Citizenship Question On Census
POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Friday, July 24, 2020 08:38
VIEWED: 9439
PAGE 1 of 2
SCOTUS issued a ruling today, with numerous parts and splinters.
I heard that the most scathing opinion was another excellent one from Justice Thomas.
Here is one article I found which seems to have details:
Justice Clarence Thomas filed an opinion concurring in part and dissenting in part, which was joined by Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. In his view, the Supreme Court’s “only role in this case is to decide whether the Secretary complied with the law and gave a reasoned explanation for his decision.” Because the “Court correctly answers these questions in the affirmative,” Thomas argued, that “ought to end our inquiry.”
Thomas warned that the court’s holding could have much broader implications for administrative law because it “reflects an unprecedented departure” from the court’s normal practice of deferring to discretionary decisions by federal agencies. “It is not difficult,” he posited, “for political opponents of executive actions to generate controversy with accusations of pretext, deceit, and illicit motives.” “Crediting these accusations on evidence as thin as the evidence here could lead judicial review of administrative proceedings to devolve into an endless morass of discovery and policy disputes,” he cautioned.
https://www.scotusblog.com/2019/06/opinion-analysis-court-orders-do-ov
er-on-citizenship-question-in-census-case/
Amy Howe Independent Contractor and Reporter
Posted Thu, June 27th, 2019 5:50 pm
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Opinion analysis: Court orders do-over on citizenship question in census case (Updated)
Editor’s Note: This post, originally published at 12:49 p.m., was expanded at 5:48 p.m.
The fate of a question about citizenship on the 2020 census remains up in the air today. Although the Trump administration had hoped that the Supreme Court would clear the way for it to include such a question, the justices instead sent the issue back to the Department of Commerce. In a deeply fractured opinion, Chief Justice John Roberts joined the court’s four liberal justices in ruling that the justification that the government offered at the time for including the citizenship question was just a pretext. The decision left open the possibility that the Trump administration could try again to add the citizenship question, but the clock is ticking: The government has repeatedly told the justices, in urging them to resolve the case quickly, that it needs to finalize the census questionnaire by the end of this month.
Chief Justice Roberts announces opinion in Department of Commerce v. New York (Art Lien)
The dispute began last year, when Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross announced that the 2020 census would include a question about citizenship. Questions about citizenship have been used on the census before, although since 1950 such questions have only been asked on forms that go to some (but not all) households. The government wanted to ask everyone about their citizenship on the 2020 census, Ross explained, to obtain data that would help the Department of Justice to better enforce federal voting-rights laws.
Ross’ announcement drew an immediate legal challenge from New York and other state and local governments, as well as immigrants’ rights groups. The challengers contended that including a question about citizenship on the census will lead to inaccurate results, because households with undocumented or Hispanic immigrants won’t respond. And that, they argued, could lead states with large immigrant populations – which tend to lean Democratic – to lose billions in federal funding and possible even seats in the U.S. House of Representatives.
With the stakes so high, the dispute proved to be a particularly contentious one. The government came to the Supreme Court for the first time last fall, asking the justices to block the depositions of Ross and John Gore, a senior official in the Department of Justice, and to bar the district court from allowing additional fact-finding outside the official record for the decision. The Supreme Court gave the governmen
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One think I try to keep clear is the changing definitions of the terms. Libtards are working feverishly to have all terms of The Constitution redefined by their current slang usage.
Person:
Citizen: Granted Citizenship by each State in which the Citizen resides.
Non-Citizen Resident: such as Visa Entrants.
Resident:
The term for Illegal Alien roaming the country, evading Law Enforcement, was not clearly established, because at the time such people would be in Prison, and not worthy of representation, not having Right to Vote, etc.
These could try to be matched to the terms in effect at the time.
Native American, Sovereign, choosing to not be a US Citizen.
US Citizen, granted by the State.
Non-Citizen, legally entered and residing in the country.
Prisoners, Incarcerated, including all Illegal Aliens not still eluding Law Enforcement.
Residents of Territories.
Citizens of a State, but traveling or Migrated to another State or Territory.
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With Census Decision, Chief Justice John Roberts said Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross is a Liar
Today the Supreme Court agreed with the government that a citizenship question on the 2020 Census could be legal, if justified by a legitimate reason.
Writing for the majority, Chief Justice John Roberts said Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross’s justification for adding the citizenship question was “contrived,” and remanded the decision back to the lower courts.
The ruling essentially says, ‘You can’t give a fake reason.’ Ross would now have to give a real reason, but the time window is closing quickly on that. And if Ross can come up with a justification, derived from a reasonable decision-making process, it would still have to survive the scrutiny of New York City District Judge Jesse Furman, to whom the case has been remanded. But Furman has no shortage of skepticism for Ross.
The court’s characteristically narrow ruling, however, elides the most important revelation of the census saga: that the Donald Trump administration allied with anti-immigrant demagogues and the architects of Republican gerrymandering in an effort to specifically suppress the political power and participation of immigrants and people of color. Emails released by the Commerce Department during litigation revealed that former Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, mastermind of nationwide voter suppression efforts, wrote to Ross in July 2017, “at the direction of Steve Bannon,” urging him to add a citizenship question because its absence “leads to the problem that aliens . . . are still counted for congressional apportionment purposes.”
Then, earlier this month, it was reported that the late Tom Hofeller, a Republican National Committee redistricting expert, had urged the Trump transition team to adopt a citizenship question after determining that it “would clearly be a disadvantage to the Democrats” and “advantageous to Republicans and non-Hispanic whites.” A paragraph drafted by Hofeller and found on his hard drive by his estranged daughter supported the premise that citizenship data would help enforce the Voting Rights Act. That paragraph later appeared word for word in a draft letter from the Justice Department to the Census Bureau requesting the citizenship question.
This accumulation of evidence suggests not just that Ross’s justification — to Congress and the public — was a lie (or, as Roberts would put it, a “contrivance”), but that the real motive was the one suspected by Democrats and civil rights advocates from the outset: to transfer political power from minority communities to white people in red states.
More at https://theintercept.com/2019/06/27/census-citizenship-question-suprem
e-court/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Democrats don't want the census question because Federal funds are doled out to areas based off of the number of legitimate citizens that are in said areas.
They're ESPECIALLY against this question being asked with the threat that Trump is going to send the overflow of illegals to so-called sanctuary cities that will go bankrupt rather quickly when they have to provide welfare for anywhere from thousands to millions of illegals with no Federal assistance for the task.
This is the ONLY truth of the matter.
Anybody screaming "muh racism!" is either an idiot or is knowingly attacking the truth.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:6ix, the number of representatives in Congress is based on population counted in the Census, not on citizenship. Back when the Constitution was being written, everybody was counted, including non-citizens and even slaves. The only people excluded were the Indians. That has NOT changed, but the GOP is trying to sneak in a change without revising the Constitution.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Democrats don't want the census question because Federal funds are doled out to areas based off of the number of legitimate citizens that are in said areas.
They're ESPECIALLY against this question being asked with the threat that Trump is going to send the overflow of illegals to so-called sanctuary cities that will go bankrupt rather quickly when they have to provide welfare for anywhere from thousands to millions of illegals with no Federal assistance for the task.
This is the ONLY truth of the matter.
Anybody screaming "muh racism!" is either an idiot or is knowingly attacking the truth.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constit
ution#Clause_3:_Apportionment_of_Representatives_and_taxes
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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I'm not talking about representatives.
I'm talking about Federal funds, which is directly tied to the amount of legit citizens.
I've already posted this with a link in another thread. Go find that, or google it.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:6ix, there is nothing in the Constitution that requires "Federal funds" to be "directly tied to the amount of legit citizens" counted by the census in a state. Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security (the biggest Federal programs) don't have any of your imaginary ties to what the Census says the state's citizen population is. But the Constitution certainly requires the Census to count everyone, except Indians. There is no Constitutional way to convince people to lie about living inside a State, but there is a sneaky way that Trump wanted to use.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I'm not talking about representatives.
I'm talking about Federal funds, which is directly tied to the amount of legit citizens.
I've already posted this with a link in another thread. Go find that, or google it.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Interestingly, the amount of direct taxes that could be collected by the federal government from the people in any State would still be tied directly to that state's share of the national population. The Federal Taxes were directly proportional to state population measured by the Census. But once again, Indians don't get counted. There's laws about who's Indian and who ain't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Citizenship_Act
Due to this restriction, application of the income tax to income derived from real estate and specifically income in the form of dividends from personal property ownership such as stock shares was found to be unconstitutional because it was not apportioned among the states; that is to say, there was no guarantee that a State with 10% of the country's population paid 10% of those income taxes collected, because Congress had not fixed an amount of money to be raised and apportioned it between the States according to their respective shares of the national population. To permit the levying of such an income tax, Congress proposed and the states ratified the Sixteenth Amendment in 1913, which removed the restriction by specifically providing that Congress could levy a tax on income "from whatever source derived" without it being apportioned among the States or otherwise based on a State's share of the national population.
https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/amendments/ame
ndment-xvi
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Nobody gives a shit, Second.
What you're advocating for here, HARD, is giving tax money taken from legal tax paying citizens away to illegals who leach off the system. You're also saying that we shouldn't be able to determine this using the census.
Tough titty for you, idiot. That is EXACTLY what is going to happen now.
Federal judges in place and the new makeup of the Supreme Court pretty much ensures this is finally going to happen.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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The whole thing is stupid. Anyone can just check the box that they're a citizen. It's not like there's a Census Police to verify it. Even the IRS, with all its resources, is only able to audit 1% of tax returns.
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Quote:6ix, obviously to me, you don't understand what is happening right in front of your face, but from years of experience I know that has never been obvious to you.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Nobody gives a shit, Second.
