fluctuations and points to basic structural differences between the two countries. That, and the US as a whole has a far more unhealthy and vulnerable general population due to obesity, hypertension, etc, leading to an increased death rate in the general population overall.
ETA:
To discuss this further, graphs showing RATES - of new infections, of new deaths etc - are simply that: RATES.
Looking at rates alone can be very misleading. For example, if a country has 1 COVID-19 infection and gets another COVID-19 infection, the rate of new infections has gone up 100% !!! But the overall numbers are still low, and manageable.
OTOH if there are a million COVID-19 infections, and 20,000 more people get infected overnight, the rate of new infections is only 2% but (obviously) the situation is completely out of control.
So one needs to look at *new* infection and death rates in the context of total numbers and percent of population, to see what they do and don't mean.
Then there's the concept of R0. R0 is the natural, unmitigated increase of a contagion, that I'll call natural R0. And natural R0 relates to controlling the virus because herd immunity is calculated from it.
But I can see where what looks like the natural R0 might be different in different countries and in different groups in those countries. And that's not because the virus is different, or the people are different genetically or demoraphically, but because the patterns of people interacting are different. I'd expect that a society where people are traditionally isolated across the population would have a lower population R0, whereas the spread between people in contact with each other (families, tribes) would be much higher, all within the same population.
But apparent R0 is also tracked as a measure of success in controlling the spread. For example, if, through diligent efforts, the reported apparent R0 drops in a population, it's not (generally) because the virus changed. It's because people are changing the spread of the virus by changing their behavior. *The only thing holding the virus in check is the new behaviors.* Even at a lowered apparent R0, the virus still remains in the population, ready to bounce back should behaviors change to all
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Well, see, what Sweden did with it's old people is exactly what SIX has been advocating all along: euthanasia. (Eu = good, thanas = death. Good death. Or maybe just death, without the good part of relief of suffering.)
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But, what goes around, comes around. And that's especially true for SARS-CoV-2. It's not going to happen to just 'them'. It'll come to you, too.
And that's what makes the new data about persistent, even permanent, heart and lung damage, even in young people, even in mild cases, so concerning. This could be the medical depth charge waiting to go off.
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Oh. The horror. *yawn*
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Boris Johnson took advice from Sweden's no-lockdown scientist before rejecting tougher coronavirus restrictions
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/boris-johnson-took-advice-from-sw
edens-no-lockdown-scientist-before-rejecting-tougher-coronavirus-restrictions/ar-BB19nhrC
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
There was a cost in human lives, which shouldn't be overlooked.
I agree Sweden in its arrogance seems to have killed A LOT of its older people
but some are looking at the model again, maybe wondering about allowing it to spread in schools so stronger kids devolp immunity?
Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
And that's what makes the new data about persistent, even permanent, heart and lung damage, even in young people, even in mild cases, so concerning. This could be the medical depth charge waiting to go off.
This seems to be a worry, some people although healthy are not fully recovered 100% and they might have long lasting damage it seems.
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How Sweden’s herd immunity strategy has backfired
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/europe/2020/06/how-sweden-s-herd-im
munity-strategy-has-backfired
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A herd immunity strategy to fight the pandemic can be 'dangerous,' experts say. Here's why
https://www.kmov.com/news/a-herd-immunity-strategy-to-fight-the-pandem
ic-can-be-dangerous-experts-say-heres-why/article_fbe0eb2e-269c-53eb-bb48-7ba35fd117ef.html
WHO chief scientist warns against 'herd immunity' COVID strategy
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/medical/who-chief-scientist-warns-aga
inst-herd-immunity-covid-strategy/ar-BB19RPIK
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
There was a cost in human lives, which shouldn't be overlooked.
Quote:Sweden has a lot of its elderly population naturally isolated from young people. (Whether you think that's a good social structure or not is up to you.) On top of that, after its care-home debacle, Sweden added a lot of extra protections for those centers.
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
I agree Sweden in its arrogance seems to have killed A LOT of its older people
but some are looking at the model again, maybe wondering about allowing it to spread in schools so stronger kids [develop] immunity?
Most countries have a lot of multi-generation dwellings, and elderly and vulnerable people (those who have other risk factors besides age) who will otherwise get exposed in the course of daily living, like going shopping.
To be a viable strategy, you need to protect the vulnerable from the rest of the population who you've decided to let get infected. If you don't have that, Sweden's model falls apart as a consideration.
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Yes, there is something DIFFERENT about Sweden. Something that makes it NOT A GOOD MODEL for other nations. It's NOT their "herd immunity" program, it's the fact that they isolate their vulnerable elderly. Also, as a rule, their exposed population overall is fitter and healthier than .... say... the USA's. So even as Sweden's number of new cases is rising sharply their new deaths are at zero.
UNLIKE SWEDEN, in the USA, many young adults are livng with mom and/or dad. That means that the USA has multi-generational households. So even tho the United States is unwittingly, and slowly, following Sweden's example, with the # of new cases rising dramatically (like in Sweden) the #of new deaths isn't at "zero" and is unlikely to ever go to "zero".
As I was posting about the Swedish curve versus other nations, JSF said that I was forgetting age factor. I WAS NOT. The infection fatality rate and the case fatality among the over-70s is STILL VERY HIGH https://reason.com/2020/09/29/the-latest-cdc-estimates-of-covid-19s-in
fection-fatality-rate-vary-dramatically-with-age/ and as far as I can tell has not budged downwards much. And there are still millions of vulnerable elderly people still around, so it's not as if the virus had already "reaped" the population of vulnerable and/or elderly.
So we still have plenty more deaths to go if we're to reach "herd immunity" (assuming that that ever happens and that SARS-CoV2 doesn't behave like an ordinary cold and infect people over and over.) because - unlike Sweden - we don't isolate our elderly from the virus, like they do.
In thinking about the different curves between #new infections versus #new deaths (or #new hospitalizations) and how they vary from nation to nation, I think the dramatic USA death spike at the beginning without the attendant dramatic infection spike was, as KIKI said, due to two things:
1) Lack of testing in the very beginning. Tests were is such short supply that even if you were suffering greatly with Covid at home, you didn't get tested. Imagine that the #new infections curve, at the very beginning of our epidemic, was 30-80X HIGHER than is portrayed, to account for the #of people not tested. The death to infection curves would look a lot more normal.
2) The infection hit the elderly cohort first.
There's no "X" immunity out there, and the virus is still the same and still whacking off the old and vulnerable. We have not reached "herd immunity" and are still about 90% away from it.
And so BTW is Sweden. They, too, are not anywhere near "herd immunity". Tellingly, SWEDEN has not done at recent random serological testing, but as of Mya, in Stockholm, with the highest infection rate, the serological tests indicate about 10%. Even if they've doubled that since then, they've still got about 80% to go
https://swprs.org/studies-on-covid-19-lethality/
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/10/17/covid-19-the-case-ag
ainst-herd-immunity/
https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2020/10/12/letter-from-sweden-covid
-coronavirus/ideas/dispatches/
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The pursuit of herd immunity is a folly – so who's funding this bad science?
Links between an anti-lockdown declaration and a libertarian thinktank suggest a hidden agenda
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/18/covid-herd-immun
ity-funding-bad-science-anti-lockdown
As we approach one of the most important elections in the history of western democracy (itself described as a referendum on lockdown), we should be asking who funded this piece of political theatre, and for what purpose. The American Institute for Economic Research (AIER), where the declaration was signed, is a libertarian thinktank that is, in its own words, committed to “pure freedom” and wishes to see the “role of government … sharply confined”.
