Hydroxychloriquine, The Cure For Wuhan Coronavirus (Fauci Flu)
POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 31, 2024 14:31
VIEWED: 11571
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Quote:There seems to be some discrepancy among claims regarding racism of the Coronavirus.
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
CQ and HCQ both have well-known side effects, since they're medications that've been used for a long time for a number of conditions. Heart arrhythmias is just one of the known side effects. BTW, if you're Black, a study conducted by the US army found you have a 10% chance of having genetics that will make your red blood cells explode when you take these drugs (it's called a G6PD deficiency).
Even quinine - that slightly bitter natural version of the drugs found in tonic water as flavoring - is limited because it can have side effects. But if you want to, you can always get around the low concentration by drinking more tonic water.
I don't think I have seen specifics as to which races, or how they are targeted.
But this info about blacks seems specific. Do you agree this is racist, or would you argue this is not racist?
Shall we assume exploding red blood cells is fatal? Or is there a mitigation available for blacks who have this G6PD deficiency? Is this deficiency only in Blacks? Meaning it relates to their pigmentation? Or due to geneological factors, such as ancestry in Africa, or India, or Australia, or Central America?
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Quote:It's a medical genetic condition. Anyone can have that gene variation, its next most common population are people of white Mediterranean descent. So, it's not restricted to one 'race', it's just a gene variant that can occur in anyone.
I don't think I have seen specifics as to which races, or how they are targeted.
But this info about blacks seems specific. Do you agree this is racist, or would you argue this is not racist?
Quote:It can be. Free hemoglobin floating around in the bloodstream can gum up many organs, including the kidneys.
Shall we assume exploding red blood cells is fatal?
Quote:Once the red cells have exploded the only treatment is to take out the blood and replace the free-hemoglobin clogged plasma with saline. Otherwise, the treatment is to avoid substances that will trigger the problem.
Or is there a mitigation available for blacks who have this G6PD deficiency?
Quote:No, and no.
Is this deficiency only in Blacks? Meaning it relates to their pigmentation?
Quote:... due to genetic characteristics of various populations. The gene variant exist in all peoples, but its percentage is higher in some and lower in others.
Or due to genealogical factors, such as ancestry in Africa, or India, or Australia, or Central America?
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Copied from another thread, I hope nobody minds.
Quote:However:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltextQuote:
Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine, Azithromycin, and Combination in Patients Hospitalized with COVID-19
Highlights
• As of May27, 2020 there are over 1,678,843 confirmed cases of COVID-19 claiming more than 100,000 lives in the Unites States. Currently there is no known effective therapy or vaccine.
• According to a protocol-based treatment algorithm, among hospitalized patients, use of hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with a significant reduction in-hospital mortality compared to not receiving hydroxychloroquine.
• Findings of this observational study provide crucial data on experience with hydroxychloroquine therapy, providing necessary interim guidance for COVID-19 therapeutic practice.
Conclusions and Relevance
In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality. Prospective trials are needed to examine this impact.
Quote:Unscrambling the medical jargon what it means is this: One of the known side effects of HCQ (CQ, and quinine) is serious heart arrhythmias (there are several types). A cardiac arrhythmia is like having the pistons of your car each firing at all different times, or firing far too early, or far too late. Obviously your car won't run that way, and neither will your heart, and neither will you. And the main risk factor for death using HCQ in previous studies was cardiac arrhythmias. The SIGNIFICANT doubling of mortality using HCQ (double the death rate, or more) is what caused previous trials to be halted. All those extra deaths couldn't be ignored.
The combination of hydroxychloroquine?+?azithromycin was reserved for selected patients with severe COVID-19 and with minimal cardiac risk factors. An electrocardiogram (ECK) based algorithm was utilized for hydroxychloroquine use. QTc>500?ms was considered an elevated cardiac risk and consequently hydroxychloroquine was reserved for patients with severe disease with telemetry monitoring and serial QTc checks.
So THIS retrospective study addressed the very real issue of death-dealing arrhythmias, and selected data for patients that were both screened-for and monitored-for adverse cardiac effects.
By preventing all those deaths due to cardiac arrhythmias, the benefits were allowed to prevail.
I'm still left wondering why they don't run a trial with zinc added.
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Quote:... due to genetic characteristics of various populations. The gene variant exist in all peoples, but its percentage is higher in some and lower in others.
Originally posted by 1KIKI:Quote:It's a medical genetic condition. Anyone can have that gene variation, its next most common population are people of white Mediterranean descent. So, it's not restricted to one 'race', it's just a gene variant that can occur in anyone.
I don't think I have seen specifics as to which races, or how they are targeted.
But this info about blacks seems specific. Do you agree this is racist, or would you argue this is not racist?Quote:It can be. Free hemoglobin floating around in the bloodstream can gum up many organs, including the kidneys.