What you're advocating for here, HARD, is giving tax money taken from legal tax paying citizens away to illegals who leach off the system. You're also saying that we shouldn't be able to determine this using the census.
Tough titty for you, idiot. That is EXACTLY what is going to happen now.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Your lack of interest in understanding details is why you and the Trump voters I know are either poor or living troubled lives. Trump voters can't hide, except from themselves, how badly they fucked up their own lives. They blame most of their problems on anybody but themselves. I've never seen blame-shifting actually work, but for you, maybe it will. If you don't become interested in the details of how life really works, the modern world will rip your money off and leave you completely confused about how it happened to you. Then a fraud and conman such as Trump will give you a false explanation. Go ahead and believe him, but it will do you no good.
And that "giving tax money taken from legal tax paying citizens away to illegals who leach off the system"? It is tax paying citizens that leach off the system. For one example, some fancy (and very false) paperwork convinced the Federal government to pay a crook $511 million:
www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-06-24/the-polygamist-who-allegedl
y-scammed-the-u-s-out-of-a-half-billion-dollars
Need I mention hundreds of billions of dollars per year of crookedness is happening? It is being done by tax paying citizens, not aliens, ripping off the Federal Government.
www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/04/29/IRS-Now-Pegs-Tax-Cheating-Americans-
458-Billion-Annually
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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There's also nothing in the Constitution that requires information about household income, age and birth date, ethnic group, disabilities, mode of transportation to get to work, 'fertility' ... and so on.
https://www2.census.gov/library/publications/decennial/2020/operations
/planned-questions-2020-acs.pdf
And 'citizenship' questions have been asked before.
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/27/597436512/fact-check-has-citizenship-be
en-a-standard-census-question
"The last time a citizenship question was among the census questions for ALL U.S. households was in 1950." "Starting in 1970, questions about citizenship were included in the long-form questionnaire but not the short form." "Later, the census added the American Community Survey, conducted every year and sent to 3.5 million households. It began being fully implemented in 2005. It asks many of the same questions as the census long-form surveys from 1970 to 2000, including the citizenship question."
This is just another faux outrage.
And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac
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Quote:Looking through this, The Constitution uses the term "free persons" as well as "Natives, not taxed" and "three fifths of all other persons." I see no reference that any Incarcerated person or Outlaw person subject to Incarceration or Deportation would be included in the term "free person."
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
One think I try to keep clear is the changing definitions of the terms. Libtards are working feverishly to have all terms of The Constitution redefined by their current slang usage.
Person:
Citizen: Granted Citizenship by each State in which the Citizen resides.
Non-Citizen Resident: such as Visa Entrants.
Resident:
The term for Illegal Alien roaming the country, evading Law Enforcement, was not clearly established, because at the time such people would be in Prison, and not worthy of representation, not having Right to Vote, etc.
These could try to be matched to the terms in effect at the time.
Native American, Sovereign, choosing to not be a US Citizen.
US Citizen, granted by the State.
Non-Citizen, legally entered and residing in the country.
Prisoners, Incarcerated, including all Illegal Aliens not still eluding Law Enforcement.
Residents of Territories.
Citizens of a State, but traveling or Migrated to another State or Territory.
The 14 Amendment changed some of this. It was to deal with the recently freed former Slaves, and their Citizenship and Rights. The term "free person" was changed to "persons" but the term Slave was used to describe those Incarcerated for commission of crimes. The Slavery for reasons OTHER than commission of crime had been outlawed.
This seems to still exclude Criminals, Incarcerated, Outlaws evading Incarceration or Deportation from the "persons" to be counted in the Census. Illegal Aliens would soundly land in this group.
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Well if the census can't provide this single simple service of accurate accounting, I recommend getting rid of the entire costly endeavor in the first place.
It sounds as if through incompetence or willful neglect, it's lost it's ability to provide any sort of valuable information and has outlived its purpose.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:A more valuable question for the Census would be about Income Tax Evasion. How much Income did you have for each of the last 10 years? There will be a criminal penalty for lying to the Census-taker and a "guarantee" from Trump that the IRS won't be told. If the Census can't "provide any sort of valuable information" it "has outlived its purpose."
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Well if the census can't provide this single simple service of accurate accounting, I recommend getting rid of the entire costly endeavor in the first place.
It sounds as if through incompetence or willful neglect, it's lost it's ability to provide any sort of valuable information and has outlived its purpose.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
6ix, the Constitution requires a Census every 10 years. That's its purpose.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:You better look, again. Start at www.prisonersofthecensus.org/faq.html
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Looking through this, The Constitution uses the term "free persons" as well as "Natives, not taxed" and "three fifths of all other persons." I see no reference that any Incarcerated person or Outlaw person subject to Incarceration or Deportation would be included in the term "free person."
The 14 Amendment changed some of this. It was to deal with the recently freed former Slaves, and their Citizenship and Rights. The term "free person" was changed to "persons" but the term Slave was used to describe those Incarcerated for commission of crimes. The Slavery for reasons OTHER than commission of crime had been outlawed.
This seems to still exclude Criminals, Incarcerated, Outlaws evading Incarceration or Deportation from the "persons" to be counted in the Census. Illegal Aliens would soundly land in this group.
Q: Why does the Census count incarcerated people if they can't vote?
A: The Census counts everybody, including children and non-citizens, neither of whom can vote.
Q: Does the census count incarcerated people, including children and non-citizens, as if they were residents of the towns where they are incarcerated?
A: Yes.
Q: How does the Census count incarcerated people?
A: The Census sends forms to every American household with the question "How many people were living or staying in this house, apartment or mobile home on April 1, 2010?" The form instructs respondents to exclude certain residents, including household members incarcerated in correctional facilities. To count incarcerated people, census takers visit prisons and distribute forms or collect the necessary data from administrators. Regardless of how their forms are filled out, the Census assigns incarcerated people to the address of the prison.
Q: Have incarcerated people always been counted at the prison?
A: Yes. However, until the era of mass incarceration, the Bureau's practice amounted to little more than a trivial quirk. (If fact, the Census Bureau didn't mention incarcerated people in the printed instructions prior to the 1990 Census because incarceration was still rare enough that it didn't matter.)
Q: Are people incarcerated in federal prisons counted the same way?
A: Yes, even though people under the jurisdiction of the Federal Bureau of Prisons are often incarcerated out of state, they are still counted at the location of the prison, not at at their address of residence.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Well if the census can't provide this single simple service of accurate accounting, I recommend getting rid of the entire costly endeavor in the first place.
It sounds as if through incompetence or willful neglect, it's lost it's ability to provide any sort of valuable information and has outlived its purpose.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
6ix, the Constitution requires a Census every 10 years. That's its purpose.
Yeah. So what?
If it no longer does what it was designed to do in the first place and we keep doing it anyhow, I don't see how that's any different than Shirley Jackson's Lottery.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:The last Census, in 2010, increased Texas's Representatives in Congress by four seats. That was the purpose of the last Census. That will be the only purpose of the next Census.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:Quote:
Originally posted by second:
6ix, the Constitution requires a Census every 10 years. That's its purpose.
Yeah. So what?
If it no longer does what it was designed to do in the first place and we keep doing it anyhow, I don't see how that's any different than Shirley Jackson's Lottery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_congressional_apportionmen
t#Changes_following_the_2010_census
Texas will gain 3 seats in the House of Representatives after the 2020 Census: www.brennancenter.org/potential-shifts-political-power-after-2020-cens
us
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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You're extremely hyper-focused on Texas, Second. You are aware there are 49 other states, correct?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:I am very aware that Republicans control more than 41 Seats in the Senate, which is a problem for Texas when the rules of the Senate allow 41 stubborn Senators who are not Texans to block anything, no matter how important it is for Texas. And those 41 don't need any reason, whatsoever, other than they feel like it. Would you want a minority of 41%, made up of absolute strangers, sabotaging anything they please? The rules of the Senate need to be fixed and that will never happen without the House of Representatives forcing the issue, much like the House of Commons forced the issue on the House of Lords, which was one inspiration for the US Senate.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
You're extremely hyper-focused on Texas, Second. You are aware there are 49 other states, correct?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
The Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949 effectively abolished the power of the House of Lords to reject legislation, or to amend it in a way unacceptable to the House of Commons: most bills could be delayed for no more than one calendar year. Similarly, the US Senate definitely needs to lose power. For now, the Senate can delay forever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_Acts_1911_and_1949
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Thomas?
When is that fascist token loser going to die, already?
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Quote:You know what would happen if Alaska decided to split into 2 States of equal size?
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
You're extremely hyper-focused on Texas, Second. You are aware there are 49 other states, correct?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Texas would become the 3rd largest State.
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I'm always amazed that Russian trolls would come to such a tiny forum, expose themselves as total liars, and expect that anyone with a room-temperature IQ would believe them.
That's why your only friend is Jack-off. He's that dumb.
The rest of us are literate.
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Quote:A quirk of a 19th-century Congressional resolution could allow Texas to split up into five states, for a total of 10 Senators — a power no other state has because no other state was a nation before joining the United States. Alaska can't split since it was Russian land.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:You know what would happen if Alaska decided to split into 2 States of equal size?
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
You're extremely hyper-focused on Texas, Second. You are aware there are 49 other states, correct?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Texas would become the 3rd largest State.
www.smithsonianmag.com/history/more-150-years-texas-has-had-power-sece
de-itself-180962354/
Texas’ claim comes straight from the 1845 joint congressional resolution admitting Texas into the Union. It reads: “New States of convenient size not exceeding four in number, in addition to said State of Texas and having sufficient population, may, hereafter by the consent of said State, be formed out of the territory thereof, which shall be entitled to admission under the provisions of the Federal Constitution.”
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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lol
I guess "literacy" around these parts requires you to be angry all the time, wish death on people who don't agree with you and to threaten other people daily.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Who got the story right? 1) Trump or 2) Fox News?
1) Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump tweeted Wednesday:
The News Reports about the Department of Commerce dropping its quest to put the Citizenship Question on the Census is incorrect or, to state it differently, FAKE! We are absolutely moving forward, as we must, because of the importance of the answer to this question.
8:06 AM - 3 Jul 2019
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1146435093491277824
2) The Trump administration’s decision to abandon its efforts to include a citizenship question on the 2020 Census represents the sad and aggravating end to what should have been an easy fight.
www.foxnews.com/opinion/deroy-murdock-trump-botches-citizenship-questi
on-with-too-much-lawyering-and-too-little-explanation
No threatened or promised action can be trusted until, in fact, it has happened. And even then, you have to leave a little margin for a post-decision re-decision, kind of like watching an airplane take off and then suddenly turn around and land.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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"No threatened or promised action can be trusted until, in fact, it has happened."
You're learning. Nothing Trump says, or tweets, is worth paying attention to. So stop hyper-reacting to every stupid thing, already. It's pointless, and furthermore, distracts you from your goals.
You already have, or should have, a general idea of what he wants to do re any particular topic. So, for example, war with Iran? CHECK. Securing the southern border? CHECK. Better trade dynamic with China? CHECK. Normalize relations with Russia? CHECK. Realize that war with Iran and normalized relations with Russia are incompatible? BZZZT!
Everything else is part of a negotiation strategy of an endless blizzard of bluster. Which is why nobody trusts him. Even after he seems to have reached an agreement, you never know if it's just another endless blizzard of bluster move. Just another Jackson Pollock painting, without the art.
He is, as has been noted by people far smarter than me, "not agreement capable".
BTW, if I were Putin, I would exploit Trump's biggest weakness, which is the need to be seen as a 'winner'. I would humor him publicly.
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Quote:It is not a strategy. Trump lets the news media control his mouth. That is stupid. Stupid people seldom get what they want.
Originally posted by 1kiki:
You already have, or should have, a general idea of what he wants to do re any particular topic. Securing the southern border? CHECK.
Everything else is part of a negotiation strategy of an endless blizzard of bluster.
Presented with a choice between the reality established by the courts or a potential blow to his standing in his political base, Trump made a familiar move: "The News Reports about the Department of Commerce dropping its quest to put the Citizenship Question on the Census is incorrect or, to state it differently, FAKE!" Trump tweeted.
It would not be the first time that Trump has bowed to the conservative media machine. He backed out of a deal with Democrats on "Securing the southern border" amid conservative media fury over the compromise.
But the head-spinning developments on Wednesday pose deeper questions than Trump's relationship with his conservative base.
They stir fresh uncertainty about his respect for the rulings of the courts -- including the Supreme Court. Given the President's refusal to submit to constitutionally authorized congressional oversight, this will shortly become even more acute.
www.cnn.com/2019/07/04/politics/donald-trump-immigration-census-2020-c
ourts/index.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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And yet, you react to Trump's stupidities as if you were one of Pavlov's dogs salivating at a bell. Talk about mindless.
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Quote:1kiki, the way you write, you have no genuine interest in what is happening. It's all games and posturing with you. Are you scoring points somewhere for some real, yet hidden, purpose?
Originally posted by 1kiki:
And yet, you react to Trump's stupidities as if you were one of Pavlov's dogs salivating at a bell. Talk about mindless.
The government estimated Trump's census question would decrease Hispanic participation by more than five percent, leading to fewer government resources and less congressional representation in areas with large Latino populations — most of which just happen to be in predominantly Democratic states and districts.
Last week, the Supreme Court called Trump’s bluff. The court held that a citizenship question could, in theory, be valid, legal, and constitutional. However, Chief Justice Roberts continued, the government had lied, over and over again, about the real reason -- to decrease the count -- for adding the question to the census. That violated the law.
Trump's problem is that the government has said throughout this litigation that it needed to start printing the census forms by July 1. Today is July 5th. So, even if Trump's government could come up with a valid, truthful reason for adding the question, time is up. But trying anyway will prolong the political battle, allowing Trump to score more points with his base. 1kiki, are you scoring points, too? Who is your base? What is your purpose here? Be truthful, unlike Trump's people when they went to the Supreme Court. Or lie cleverly. I won't be able to tell if you are lying because I won't have access to your bosses' documents like New York state got against Trump's government. Certain hard drives left behind by a dead man were located that gave the real story. Department of Commerce v. New York was a very tangled case, full of misleading arguments and outright lies by the GOP.
www.scotusblog.com/2019/06/opinion-analysis-court-orders-do-over-on-ci
tizenship-question-in-census-case/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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I've been reminded of a quote, perhaps it was by Andrew Jackson.
The Court has issued it's ruling. Now let's see them enforce it.
What happens if Trump print the Census forms with the question, and just says they have a different reason for the question?
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Nothing Trump says, or tweets, is worth paying attention to.
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Everything else is part of a negotiation strategy of an endless blizzard of bluster.
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
And yet, you react to Trump's stupidities as if you were one of Pavlov's dogs salivating at a bell. Talk about mindless.
Quote:Perhaps you need to re-read what I posted? I don't pay attention to his bluster or his tweets. I don't pay attention to his WORDS.
Originally posted by SECOND:
1kiki, the way you write, you have no genuine interest in what is happening.
What he DOES is consequential.
The rest of your post is pointless since it doesn't address anything I am, think, say, or do.
And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:1kiki, the way you write, you have no genuine interest in what is happening. It's all games and posturing with you. Are you scoring points somewhere for some real, yet hidden, purpose?
Originally posted by 1kiki:
And yet, you react to Trump's stupidities as if you were one of Pavlov's dogs salivating at a bell. Talk about mindless.
The government estimated Trump's census question would decrease Hispanic participation by more than five percent, leading to fewer government resources and less congressional representation in areas with large Latino populations — most of which just happen to be in predominantly Democratic states and districts.
Last week, the Supreme Court called Trump’s bluff. The court held that a citizenship question could, in theory, be valid, legal, and constitutional. However, Chief Justice Roberts continued, the government had lied, over and over again, about the real reason -- to decrease the count -- for adding the question to the census. That violated the law.
Trump's problem is that the government has said throughout this litigation that it needed to start printing the census forms by July 1. Today is July 5th. So, even if Trump's government could come up with a valid, truthful reason for adding the question, time is up. But trying anyway will prolong the political battle, allowing Trump to score more points with his base. 1kiki, are you scoring points, too? Who is your base? What is your purpose here? Be truthful, unlike Trump's people when they went to the Supreme Court. Or lie cleverly. I won't be able to tell if you are lying because I won't have access to your bosses' documents like New York state got against Trump's government. Certain hard drives left behind by a dead man were located that gave the real story. Department of Commerce v. New York was a very tangled case, full of misleading arguments and outright lies by the GOP.
www.scotusblog.com/2019/06/opinion-analysis-court-orders-do-over-on-ci
tizenship-question-in-census-case/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07-07/trumps-citizenship-question-
isnt-controversial-obama-deleting-it-shouldve-been
President Trump’s citizenship question on the upcoming U.S. census is, contrary to popular opinion, the norm for the decennial survey.
Barack Obama was the first President to exclude a question on citizenship in the U.S. Census.
posted for future look-up
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Barack Obama was the first President to exclude a question on citizenship in the U.S. Census.
Because, of course he was.
Anybody arguing that this should be kept off of the census is no different than Evangelicals on the Right demanding that "Under God" stay in the Pledge of Allegiance when it never originally was in there.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:The "anybody" you complain about is the Supreme Court.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Anybody arguing that this should be kept off of the census is no different than Evangelicals on the Right demanding that "Under God" stay in the Pledge of Allegiance when it never originally was in there.
Last Friday, Trump suggested that he might sign an executive order putting a citizenship question on the 2020 census. I hope he does it.
Here’s why. It would be in court instantly along with a request for emergency appeal directly to the Supreme Court, which would be granted. The five justices who voted against the citizenship question originally would also vote to overturn the executive order and that would be the end of things.
But it would also give us a chance to learn something about the other four justices. Even though they originally voted to allow the citizenship question, they should agree that the Court ruled against it and the president is bound by its ruling. Even in what the justices might consider a righteous cause, presidents aren’t allowed to flout a Supreme Court ruling. That should produce a quick, unanimous opinion.
If it doesn’t, it will tell us something important about just how hackish the four conservatives are.
www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/18pdf/18-966_bq7c.pdf
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:I thought you had vowed to stop feeding the Troll.
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Nothing Trump says, or tweets, is worth paying attention to.Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Everything else is part of a negotiation strategy of an endless blizzard of bluster.Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
And yet, you react to Trump's stupidities as if you were one of Pavlov's dogs salivating at a bell. Talk about mindless.Quote:Perhaps you need to re-read what I posted? I don't pay attention to his bluster or his tweets. I don't pay attention to his WORDS.
Originally posted by SECOND:
1kiki, the way you write, you have no genuine interest in what is happening.
What he DOES is consequential.
The rest of your post is pointless since it doesn't address anything I am, think, say, or do.
And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac
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The White House insisted allegations that it wanted to add a citizenship question to the survey for political reasons were conspiracy theories, right up until the moment the president confirmed them.
“There is no smoking gun here; only smoke and mirrors,” the Department of Justice insisted when liberal groups uncovered evidence.
The Justice Department characterized the new evidence as resembling “the product of a conspiracy theorist.”
The respondents’ “conspiracy theory” was “implausible on its face,” Solicitor General Noel Francisco echoed in a brief written for the Supreme Court in June.
Then Donald Trump himself confirmed that the “conspiracy theory” put forth by groups challenging the legality of the citizenship question was true.
This is a constant risk for Trumpists — that they will commit to vigorous defenses of falsehoods, only to be made fools when the president abandons the deception or changes his mind, when it becomes politically convenient.
