Joss' fascination with torture ?
POSTED BY: TheSomnambulist
UPDATED: Monday, December 27, 2004 17:15
VIEWED: 35028
PAGE 7 of 13
Quote:I'm afraid zoid will be jealous that I even read a reply that exceeds twenty five lines. More especially as you seem not to have read my short original. So, I'd better stop
Originally posted by ReeQueen:
I am perfectly aware of my inability to be concise, please bear with me....
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Quote:Except that I can't resist this one. Does this sort of TV exist, or are you being ironic across the whole paragraph? The History Channel doesn't extend its reach to Scilly Sussex; one of those geographical things, I expect.
Originally posted by ReeQueen:
And I always watch the history of torture shows, not to mention Wild West Tech and it's episode on hangings.
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Quote:I am happy for you that this so. Sorry if I was a little harsh, but I was hoping to flush out some responses
Originally posted by jenchrissym:
And Purplebelly, in your reply to me you mentioned a reversed scene and your fears were correct, I have no idea what you were referring to.
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Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:Quote:There appears to be a consensus that the depiction of torture is acceptable entertainment. Is the level of violence which is acceptable dependent on the characters involved? Would Zoe and Kaylee have been acceptable victims?
Originally posted by teraph:
This show is a drama. Bad things are going to happen. In this case, really bad things.
While acknowledging that this thread is about torture, I wonder why the apparent moral outrage from you specifically about torture? In the course of less than a full season, everyone onboard Serenity has been shot or shot at, knocked out, stabbed, beaten, threatened and bound, bombed, held at gunpoint, etc. Was having Kaylee shot or Inara slapped less violent somehow than having Mal and Wash strapped to a metal rack receiving some un-named and rather vague torture?
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Gorramreavers said:
Quote:
Thanks for saying this ReeQueen, part of what I was getting at before.
Ta. ;-D There has been a lot of good discussion here, which I enjoy. I would hope that you don't continue to be too dismayed to continue participating, because I've enjoyed what you've had to say. While I, too, come to these various boards for news on Serenity, I'm easily distracted by bright and shiny (at least, metaphorically!) things and am thus tempted to rant a bit.
That being said - I'm sorry if I'm repeating what others have said in a different way, but there does seem to be some sort of miscommunication that (whether or not it is deliberate I cannot guess) causes me a little frustration. To follow PurpleBelly's example, the reasons why will be continued in following posts....heh....
"Today we get to meet the real you." Niska - War Stories
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Man, I wish I'd gotten here before! But I didn't, so alot of my thoughts have already been posted by other people, so I'll try not to repeat.
Just for the record, I don't have a problem with War Stories, but here's the question-- is physical torture worse than mental? I noticed quite some time ago that Whedon does seem to looove torture scenes, but the physical torture is just an occasional thing. However, at least one character is put through the psychological wringer in every episode of Buffy, Angel, or Firefly. River is practically the poster child for Psychological Wringer, and Mal's just a-seethin' with trauma. True, it's drama, and you gotta have some traumatics with it, but Whedon's characters get kicked in the teeth all the time, and in extremely harsh ways. What's the limit on that kind of torture? Because it
is torture -- River daily suffers more mentally than Mal or Wash did physically in just one episode. Heck, I believe the word "tortured" has been applied to her, and Mal, more than once. This isn't bothersome?
Personally, I tend to find the mental more upsetting that the physical -- well, not "upsetting", per se, but "affecting". I worry more about the characters' states of minds than their health, perhaps because you can see the effect of physical torture, but with mental, you're always guessing the worst. I can see Mal's body has healed up from Niska's rough treatment, but in Trash, when Inara starts to point out that he hasn't really looked for work since.....she trails off, but in my head, I'm finishing the sentence "...since Niska tortured them. Of course he hasn't; the man killed him, and he's a little shook up", and then I'm all off on worrying about how well Mal's sleeping, etc., etc. I would say that was metaphorical, but it's really not. I find that type of thing more affecting--characters dealing with their psychological reactions to the situation.
Or is mental torture less bothersome (if it is)because of what I've just said? Because you don't have the effects right there in black and blue on the person's face?
"I know your name, jackass!"