Shall we assume exploding red blood cells is fatal?Quote:Once the red cells have exploded the only treatment is to take out the blood and replace the free-hemoglobin clogged plasma with saline. Otherwise, the treatment is to avoid substances that will trigger the problem.
Or is there a mitigation available for blacks who have this G6PD deficiency?Quote:No, and no.
Is this deficiency only in Blacks? Meaning it relates to their pigmentation?Quote:
Or due to genealogical factors, such as ancestry in Africa, or India, or Australia, or Central America?
Thanks for all this info, I'm not familiar with it all.
Do many folk who have this G6PD deficiency know they do? Does this mean they cannot drink tonic water, gin and tonic?
Is the test for this simple, can be completed quickly? Is this test normally conducted prior to prescribing these medications?
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Quote:There's no US routine neonatal screening for G6PD deficiency as part of a panel of tests the various states do run. Though a Children's Hospital where I once worked did screen neonates as part of its panel of routine neonatal testing, so there may be institutions that do this testing on their own.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Thanks for all this info, I'm not familiar with it all.
Do many folk who have this G6PD deficiency know they do?
Quote:The amount of quinine in tonic water is deliberately kept to low ppm levels specifically to avoid any medical misadventures. Fava beans are a more concerning trigger.
Does this mean they cannot drink tonic water, gin and tonic?
Quote:There are a number of different kinds of tests that use different techniques, are differently sensitive, and cost different amounts. For example, there are screening tests that are quick and cheap but not at all sensitive (they'll only detect a sample that has 10% of less of normal G6PD activity). I've read some indication the military does check before administering drugs that might cause a problem.
Is the test for this simple, can be completed quickly? Is this test normally conducted prior to prescribing these medications?
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Quote:There are a number of different kinds of tests that use different techniques, are differently sensitive, and cost different amounts. For example, there are screening tests that are quick and cheap but not at all sensitive (they'll only detect a sample that has 10% of less of normal G6PD activity). I've read some indication the military does check before administering drugs that might cause a problem.
Originally posted by 1KIKI:Quote:There's no US routine neonatal screening for G6PD deficiency as part of a panel of tests the various states do run. Though a Children's Hospital where I once worked did screen neonates as part of its panel of routine neonatal testing, so there may be institutions that do this testing on their own.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Thanks for all this info, I'm not familiar with it all.
Do many folk who have this G6PD deficiency know they do?Quote:The amount of quinine in tonic water is deliberately kept to low ppm levels specifically to avoid any medical misadventures. Fava beans are a more concerning trigger.
Does this mean they cannot drink tonic water, gin and tonic?Quote:
Is the test for this simple, can be completed quickly? Is this test normally conducted prior to prescribing these medications?
So it is not completely missing, just a percentage deficiency. Much better scenario.
Have you been cooking fava beans?
And getting poisoning from excessive tonic water (quinine) - that is completely separate and unrelated, right?
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I think this will more completely answer your questions.
In sum though - G6PD is an enzyme. Various DNA mutations cause G6PD variations with reduced function. This reduced function is tolerable until ingestion of challenge substances overwhelms the red cells' limited variant-G6PD ability to process those harmful substances into useful substances instead, and the red cells become damaged.
FWIW the ORIGINAL tonic water was actually self-medication with quinine as a 'tonic' to combat malaria. Since then quinine's been adopted as a flavoring in tonic water, where levels are kept in the low ppm range to try and avoid any untoward medical effects. Medically, malaria treatment has moved on from natural quinine through the creation of variations of quinine, such as CQ and HCQ (and there are many others). Quinine has the same effect on red cells as QC and HCQ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose-6-phosphate_dehydrogenase_defici
ency
But to your understanding, G6PD is an enzyme. G6PD deficiency is reduced activity of the enzyme, caused by a few different genetic mutations in the instructions for making the enzyme. Even faulty G6PD has SOME enzymatic activity, but it's reduced below normal.
The genetic instructions for making the G6PD enzyme are found on the X chromosome. Because males have only one X chromosome (males have the XY chromosome pair), if they inherit a faulty X chromosome they display unmitigated G6PD deficiency. Females otoh have the XX pair, so unless both of their X chromosomes have a G6PD mutation, they have at least some amount of well-functioning G6PD enzyme.
So G6PD deficiency ranges from no amount of normal enzyme and reduced G6PD functioning in males, to some amount of normal enzyme in females and up to nearly normal functioning in females.
Having lower-functioning G6PD enzyme is tolerable until something happens that overwhelms the limited G6PD function. Because red blood cells specifically depend on G6PD (and only G6PD) to maintain their membranes, when the faulty G6PD is overwhelmed due to higher levels of challenging chemicals, the red cell membranes become damaged leading to anything from high levels of red cell removal and lowered red cell counts (anemia), to actual breakup of red cells in the bloodstream and the released hemoglobin causing kidney damage.