For those keeping score at home, The Washington Post has documented at least 10 instances of the Trump administration contradicting its own statements on the citizenship question.
1) When the Trump administration told Congress and the public that the citizenship question on the census was needed to enforce the Voting Rights Act, that was a lie.
2) When the Trump administration denied that its intent was to use the data to draw congressional districts that would enhance white voting power and therefore grant Republicans an advantage, that was false.
3) When Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross told Congress the data would not be used for immigration enforcement, that was untrue.
4) Trump's Solicitor General Noel Francisco told the Court that the census questionnaire had to be finalized by June; the Department of Justice has now reversed that position.
More at www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/07/08/trump-administration-has-ch
anged-its-story-census-citizenship-question-least-times-four-months/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Who jumps like a trained monkey at every Trump tweet?
SECOND.
And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac
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The entire team of lawyers defending the government’s position in ongoing litigation will be replaced.
The sudden change in lawyers suggests there is some internal recognition that the government’s latest census stance has become untenable.
The Justice Department declared that Attorney General William Barr “is confident that the new team will carry on in the same exemplary fashion as the previous team as the cases progress.”
According to multiple former DOJ officials, the move would have only come if the attorneys who had been working on the case had profound reservations about the task ahead and asked to be removed.
“It’s an extremely unusual thing for an entire office to take itself off of a case in the middle of a case,” one former DOJ attorney said. “That the entire office is being substituted out really indicates something strange.”
Another former DOJ official said that the unusual move was likely because the original legal team was refusing to reverse course. “There is no reason they would be taken off that case unless they saw what was coming down the road and said, ‘I won’t sign my name to that.’ ” But 1kiki would sign.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/07/trump-census-william-barr-
john-roberts-lawyer-change.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac
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During the Cuban Missile Crisis, President Kennedy told General Curtis LeMay to either stop talking about bombing Cuba or else LeMay should leave the room. LeMay quieted himself and he stayed seated. When a President's advisor won't either shut up or talk sense, disaster will follow, like a nuclear war. Even worse is when it is the President, rather than an advisor, who cannot shut up or talk sense. Trump can't shut up about the Census. Chief Justice Roberts has politely told Trump to leave the room. But Trump insists on turning a serious and dignified case about the Census into a small, silly tragicomedy where even the government's lawyers resign from the case that their President can't stop bitching and moaning about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_LeMay#Cuban_Missile_Crisis
The Justice Dept. will have to find some new lawyers that are dumb enough to keep fighting a Supreme Court decision because that is what Trump wants.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/07/trump-roberts-supreme-cour
t-citizenship-question-census.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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It gets to the point where if they spent half of that energy using the tax system and laws we have in place to ensure that nobody without a social security number or temporary work visa could make any money as they are on the census, we might actually not have millions of people invading our country right now.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:When Trump finally starts deporting people by the thousands every weekday, then millions will stop invading. Do you remember this story? Immigration agents had been planning to sweep into several immigrant communities in 10 major cities — including Miami, Los Angeles, Baltimore and Chicago — beginning on Sunday. Officials said on Friday that they had targeted about 2,000 families in a show of force intended to demonstrate their strict enforcement of immigration laws. Children of immigrants — some of whom were born in the United States — had faced the prospect of being forcibly separated from their undocumented parents.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It gets to the point where if they spent half of that energy using the tax system and laws we have in place to ensure that nobody without a social security number or temporary work visa could make any money as they are on the census, we might actually not have millions of people invading our country right now.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
But Trump, the President himself, cancelled. He was only going after 2,000 out of 11,000,000, but he decided it was too many. That is why people are invading the country right now. When Trump finally starts deporting people by the thousands every weekday, then millions will stop invading. Trump already has all the laws he needs to deport 11,000,000 illegals and he does not need to ask the illegal if they are illegal on the Census in 2020. Trump can start deporting them by millions in 2019. But he keeps delaying.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Judge Rejects Justice Dept. Request to Change Lawyers on Census Case
The Justice Department owes the public and the courts an explanation for its unprecedented substitution of the entire legal team that has been working on this case. The Trump administration is acting like it has something to hide.
On Sunday, the Justice Department said it was replacing the legal team defending the citizenship question. It offered no explanation for the change, which came in the middle of a prolonged clash over whether the administration’s arguments for adding the question could be believed.
But on Tuesday, as a new team of lawyers began to notify the court of its appearance in the case, Judge Furman barred the old lawyers from leaving until they met a legal requirement to satisfactorily explain their departure and show that it would not impede the case. He excepted only two lawyers on the team who had already left the department’s civil division, which was overseeing the lawsuit.
“Defendants provide no reasons, let alone ‘satisfactory reasons,’ for the substitution of counsel,” he wrote, adding that their written assurance that the switch would not disrupt the case “is not good enough.”
If the department wishes to continue with the switch of legal teams, the judge wrote, the lawyers must provide sworn affidavits explaining their departures and remain under the court’s jurisdiction should they be required to return.
More at www.foxnews.com/politics/new-york-judge-denies-doj-request-to-change-l
awyers-in-census-citizenship-question-case
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
But Trump, the President himself, cancelled. He was only going after 2,000 out of 11,000,000, but he decided it was too many. That is why people are invading the country right now. When Trump finally starts deporting people by the thousands every weekday, then millions will stop invading. Trump already has all the laws he needs to deport 11,000,000 illegals and he does not need to ask the illegal if they are illegal on the Census in 2020. Trump can start deporting them by millions in 2019. But he keeps delaying.
Remember this gem? "Nobody Knew Health Care Was So Complicated"
Trump reminds me of someone on this board who thinks/pretends they're the only one to ever think about something and that only they have the answers. Like no one tried to fix health care until Trump sat down to look at it kind of ignorant. And then he was schooled by Reality. He found out lots of people have tried and have considered all the angles (dozens more than he could even dream of) and they ultimately failed BECAUSE (even he finally realized), it was really, really hard! Especially if you have to do more than just type. And then he makes sh*t up, tries a quick patch and moves on.
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Quote:All of Trump's big plans don't go anywhere because he won't pay for them. He and the GOP Senators have some vague idea that problems don't need to have carefully planned solutions with included costs.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Trump reminds me of someone on this board who thinks/pretends they're the only one to ever think about something and that only they have the answers. Like no one tried to fix health care until Trump sat down to look at it kind of ignorant. And then he was schooled by Reality. He found out lots of people have tried and have considered all the angles (dozens more than he could even dream of) and they ultimately failed BECAUSE (even he finally realized), it was really, really hard! Especially if you have to do more than just type. And then he makes sh*t up, tries a quick patch and moves on.
If Trump and the GOP were really serious about the 11,000,000 illegal aliens living inside the USA, the GOP would budget $10,000 per alien, or $20,000, for their removal. But when they do the math and see it is $110 to $220 billion, which is a small fraction of what these jackasses spend every year on their worthless Army that can't win a war, the GOP just doesn't want to pay.
The GOP doesn't have to remove all aliens in one year and pay the whole $220 billion in 2020. They could budget over 5 or 10 years, but the GOP just won't pay for it. They would much rather bitch about it and, if my experience in Texas is true for the other 49 states, the wealthiest Trump voters I know want to surreptitiously keep those 11,000,000 aliens around because they are low wage labor for the richest businesses. The Citizenship question is a very, very cheap method for the GOP to pretend they are doing something about illegal aliens.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
If Trump and the GOP were really serious about the 11,000,000 illegal aliens living inside the USA, the GOP would budget $10,000 per alien, or $20,000, for their removal. But when they do the math and see it is $110 to $220 billion, which is a small fraction of what these jackasses spend every year on their worthless Army that can't win a war, the GOP just doesn't want to pay.
The GOP doesn't have to remove all aliens in one year and pay the whole $220 billion in 2020. They could budget over 5 or 10 years, but the GOP just won't pay for it. They would much rather bitch about it and, if my experience in Texas is true for the other 49 states, the wealthiest Trump voters I know want to surreptitiously keep those 11,000,000 aliens around because they are low wage labor for the richest businesses. The Citizenship question is a very, very cheap method for the GOP to pretend they are doing something about illegal aliens.
As well as using it to keep stoking deep seated hatred from their base for those filthy brown folk from south of the border, and using it like jet fuel for their political gains. *cough*
They really are nothing more than a prop at this point.
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A second judge has denied a request from the Justice Department to switch up the legal team fighting to include a citizenship question on the 2020 census.
The latest order came Wednesday in Maryland.
In a separate case, a federal judge in New York said Tuesday the Justice Department couldn't change lawyers so late in the dispute without giving satisfactory reasons.
In a third case, a judge in San Francisco hasn't yet agreed to allow the Justice Department to replace its legal team.
www.cnbc.com/2019/07/10/second-judge-blocks-doj-request-to-change-lawy
ers-in-census-case.html
The real reason for the lawyer switch? Trump wants it. But that is not a reason Attorney General Barr wants known, since the previous lawyers resigned en masse because Trump had lied to those lawyers about the facts in the case. The lawyers lost the case only because those lies were revealed to the Supreme Court during 90 minutes of argument before the Justices. It was very traumatic for Trump's lawyers to have their case destroyed, all because of Trump and his big mouth. In real life, lawyers quit clients after they are justly convicted/sentenced and, also, guilty as hell, since most lawyers don't want the stain rubbing off on their own reputations by appealing a just sentence. But that's not something Trump would understand.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Trump caves in. Citizenship Question starting at 1 minute.
Trump’s census citizenship question fiasco, explained
www.vox.com/2019/7/11/20689015/census-citizenship-question-trump-execu
tive-order
Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts has no problem with the question itself — but blocked it because Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross gave a bogus reason.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Trump On the Census Citizenship Question:
Can you believe… “Are you a citizen of the United States of America?”