The institute has a history of funding controversial research – such as a study extolling the benefits of sweatshops supplying multinationals for those employed in them – while its statements on climate change largely downplay the threats of the environmental crisis. It is a partner in the Atlas network of thinktanks, which acts as an umbrella for free-market and libertarian institutions, whose funders have included tobacco firms, ExxonMobil and the Koch brothers. Our questions to the AIER about its relationship to the three signatories went unanswered, but it has posted a number of articles about the declaration and herd immunity on its website.
These are not the names one would associate with sound public health policies. But the trio of scientists who fronted the declaration were able to put the weight of the world’s most prestigious academic institutions behind their statements – Stanford, Harvard and Oxford – giving the declaration a sheen of respectability. The views of these scientists about lockdown and the pursuit of herd immunity are no doubt sincerely held (though, notably, not published in any peer-reviewed scientific articles), but they are falling into a trap set by the right.
Rightwing free-market foundations and institutions have long attempted to savage the public reputation of well-intentioned policies such as those aimed at curbing ecological threats and limiting smoking. Some of the tactics these organisations have used in the past are those we see at play in the Great Barrington declaration: discredit the scientific consensus, spread confusion about what the right response is and sow the seeds of doubt. It seems that lockdown restrictions aimed at bringing the virus under control are merely the latest target in this rightwing stealth campaign.
The science is clear: attaining herd immunity to coronavirus via uncontrolled infection is a fringe view, peddled by a minority with no evidence to back up their position. What’s less certain is the political and economic interests that lie behind this declaration. Let the debate begin on those.
---
Looks like Koch is up to his old tricks again.
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Looks like Sweden's "herd immunity" not so successful after all...
Quote:
Sweden sets new ‘absolutely necessary’ Covid-19 restrictions, limits public gatherings to 8 people
16 Nov, 2020 15:29
The Swedish government has announced new coronavirus restrictions will come into force for four weeks to limit socializing in the run-up to Christmas, amid soaring infections and falling compliance with current guidelines.
In a digital press conference on Monday, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven said there had been concerning developments in the spread of Covid-19 in Sweden and that new restrictions are needed.
From November 24, gatherings of more than eight people will be banned for a month. The previous limit was 300 people.
Lofven called on Swedes to do their “duty” and take “responsibility” in slowing the spread of the virus. He also told people not to attend parties or dinners and to refrain from visiting the gym or cinema.
“These are very intrusive measures that are unparalleled in our history, but they are absolutely necessary to limit the infection,” the PM said.
This spring we saw a great compliance. Advice and recommendations were enough for most people to keep their distance and cancel plans. Now compliance is lower.
Lofven said the ban on group gatherings was justified because of rising Covid-19 cases, and that the guidance outlined by the health authorities was no longer being taken as seriously by some people. As a result, Sweden needed to move from recommending social distancing to bans.
The PM reiterated his government’s strategy in holding off on the more strident measures put in place elsewhere in Europe, claiming “we don't believe in a total lockdown, we believe the measures being implemented in total will have an effect.”
Last week, the country moved to ban the sale of alcohol after 10pm.
Sweden received a lot of international attention earlier in the year when it chose not to lockdown the country in response to the first wave of the coronavirus, unlike many other nations.
However, subsequent research showed Sweden suffered a very large number of deaths, taking into account its population size. Neighboring countries, such as Finland, had been considerably more successful in preventing fatalities.
Research from John Hopkins University highlights that Finland has recorded 6.69 deaths per 100,000 from Covid-19, whilst Sweden has registered 60.53 fatalities per 100,000.
https://www.rt.com/news/506879-sweden-covid19-restrictions-infections-
groups/
And indeed, according to divoc-91, on a per-capita basis Sweden is right up there with the USA.
https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Looks like Sweden's "herd immunity" not so successful after all...
Quote:Apparently because ...
Sweden sets new ‘absolutely necessary’ Covid-19 restrictions, limits public gatherings to 8 people
... concerning developments in the spread of Covid-19 in Sweden and that new restrictions are needed
Quote:
compliance is lower.
Quote:
... subsequent research showed Sweden suffered a very large number of deaths, taking into account its population size. Neighboring countries, such as Finland, had been considerably more successful in preventing fatalities.
Research from John Hopkins University highlights that Finland has recorded 6.69 deaths per 100,000 from Covid-19, whilst Sweden has registered 60.53 fatalities per 100,000.
Quote:
And indeed, according to divoc-91, on a per-capita basis Sweden is right up there with the USA.
https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/
Yeah, sorry to say I stopped looking at Sweden a long time ago when I realized they had a lot of deaths per capita and their model couldn't be applied very generally anyway.
But anyway, going to the 91-DIVOC link, it looks like Sweden's exponential 'cases' rise began roughly 77 days ago (11 weeks), which would put it at early September, when the weather starts to get cooler and school resumes.
And as night inevitably follows day, 'deaths' follows 'cases', though timing and intensity vary over place and time. Looking at Sweden's 91-DIVOC curves again, the exponential rise in 'deaths' started about 35 days ago (5 weeks).
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The right-wing case for Sweden’s pandemic response has completely collapsed
https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/right-wing-case-swedens-pandemic
-response-has-completely-collapsed
Right-wing media have championed Sweden’s “low-scale” approach to the coronavirus pandemic as an alternative to stricter government mandates deployed in the United States. On Fox News, pundits argued that Sweden’s policies would allow its population to swiftly reach “herd immunity” and questioned why the U.S. was “locking down” instead. Now that country is rushing to tighten restrictions following rapid increases in cases, hospitalizations, and deaths that are far in excess of those of its neighbors.
Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Lofven announced on Monday a reduction in the limit on public gatherings from 50 people to eight, citing lack of voluntary compliance with health recommendations to the public, after last week announcing plans to ban alcohol sales after 10 p.m. nationwide. “It is a clear and sharp signal to every person in our country as to what applies in the future,” he said at a press conference. “Don’t go to the gym, don’t go the library, don’t have dinner out, don’t have parties — cancel!”
The country’s COVID-19 caseload has spiked dramatically in recent weeks, vastly outpacing its neighbors and approaching that of the U.S., and hospitalizations and fatalities have inevitably followed.
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Covid-19: Sweden's herd immunity strategy has failed, hospitals inundated
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-swedens-herd-immunity-strate
gy-has-failed-hospitals-inundated/N5DXE42OZJOLRQGGXOT7WJOLSU/
With numbers exploding, Prime Minister Stefan Lofven has been forced to swallow his pride and admit that he got it wrong.
---
Just like the US and Russia, except their leaders never admit when they're wrong.
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Thanks for agreeing with Signy and me.
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Quote:Back at 'cha, Russian trolls.
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Thanks for agreeing with Signy and me.
It's fun to watch your fail trainwreck.
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Monday, November 16, 2020 1:08 PM
Quote:Monday, November 16, 2020 8:05 PM
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Looks like Sweden's "herd immunity" not so successful after all...
Quote:Thanks for agreeing with Signy and me.
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
it looks like Sweden's exponential 'cases' rise began roughly 77 days ago ... the exponential rise in 'deaths' started about 35 days ago ...
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Thanks for agreeing with Signy and I.
FIFY
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Nope.
Remove the name Signy, since it makes no difference to the grammar.
What is grammatical? Thanks for agreeing with I? Or, thanks for agreeing with me?
https://www.wikihow.com/Choose-Between-%22I%22-and-%22Me%22-Correctly
But THANKS for correcting me, and being wrong! ( ... just because you're in a shit-fit about COVID-19. 
