how the Democrats give away votes - illegal immigration

POSTED BY: 1kiki
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 6, 2025 15:06
VIEWED: 3523
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I'll start with illegal immigration.


MOST people want the borders secured, even if they don't want a wall per se.

https://thehill.com/latino/442044-poll-majority-sees-crisis-at-us-sout
hern-border
Poll: Majority of voters say there's a growing 'crisis' at southern border (05/03/19)
https://morningconsult.com/2019/01/08/plurality-of-voters-think-theres
-a-crisis-at-the-border/
Plurality of Voters Think There’s a Crisis at the Border (01/08/2019)
https://www.npr.org/2018/07/17/627251940/amid-a-hispanic-boom-conflict
ing-feelings-on-immigration
Immigration is near the top of the list of issues Americans find "the most worrying," according to a new poll conducted for NPR by the research firm Ipsos. (07/17/2018)



This all officially started - as part of the Trump administration - with Trump wanting to control immigration from countries with significant pro-ISIS / anti-western terrorism: originally Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen.

Obviously I'm not Trump, and I can't address what goes on in his head. But looking at the severe terrorism and criminal crisis in Europe, I would say it was caused by 1) an influx of an insupportable number of refugees, which was IMO just bad policy 2) poor vetting at the Schengen external borders, due to lax policies and procedures and 3) Schengen, which allowed terrorists and criminals to freely move between countries to avoid being tracked by any one government. So for example, you find terrorists coming in from Syria through Greece (where they sometimes grab children and pretend to be a family), settling in the Netherlands where they find each other, commuting to and coordinating with terrorists in Paris, and then exiting to Libya for more terrorist training. (This is the real composite background of the terrorists involved in the Paris multiple-site bombings and shootings.)

If I wanted to be sure such a thing wasn't happening to the US, I might want to specially vet refugees coming from countries with high levels of terrorist activity. And I might want to toughen up our borders, so they aren't so porous. But what seems to me like a common sense approach to keeping out terrorists and preventing a potential problem (by learning from the European example, for instance) was reflexively called by democrats racist. Because, yanno, Trump. Anyway, through a series of court decisions and updated orders the idea was legally upheld.

But people from the Middle East and North Africa don't have a very large or vocal US support group, so this issue exited relatively quickly from the media-space.



On to round two.

I found that as far back as July 2018, Trump was talking about an 'invasion' at the southern border. (Perhaps he was saying the same thing even further back, but I didn't find a reference for it.) Despite his cringe-worthy inflammatory rhetoric, he was on to a problem before most people even had an inkling it was a possibility. Because at that time, and through 2018, illegal crossings were just another average year.



Perhaps he understood that migrant caravans were already on their way in early 2018 and just did some simple math. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_American_migrant_caravans Anyway ...

... that was 2018 ...

At this point, I think most people understand there is a crisis at the border. And perhaps they even understand our asylum process is broken, and that once people enter the US we do an extremely poor job tracking them.

A lot of this sloppiness is historical, some of it is political, but I think it's also significantly intentional as well. Different entities like to have an easily exploited / manipulated / vulnerable subpopulation. For well over 100 years, illegal immigrants have been traditionally used as cheap labor, until they become a political liability, at which point they get pushed back over the southern border (such as after WWII

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Rahm Emanuel concurs:

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"Don’t Make Detroit’s Debate Miami Part II ... This time, don’t fall into the traps that had many of us shaking our heads during the debates in Miami."

"Before our party promises health care coverage to undocumented immigrants — a position not even Ted Kennedy took — let’s help the more than 30 million Americans who are a single illness away from financial ruin. Before we start worrying about whether the Boston Marathon bomber can vote, let’s stop states that are actively trying to curtail voting rights of citizens. And before we promise a guaranteed minimum income to healthy adults who prefer to stay home and play video games, let’s increase the minimum wage and the Earned Income Tax Credit to make work pay for the millions of people who work hard and still live near poverty."

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Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
I'll start with illegal immigration.

...

At this point, I think most people understand there is a crisis at the border. And perhaps they even understand our asylum process is broken, and that once people enter the US we do an extremely poor job tracking them.

A lot of this sloppiness is historical, some of it is political, but I think it's also significantly intentional as well.

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What most people do not understand is that Trump is hopelessly incompetent.

Illegal immigrants read the news and they know about Trump's incompetence, even if American citizens are unaware. Illegals are depending on his incompetence to get into, and remain, in the US. The illegals know that:

As it grapples with a record number of migrant families at the southern border, the Trump administration has so far deported fewer people, on average each year, than the Obama administration.

In fiscal year 2018, the Trump administration deported 256,086 immigrants. In contrast, President Barack Obama removed 409,849 people in 2012.

Another fact illegals know about Trump: from May 13 through July 11, a two month period, ICE arrested only 899 adults who had final deportation orders, in an undertaking called Operation Cross Check. The majority had criminal convictions. At that rate, only 6,000 will be deported in a year. That is out of at least 11,000,000 that need deportation.

Another fact illegals know about Trump: a backlog of nearly one million immigration cases means that it can take years for their case to wind its way through the courts.