“Sir you can’t ask that question.”
“Why?”
“Because a court said you can’t.”
We have three very unfriendly courts. They fight us all the way. The judges don’t like us too much, I guess. But think of that, Herman, think of that question. “Are you a citizen?” We spend — this is another thing that’s so crazy — $20 billion on a census, $20 billion. They spend $20 billion! I said, “Twenty billion WHAT?” Twenty billion dollars. On a census. They go through houses. They go up. They ring doorbells. They talk to people. How many toilets do they have? How many desks do they have? How many beds? What’s their roof made of? The only thing we can’t ask is, are you a citizen of the United States? Isn’t it the craziest thing? Twenty billion. Pretty amazing.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/07/trump-social-media-summit.
html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by second:
If Trump and the GOP were really serious about the 11,000,000 illegal aliens living inside the USA, the GOP would budget $10,000 per alien, or $20,000, for their removal. But when they do the math and see it is $110 to $220 billion, which is a small fraction of what these jackasses spend every year on their worthless Army that can't win a war, the GOP just doesn't want to pay.
The GOP doesn't have to remove all aliens in one year and pay the whole $220 billion in 2020. They could budget over 5 or 10 years, but the GOP just won't pay for it. They would much rather bitch about it and, if my experience in Texas is true for the other 49 states, the wealthiest Trump voters I know want to surreptitiously keep those 11,000,000 aliens around because they are low wage labor for the richest businesses. The Citizenship question is a very, very cheap method for the GOP to pretend they are doing something about illegal aliens.
As well as using it to keep stoking deep seated hatred from their base for those filthy brown folk from south of the border, and using it like jet fuel for their political gains. *cough*
They really are nothing more than a prop at this point.
Dude. My step dad is Mexican. His mom and dad came here legally. He was the youngest of ten kids, and they all grew up in a train box car while picking cotton in the fields all day. He was the first in his family to get a college degree.
HE talks about border control more than anybody I know. ESPECIALLY when they were living in Arizona.
Ya'll can stick it up your ass with that "hate brown people" stuff already.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:Quote:Dude. My step dad is Mexican. His mom and dad came here legally. He was the youngest of ten kids, and they all grew up in a train box car while picking cotton in the fields all day. He was the first in his family to get a college degree.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:As well as using it to keep stoking deep seated hatred from their base for those filthy brown folk from south of the border, and using it like jet fuel for their political gains. *cough*
Originally posted by second:
If Trump and the GOP were really serious about the 11,000,000 illegal aliens living inside the USA, the GOP would budget $10,000 per alien, or $20,000, for their removal. But when they do the math and see it is $110 to $220 billion, which is a small fraction of what these jackasses spend every year on their worthless Army that can't win a war, the GOP just doesn't want to pay.
The GOP doesn't have to remove all aliens in one year and pay the whole $220 billion in 2020. They could budget over 5 or 10 years, but the GOP just won't pay for it. They would much rather bitch about it and, if my experience in Texas is true for the other 49 states, the wealthiest Trump voters I know want to surreptitiously keep those 11,000,000 aliens around because they are low wage labor for the richest businesses. The Citizenship question is a very, very cheap method for the GOP to pretend they are doing something about illegal aliens.
They really are nothing more than a prop at this point.
HE talks about border control more than anybody I know. ESPECIALLY when they were living in Arizona.
Ya'll can stick it up your ass with that "hate brown people" stuff already.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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It sounds like Trump is working on an Executive Order to include this Question. Sounds like he has already directed all Agencies to cooperate with Commerce Dept (which does Census) to provide all available information regarding Citizens, non-citizens, Illegal Aliens, etc.
I wonder if this will be included as a package of actions for SCOTUS to consider en masse when weighing this subject next.
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I've got to say at this point everybody should just let it go.
The census doesn't ask for you or anybody living in your place's social security number. As was pointed out before, all you have to do is lie and say that you aren't an illegal immigrant. This wouldn't help anybody out in fighting illegeal immigration in the slightest.
Why not change tack though?
Just require social security numbers on the census?
Kill two birds with one stone that way. Nobody without one could even fill it out. You could also make sure that everyone who is legally living here is filling it out as well.
Punishment for not filling out your info or the info of those living with you shouldn't be anything severe like jail time or fines. But you could withhold any government benefits or drivers license renewals for those who didn't fill it out until they do.
You could really kill three birds this way, actually. There wouldn't be really any more need for those census takers (and scammers) going door to door to try to enforce that they be filled out if you penalize people and inconvenience their lives for not doing so. I would think with just those two punishments listed above you're going to ensure that nearly every legal US citizen fills it out.
I mean, who want's to miss out on their food stamps, their social security, their medicare or lose their ability to drive for a few weeks while they get it squared away after their drivers license expires?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:The long history of the citizenship question as a political weapon wielded by racists and xenophobes
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I've got to say at this point everybody should just let it go.
A question about naturalization in the 1890 census came with the rise of a virulent campaign against immigrants. One of the campaign’s principal leaders was the superintendent of censuses, Gen. Francis Amasa Walker.
General Walker became increasingly obsessed with what he saw as the pollution of the American genetic strain by inferior immigrants.
Seeking to pin down the nation’s lineage, he adjusted the 1880 census to inquire about not only the respondents’ birthplaces, but their parents’ as well. Later, he backed an 1882 law that banned Chinese immigrant labor, and he called immigrants from Italy, Hungary, Austria and Russia “beaten men from beaten races, representing the worst failures in our struggle for existence.”
There was a subtext to that furor: The immigrants were settling in major cities, swelling their populations and increasing their political power. And the cities, then as now, were Democratic bastions in a nation that was largely under Republican control.
More at https://attentiontotheunseen.com/2019/07/12/the-long-history-of-the-ci
tizenship-question-as-a-political-weapon-wielded-by-racists-and-xenophobes/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:The long history of the citizenship question as a political weapon wielded by racists and xenophobes
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I've got to say at this point everybody should just let it go.
Fuck you.
Don't you ever get tired of yourself?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:Don't you ever get tired having people in Indiana either ignore your plight or take advantage of you or pretend you don't exist? That won't happen if you figured out people's real motives, the ones they won't tell you directly.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:The long history of the citizenship question as a political weapon wielded by racists and xenophobes
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I've got to say at this point everybody should just let it go.
Fuck you.
Don't you ever get tired of yourself?
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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I haven't been in this thread until now. The question of citizenship seems so obvious and so straightforward that I can't see why it SHOUDN'T be on the census. It has nothing to do with racism. If you're figuring out voting districts and numbers of representatives, then it seems straighforward to me that you should be using potential voters .... citizens... as your base of calculation, not non-citizens who don't have the power to vote.
Why are we even still talking about this?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:Because Chief Justice Roberts ruled that Trump lied about the reasons for the Citizenship Question on the Census. Trump could have added the question, but he had to give the real reason:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I haven't been in this thread until now. The question of citizenship seems so obvious and so straightforward that I can't see why it SHOUDN'T be on the census. It has nothing to do with racism. If you're figuring out voting districts and numbers of representatives, then it seems straighforward to me that you should be using potential voters .... citizens... as your base of calculation, not non-citizens who don't have the power to vote.
Why are we even still talking about this?
"And yet, viewing the evidence as a whole, we share the District Court's conviction that the decision to reinstate a citizenship question cannot be adequately explained in terms of DOJ's request for improved citizenship data to better enforce the VRA. Several points, considered together, reveal a significant mismatch between the decision the Secretary made and the rationale he provided."
www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/18pdf/18-966_bq7c.pdf
In short, Trump lied. To the Supreme Court. And Chief Justice Roberts was aware he was being lied to. And he decided to punish the liar.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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So what? The citizenship question has been in the Census for decades, it makes sense that it should be there. AS USUAL, SECONDRATE, you're turning another event into your own personal crusade against ... well, whoever you're targeting at the moment.
Give it a rest. Quarantine your sense of butt-hurt once in a while and you'll make more sense.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:The deal is that Trump lied to Chief Justice Roberts, who wrote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So what? The citizenship question has been in the Census for decades, it makes sense that it should be there. AS USUAL, SECONDRATE, you're turning another event into your own personal crusade against ... well, whoever you're targeting at the moment.
Give it a rest. Quarantine your sense of butt-hurt once in a while and you'll make more sense.
Finally, we have recognized a narrow exception to the general rule against inquiring into "the mental processes of administrative decisionmakers.” On a "strong showing of bad faith or improper behavior" such an inquiry may be warranted and may justify extra-record discovery.
www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/18pdf/18-966_bq7c.pdf
Trump did not answer Robert's questions about his "mental processes". The only way to get the truth out of Trump was for Roberts to deny Trump until Trump told the truth. But rather than tell the truth, Trump gave up on adding the Citizenship Question to the Census. Is that too hard for you to understand, 1kiki/Signym? It is all there in the Supreme Court's decision.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Here's another one of your hobby-horses, broken:
Quote:
Prosecutors To Drop Trump Org Investigation With No Charges
A months-long federal investigation into whether Trump organization officials violated campaign finance laws appears to be coming to a close without a single charge being filed, according to CNN, citing people familiar with the matter.
Trump org CFO Allen Weisselberg
New York federal prosecutors have been investigating whether company executives broke the law, "including in their effort to reimburse Michael Cohen for hush-money payments he made to women alleging affairs with his former boss, President Donald Trump," according to the report.
In recent weeks, however, their investigation has quieted, the people familiar with the inquiry said, and prosecutors now don't appear poised to charge any Trump Organization executives in the probe that stemmed from the case against Cohen.
In January, one month after Cohen was sentenced to three years in prison, prosecutors requested interviews with executives at the company, CNN reported. But prosecutors never followed up on their initial request, people familiar with the matter said, and the interviews never took place.