)
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OK Karen.
Fuck your Covid.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Who's scared of any of that?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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I apologize to everyone for starting a thread to keep up with facts about SARS-COV-2, and driving JACKAREN over the edge with too much reality.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
OK Karen.
Fuck your Covid.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
SIX, stop being a dick. If you can't discuss the topic without name-calling, then you obviously can't discuss the topic because you have nothing to say.
Stop being like WISHY, REAVERBOT, SECOND etc. You're better than that. Usually.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
#WEARAMASK
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Quote:Oh, the irony!
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
OK Karen.
Fuck your Covid.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
SIX, stop being a dick. If you can't discuss the topic without name-calling, then you obviously can't discuss the topic because you have nothing to say.
Stop being like WISHY, REAVERBOT, SECOND etc. You're better than that. Usually.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
#WEARAMASK
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Seems like its done, the admitted the flaw in this strategy
Although I would not be surprised to see if some of the West in some non-official off the record strategy, adopts some kind of herd strategy maybe for immunity among healthy people in the schools or University / College ... Sweden has reversed the decision maybe to save face after a year long disaster?
Why is Finland coping so well with the coronavirus crisis?
https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-finland-sweden-role-model/a-55664117
Sweden reports record daily cases; Madrid to seal itself from other regions for 10 days
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/nov/20/coronavirus-live-ne
ws-china-has-given-1m-people-sinopharm-vaccine-us-cdc-warns-against-thanksgiving-travel?page=with:block-5fb7da578f08f7cc12bd8cec
Sweden introduces tighter restrictions to halt surging coronavirus cases
https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/sweden-introduces-tighter-restric
tions-to-halt-surging-coronavirus-cases/ar-BB1aZF5k
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
OK Karen.
Fuck your Covid.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
SIX, stop being a dick. If you can't discuss the topic without name-calling, then you obviously can't discuss the topic because you have nothing to say.
I've already said everything that needs to be said on the topic, and she's the one attacking me. Take a look at the timeline on the three threads regarding the issue last night. She threw the first insult.
Kiki doesn't need to be bringing that shit into the garden.
Covid is bullshit. She can keep her paranoid delusions in with the rest of the thrash threads on this board.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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These are the groups in Sweden that have been worst affected by the coronavirus
https://www.thelocal.se/20210323/these-are-the-groups-in-sweden-that-h
ave-been-worst-affected-by-the-coronavirus/
Sweden registers 7,822 new COVID-19 cases, 17 deaths
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-cases/swe
den-registers-7822-new-covid-19-cases-17-deaths-on-thursday-idUSKBN2BV1QY
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Going back to the trusty 91-DIVOC site, the most useful metric I can think of is the total per capita deaths, since we're talking about the effect of a policy over time.
There, Sweden is in the global top 25 though at the bottom of that ranking. Being in the top global 25 however isn't a thing to be proud of.
At a relative scale of 138.1, it's faring better than the US at 170.5, but worse than Argentina at 127.6
But Sweden has many demographic advantages not shared by many other countries, especially the fact that 1/3 of its population lives in single-person housing and many of its elderly live in assisted living or long-term care facilities. *And once those facilities were locked-down, it's fatality rate improved.) So there's far less overall inter-generational transmission from multiple people/ generations living together. In addition it has a relatively young population of relatively fit people, and a world-class comprehensive healthcare system.
To better gauge Sweden's success - or failure - you need to compare it to other similar countries like Denmark, Norway, Finland, and Iceland.
Sweden 131.8
Denmark 41.9
Finland 15.7
Norway 12.7
Iceland 7.96
Denmark seems to suffer from its close association with the EU, while Iceland has the additional advantage of being an island, and easily isolated.
Anyway, by the metrics of comparison to similar countries, Sweden's policy looks more like a failure than a success.
http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/
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Oct 13, 2021 numbers
Deaths per million (Total deaths) New cases Serious/Critical
Sweden: 1,466 (14,926) 799* 24 *according to SVT.se
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/senaste-nytt-om-coronaviruset
Denmark: 460 (2,676) 767* 16 *of 56,271 tests (1.36%);
Fully vacc. 4,393,002 (75.09% of pop.), 1st dose: 4,464,785 (76.32%)
Finland: 200 (1,109) 502 36
Norway: 161 (884) 363 16
Iceland: 96 (33) 48 1 - Time to discuss further relaxation, PM says
Sweden extends pause of Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine in young people under 30 due to concerns the shot causes rare heart inflammation
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10116783/Sweden-extends-pau
se-Modernas-COVID-19-vaccine-young-people-30.html
Sweden, Norway Lifting COVID Restrictions Spark Reactions as Pundits Want End to Mandates
https://www.newsweek.com/sweden-norway-lifting-covid-restrictions-spar
k-reactions-pundits-want-end-mandates-1634916
History of the Corona virus or Covid -19 in Sweden
Quote:
16 January, the Public Health Agency of Sweden issued a press release highlighting the discovery of the novel coronavirus, and the agency monitoring the situation. The risk of spread to Sweden was described as "very low" as there was yet no evidence that the virus could spread between humans, but they recommended that individuals developing cough or fever after visiting Wuhan should seek medical care, and asked for healthcare professionals to be observant.
On 31 January 2020, the first Swedish case was confirmed in a woman in Jönköping who had travelled to Sweden directly from Wuhan, China, on 24 January 2020. The case was fully isolated and there are no reports of further spread. It is believed that the virus could have reached Sweden as early as December 2019, when several individuals sought care at a primary care clinic in Svärdsjö, Falun Municipality, with signs of respiratory disease, as all of them had been in contact with an individual with a recent travel history to Wuhan, and later tested positive for antibodies against the disease. There is however no evidence of further spread in connection with those early cases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Sweden#Outbreak_of_
a_novel_coronavirus_disease
The second confirmed case was diagnosed at Sahlgrenska University Hospital, Gothenburg, on 26 February 2020, after a man who had recently returned from northern Italy following the outbreak in the country had developed symptoms. With five additional cases confirmed on 27 February, the Public Health Agency put out a statement that these cases were all related to travel to high-risk zones and that there was no evidence of community transmission. Disease control measures, including extensive contact tracing, turned up over 200 travel-related cases in the following weeks, all with connection to confirmed cases or travel to high risk regions. Many of those who tested positive for the virus during this early stage of the outbreak in Sweden had been infected while on vacation in Italy during the one-week spring break in late February.
During the four-week period from February to March in which the spring break takes place in different areas of Sweden, around one million Swedes (about one tenth of the total population) had travelled abroad. Testing was initially primarily done on individuals who had developed symptoms after travelling from the areas hardest hit by the outbreak, such as China, Iran, northern Italy, Tyrol and South Korea, or those with pneumonia of unknown cause. Subsequent whole genome sequencing studies carried out by the Public Health Agency proved that disease control measures including isolation and contact tracing had been largely successful in preventing the infection to spread from Italy.
Notable Swedes who have died of Covid-19
Radio presenter Kerstin Behrendtz died on 28 March 2020 from COVID-19. She had been diagnosed with the disease on 23 March 2020, and had been ill since about a week before that with cold symptoms. She spent a week in intensive care receiving re
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Police in Brussels crackdown on demonstrators protesting against Covid mandates.
https://twitter.com/ElectionWiz/status/1467517653203968001
Sweden confirms first case of Omicron coronavirus variant
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/271831652/sweden-confirms-first-ca
se-of-omicron-coronavirus-variant
Norway versus Sweden: A case study in COVID-19 response
https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/norway-and-sweden/125378/
Sweden ready to reimpose Covid-19 measures
https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/sweden-ready-to-reimpose-covid-19-mea
sures
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In the end, you need to look at results.
