Joss' fascination with torture ?
POSTED BY: TheSomnambulist
UPDATED: Monday, December 27, 2004 17:15
VIEWED: 35028
PAGE 3 of 13
Quote:
Originally posted by BadgersHat:
Well, it was a brief stint at Fieldston in Riverdale, NY, and when I met him in L.A. 3 years ago, I asked him myself if he'd gone there, and he said yes... so I'm thinking it was one of those brief periods that goes unmentioned due to lack of significance.
--Jefé The Hat
I stand corrected.
"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."
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I agree with Maugwai and will further it by saying that the worse the torture appears, the more you cheer when the torturer gets their comeuppance. It justifies the "hero's" vengeance, thus furthering the story all the while making you empathetic to it, rather than aghast by it.
Mal-licious
Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell
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Quote:Thanks Mal-licious. Do you think there is a limit to the degree of depiction, or is the catharsis directly related to the realism? Having European sensibilities, I genuinely do not understand the majority audience in this case.
Originally posted by Malicious:
... the worse the torture appears, the more you cheer when the torturer gets their comeuppance.
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Don't think Joss is particularly fascinated with torture, just that it shows people in extremes and how they deal with things because of faith (not necessarily religious). I think that the torture more reflects that there are bad people in the world and this is how the victims/ heroes cope. It's not just S&M, a hobby for bored sophisticates, torture really happens, now, around the world, to people who believe in changing things.
But on another note I had a lot of trouble trying to "convert" my sister to Firefly because her teenage sons really like War Stories and she though the whole series was like that.
One of my favourite eps, because it shows the team coming together to save Mal, most definitely not because of the torture.
Debbie
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Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Having European sensibilities, I genuinely do not understand the majority audience in this case.
Sorry to possibly go O/T on this one but what do you mean by "European sensibilities" in this context because I'm European and not following you here at all?
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Quote:
I've heard this rumor before about Joss going to school in New York, but I don't see how it's possible. In all his interviews her talks about his schooling in England, and before that he grew up in L.A. I just don't see why he would go to NY for school. Maybe his connection is through his wife or a friend?
B]
I'm pretty sure he only studied towards A-levels (without actually taking them) at Winchester in England, which means he was just there for two years 16-18ish and then went to Uni in the US. I think the rest of his school years he spent in the US somewhere.
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Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
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I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hotpoint:Quote:
Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Having European sensibilities, I genuinely do not understand the majority audience in this case.Quote:
Sorry to possibly go O/T on this one but what do you mean by "European sensibilities" in this context because I'm European and not following you here at all?
Ditto that Hotpoint, you just beat me to it. I am European and I don't get it either. Dying to know what "European sensibilities" are. I didn't think we had many left. How are they different from American ones (which I assume you must compare them to)?
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Though I do not share it, I can understand Purplebelly's point of view. It's seems wrong that we should be entertained by torture. Yet we enjoy by gunfights and Shakespearean tragedies. Almost all of our favourite stories involve pain and suffering in some way. As Early would say: Does that seem right to you?
I think emotional enjoyment is based on feeling SOMETHING. Whether good or bad emotions we want our brains to be stimulated.
The entertainment came from the conflict between Mal and Wash and the humour rather than the torture. The torture was unrealistic and its best just to sit back, enjoy the story and not think about it too much. I don't think I've ever seen the horror of torture ( http://www.amnesty.org/stoptorture) portrayed accurately and I don't think I want to. I suspect that if any film showed it everyone would be seriously disturbed by it.
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Quote:I don't know the dates, but private schools are less regimented in their approach to study than state schools, A-level courses may be started earlier and completed in a more concentrated time-frame. IIRC Whedon pursued two consecutive courses in English at A-level.
Originally posted by heb:
I'm pretty sure he only studied towards A-levels (without actually taking them) at Winchester in England, which means he was just there for two years 16-18ish ...
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Quote:Just my first cut at an attempt to find the line between entertainment and offence; it may be that, regardless of domicile, I have the sensibilities of a middle-aged pinko-liberal of moderate education without a TV
Originally posted by Marya:
Ditto that Hotpoint, you just beat me to it. I am European and I don't get it either. Dying to know what "European sensibilities" are. I didn't think we had many left.
For me, the acceptable approach to this kind of violence is that made by The Wire. Its existence is acknowledged by the narrative, but its depiction is not presented as entertainment.
But I'm not really interested in me, perhaps the European posters could suggest when torture as entertainment becomes unacceptable to them?
So far, the consensus seems to be that it's tolerable if accompanied by jokes and provides the justification for subsequent slaughter.
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