Meanwhile, there has been no contact between the Manhattan US Attorney's office and officials at the Trump Organization in more than five months, one person familiar with the matter said. -CNN
One of these days, SECOND, I hope you untwist your brain enough to see reality. Not holding my breath, tho; you're driven by a near lifelong revenge, like Captain Ahab.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Dude. My step dad is Mexican. His mom and dad came here legally. He was the youngest of ten kids, and they all grew up in a train box car while picking cotton in the fields all day. He was the first in his family to get a college degree.
HE talks about border control more than anybody I know. ESPECIALLY when they were living in Arizona.
Ya'll can stick it up your ass with that "hate brown people" stuff already.
Whatever. Jack's bored again.
"Ya'll can stick up your ass (if you can find it) for being too dumb to see the obvious." Trump hates non white immigrants with a burning passion. He's happy they are living in filth and their kids are being separated and their situation is crap and even more so that Democrats are weeping about it all over MSM tv. Fear is a great motivator - pain compliance. He knows his base better than you do.
And WTF does your step Dad being Mexican have to do with anything (if that story is even remotely true)? I'm white and I hate dumb ass white people.
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How do you know that Trump hates non-whites, CEREALMUSH? Are you mind-reading again? Do you have magic powers you haven't disclosed? Do you have EVIDENCE (no, not someone else's opinions ... you need quotes with links FROM TRUMP)?
Or are you straw-manning AS USUAL in your 'reverse the vote' efforts?
And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac
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Quote:On page 33 out of 92, Chief Justice Roberts wrote that Signym is a barking mad dog:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
One of these days, SECOND, I hope you untwist your brain enough to see reality. Not holding my breath, tho; you're driven by a near lifelong revenge, like Captain Ahab.
"We are presented, in other words, with an explanation for agency action that is incongruent with what the record reveals about the agency’s priorities and decisionmaking process. It is rare to review a record as extensive as the one before us when evaluating informal agency action — and it should be. But having done so for the sufficient reasons we have explained, we cannot ignore the disconnect between the decision made and the explanation given. Our review is deferential, but we are “not required to exhibit a naivete from which ordinary citizens are free.”
The reasoned explanation requirement of administrative law, after all, is meant to ensure that agencies offer genuine justifications for important decisions, reasons that can be scrutinized by courts and the interested public. Accepting contrived reasons would defeat the purpose of the enterprise. If judicial review is to be more than an empty ritual, it must demand something better than the explanation offered for the action taken in this case."
www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/18pdf/18-966_bq7c.pdf
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Persuasive - NOT.
HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha ha ha ha ha ...
Laughing at you, not with you.
And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac
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Quote:This is the first part of the decision. So far, these all sound like very good reasons to include the question.
In order to apportion congressional representatives among the States, the
Constitution requires an “Enumeration” of the population every 10 years, to be made “in such Manner” as Congress “shall by Law direct,”
I,§2, cl.3; Amdt. 14, §2.
In the Census Act, Congress delegated to the Secretary of Commerce the task of conducting the decennial census “in such form and content as he may determine.”
13U. S. C. §141(a).
The Secretary is aided by the Census Bureau, a statistical agency in the Department of Commerce. The population count is also used to allocate federal funds to the States and to draw electoral districts. The census additionally serves as a means of collecting demographic information used for a variety of purposes. There have been 23 decennial censuses since 1790. All but one between 1820 and 2000 asked at least some of the population about their citizenship or place of birth. The question was asked of all households until 1950, and was asked of a fraction of the population on an alternative long-form questionnaire between 1960 and 2000.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:First part? How about the last part? The part where the Chief Justice wrote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
This is the first part of the decision. So far, these all sound like very good reasons to include the question.
"We do not hold that the agency decision here was substantively invalid. But agencies must pursue their goals reasonably. Reasoned decisionmaking under the Administrative Procedure Act calls for an explanation for agency action. What was provided here was more of a distraction."
Trump could have gotten his Citizenship Question on the Census, but he lied until his head fell off, which the Chief Justice noticed, and that Trump's explanations were "more of a distraction" rather than "reasoned decisionmaking".
Page 33 of 92, www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/18pdf/18-966_bq7c.pdf
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Dude. My step dad is Mexican. His mom and dad came here legally. He was the youngest of ten kids, and they all grew up in a train box car while picking cotton in the fields all day. He was the first in his family to get a college degree.
HE talks about border control more than anybody I know. ESPECIALLY when they were living in Arizona.
Ya'll can stick it up your ass with that "hate brown people" stuff already.
Whatever. Jack's bored again.
"Ya'll can stick up your ass (if you can find it) for being too dumb to see the obvious." Trump hates non white immigrants with a burning passion. He's happy they are living in filth and their kids are being separated and their situation is crap and even more so that Democrats are weeping about it all over MSM tv. Fear is a great motivator - pain compliance. He knows his base better than you do.
Once again, you have no proof that he hates anybody. You hate him. I know you won't argue that. So you believe what you want to believe about him and say whatever it is you want to say about him. Then you insult people who don't believe the shit you make up.
Quote:
And WTF does your step Dad being Mexican have to do with anything (if that story is even remotely true)?
Have I ever once here given you the impression that I'm lying about anything in my real life?
Sure... It's easy for me to not believe somebody like Second who says that they're rich every single day. Lying about being rich is very easy to do. Who lies about being desperate enough to get a racoon out of the attic that while they were ammonia bombing their attic they actually thought long and hard about dropping trow and peeing on the raccoon's shit up there?
I've talked about my step-dad and his heritage quite a few times over the years. Believe it or don't believe it.
Him being Mexican alone has nothing to do with nothing. Him being a child of LEGAL Mexican parents who came here and struggled to make their children's lives better the right way, and then being the STRONGEST and LOUDEST supporter for border control I know DOES.
Quote:
I'm white and I hate dumb ass white people.
Good for you. I've already beat you to that too. I'm sure you could dig up where I've said that 90% of the people I knew growing up were white and I couldn't stand at leas 70% of them.
What? Do you want a cookie?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Once again, you have no proof that he hates anybody. You hate him. I know you won't argue that. So you believe what you want to believe about him and say whatever it is you want to say about him. Then you insult people who don't believe the shit you make up.
I find it insulting for anyone to suggest that with all of the evidence and public behavior, that Trump isn't a huge racist. I tried denying it at first because I didn't want to believe it, but the evidence is enormous. Hey look, he just retweeted another giant racist:
Twitter:
"Anyone think it's noteworthy that *any* US president is retweeting Katie Hopkins--who's called migrants "cockroaches" and "feral humans," endorsed racial profiling, and called for internment camps and a "final solution" against Muslims--at all?"
I suppose you have a good reason/excuse for yet another obvious tell...
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Have I ever once here given you the impression that I'm lying about anything in my real life?
You have given me the impression that you lie to yourself frequently.
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Who lies about being desperate enough to get a racoon out of the attic that while they were ammonia bombing their attic they actually thought long and hard about dropping trow and peeing on the raccoon's shit up there?
Damn dude - you're making a fire bomb in your attic. $30 buck at Amazon:
It really works and you can reuse it over and over. My dad would catch all kinds of nusance animals and we'd run them out to the country. Sh*t, you could rid your neighborhood of raccoons. People pay good money for that service btw, especially in the nice part of town where people just write the damn check. RaccoonJack.com - market yourself as some hill jack who has spent his whole life with raccoons, "I had my first 'coon for a pet when I was 4!" Damn, I want a commission check for every raccoon you catch!
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Him being a child of LEGAL Mexican parents who came here and struggled to make their children's lives better the right way, and then being the STRONGEST and LOUDEST supporter for border control I know DOES.
I'm 100% for border control. But this isn't the way to do it unless you're some kind of third world shit hole with a b-hole despot running things.
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Good for you. I've already beat you to that too. I'm sure you could dig up where I've said that 90% of the people I knew growing up were white and I couldn't stand at leas 70% of them.
You're missing the point - it's not a contest.
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Do you actually know WHAT it was that Trump retweeted? The actual text? Or are you just taking somebody's word for it that it was racist?
Because *I* looked it up.
And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac
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Quote:1kiki, you did not look it up. Is this not racist? Are you sure it's not?
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Do you actually know WHAT it was that Trump retweeted? The actual text? Or are you just taking somebody's word for it that it was racist?
Because *I* looked it up.
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump tweeted:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381394234941448
So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly......
5:27 AM - 14 Jul 2019
....and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....
....it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!
I think Trump was going off half cocked about Puerto Ricans, not realizing they are born American Citizens, but who knows how little Trump knows? The Jones-Shafroth Act — enacted on March 2, 1917 — granted citizenship to Puerto Ricans. Check the Library of Congress at www.loc.gov/rr/hispanic/1898/jonesact.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote that quote, SLOPPY SECONDS. Every single word - in order, without reformatting, exactly as tweeted. And defend exactly HOW it's racist.
Or STFU.
And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
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Quote:1kiki, go back to Russia, you trolling bitch! Remember that, 1kiki? You were going to sue me about that, but I don't see anything racist or inflammatory or libelous, which are in the eye the beholder. Then why did you and Signym go to a lawyer about me? Explain it to me, 1kiki. Why didn't the two of you sue?
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote that quote, SLOPPY SECONDS. Every single word - in order, without reformatting. And defend how exactly HOW it's racist.
Or STFU.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Trump labeled as ‘Racist in Chief’ after his latest tweetstorm
More about the #RacistInChief hashtag at
www.marketwatch.com/story/president-donald-trump-labeled-as-racist-in-
chief-after-his-latest-tweetstorm-2019-07-14
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Not racist.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:You're not racist? Oh, your Mexican stepfather makes you not racist, but Trump's father was a Nazi sympathizer so Donald can't use that as an excuse. Trump is a racist, in his words and his actions.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Not racist.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Before you go clutching your pearls and extolling the virtues of “civility,” let me say this: Put a sock in it.