Sweden's total number of deaths per 100,000 is 150.
In comparison, Norway (Sweden's closest demographic, cultural and geographic neighbor) the total number of deaths per 100,000 is less than 25.
And in the end, Sweden had to change its policy anyway.
And SIX, speaking from some alternate universe of his own creation, will once again insist that "nobody ever died of Covid". 
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And SIX, speaking from some alternate universe of his own creation, will once again insist that "nobody ever died of Covid".
It's this universe. There is no Mandela effect happening.
You'll see.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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Quote:Uh huh. This is the universe where Trump won the election.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And SIX, speaking from some alternate universe of his own creation, will once again insist that "nobody ever died of Covid".
It's this universe. There is no Mandela effect happening.
You'll see.
And there's no such thing as HIV either.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Uh huh. This is the universe where Trump won the election.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And SIX, speaking from some alternate universe of his own creation, will once again insist that "nobody ever died of Covid".
It's this universe. There is no Mandela effect happening.
You'll see.
And there's no such thing as HIV either.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Trump did win the election. Mail-in fraud election was fraud. I see you using the "*" when referring to Biden* all the time too.
Nobody I have ever known in my life knows anybody who has ever had AIDS. It was bullshit to scare kids.
Covid-19 is a fucking joke. You all are the punchline.
--------------------------------------------------
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I know someone who has AIDS. He was a co-worker. In fact, he caught when I was still working, and I talked to him about how he got it (being foolish in SF), his initial symptoms and subsequent treatment. (People used to talk to me about all kinds of things ... their marriage, their love-lives, politics, money... I'm pretty unflappable so I heard all kinds of stuff.)
AFA Covid is concerned, my across-the-street neighbors had it and recovered, but two people who I knew personally ... met and talked to face-to-face at one time ... died of it. One was elderly but still functioning ... heart, kidneys, liver etc all functioning and in no danger of immediate death, but frail. The other was a robust home health aide, younger than me, very opionated and energetic, who (btw) refused to wear a mask or take other precautions. She was a denialist, like you. Well,she didn't believe in Covid, but I guess it believed in her! And, of course, I know plenty of people who know people who died of it, so I heard about it second-hand from neighbors etc.
Since you hardly know anybody and are practically a recluse, don't make your lack of personal experience be the foundation of your knowldege, bc then you're working from an extremely limited set.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Don't pull that bullshit on me about my reclusive lifestyle NOW.
I wasn't always this way. Far from it, in fact. And I have branched out significantly since I sobered up.
That is not an argument.
AIDS isn't real. Nobody dies of Covid-19.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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I'm not making fun of your recluseive lifestyle. You KNEW more people, but ... did you keep up with them? Stay in touch since you left work?
Your contacts since Covid began have been very limited. And, really, do you talk about anything in depth with anyone?
That was the great thing about work: I got a chance to speak with people from- literally- all over the world. All kinds. The one thing they had in common was that they were all educated in science, engineering, or law. Kept up with a lot of them Keep up with the family, too. Chat with ALL of my neighbors when I'm out walking the dog, and with other dog-walkers, living nearby or not. Chat with the grocery clerks.
Not by nature sociable, but I had to become since I was a supervisor (Can't be a good supervisor and a total introvert at the same time!)
I hear all kinds of things.
But the people that I can attest who died of Covid I knew PERSONALLY. The people with AIDS, I know PERSONALLY.
Anyway, you've never seen an electron, but it's still a useful concept, right?
Don't limit yourself to such a narrow scope, especially bc of ideology. It's one thing to be a skeptic it's another to be completely closed minded.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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You know people who got sick, certainly. You know people who died, certainly.
You didn't know anybody with AIDS because AIDS is not real.
You didn't know anybody who died of Covid-19 because nobody dies of Covid-19.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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/snicker
"Just like all of the other bullshit you've posted for years, saying something a million times doesn't make it true."
That's a quote from you.
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Quote:On what do you base this?
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You know people who got sick, certainly. You know people who died, certainly.
You didn't know anybody with AIDS because AIDS is not real.
You didn't know anybody who died of Covid-19 because nobody dies of Covid-19.
Do you accept that people die of "the flu" every year? Even if it's not very common, do you think that happens?
Do you accept that "the flu", which mutates every year or even every month, can at times achieve a particularly deadly form, like the Spanish flu of 1917-1918?
So what puts THIS virus in such a special category? Because it's a "coronavirus"?
Do you accept that this particular virus may have been deliberately modified to make it more lethal? And that therefore it may not act like "just a cold" but like something else?
AFAIK there is no such thing as a completely innocuous or completely deadly virus. People have even recovered from HIV and Ebola, and people HAVE died of "the common cold". It's matter of degree, not absolutes.
So if there is a formerly healthy person and they catch Covid and die... how did they die? What's the mechanism? Is it just coincidence?
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Speaking of deliberate modification...
Quote:
On The Quasispecies Origins Of SARS-CoV-2's Enigmatic Furin-Cleavage Site
Monday, Dec 06, 2021 - 09:00 PM
Via Harvard2TheBigHouse.Substack.com,
A Grin Without a Cat
Bottling-Up the Quasispecies Origins of SARS-CoV-2’s Enigmatic Furin-Cleavage Site.
From the co-author of the first peer-reviewed paper examining a laboratory origin for SARS-CoV-2, as well as its addendum, which formally linked the H1N1 Spanish Flu pandemic strain release of 1977 to gain-of-function research.
Although it started as a point of obscure technical reference back in early 2020 as our ongoing pandemic was still in the early stages of spreading its now-ubiquitous wings, it’s now nearly two years later and debates are still raging about the origins and relevance of SARS-CoV-2’s notorious furin-cleavage site, or FCS.
This four-base amino-acid insert immediately drew the attention of the Sirotkin & Sirotkin father-and-son team as they were working on their paper covering the possible laboratory-engineered origins of the COVID-19 Pandemic, which was submitted back in April 2020, long before anyone else was discussing any of this with meaningful scientific detail:
The genetic signatures in question includes two distinctive features possessed by SARS-CoV-2's spike-protein: the unique sequence in the receptor binding domain (RBD), a region known to be critical for SARS-CoV-2's utilization of human angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE2), which is the cell surface receptor used by both SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 for fusion with target cells and subsequent cell entry. The second feature is the presence of a polybasic furin cleavage site, which is also known as a multibasic cleavage site (MBS)—a four amino acid insertion with limited sequence flexibility—within the coronavirus's novel spike-protein, that is not found in SARS-CoV or other lineage B coronaviruses.
This furin cleavage site, which is poly or multibasic by definition since its composed of multiple basic amino acids, is an important virulence feature observed to have been acquired by fusion proteins of avian influenza viruses and Newcastle Disease Virus either grown under experimental conditions or isolated from commercial animal farms—settings that mimic the conditions of serial laboratory passage.
In fact, no influenza virus with a furin cleavage site has ever been found [to originate] in nature, and it is a feature that has been thoroughly investigated in the literature since it appears to allow the influenza viruses that carry it to establish a systemic multiorgan infection using different cell types including nerve cells, is correlated with high pathogenicity, and also plays a key role in overcoming the species barrier.