There are MANY substances that can overwhelm faulty G6PD enzymes, including those found in fava beans; and also many anti-malarials, including nature's original anti-malarial quinine.
Quote:
Triggers
Carriers of the underlying mutation do not show any symptoms unless their red blood cells are exposed to certain triggers, which can be of four main types:
Foods (fava beans is the hallmark trigger for G6PD mutation carriers),
Certain medicines including aspirin, quinine and other antimalarials derived from quinine.
Moth balls (naphthalene)[6]
Stress from a bacterial or viral infection.[7]
To avoid the hemolytic anemia, G6PD carriers have to avoid some drugs and foods.[7]
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I wonder if a lay person can know if they have G6PD. Do they get blood in their urine if their cells explode? Of just a lousy feeling all over, lethargy? Or abdomen just feels sore.
Thanks so much for all the info.
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As I've read, many people will never have symptoms of G6PD deficiency because they'll never be exposed to substances that trigger the problem.
From what I've read, newborns may have jaundice. Jaundice will trigger a search to find the cause, which is how a fair number of cases are detected. Adults may have chronic anemia along with its symptoms, because their red cells are being destroyed faster than the bone marrow can create them. There are a number of clues that this anemia is being caused by red-cell destruction, such as the presence of broken bits of red cells seen under a microscope; the presence of immature red cells in the blood as the bone marrow is releasing them early to try and compensate for the anemia; and a raised bilirubin which is the product of the body metabolizing hemoglobin from destroyed red cells. Once anemia is detected, with or without indication it's being caused by red cell destruction, a search for the cause will happen. (BTW it's a truism that I read many decades ago that anemia in males is extremely rare - though of course it's common in females. And that anemia in males is ALWAYS considered pathological, since there's no 'normal' cause for it.)
And of course if you have a family history of G6PD deficiency it would be something to look for in yourself.
There are some other symptoms here: https://healthjade.net/g6pd-deficiency/
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Here is a post from April 6 in the virus thread, a pertinent, informative post by, of all folk, second:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
The first Covid 19 case diagnosed in New Jersey
www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/magazine/first-coronavirus-patient-new-jers
ey.html
Commentary on the above article: Remdesivir III
Robert Waldmann | April 5, 2020 8:20 pm
https://angrybearblog.com/2020/04/remdesivir-iii.html
The first Covid 19 case diagnosed in New Jersey
Around 3 a.m. on March 10, Balani arrived at the hospital. The medicine had come in, and she did not want to wait until the morning to administer it. With Balani in the room, a nurse woke Cai up so that he could sign the legal papers. Soon after, he was hooked up, intravenously, to the drug.
The next day Cai’s fever, which he’d had for at least nine days, finally broke. Even before he received the remdesivir, his oxygen levels started to stabilize. Now they indicated he was on the mend. He was still so weak in the following days that he could barely speak without exhaustion; every time he tried, he was racked by coughs. But the progress was steady
Chloroquine also ran, It was used for a day while the Remdesivir was in the mail,
Cai’s boss, Dr. George Hall, also made a call, not long after Huang spoke to the infectious-disease doctor on call. He spoke with another doctor on Cai’s caregiving team, a hospitalist named Danit Arad.
[skip]
Hall explained …that the Chinese National Health Commission had just published the seventh edition of guidelines on how to treat coronavirus. It was true that they were based more on clinical experience than on published studies, but he urged Arad to follow some of its protocols, which included prescribing two drugs that were commonly given to patients in China soon after they showed symptoms like shortness of breath: chloroquine, an antiviral drug once used to treat malaria, and Kaletra, another antiviral that had once been used to treat H.I.V.
[skip]
at the time that neither drug had been through extensive clinical trials or had F.D.A. approval. She listened patiently to Hall and expressed her concern that his suggestions did not conform to standard medical procedure or C.D.C. guidelines.
Hall understood the need for evidence-based medicine as well as she did, he told her. But this was life and death.
[skip]
That day, Cai was given chloroquine and Kaletra
Comment: I do not understand the need for “evidence-based medicine” or rather I do not understand how the phrase is used by doctors. There is no evidence that Covid 19 patients (without heart disease) do better without Chloroquine. I learn that “evidence based medicine” does not imply choosing the therapy that a fair balance of evidence suggests is best for the patient. Pharmaceuticals are presumed guilty until proven safe and effective. The evidence is treated as evidence in a criminal trial with the burden of proof on the pharmaceutical.
I have no idea what “standard medical procedure” might mean in the context of Covid 19. it appears that as soon as a new disease is discovered, there is a standard procedure for treating it, which can’t be based on data or evidence.
The story has a happy ending, but it is not reassuring. It also doesn’t surprise me.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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