Trump's racism is not a new revelation, nor is it something that we can continue to ignore as though it were coming from a drunk uncle at the family barbecue. The Emperor is naked and every person talking about his clothes as Trump cheerfully bares his ass is part of the problem.
"Trump's most openly racist rhetoric yet is not at all surprising"
www.cnn.com/2019/07/14/politics/trump-racist-tweets-progressive-democr
atic-congresswomen-aoc/index.html
The whole pretense that he is not a white supremacist is silly. It won't make any difference to his supporters. Trump could stop pretending and just start wearing the KKK hood and he will still keep his 43% approval rating. He won in 2016 with 46.1% of the vote. All he needs in 2020 is 43% + 3.1% to repeat his 2016 win. I think being a genuine, admitted racist will get him that 3.1%. Americans will love the new Trump's authenticity.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Whatever, idiot.
Same old shit we've been hearing for three fuckin' years now.
How's that working out for you, loser?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote that quote, SLOPPY SECONDS. Every single word - in order, without reformatting. And defend how exactly HOW it's racist.
Or STFU.
Quote:So, you couldn't prove your point and had to resort to libel?
Originally posted by SLOPPY SECONDS:
1kiki, go back to Russia, you trolling bitch! Remember that, 1kiki? You were going to sue me about that, but I don't see anything racist or inflammatory or libelous, which are in the eye the beholder. Then why did you and Signym go to a lawyer about me? Explain it to me, 1kiki. Why didn't the two of you sue?
Way to prove to everyone you're a stupid piece of cum and completely out of touch with the factual world.
And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:1kiki, go back to Russia, you trolling bitch! Remember that, 1kiki? You were going to sue me about that, but I don't see anything racist or inflammatory or libelous, which are in the eye the beholder. Then why did you and Signym go to a lawyer about me? Explain it to me, 1kiki. Why didn't the two of you sue?
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote that quote, SLOPPY SECONDS. Every single word - in order, without reformatting. And defend how exactly HOW it's racist.
Or STFU.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Oh dear. You STILL don't understand libel law? Defamation is anything that you communicate that 1) isn't provably true and 2) could harm the reputation of the person that you're defaming and 3) isn't about a "public person" (in which case a more stringent threshold applies). Libel is simply defamation in written form.
Quote that quote, SLOPPY SECONDS. Every single word - in order, without reformatting. And defend how exactly HOW it's racist.
Or STFU.- KIK
1kiki, go back to Russia, you trolling bitch! Remember that, 1kiki? You were going to sue me about that, but I don't see anything racist or inflammatory or libelous, which are in the eye the beholder.
Go look it up SECONDRATE. For such a "smart" person you seem disconnected from reality.
Quote:Well, I didn't go to a lawyer, but I'd sure as hell be happy to add my case to KIKI's. As for suing ... I'm busy. But you've had plenty of time and warning to correct your defamation. And some day, I won't be so busy.
Then why did you and Signym go to a lawyer about me? Explain it to me, 1kiki. Why didn't the two of you sue?
BTW, my trollish friend: HOW is what Trump posted "racist"? Just, yanno, so you don't forget to answer the question.
*****
KIKI, you're masterful at getting under SECONDRATE's skin! I wish I had your talent! Congrats!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Sheepish bow - thanks. I try to needle SECOND whenever it lies - which is often.
And yeah, I've been busy too.
But my point still stands. Nobody who called Trump a racist who used that tweet as 'evidence' seems *quite* able to post that entire tweet, word for word, and explain what's racist about it. Apparently we're just supposed to take their word on it - for whatever the word of chronic liars is worth.
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Of-topic: I could use your brain on Medicare reform in the "Platform" thread. As I recall you had some very specific things to say about medicare and how it paid for diagnostic criteria, and I'd sure like to discuss that with you!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:Remember those stairs you are building that were eaten by insects? The replacement wood should have been pressure treated wood. A paint job is not enough to keep the insects away. You are not as knowledgeable as you think you are. You are a slow carpenter. You are a slow learner about other things, too, including Trump.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Whatever, idiot.
Same old shit we've been hearing for three fuckin' years now.
How's that working out for you, loser?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58882&mid=10788
48#1078848
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:In reality, Trump lost his case at the Supreme Court on the Citizenship Question. Look it up:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh dear. You STILL don't understand libel law? Defamation is anything that you communicate that 1) isn't provably true and 2) could harm the reputation of the person that you're defaming and 3) isn't about a "public person" (in which case a more stringent threshold applies). Libel is simply defamation in written form.
Go look it up SECONDRATE. For such a "smart" person you seem disconnected from reality.
Trump Lied to the Supreme Court, and Four Justices Don’t Care
www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/trumps-census-case-confessio
n/593488/
The White House insisted allegations that it wanted to add a citizenship question to the survey for political reasons were conspiracy theories, right up until the moment the president confirmed them.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Trump Wants to Use ‘Citizenship Data’ to Gerrymander Democracy
www.thenation.com/article/trump-census-citizenship-data-gerrymander-de
mocracy/
The latest vehicle for advancing the mission is an executive order, outlined by Trump in his Rose Garden appearance on Thursday, that seeks to collect so-called “citizenship data” collected from federal agencies, with an eye toward identifying what the president refers to as the “voter eligible population.”
“Some states may want to draw districts based on voter eligible population,” announced Trump, signaling a clear interest in using the narrower and more Republican-friendly—data sets to guide reapportionment and redistricting decisions made by Republican-controlled state legislatures.
Congressional and legislative districts drawn based on Census data are designed as a reflection of the full population that officials are elected to represent. Using more narrowly defined “Citizen Voting Age Population” would not reflect the whole population of the districts; it would, however, facilitate even more Republican-friendly gerrymandering than already exists.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Hi-larious. I made my comment about him being a rabid racist before he tweeted this! The timing is amazing.
========================================
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump tweeted:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150381394234941448
So interesting to see “Progressive” Democrat Congresswomen, who originally came from countries whose governments are a complete and total catastrophe, the worst, most corrupt and inept anywhere in the world (if they even have a functioning government at all), now loudly......
....and viciously telling the people of the United States, the greatest and most powerful Nation on earth, how our government is to be run. Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how....
....it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!
Donald J. Trump
===================================
It reminds me of the "Bus 'em back to Africa!" comments back in the 60s. How come he never makes these comments about any white people? Ever? Hahaha.
So, for 2020 he's all in on cornering the Racist Vote - good for you Donnie. I actually approciate his honesty for once!
I take exception to the talking heads that try and say he's talking about all of us - "we're all immigrants, even us white people." Nah, he ain't talking about Irish or German or even Pollocks. He's shown us who he's talking about and that's the point - he wants his racist base to know. I think it must be a bit intoxicating for closet racists to have a president who makes it ok for them to talk openly about hating non-white people. Seriosly, the whole taboo thing is on public display.
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Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump tweeted:
When will the Radical Left Congresswomen apologize to our Country, the people of Israel and even to the Office of the President, for the foul language they have used, and the terrible things they have said. So many people are angry at them & their horrible & disgusting actions!
3:54 AM - 15 Jul 2019
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150720283654938625
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump also tweeted:
If Democrats want to unite around the foul language & racist hatred spewed from the mouths and actions of these very unpopular & unrepresentative Congresswomen, it will be interesting to see how it plays out. I can tell you that they have made Israel feel abandoned by the U.S.
4:42 AM - 15 Jul 2019
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1150732346099978240
With 100% of Republicans in Congress condoning his call to deport 4 Democratic Congresspeople, all women of color, 3 born in the US, President Trump reiterates Republican hatred of women, people of color, and immigrants.
Trump's hatred is manifested in both rhetoric and policy.
With two follow-up statements in 24 hours after original racist, misogynistic, xenophobic diatribe, clearly President Trump thinks hatred of people of color, women, immigrants is a winning political position.
You do not need to agree with the policy or rhetoric of the Congresswomen, all Latino or Black, to appreciate gravity & necessity to defeat this attack by the US President on the legitimacy of citizenship rights of all US citizens, regardless of color of skin, sex, nation of birth.
On a very practical note on President Trump’s racism: to what country does he want African-American women to go? Same question for US-born children of Puerto Ricans?
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Trying to find out more info, I came across this, and I have to say, AOC has started some good old manufacturing here in the US, and by that I mean manufacturing charges of racism.
The 4 women people assume Trump was tweeting about got their moniker "the squad" in DEMOCRATIC circles after clashing with Nancy PELOSI about policy. Pelosi - that's a name from the Italian 'race', isn't it? (I mean, if you can have a Mexican 'race' (against which you can be 'racist') and a Somali 'race' and a Puerto Rican 'race' ... you can have an Italian 'race' and a French 'race' and a Swiss 'race' and ... right?)
But rather than understand that they were having well-founded differences of political opinion, AOC started huffing about PELOSI acting out of racism.
Quote:
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez says Nancy Pelosi is "singling out newly elected women of color"
Quote:Which comments are those?
"When these comments first started
Quote:But none of Pelosi's publicly available words appear to be racist.
I kind of thought that she was keeping the progressive flank at more of an arm's distance in order to protect more moderate members, which I understood," Ocasio-Cortez told The Washington Post about Pelosi. "But the persistent singling out.?.?. it got to a point where it was just outright disrespectful.?.?. the explicit singling out of newly elected women of color."
Quote:That interview is here https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/06/opinion/sunday/nancy-pelosi-pride-p
The party has been riven by infighting over the past week, sparked by an interview Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) gave to The New York Times last Sunday in which she made remarks about the freshman congresswomen that were seen by some as dismissive.
arade.html where
Quote:That was about as racist as Pelosi got.