More generally, despite the fact that not all serially passed viruses have demonstrated an increase in pathogenicity, the fact remains that every highly pathogenic avian influenza virus, defined by having a furin cleavage site, has either been found on commercial poultry farms that create the pseudo-natural conditions necessary for serial passage, or created in laboratories with gain-of-function serial passage experiments.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:On what do you base this?
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You know people who got sick, certainly. You know people who died, certainly.
You didn't know anybody with AIDS because AIDS is not real.
You didn't know anybody who died of Covid-19 because nobody dies of Covid-19.
Do you accept that people die of "the flu" every year? Even if it's not very common, do you think that happens?
Yes. Of course. People die of the flu.
Except for 2020. Nobody died of the flu in 2020 if you believe the labcoats. It was all Covid-19 deaths.
Quote:
Do you accept that "the flu", which mutates every year or even every month, can at times achieve a particularly deadly form, like the Spanish flu of 1917-1918?
Yes I do. I can't speak for 1917. That might be just as much of a myth as anything else we read in history books, and easily politicized today just like everything else is.
It makes no sense for a virus to mutate into a more deadly form. I'm sure it happens, because they're dumb, simple little things... but those mutations die off quickly after killing their hosts too quickly and make room for the ones that play nicer with the host bodies.
Also, in 1920, the average life expectancy in America was only 53.9 years. I doubt very much that the Spanish Flu would have done nearly as well as it supposedly did 100 years ago if it were what we were dealing with now.
Quote:
So what puts THIS virus in such a special category? Because it's a "coronavirus"?
Nope. It's because of the Media lies, the Establishment lies, the medical "professional" lies, the billions upon billions of dollars that have been made (not just by the medical and pharmaceutical communities, politicians, and the media, but also big businesses worldwide that have all but destroyed what's left of small businesses), and the tyranny of varying degrees under every rock.
Mostly the tyranny.
Quote:
Do you accept that this particular virus may have been deliberately modified to make it more lethal? And that therefore it may not act like "just a cold" but like something else?
I'm more worried that the "cure" has.
Quote:
AFAIK there is no such thing as a completely innocuous or completely deadly virus. People have even recovered from HIV and Ebola, and people HAVE died of "the common cold". It's matter of degree, not absolutes.
So if there is a formerly healthy person and they catch Covid and die... how did they die? What's the mechanism? Is it just coincidence?
Nobody who is completely healthy died WITH Covid.
Nobody of any varying degree of health died OF Covid.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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Quote:So even viruses don't have a high fatality rate do kill people.
6IXSTRINGJACK:
You know people who got sick, certainly. You know people who died, certainly.
You didn't know anybody with AIDS because AIDS is not real.
You didn't know anybody who died of Covid-19 because nobody dies of Covid-19.
SIGNY: On what do you base this?
Do you accept that people die of "the flu" every year? Even if it's not very common, do you think that happens?
SIX: Yes. Of course. People die of the flu.
How? How do these viruses kill some people?
Quote:I've never read that, and I follow this pretty closely. I think you're making shit up again, just like you "misquote" KIKI.
SIX: Except for 2020. Nobody died of the flu in 2020 if you believe the labcoats. It was all Covid-19 deaths.
Quote:it's too bad you're so ignorant of history, bc you'd know that this has been a regular feature of history across the world, long before it could have ever been politicized bc ofCovid.
SIGNY: Do you accept that "the flu", which mutates every year or even every month, can at times achieve a particularly deadly form, like the Spanish flu of 1917-1918?
SIX: Yes I do. I can't speak for 1917. That might be just as much of a myth as anything else we read in history books, and easily politicized today just like everything else is.
Quote:You expect viruses, and evolution, to make sense? Evolution is all about randomness and selection, not purpose and goals.
SIX: It makes no sense for a virus to mutate into a more deadly form.
Quote:You don't see the Spanish flu around anymore, do you?
SIX: I'm sure it happens, because they're dumb, simple little things... but those mutations die off quickly after killing their hosts too quickly and make room for the ones that play nicer with the host bodies.
Quote:huh?
SIX: Also, in 1920, the average life expectancy in America was only 53.9 years. I doubt very much that the Spanish Flu would have done nearly as well as it supposedly did 100 years ago if it were what we were dealing with now.
Quote:So, you're letting your view of reality be determined by the media?? Bc you're so oppositional?
SIGNY: So what puts THIS virus in such a special category? Because it's a "coronavirus"?
SIX: Nope. It's because of the Media lies, the Establishment lies, the medical "professional" lies, the billions upon billions of dollars that have been made (not just by the medical and pharmaceutical communities, politicians, and the media, but also big businesses worldwide that have all but destroyed what's left of small businesses), and the tyranny of varying degrees under every rock.
Quote:In other words, you're so hyper focused on ancillary anxieties that you can't fully evaluate the virus itself.
SIGNY: Do you accept that this particular virus may have been deliberately modified to make it more lethal? And that therefore it may not act like "just a cold" but like something else?
SIX: I'm more worried that the "cure" has.
Quote:Because....HOW? Yanno, repeating something a million times doesn't make it true. And you seem to be avoiding the question.
SIGNY: AFAIK there is no such thing as a completely innocuous or completely deadly virus. People have even recovered from HIV and Ebola, and people HAVE died of "the common cold". It's matter of degree, not absolutes.
So if there is a formerly healthy person and they catch Covid and die... how did they die? What's the mechanism? Is it just coincidence?
SIX: Nobody who is completely healthy died WITH Covid.
Nobody of any varying degree of health died OF Covid.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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You're running around in circles trying to justify the fact that you got a vaccine and you got your daughter vaccinated.
At the end of the day, one of two things will come of that.
I hope you made the right choice and really, truly balanced out the ROI of making such a rash decision before any real testing had been done.
I can no longer have any legitimate conversation with you on this issue because you put your own life and the life of your daughter's in the hands of people who you won't deny lie to you every day about any topic outside of this one particular virus. You have to believe that you made the correct decision now.
Good luck to the both of you.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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You're so hyper-focused on "the media" you can't seem to understand that there's literally decades on decades and an entire planet-full of information out there that isn't "the media".
And basic biology books written before you were born, with information that's still valid today.
And decades of research on up to the present from literally around the globe that has nothing to do with "the media".
Or the death certificates of hundreds of thousands of people written by tens of thousands of doctors who, believe it or not, are NOT all completely and totally being run like robots by a global conspiracy.
Or the experiences of personal friends, family, and acquaintances, none of whom are "the media", some going back decades before the supposed global "the media" conspiracy got going, on up to the present.
And these things don't cease to exist just because you refuse to recognize reality.
Just like all of the other bullshit you've posted for years, saying something a million times doesn't make it true.
That's a quote from you.
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Quote:More bullshit from SIX.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You're running around in circles trying to justify the fact that you got a vaccine and you got your daughter vaccinated.
At the end of the day, one of two things will come of that.
I hope you made the right choice and really, truly balanced out the ROI of making such a rash decision before any real testing had been done.
I can no longer have any legitimate conversation with you on this issue because you put your own life and the life of your daughter's in the hands of people who you won't deny lie to you every day about any topic outside of this one particular virus. You have to believe that you made the correct decision now.
Good luck to the both of you.
SIX, I'm not trying to "justify" anything.
This is like a re-hash of the arguments weused to have with CTS about vaccines. The central tennet of the reasonsing behind vaccines is this:
How can you, or anyone, say that being exposed to a PORTION of a virus is any more dangerous than being exposed to the full Monty?
Answer: You can't. Not unless you're a completely illogical boob.
YOU'RE the one trying to justify YOUR stance, by making the ridiculous, universal claim that "nobody" ever died of Covid, when even YOU admit that people, do, indeed die of relatively innocuous viruses.
