Real World Event Discussions

BUSH HAS WON!!!!

POSTED BY: Anarko
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:18
VIEWED: 18245
PAGE 9 of 9

Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:36 AM

I think it's more complicated than that. People idealize the unborn tremendously. They hang a lot of hopes and dreams on what "might be". Once the child is born, it offers a more limited range for idealization because it is more of a concrete problem: another messy, noisy mouth to feed. In a way, real children are less cherished than ideal children. They don't deserve welfare. They are candidates for being collateral damage. They are part of the population problem. They have a color, sex, religion and ethnicity and are certainly on somebody's "out" list. What if they become criminals? What if they are born with some serious defect and never become productive? It's much, much easier to cherish the unborn, because they don't present any "problems".

Even for a cynic like me, it's easy to understand why people often fall into the trap of feeling that "Human life begins at conception and ends at birth".

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Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:30 AM

Check out this great article by Peggy Noonan:

Quote:

So Much to Savor

A big win for America, and a loss for the mainstream media.

God bless our country.

Hello, old friends. Let us savor.

Let us get our heads around the size and scope of what happened Tuesday. George W. Bush, 43rd president of the United States, became the first incumbent president to increase his majority in both the Senate and the House and to increase his own vote (by over 3.5 million) since Franklin D. Roosevelt, political genius of the 20th century, in 1936. This is huge.

George W. Bush is the first president to win more than 50% of the popular vote since 1988. (Bill Clinton failed to twice; Mr. Bush failed to last time and fell short of a plurality by half a million.) The president received more than 59 million votes, breaking Ronald Reagan's old record of 54.5 million. Mr. Bush increased his personal percentages in almost every state in the union. He carried the Catholic vote and won 42% of the Hispanic vote and 24% of the Jewish vote (up from 19% in 2000.)

It will be hard for the mainstream media to continue, in the face of these facts, the mantra that we are a deeply and completely divided country. But they'll try!

The Democrats have lost their leader in the Senate, Tom Daschle. I do not know what the Democratic Party spent, in toto, on the 2004 election, but what they seem to have gotten for it is Barack Obama. Let us savor.

The elites of Old Europe are depressed. Savor. The nonelites of Old Europe, and the normal folk of New Europe, especially our beloved friend Poland, will not be depressed, and many will be happy. Let's savor that too.

George Soros cannot buy a presidential election. Savor. "Volunteers" who are bought and paid for cannot beat volunteers who come from the neighborhood, church, workplace and reading group. Savor.

The leaders of the Bush effort see it this way: A ragtag band of more than a million Republican volunteers who fought like Washington's troops at Valley Forge beat the paid Hessians of King George III's army. Savor.

As I write, John Kerry is giving his speech. He looks hurt. Who wouldn't? He fought to the end, for every vote, untiring and ceaseless. I told some young people recently who were walking into a battle, "Here's how to fight: You fight until they kill you, until they kill you and stop your heart, and then you let them carry you out of the room. But you fight until they carry." I think that's how the Democrats fought. Good for them.

To admit defeat with attempted grace is a moving sight. Kerry did well. His talking about his "good conversation" with the president was gracious and helpful. He was honest about the facts of the vote in Ohio. When he thanked his people from the bottom of his heart it was a real thanks. "Thanks to Democrats and Republicans and Independents. . . . Thanks to everyone who voted." "Don't lose faith, what you did made a difference . . . and building on itself . . . the time will come when your votes, your ballots, will change the world. And it's worth fighting for." A lot of pundits and editorialists are going to say, "His best speech of the campaign was his last." But that's not the point.

Mr. Kerry graced democracy today. He showed his love for it. Savor.

And now the president is speaking. He looks tired and happy. He looks as if the lines on his forehead are deeper. Maybe it's the lighting. "We had a really good phone call," he said of Mr. Kerry. "He was very gracious . . . and he and his supporters can be proud of their efforts." Good for them both. He announced his agenda: reform the tax code, privatize Social Security, help the emerging democracies of Iraq and Afghanistan. "And then our servicemen and -women will come home with the honor they have earned."

"Today I want to speak to every person who voted for my opponent. . . . I need your support. . . . I will do all that I can do to earn your trust. . . . We have one country, one Constitution, and one future that binds us." All good. Savor.

Who was the biggest loser

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Monday, December 27, 2004 9:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Lastly, I almost say that this post was a joke by the way Conscience said GW was too liberal. Who the hell would call GW liberal? The man's a right-wing war-monger.



You might have an argument with accusing him of being a war-monger, however President Bush is far from right-wing.

Here is some of the proof:

*Bush supports "civil unions" for homosexuals.

*Bush supports extending the Clinton Gun Ban.

*Bush supports expanding the size and scope of the federal government. Bush has actually outspent both Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

*Bush supports NAFTA, GATT, the WTO, and the FTAA just like the John Kerry and the rest of the Democrats do.

*Bush has no intentions of making abortion- on-demand illegal.

And while we are on the subject of abortion, President G.W. Bush signed legislation in 2002 that increased funding for International Family Planning to the tune of $480.5 million making this Republican-led administration the biggest supporter of international baby butchery in U.S. history. That is not to mention the millions of dollars that Bush has approved for America's largest abortion provider, Planned Parenthood.

Recently, many "pro-lifers" heaped voluminous praise upon Mr. Bush when he decided to withhold a miniscule (by comparison) $34 million in federal funds from UNFPA (a UN abortion agency in China). What these ignorant (or deluded) "pro-lifers" failed to notice was that Bush redirected that $34 million to USAID Child Survival Health Program Fund. This fund includes money for "forecasting, purchasing, and supplying contraceptive commodities and other materials necessary for reproductive health programs."