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Hmmm....I don't understand why someone would imply that posts longer than twenty-five lines would somehow be less worth reading than shorter comments. I usually judge what I read by what is written (and sometimes by whom it is written, 'cause some folks - not excluding myself, natch - can bore to tears), not by length, but perhaps I'm in the minority?
I find serial posts both annoying and irritating. That's just me, and doesn't mean I won't read 'em. I just find them unnecessary (and I kick myself when I do it).
PurpleBelly wrote:
Quote:
Having European sensibilities, I genuinely do not understand the majority audience in this case.
This is where you first mention "European sensibilities" in this thread. To which
Hotpoint asked:
Quote:
Sorry to possibly go O/T on this one but what do you mean by "European sensibilities" in this context because I'm European and not following you here at all?
And Marya made the point that:
Quote:
Ditto that Hotpoint, you just beat me to it. I am European and I don't get it either. Dying to know what "European sensibilities" are. I didn't think we had many left. How are they different from American ones (which I assume you must compare them to)?
Which I think makes my point that your use of an all-encompassing phrase such as "European sensibilities" is a bit of a stretch.
Here is your definition:
PurpleBelly
Quote:
regardless of domicile, I have the sensibilities of a middle-aged pinko-liberal of moderate education without a TV
Nice backpedalling, I give it an 8.5. Only after two others in your general geographical location had registered queries regarding your use of the phrase in question, do you address the issue. On the other hand, with the exception of not having a tv, and possibly not being the same gender as you (I don't know, I'm not as psychic as I'd like to be), I can claim the same qualities of pinko-ness, liberal-ness, and middle-aged-ness. Which is why it is so hard for me to fully understand your insistence in (seemingly) judging people who like War Stories as somehow a group of sadists who get off on the depiction of torture.
Hotpoint:
Quote:
I cannot really be said to speak on behalf of three quarters of a billion Europeans but personally I do not object to "torture as entertainment"* specifically because I am a Liberal and therefore believe there should be no limits of freedom as long as the exercise of that freedom does not infringe upon the liberty of others.
* simulated torture of course
I agree. I absolutely believe in free speech, even unto the expression of things I find hurtful and hateful. I personally like to know what the bastards are thinking, and where they are.
I'm sure I've gone past my allotted twenty-five lines, now. Is anyone still reading?
PurpleBelly:
Quote:
The definition in my original which is Merriam-Webster. You quote my original, but appear not to have read it. If you are asking me to choose another, I decline.
Which differs not in substance from the definition I quoted from Dictionary.com. I think what happened was that I was writing my post on the definition when you posted yours, which therefore showed up before my post, and thus I did not even see your post until this afternoon. I suppose that's really my bad, but I am disinclined to take the blame for this one. File it under Stuff Happens.
I wouldn't dream of asking you to pick another definition. Only you can know what you really mean, I was merely making a guess as to what your intention was in the original post.
PurpleBelly:
Quote:
Except that I can't resist this one. Does this sort of TV exist, or are you being ironic across the whole paragraph? The History Channel doesn't extend its reach to Scilly Sussex; one of those geographical things, I expect.
Yes, the History Channel has a show it repeats every several months on the history of torture, complete with visuals of torture implements and descriptions (with illustrations, no re-enactments) on how
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Quote:Well, no and no. The conditional phrase it may be, omitted from your quote, means that this is not a definition but a conjecture. No backpedalling. My reply goes on to invite contributions to more closely identify the demographic of the entertained
Originally posted by ReeQueen:
Here is your definition:
PurpleBellyQuote:
regardless of domicile, I have the sensibilities of a middle-aged pinko-liberal of moderate education without a TV
Nice backpedalling, I give it an 8.5.
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Quote:My original is time-stamped Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 08:44. Your reply, which quotes my orginal , is time-stamped Thursday, December 23, 2004 - 16:26.
Originally posted by ReeQueen:
I think what happened was that I was writing my post on the definition when you posted yours, which therefore showed up before my post, and thus I did not even see your post until this afternoon. I suppose that's really my bad, but I am disinclined to take the blame for this one. File it under Stuff Happens.
I wouldn't dream of asking you to pick another definition. Only you can know what you really mean, I was merely making a guess as to what your intention was in the original post.
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31 M
Maine, USA
ReeQueen
"..it is my very favorite gun."
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