IF people's immune systems were always fully-functional, IF people were always completely healthy, nobody would ever die of ANY virus. Or cancer, or bacterial illnesses like cholera, or any other disease that the immune and repair systems can handle.
But people's immune systems AREN'T always fully functional. Sometimes they don't respond fully and allow the disease to run rampant. Sometimes they go haywire and themselves become the problem. And people AREN'T always fully healthy. (Not even you.) People are often born with one sort of defect or another. Damage accumulates with time. People age. Repair mechanisms get creaky.
One day, you too will become damaged enough to be not fully functional. And you will die of SOMETHING, maybe even an innocuous virus like "the flu", and become one of those statistics.
****
Diseases are pathogenic. They cause damage in various organs, and just like cholera causes damage to the lining of the intestines, Covid19 causes damage in the lining of blood vessels and other organs. https://evonmedia.org/how-covid-19-harms-the-heart/ They've even pinpointed which 5 proteins (of the 29 that make up the virus) actually do the damage.
To keep repeating the patently ridiculous statement that "nobody ever died of Covid" reveals that you have a diseased mental state which is immune to facts and given to extreme, emotion-driven beliefs. Without being able to accept facts, there is no cure for your particular delusion.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Okay. To summarize your stupid position:
The virus can't kill anyone, but the vaccine can.
Nonsense and piffle from SIX.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:Have you and 1kiki ever devised a theory to explain why 6ix writes "Nobody dies of Covid"? It is not because "Nobody dies of Covid" is true. There must be some underlying reason that 6ix hasn't explained. There are theories, not specifically for 6ix, that might explain the psychological origin of a falsehood such as "Nobody dies of Covid":
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Okay. To summarize your stupid position:
The virus can't kill anyone, but the vaccine can.
Nonsense and piffle from SIX.
Why are so many Republicans refusing vaccination? Because Russia is telling them to
https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs-ed-op-0801-covid-disinfo
rmation-russia-20210730-5tz4sglw6jadrajptaeismgifm-story.html
Here Are The Republicans Most Likely To Refuse The Covid-19 Vaccine, Poll Finds
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/07/28/here-are-the-repu
blicans-most-likely-to-refuse-the-covid-19-vaccine-poll-finds/
Topline: Nearly 40% of Republicans are still hesitant about getting the Covid-19 vaccine or refuse to get it, a new Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI)/Interfaith Youth Core (IFYC) poll finds.
Key Facts: A likely group to refuse the Covid-19 vaccine are Republicans who consume far-right television news (46%, up from 31% in March). Republicans who don’t consume any television news at all were likely to reject the Covid-19 vaccine: 24% reject it (23% are hesitant).
Tangent: The poll found Republicans were one of the biggest demographic groups overall to refuse or be hesitant about the vaccine, along with Americans under 50 and rural Americans.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Okay. To summarize your stupid position:
The virus can't kill anyone, but the vaccine can.
Nonsense and piffle from SIX.
https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/11/19/vaers-summary-for-covid-19-vacci
nes-through-11-12-2021/
That might only be the beginning.
Not only wasn't this vaccine tested up to the standards of all other vaccines that were produced and it was rushed to market, but it's new vaccine technology that wasn't tested up to the standards of all older vaccine technology and it was rushed to market.
You're the test.
Meanwhile, anybody who says ANYTHING negative about the vaccination gets shut down, censored or has a big fat "UNSAFE" warning put on their Tweet.
That's what Twitter did to the freakin' American Heart Association when it put a link to this:
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712
If you try to open that link from Twitter, you also get the following popup before it goes to that page:
Quote:
“Warning: this link may be unsafe
The link you are trying to access has been identified by Twitter or our partners as being potentially spammy or unsafe, in accordance with Twitter’s URL Policy. This link could fall into any of the below categories:
- malicious links that could steal personal information or harm electronic devices
-spammy links that mislead people or disrupt their experience
-violent or misleading content that could lead to real-world harm
-certain categories of content that, if posted directly on Twitter, are a violation of the Twitter Rules.”
And in the Social Sphere, Woke Apostle Trevor Noah just put a huge wedge between himself and his fanbase by suggesting that listening to the CEO of Moderna's thoughts on vaccinations and boosters might not be wise because of the obvious impartiality of the voice behind it which will stand to make millions of dollars.
https://deadline.com/2021/12/the-daily-show-trevor-noah-ignites-critic
ism-perceived-anti-vaxx-comments-1234884102/
They're calling him alt-right now. Trevor Noah is alt-right.
Just keep watching these events unfold in real time and maybe eventually you'll start to question your dogmatic beliefs.
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Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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So, you think SOME things are true and accept them on faith, but others aren't.
For example, I'm sure you'll dismiss these studies that also show an increase in severe inflammatory biomarkers from COVID-19 infection itself and which help predict imminent death ... yes, even in healthy children:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7977033/
Role of Cardiac Biomarkers in COVID-19: What Recent Investigations Tell Us?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34260778/
Immunity and inflammatory biomarkers in COVID-19: A systematic review
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8040552/
Inflammatory and Prothrombotic Biomarkers Associated With the Severity of COVID-19 Infection
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33988463/
Utility of inflammatory biomarkers in patients with COVID-19 infections: Bahrain experience
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/STROKEAHA.121.035045
Biomarkers of Coagulation and Inflammation in COVID-19–Associated Ischemic Stroke
https://www.docwirenews.com/abstracts/the-inflammatory-biomarkers-prof
ile-of-hospitalized-patients-with-covid-19-and-its-association-with-patients-outcome-a-single-centered-study-2/
The inflammatory biomarkers profile of hospitalized patients with COVID-19 and its association with patient's outcome: A single centered study
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34124694/
Inflammatory biomarkers in COVID-19-associated multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children, Kawasaki disease, and macrophage activation syndrome: a cohort study
https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/study-finds-options-to-predict-covi
d-19-severity-risk-in-children
Study Finds Options to Predict COVID-19 Severity Risk in Children
Because hey, what's a little severe inflammation in people with COVID-19 who'll then go on to actually die in the short-term - right?
Well, that's one clue as to what's wrong with you.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
So, you think SOME things are true and accept them on faith, but others aren't.
For example, I'm sure you'll disagree with these studies that also shows an increase in severe inflammatory biomarkers from COVID-19 infection itself ... yes, even in healthy children:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7977033/
Role of Cardiac Biomarkers in COVID-19: What Recent Investigations Tell Us?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34260778/
Immunity and inflammatory biomarkers in COVID-19: A systematic review
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8040552/
Inflammatory and Prothrombotic Biomarkers Associated With the Severity of COVID-19 Infection
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33988463/
Utility of inflammatory biomarkers in patients with COVID-19 infections: Bahrain experience
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/STROKEAHA.121.035045
Biomarkers of Coagulation and Inflammation in COVID-19–Associated Ischemic Stroke
https://www.docwirenews.com/abstracts/the-inflammatory-biomarkers-prof
ile-of-hospitalized-patients-with-covid-19-and-its-association-with-patients-outcome-a-single-centered-study-2/
The inflammatory biomarkers profile of hospitalized patients with COVID-19 and its association with patient's outcome: A single centered study
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34124694/
Inflammatory biomarkers in COVID-19-associated multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children, Kawasaki disease, and macrophage activation syndrome: a cohort study
https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/study-finds-options-to-predict-covi
d-19-severity-risk-in-children
Study Finds Options to Predict COVID-19 Severity Risk in Children
But hey, what's a little severe inflammation in people with COVID-19 who'll actually die in the short-term - right?