In other words, all President Bush did was play the old shell game by taking $34 million from one pro-abortion agency and giving it to another pro-abortion agency. As American Life League President Judy Brown said, "These 'contraceptive commodities' are nothing but abortion-inducing chemicals that kill the very children that the fund claims to help."

*Bush supported the removal of Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore for upholding his oath of office to acknowledge God by resisting an unlawful order by federal judge Myron Thompson to remove a monument of the Ten Commandments from the Alabama Judicial Building in Montgomery.

*Bush is a strong supporters of the United Nations.

In fact, when President G.W. Bush addressed the UN in 2003, he said the reason he ordered U.S. troops to invade Iraq was for the purpose of supporting "the peace and credibility of the United Nations."

*Bush supports granting illegal aliens amnesty.

*Bush supports a "one China" policy.

*Bush supports "outsourcing" American jobs overseas like a socialist liberal would.

The list could go on almost without end. Anyone who thinks George Walker Bush is a conservative is out of their mind.

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Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:51 AM

Holy crap I don't know where to begin!

Since you have not posted any links to verify this information, I'll assume that it's true and go from there.

Quote:

Originally posted by Conscience:

*Bush supports "civil unions" for homosexuals.



And is working toward changing the constitution to make it illegal for homosexuls to marry.

Quote:

Originally posted by Conscience:

*Bush supports extending the Clinton Gun Ban.



Then why did the sun set on that one?

Quote:

Originally posted by Conscience:

*Bush supports expanding the size and scope of the federal government. Bush has actually outspent both Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.



To increase it "big brotherness" to "improve" security. Spending money isn't a good thing if you don't spend it right nor even close to right place(s).

Tell me, what exactly has the department of homeland security done besides making colour codings for threat levels? Pretty much nothing.

Quote:

Originally posted by Conscience:

*Bush supports NAFTA, GATT, the WTO, and the FTAA just like the John Kerry and the rest of the Democrats do.



But ignores there rulings if it doesn't go in his favour. Basically, he has the mind of, "The law is just and beautiful as long as it's in my favour."

Quote:

Originally posted by Conscience:

*Bush has no intentions of making abortion- on-demand illegal.



Yes, he does. He's said so in a number of speeches. Rights of the unborn, blah blah blah.


Quote:

Originally posted by Conscience:

*Bush supported the removal of Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore for upholding his oath of office to acknowledge God by resisting an unlawful order by federal judge Myron Thompson to remove a monument of the Ten Commandments from the Alabama Judicial Building in Montgomery.



Perhaps you aren't familiar with the phrase, seperation of church and state.

Quote:

Originally posted by Conscience:

*Bush is a strong supporters of the United Nations.



You haven't been watching the news for the past few years have you? You can't say, before Iraq, "I won't listen to you," bomb the out of a nation for no reason, come back when you fail in every consivable way afterwards to the UN and say, "you guys are viable, please help" and call that a strong supporter of the UN. If your memory was capable of remembering past a few seconds ago, you'd realize this. Or perhaps it's selective memory?

Quote:

Originally posted by Conscience:

In fact, when President G.W. Bush addressed the UN in 2003, he said the reason he ordered U.S. troops to invade Iraq was for the purpose of supporting "the peace and credibility of the United Nations."



Is that the excuse he was using that week?

Quote:

Originally posted by Conscience:

*Bush supports granting illegal aliens amnesty.



link

Quote:

Originally posted by Conscience:

*Bush supports a "one China" policy.



This is only one way of dealing with this issue. Others are just as viable.

Quote:

Originally posted by Conscience:

*Bush supports "outsourcing" American jobs overseas like a socialist liberal would.



link

Quote:

Originally posted by Conscience:

The list could go on almost without end. Anyone who thinks George Walker Bush is a conservative is out of their mind.



I really think that you can't say this. Perhaps you should look at more that a few isolated events and look to the whole picture before you make such statements.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:12 PM

Conscience is right about President Bush not being a conservative. Don't get me wrong, the president's not a liberal either. He is a Communitarian.

http://www.janda.org/b20/News%20articles/GW%2C%20the%20Communitarian.h
tm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communitarianism

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Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:46 PM

That's an interesting classification. It actually falls into line with something I read the other day about the whole neo-con movement. The gist of the article, which was from a pro-Bush, pro neo-con group was an outline of the various forms of modern conservatism.


They distinguished three kinds of conservatism that have been prominent in the last few decades:

Traditional conservatism was the kind most familiar to pre-Bush republicans. It centered on the traditional family values issues, a moderate distrust of big government and a disdain for social engineering (on the domestic side) and nation building (on foreign policy).

Libertarian conservatism centered it's attention squarely on the evils of 'big government' and on the rights of the individual. In international relations they verged on isolationist. Reagan gained power through a mix of the traditional and libertarian styles of conservatism. Newt Gingrich led a relatively libertarian conservative reform movement in the early nineties.

Neo-Conservatism embraces an aggressive promotion of American ideals in foreign policy and sees government as a way to strengthen beneficial moral values in society. They are basically Wilsonians without the troublesome multilateral approach. Overall the despcriptions from the book looked very much like the definition of "Communitarianism" that you linked to.

From my point of view, the Neo-Cons, or Communitarians, represent the worst of both of the old ideologies embraced by liberals and conservatives. They take the big-government, interventionist, convictions of the liberals and match them with the self-righteous, nationalistic , bases of the traditional conservatives. The result is a particularly invasive creation.

I sincerely hope we wake up from this nightmare soon.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:18 AM

@CrevanReaver:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communitarianism
"
To this end they generally support social safety programs, free public education, public works programs, and laws limiting such things as pollution and gun violence.
"

Doesn't sound like GW to me, given that he's done nothing to make Univeristy free or even cheaper and the horrible things that he's done to the US's enviornmental laws.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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