Joss' fascination with torture ?
POSTED BY: TheSomnambulist
UPDATED: Monday, December 27, 2004 17:15
VIEWED: 35028
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Quote:There appears to be a consensus that the depiction of torture is acceptable entertainment. Is the level of violence which is acceptable dependent on the characters involved? Would Zoe and Kaylee have been acceptable victims?
Originally posted by teraph:
This show is a drama. Bad things are going to happen. In this case, really bad things.
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Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:Quote:Thanks Mal-licious. Do you think there is a limit to the degree of depiction, or is the catharsis directly related to the realism? Having European sensibilities, I genuinely do not understand the majority audience in this case.
Originally posted by Malicious:
... the worse the torture appears, the more you cheer when the torturer gets their comeuppance.
I have no idea if there is a "limit," per se. It's just an individual and therefore subjective limit per person. In my opinion, I think the torture is there to be gotten through, rather than as entertainment in and of itself. In other words, it is a means to an end, not the end itself. At least, it isn't for me!
Mal-licious
Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell
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You'd think we were talking about real people and real torture here instead of characters on a TV show.
Way too much is being read into this. I like War Stories and believe it or not I don't get up and cheer everytime I watch and the torture scene comes on. I think that can be said for most of us.
You must hate slasher flicks PurpleBelly...
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PurpleBelly wrote:
Quote:
There appears to be a consensus that the depiction of torture is acceptable entertainment. Is the level of violence which is acceptable dependent on the characters involved? Would Zoe and Kaylee have been acceptable victims?
I don't believe anybody is saying that "the depiction of torture is acceptable entertainment." What we are discussing here is fiction - not the real depiction of torture (in which case, call the authorities), and most certainly not anybody's sadistic enjoyment of same.
The torture is part of the story. That's really the beginning and end of it. I don't think I, or anyone else, are, by enjoying this episode, sublimating our urges to go out and buy a car battery and some leads, perhaps some restraints, and I'm almost certain no one here has a victim he or she is "shopping" for. Because that seems to be what you're saying, even if you don't quite realize it (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt). Especially as concerns Americans (why else would you mention "European sensibility" as if there was such a thing?), which I think is bloody ridiculous, to tell you the truth.
Because every single country contains within it people who are not good, who would buy a battery, leads, restraints, and who have probably already picked victims. America may not be the shining light of all that is good and right in the world (I'd be the first to admit that), but neither is any other country. No culture can claim the high ground, PurpleBelly, and I think it's the height of arrogance to attempt something like that.
Nobody is innocent of having "wrong" thoughts, and nobody has the right to cast aspersions on other people simply because of their taste in Firefly episodes.
Basically, that's all it boils down to, taste. You don't like the episode as much, and that's fine, but trying to psychoanalyze the rest of us who do enjoy it is not only wrong, it's pretty darn silly.
"Today we get to meet the real you." Niska - War Stories
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>> but trying to psychoanalyze the rest of us who do enjoy it is not only wrong, it's pretty darn silly.
Not least because of all the other questions you could ask of yourself in a similar vein.
*adopts rubbish German accent*
"So, you like this show set in the future, yes? Are you unhappy in the present? Do you wish to be hundred of miles and years away from here, yah? Tell me about your mother."
It's a TV show, to say we're there to enjoy torture is tenuous beyond belief.
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Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
There appears to be a consensus that the depiction of torture is acceptable entertainment.
Nope. There is a consensus that it is acceptable for torture to be portrayed in entertainment. That is not the same as "the depiction of torture is acceptable entertainment". The former says that one can be entertained by a story that includes a scene of torture. The latter says that one is entertained by the torture itself. They are not the same thing.
Quote:
Is the level of violence which is acceptable dependent on the characters involved?
Yes, in the sense that it's dependent on what is necessary for the story and the development of a specific character.
Quote:
Would Zoe and Kaylee have been acceptable victims?
For this episode? No. It wouldn't have served the story. (Neither would Book or Jayne.)
Could they be in another episode? Possibly. It depends on where they want to go with the characters and the story.
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I think something has been overlooked. One of the main reasons people watch and enjoy torture or anything horrific on film is due to the adrenaline rush you get from being frightened or in danger. There is a sense of euphoria once the "danger" is over from the adrenaline high.
So, writing in a torture scene, or maybe someting reaver related (reaver=tortured twisted beings) gives the fans the adrenaline rollercoaster ride. Which the euphoric feeling, when we're all relieved that the Capt and Wash are safe, makes us want to watch more.
Joss and Tim surely know what they are doing throwing in torture.
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Quote:It's not an experience that I have sought. Do you think it would be useful? Is there a canon that would help me to understand the consensus opinion in this thread?
Originally posted by JenDandy:
You must hate slasher flicks PurpleBelly...
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Some really good points have been made in this thread, especially by Teraph. One is that danger, horror, and violence are not appealing in themselves, but they are appealing when you see how empathetic characters deal with them. Another is that fiction does not parallel life, nor should it, necessarily. I'm curious why anyone against the torture scene would be a fan of Firefly, or any violent tv show, actually. Kaylee is shot and nearly dies, ditto for Book, Mal... Yet, aren't we fans "entertained" by those episodes? When other forms of violence are acceptable as narrative or dramatic devices, what makes torture a special case?
Julia
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Quote:
Originally posted by ReeQueen:
... why else would you mention "European sensibility" as if there was such a thing?), which I think is bloody ridiculous, to tell you the truth.
Quote:Used in this thread to emphasise that the opinion is not based on a moral stance alone. The choice of adjective is explained elsewhere; it is an acknowledgement that sensibility may vary with education and experience.
sensibility: peculiar susceptibility to a pleasurable or painful impression (as from praise or a slight) -- often used in plural
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