Pelosi feels that the four made themselves irrelevant to the process by voting against “our bill,” as she put it, which she felt was the strongest one she could get. “All these people have their public whatever and their Twitter world,” she said. “But they didn’t have any following. They’re four people and that’s how many votes they got.”
“If the left doesn’t think I’m left enough, so be it,” she told me.
Later
Quote:This got reported in multiple places.
According to multiple reports, Pelosi chastised the younger members at a closed-door caucus meeting Wednesday, saying, "You got a complaint? You come and talk to me about it. But do not tweet about our members and expect us to think that that is just okay."
If anything happened soto voce within the democratic party that was racist, it wasn't reported.
Nevertheless
Quote:OMG. This is like kindergarten. WHO started it, again?
The tensions within the party escalated after Ocasio-Cortez told The Washington Post that she felt Pelosi was targeting women of color, though the New York Democrat said she doesn't believe the Speaker is racist.
The dispute was further amplified on Friday after the House Democratic Caucus's official Twitter account tore into Ocasio-Cortez's chief of staff, Saikat Chakrabarti, over comments he made about Rep. Sharice Davids (D-Kan.), who is Native American.
Quote:So,
The caucus’ criticism of Chakrabarti centered on comments he made about Rep. Sharice Davids (D-Kan.) last month.
In an exchange with a Twitter user, Chakrabarti charged that Davids was among a group of Democrats voting “as a block to criminalize immigrants.”
At that time, Davids had just voted to pass a bill for emergency federal appropriations for both humanitarian aid and security at the U.S.-Mexico border, meaning President Donald Trump’s wall.
The only Democrats who voted against the House version of the bill were Ocasio-Cortez and her so-called squad of congressional newcomers: Reps. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.), Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) and Ayanna Pressley (D-Mass.).
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Funny how these Socialists and Intolerants are euphemistically now "Progressives"
This thread was doing so well, fairly on topic, until it became yet another Troll Dumping Ground.
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Quote:What was the date that Trump attended the Supreme Court, and personally spoke to the Justices in the Courtroom?
Originally posted by second:Quote:In reality, Trump lost his case at the Supreme Court on the Citizenship Question. Look it up:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh dear. You STILL don't understand libel law? Defamation is anything that you communicate that 1) isn't provably true and 2) could harm the reputation of the person that you're defaming and 3) isn't about a "public person" (in which case a more stringent threshold applies). Libel is simply defamation in written form.
Go look it up SECONDRATE. For such a "smart" person you seem disconnected from reality.
Trump Lied to the Supreme Court, and Four Justices Don’t Care
www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/trumps-census-case-confessio
n/593488/
The White House insisted allegations that it wanted to add a citizenship question to the survey for political reasons were conspiracy theories, right up until the moment the president confirmed them.
OR ARE YOU LYING, YET AGAIN?
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Quote:The whole idea for the Citizenship Question was Trump's brainstorm. When his lawyers discovered he had been lying to them about his motives, they resigned. Then Trump had to give up on the case because he had no lawyers to tell his lies to the courts. This was only last week. Have you already forgotten? Or did you never understand what happened?
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What was the date that Trump attended the Supreme Court, and personally spoke to the Justices in the Courtroom?
OR ARE YOU LYING, YET AGAIN?
"Judge stops government lawyers quitting census question case"
www.apnews.com/637bd7eeb9f84b1cb1ed4d2d9571a062
JewelStaiteFan, take note that all 9 lawyers working on Trump's case for the Citizenship Question quit all at the same time. It wasn't 2 or 3 or 4. It was all of them. Trump completely screwed those lawyers with his lies. They knew it and that is why they quit.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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lol
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
The whole idea for the Citizenship Question was Trump's brainstorm. When his lawyers discovered he had been lying to them about his motives, they resigned. Then Trump had to give up on the case because he had no lawyers to tell his lies to the courts. This was only last week. Have you already forgotten? Or did you never understand what happened?
"Judge stops government lawyers quitting census question case"
www.apnews.com/637bd7eeb9f84b1cb1ed4d2d9571a062
JewelStaiteFan, take note that all 9 lawyers working on Trump's case for the Citizenship Question quit all at the same time. It wasn't 2 or 3 or 4. It was all of them. Trump completely screwed those lawyers with his lies. They knew it and that is why they quit.
Try some of this Sloppy. Guaranteed to relieve any libtard's Trump Derangement disease, even in the most severe cases like yours.
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Quote:What was the date that Trump attended the Supreme Court, and personally spoke to the Justices in the Courtroom?
Originally posted by second:Quote:In reality, Trump lost his case at the Supreme Court on the Citizenship Question. Look it up:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh dear. You STILL don't understand libel law? Defamation is anything that you communicate that 1) isn't provably true and 2) could harm the reputation of the person that you're defaming and 3) isn't about a "public person" (in which case a more stringent threshold applies). Libel is simply defamation in written form.
Go look it up SECONDRATE. For such a "smart" person you seem disconnected from reality.
Trump Lied to the Supreme Court, and Four Justices Don’t Care
www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/trumps-census-case-confessio
n/593488/
The White House insisted allegations that it wanted to add a citizenship question to the survey for political reasons were conspiracy theories, right up until the moment the president confirmed them.
OR ARE YOU LYING, YET AGAIN?
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Quote:Chief Justice Roberts called Trump a liar. Trump's lawyers repeated Trump's lies to the Supreme Court and Roberts decided he would not allow Trump to add the Citizenship Question to Census:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What was the date that Trump attended the Supreme Court, and personally spoke to the Justices in the Courtroom?
OR ARE YOU LYING, YET AGAIN?
Quote:www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/18pdf/18-966_bq7c.pdf
The reasoned explanation requirement of administrative law, after all, is meant to ensure that agencies offer genuine justifications for important decisions, reasons that can be scrutinized by courts and the interested public. Accepting contrived reasons would defeat the purpose of the enterprise. If judicial review is to be more than an empty ritual, it must demand something better than the explanation offered for the action taken in this case.
After Trump lost in the Supreme Court, all Trump's lawyers resigned from the case. They refused to go back to the lower Court with any new lies from Trump's mouth.
www.rawstory.com/2019/07/after-court-disaster-justice-department-puts-
new-lawyers-on-census-case/
JewelStaiteFan, as you are well aware, Trump refuses to testify under oath because to be caught perjuring is a felony, even for a President. Therefore Trump uses his lawyers to tell his lies. They are protected so long as they don't know that Trump is lying. But once they knew, they could lose their license to practice. Their only recourse was to resign from the case and let their client, Trump, find new lawyers who don't know any better. Apparently, Trump couldn't find any after every available lawyer had read the Supreme Court decision: www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/18pdf/18-966_bq7c.pdf
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:What was the date that Trump attended the Supreme Court, and personally spoke to the Justices in the Courtroom?
Originally posted by second:Quote:In reality, Trump lost his case at the Supreme Court on the Citizenship Question. Look it up:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh dear. You STILL don't understand libel law? Defamation is anything that you communicate that 1) isn't provably true and 2) could harm the reputation of the person that you're defaming and 3) isn't about a "public person" (in which case a more stringent threshold applies). Libel is simply defamation in written form.
Go look it up SECONDRATE. For such a "smart" person you seem disconnected from reality.
Trump Lied to the Supreme Court, and Four Justices Don’t Care
www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/trumps-census-case-confessio
n/593488/
The White House insisted allegations that it wanted to add a citizenship question to the survey for political reasons were conspiracy theories, right up until the moment the president confirmed them.
OR ARE YOU LYING, YET AGAIN?
Quote:When, where did Justice Roberts declare that Trump was a liar? Cite, Full quote, link?
Originally posted by second:Quote:Chief Justice Roberts called Trump a liar.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What was the date that Trump attended the Supreme Court, and personally spoke to the Justices in the Courtroom?
OR ARE YOU LYING, YET AGAIN?
Was it in a SCOTUS decision? If so, which one?
Was it at a dinner party? If so, where is the source story?
Was it on a Speaking Tour that Roberts was on? If so, when and where?
OR ARE YOU LYING, YET AGAIN?
Quote:WAIT!! WHAT??
JewelStaiteFan, as you are well aware, Trump refuses to testify under oath because to be caught perjuring is a felony, even for a President.
First you float your FAKE NEWS that Trump went to the Supreme Court and lied to them, but now your FAKE NEWS says Trump has refused to go to the Supreme Court to testify?
Even your lies contradict and conflict with your lies.
IS EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR POSTS IN THIS THREAD ALL LIES?
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So this is somewhere between the illegal immigration topic and the census citizenship question topic
LATimes Sep 3, 2019
U.S. chicken industry accused of conspiring to keep immigrant wages down
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-09-03/u-s-chicken-industry
-accused-of-conspiring-to-keep-immigrant-wages-down
NO! Really? How could that be?
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62864&p=7
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:This is the first part of the decision. So far, these all sound like very good reasons to include the question.
In order to apportion congressional representatives among the States, the
Constitution requires an “Enumeration” of the population every 10 years, to be made “in such Manner” as Congress “shall by Law direct,”
I,§2, cl.3; Amdt. 14, §2.
In the Census Act, Congress delegated to the Secretary of Commerce the task of conducting the decennial census “in such form and content as he may determine.”
13U. S. C. §141(a).
The Secretary is aided by the Census Bureau, a statistical agency in the Department of Commerce. The population count is also used to allocate federal funds to the States and to draw electoral districts. The census additionally serves as a means of collecting demographic information used for a variety of purposes. There have been 23 decennial censuses since 1790. All but one between 1820 and 2000 asked at least some of the population about their citizenship or place of birth. The question was asked of all households until 1950, and was asked of a fraction of the population on an alternative long-form questionnaire between 1960 and 2000.
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-census-undocumented-immigrants-cong
ressional-seats/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-census-undocumented-immigrants-cong
ressional-seats/
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