Well, that's one clue as to what's wrong with you.
My problem is that all of the mainstream social media sites will not block any of those links you just posted, but it will block links that dare say anything negative about the vaccines. Even from the American Heart Association. Even from Leftist darling Trevor Noah.
Pure hypocrisy on display, and you've succumbed to the WMD scam here. First because you were terrified into it, and now because you're all in on a vaccine that just might end up killing you... or worse.
You're just as fucking dumb as anybody you ever gave shit here to about falling for the WMDs.
I'd argue even more so, since unlike you, anybody who wasn't in the military and bought into the WMDs didn't put their life in somebody else's hands by following the narrative.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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Quote:6ix, there is some psychological factor driving you on and on because, usually, you're lazy. What is making your Carousel go around and around, 6ix? In other words, what is your real problem? It is not any of the reasons -- hypocrisy, for one -- you mention. What is really goading you to keep writing?
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
My problem is . . .
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:6ix, there is some psychological factor driving you on and on because, usually, you're lazy. What is making your Carousel go around and around, 6ix? In other words, what is your real problem? It is not any of the reasons -- hypocrisy, for one -- you mention. What is really goading you to keep writing?
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
My problem is . . .
Lazy? That's the best you can come up with?
You do realize that in order to get even a hit of an angry response out of somebody you have to be speaking at least a little bit of truth in your insults, don't you?
Try again, buddy.
In the meantime, what psychological disorder prompts you to continue to post your bullshit here everyday?
I don't really care, and I wouldn't believe anything you said if you bothered answering it. Just throwing your dumb question right back at you, because it's something that you might want to start asking yourself when you look in a mirror.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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Quote:I'm sure it would fill a book.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
My problem is ...
Quote:I don't go to "social media sites" for my information - do you? It sure seems like it.
... that all of the mainstream social media sites ...
Quote:I found your link just fine with duckduck just using general search terms. I had zero problem finding it again .. and again ... and again ...
... will not block any of those links you just posted, but it will block links that dare say anything negative about the vaccines.
Quote:I have no idea what you're claiming. I had ZERO problem finding it.
Even from the American Heart Association. Even from Leftist darling Trevor Noah.
Quote:I don't depend on the m$m either, whether it's to tell me what to think, or to tell me what to dismiss out of opposition. I know more about the risks of the vaccine, and the risks of COVID-10, because I go directly to - AND UNDERSTAND - the science.
Pure hypocrisy on display, and you've succumbed to the WMD scam here.
Quote:And you claim we all *know* you never lie.
First because you were terrified into it ...
Well, that's something I DON'T know, because you've lied about me, about many things, repeatedly, and at length, claiming things about me over and over that I've never posted, for which I have opposite evidence, and with zero evidence on your part to back up your lies.
You're a liar, Jack. That's one thing I know for sure about you.
Quote:I dunno - what's worse than dying? I can't think of anything.
... and now because you're all in on a vaccine that just might end up killing you... or worse.
Quote:I'm not dumb, I just look at ALL the facts, unlike you.
You're just as fucking dumb as anybody you ever gave shit here to about falling for the WMDs.
As for you, not only are you dumb, Jack, but you're a liar.
Quote:You're following a narrative, Jack. Blindly, and with the fervor or a religious fanatic.
I'd argue even more so, since unlike you, anybody who wasn't in the military and bought into the WMDs didn't put their life in somebody else's hands by following the narrative.
Just like all of the other bullshit you've posted for years, saying something a million times doesn't make it true.
You're a liar, Jack, and this quote from you is funny.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
You're following a narrative, Jack. Blindly, and with the fervor or a religious fanatic.
No. I'm not.
My thoughts on this issue are my own and haven't changed since this whole thing started. Even if I wanted to find this so-called narrative, it's constantly being scrubbed from the internet. There is no echo-chamber or confirmation bias for my beliefs because your Masters don't wish it to be.
And make no mistake. They became your Masters as soon as you voluntarily took that untested jab.
I didn't bother reading the rest of your reply, because nothing you say has any value or importance, and have devolved into nothing more than what I could get by reading just the headlines of CNN and NYT stories.
You have completely undermined any shred of credibility you once might have had.
Good luck with your vaccine. You're probably going to need it.
And as much as I can't stand the mere existence of you on these boards right now, do know that this will not be I Told You Sos from the bag that I enjoy handing out if you made a terrible and uninformed choice.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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SIX, UNLIKE YOU I actually understand how this vaccine is supposed to work, using science that I learned back in high school. And UNLIKE YOU, I understand that the vaccine represents JUST A PORTION of the entire virus which (for your information) consists of far more than JUST the spike portion of the protein ( i.e. envelope, nucleocapsid, membrane and spike proteins).
So howizzit that a vaccine that represents just A PORTION of the virus is so much more dangerous than the virus itself?
... And this is where you resort to loud sizzles and crackles coming from your brain, and mumbo-jumbo coming from your fingers and onto the screen.
Because ... because... ZZZZZT! .... POP! .... because... POW! ZZZZZZZT!!
Now, I could posit a theory for you, but I'm not going to dig you out of your own hole. And it requires something unlikely, so I'm going to let you cogitate on that for a bit.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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In other words Jack, you still have jack-shit for evidence regarding your lies about me.
Because ... you're a committed liar, as fervent as SECOND in your lies.
Just like all of the other bullshit you've posted for years, saying something a million times doesn't make it true.
This quote. coining from you, is really funny!
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Whatever you say, Tweedle Dee and Tweddle Dipshit.
We're over your fear and tyranny. Nobody gives a shit about Covid anymore.
You'll have to find some other issue to harp on if you want to continue terrorizing other people going forward.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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/snicker
Sure. Just like "nobody" dies of COVID. cough cough ... Post some more made-up lies.
Just like all of the other bullshit you've posted for years, saying something a million times doesn't make it true.
This is a quote from you. You're HI-larious!
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One of the two of us is lying.
HINT: It ain't me.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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Quote:Of course, liars would always lie that they're not lying.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
One of the two of us is lying.
HINT: It ain't me.
I understand you posting about policy and the media. But if you NEVER post anything about the virus or vaccines or statistics again it'll be too soon bc your ignorance is abysmal, and it's not about to change.
/End discussion
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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I already ended the discussion.
You two idiots keep talking.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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Covid-19: Whatever happened to pandemic pariah Sweden?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/127230714/covid19-whatever-
happened-to-pandemic-pariah-sweden
Sweden didn’t seek herd immunity to the coronavirus, top diplomat says
https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-coronavirus-didnt-seek-herd-imm
unity-torbjorn-sohlstrom/amp/
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COVID-19 ‘Herd Immunity’ Possible As Omicron Cases Surge, Experts Say
https://www.ibtimes.com/covid-19-herd-immunity-possible-omicron-cases-
surge-experts-say-3369737
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Corona Plague was Sweden’s controversial ‘herd immunity’ strategy correct all along? Controversial COVID-19 No Lockdown strategy ‘vindicated’
No, the controversial strategy was NOT vindicated.
Sweden's COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 were 150.
Finland's COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 were 30.
Norway's COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 were 25.
Iceland's COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 were 11.
I'd say Sweden's strategy was an abysmal failure compared to the countries that resemble it that followed a different strategy.
https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Corona Plague was Sweden’s controversial ‘herd immunity’ strategy correct all along? Controversial COVID-19 No Lockdown strategy ‘vindicated’
No, the controversial strategy was NOT vindicated.