And Trump's raids are going very badly. More than 2,000 migrants who were in the United States illegally were targeted in widely publicized raids that unfolded across the country two weeks ago. But figures the government provided to The New York Times on Monday show that just 35 people were detained in the operation.

President Trump had touted the raids — called Operation Border Resolve — as a show of force amid an influx of Central American parents and children across the southern border. What Trump showed was not "force" but weakness. To reiterate: the illegals know how weak Trump is. They aren't fooled by his empty bragging. That is why they are swarming to the Southern border.

www.nytimes.com/2019/07/23/us/ice-raids-apprehensions.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Apparently SECOND thinks that every southern border problem arose with Trump and Trump alone, and will disappear with him. Also, please note that SECOND has HIGHLY edited the parts of the NYTimes he pretends to quote, and is trying to pass it off as a genuine article.

1. My 600 lb life. (TV show)
2. Donald Trump.
3. Texas Republicans.
4. Ruining people's lives because of their political beliefs.
5. Talking about how much money he has
6. Republicans in general
7. Conservatives

Quote:

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Originally posted by second:
2. Donald Trump.
2. Donald Trump.
2. Donald Trump.
2. Donald Trump.
2. Donald Trump.
2. Donald Trump.
2. Donald Trump.
2. Donald Trump.
Of course taken from:
www.nytimes.com/2019/07/23/us/ice-raids-apprehensions.html

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FIFY
I've helpfully summarized your post so other people can get the gist without having to do any tedious reading.

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Welfare state and open borders simply don't mix. Many EU nations have discovered that already, and most Americans understand that concept at a gut level.

KIKI, are you planning on creating a different thread for each topic?

Because there's another one that the Democrats are focusing on (according to someone who watched the first round of the second debate) which is, if anything, even more unpopular than extending welfare to illegal migrants, and that's "reparations for slavery".

But that's another topic and possible another thread.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Yes - I'm hoping to have separate threads titled 'how the Democrats give away votes - xxxxxx'

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Welfare state and open borders simply don't mix. Many EU nations have discovered that already, and most Americans understand that concept at a gut level.

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Yes, some of the issues are with the welfare state / open borders combination.

But it's not JUST about the welfare state. There are many arenas in the US that don't currently meet the needs of existing citizens that would be overwhelmed by a large influx of immigrants, like schools and medical care. But I'll focus on jobs and housing.

Working people have been falling behind for decades. And there simply isn't enough job growth + wage growth to support a lot of extra people looking for work, and maintain current wages. I know this because currently, even WITH strong employment demands, wages are flat at best compared to inflation. Real Wage Growth Is Actually Falling https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickwwatson/2018/09/25/real-wage-growt
h-is-actually-falling/#3673ec8c7284

In our current situation all sorts of statistics indicate US citizens are faring poorly: The USDA estimates that nearly 13 million children in the United States live in food-insecure households as of 2016.1 That means that 1 in 6 children (18%) may not have consistent access to enough food for an active, healthy life. And that's despite the fact that SNAP benefits supplied roughly 40 million Americans in 2018. Approximately 9.2% of American households obtained SNAP benefits at some point during 2017, with approximately 16.7% of all children living in households with SNAP benefits.

We have the first-world problem that home ownership has gone down. On top of that, housing of course has become more expensive, so that For the majority of states, between 10% and 15% of households are housing insecure. I'm not sure we have the economic capacity to house a lot more people without pushing even more out on the street.

We're simply not providing for Americans as it is through any combination of (private / public) (opportunity / resources).

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Yes - I'm hoping to have separate threads titled 'how the Democrats give away votes - xxxxxx'

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Maybe you should make it: How Trump gave away control of the Southern Border

www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
The graph for 2017 shows that Border Apprehensions dropped immediately after Trump became President. Then Trump announced many times that he could NOT control the border without his NEW AND BEAUTIFUL WALL. The illegals decided to come North and see if the border was as weak and porous as Trump said it was.

Every month that Trump says he cannot stop migrants because he does not have his Wall is a month when more and more migrants test the border to see if what Trump says is true. Trump's big mouth is calling the migrants to the border.

Trump: I Can Call A "National Emergency" And Build The Wall "Very Quickly"
www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/01/04/trump_i_can_call_a_national
_emergency_and_build_the_wall_very_quickly.html

It has been 8 months since Trump shutdown the government, but there is still no new Wall. Trump has not used his emergency powers to stop migrants. The migrants know this. A huge number of them have come North now to get inside the USA before Trump finally gets around to calling that National Emergency he has been promising.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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1. My 600 lb life. (TV show)
2. Donald Trump.
3. Texas Republicans.
4. Ruining people's lives because of their political beliefs.
5. Talking about how much money he has
6. Republicans in general
7. Conservatives

Quote:

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Originally posted by SECOND:
2. Donald Trump.
2. Donald Trump
2. Donald Trump.
2. Donald Trump.
2. Donald Trump
2. Donald Trump.
2. Donald Trump
2. Donald Trump.
2. Donald Trump
2. Donald Trump.

---

FIFY
I've helpfully summarized your post so other people can get the gist without having to do any tedious reading.

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