Sweden's COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 were 150.
Finland's COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 were 30.
Norway's COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 were 25.
Iceland's COVID-19 deaths per 100,000 were 11.
I'd say Sweden's strategy was an abysmal failure compared to the countries that resemble it that followed a different strategy.
https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/
Agreed. Proof of the pudding.
BTW, SIX - Sweden had NO motivation to overstate its deaths due to Covid. If anything, they would want to minimize them in defense of their policies, for public relations purposes.
The fact that EVEN THEY admit to Covid deaths does pretty much prove the case that people do, indeed, die "of" Covid. Not that facts are likely to sway your mind.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
BTW, SIX - Sweden had NO motivation to overstate its deaths due to Covid. If anything, they would want to minimize them in defense of their policies, for public relations purposes.
There's nothing to back up that statement.
They have no reason to keep letting Muslims into their country while their daughters are continually being raped by them, but they still go right on ahead and let them in and even run defense for them by putting people into prison for trying to write stories about it.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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So because Sweden might have lied about muslim terrorism you think they are also lying about Sweden's Corona numbers?
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Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
So because Sweden might have lied about muslim terrorism you think they are also lying about Sweden's Corona numbers?
Sure.
When you lie about one thing, there's no reason for anybody to believe you about another thing other than the inherent need that most have for confirmation bias.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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Signy, I thought for sure you'd gone and done it! Disagreeing with Jack$ merits you being called names!! I bet he had to think more than twice and restrain himself.
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Quote:
They have no reason to keep letting Muslims into their country while their daughters are continually being raped by them, but they still go right on ahead and let them in and even run defense for them by putting people into prison for trying to write stories about it.
You should personally be extremely well-acquainted with a reason why someone would stick with a failed position and even lie about it! For you, as an example, it has to do with never admitting you have anything less than god-like omniscience.
I can image why Sweden would lie about its Muslim problem and pretend there isn't one, because, yanno, otherwise they'd have to admit their policy was wrong. But why would Sweden lie and put out inflated COVID-19 death numbers and prove their COVID-19 policy failed?
"Just like all of the other bullshit you've posted for years, saying something a million times doesn't make it true." - Jack
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Quote:I disagree with SIX a lot, esp about his delusion-like mantra about Covid. I've also pointed out that he has outright lied - or is entirely deluded - about things that you've posted. I guess I also agree with him quite often on other topics.
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Signy, I thought for sure you'd gone and done it! Disagreeing with Jack$ merits you being called names!! I bet he had to think more than twice and restrain himself.
I don't understanf why he's taken such a set against you, since what you and I post is pretty similar in most cases, except I tend to post about foreign policy and geopolitics more often, since it is hubby's abiding interest and we talk about it quite a bit. I wish he'd take a more objective approach to you, but he seems to be in the throes of some great, mistaken grotch. and, as I've noticed, once people's emotuons are activated their objectivity goes to pot.
In fact, that should be a big red flag for anyone: If you find yourself getting emotional, stop.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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The only time I've ever verbally attacked you, Sigs, was when you did so first.
I don't hold grudges though, so you'll notice that outside of that thread I didn't keep it up at all and pretended as though it never even happened. I even stopped posting in that thread or even looking at it, because I didn't want to see if you had replied in a way that would have made me take it a step further. I like you. I've always liked you. And although I don't even remember when we first started communicating here at all, one of my first memories here when I was dragging myself out of my alcohol-coma was defending you, so you must have done something that I really appreciated during my mindless drinking days that stuck in my sub-conscious and made me think of you as a genuinely good person.
Not only is everything I say about Kiki correct and you've got blinders on when it comes to her behavior, but she has ALWAYS been the first one to throw a stone. She's essentially Nilbog, but with about 20 more IQ points and an ability to be a lot more subtle with her constant digs than Nilbog ever would have been capable of. And then half the time, after I've had enough and give her a deserved lashing, she throws out the Female card and tries to hide behind her vagina as if I don't go around calling Ted and Second cunts more than I ever call her names.
Why is it just a consistent thing now? Just like with Nilbog, I've had enough. She's never going to change, and I don't like her as a person. She's used up any of her good will.
If we're going to keep spreading the Legacy Media Covid lies and the psychosis that it's brought to you and Kiki, I'm going to troll the fuck out of it because it's bullshit.
And if I call you a Karen while discussing Covid, don't take it too hard. I'll refer you to this thread:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=64771
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Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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it seems they officially fucked up but might have got some things correctly done?
What Sweden Got Right About COVID
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2022/04/19/what-sweden-got-right-about-c
ovid/
Quote:
The U.S. botched the pandemic—overprotecting kids at low risk of serious illness and under-protecting older Americans.
In this intolerant atmosphere, Sweden’s “light touch,” as it is often referred to by scientists and policy makers, was deemed a disaster. “Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale,” carped The New York Times. Reuters reported, “Sweden’s COVID Infections Among Highest in Europe, With ‘No Sign Of Decrease.’” Medical journals published equally damning reports of Sweden’s folly.
Stockholm Solution
But Sweden seems to have been right. Countries that took the severe route to stem the virus might want to look at the evidence found in a little-known 2021 report by the Kaiser Family Foundation. The researchers found that among 11 wealthy peer nations, Sweden was the only one with no excess mortality among individuals under 75. None, zero, zip.
That’s not to say that Sweden had no deaths from COVID. It did. But it appears to have avoided the collateral damage that lockdowns wreaked in other countries. The Kaiser study wisely looked at excess mortality, rather than the more commonly used metric of COVID deaths. This means that researchers examined mortality rates from all causes of death in the 11 countries before the pandemic and compared those rates to mortality from all causes during the pandemic. If a country averaged 1 million deaths per year before the pandemic but had 1.3 million deaths in 2020, excess mortality would be 30 percent.
Quote:
Even among the elderly, Sweden’s excess mortality in 2020 was lower than that in the U.S., Belgium, Switzerland, the U.K., the Netherlands, Austria, and France. Canada, Germany, and Australia had lower rates than Sweden among people over the age of 70—probably because Sweden failed to limit nursing home visits at the very beginning of the pandemic.
The U.S., by contrast, had the highest excess mortality rate among all 11 countries in the Kaiser study. We also had a stunning number of COVID deaths—more than 1 million. Our lousy rate is probably due to multiple factors, says Jay Bhattacharya, a professor of medicine at Stanford University and senior fellow at the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research.
Last month, the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions voted overwhelmingly to establish an independent panel to investigate the nation’s response to the pandemic, modeled on the much-heralded 9/11 Commission. Such a COVID commission should study Sweden, even if the American medical and public health establishment continues to scoff at this Scandinavian success.
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Just wait until those babies and toddlers become teenagers.
Our "Leadership" just fucked up millions of kids in the head. We have no idea yet what the consequences of Democrat lockdowns are going to be.
--------------------------------------------------
Me: "Remember Covid?"
Useless Idiots: "What's Covid, durr? Russia, Ukraine, Putin, NATO *drool*. DURRRR!!!!"
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New coronavirus from same family as COVID spreading among rodents in Sweden
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/new-coronavirus-from-same-family-as-covid-sp
reading-among-rodents-in-sweden-153246941.html
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Oh the humanity!
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Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus
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The myth of Sweden’s voluntary lockdown
https://unherd.com/thepost/the-myth-of-swedens-voluntary-lockdown/
Mobility data shows that Swedes' behaviour barely changed during the pandemic
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Mine didn't either.
Maybe I have some Sweedish blood in my European Mutt Mix.
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Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.
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