Paranormal experiences & Dreams
POSTED BY: piratejenny
UPDATED: Thursday, September 1, 2005 22:52
VIEWED: 14949
PAGE 6 of 10
Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
I read all of your post and I apolojise if I didn't make myself clear, I have no problem with you having a diffrent stance and I welcome anything you have to say on the subject because I find it interesting, and respect your opinion, so I'll try to address the issue as best I can.
I'm starting to have flash-backs of a thread I was involved in alittle while ago where everyone in it agreed, but no-one seemed to noticed and as such much arguing insued. It was amusing to find out and good that we notice it here before we got to that level
Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
I understand that your saying unless the scientific community has something to show, the public, that says ..yep..see here..this is true because look we can prove it, that they don't want to come out.
But don't we have to start somewhere!!
In my experience talking with those in the scientific community, they basically state that there is no conlusive evidence for this phenonima, so they are skeptical. Since this is true, I don't blame them.
But then again, in my experience in the same conversation, they state that they think that something along these lines is most likely true. But without supporting evidence...
The problem with starting research without being able to reproduce the result is, how do you know you're results are valid? Even if you know that some are, how do you know which ones are and which ones aren't? If you don't know, how can you even suggest that any results you get are anywhere near valide? You could say that you *think* that they are 85% accurate, but how do you know?
If you start from this point, you don't have science, it's something else. And this is what charletons play on.
Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
as you know and say... this subject is being researched,that being so.. any light that can be shed on it is just as great a benifit to mankind as knowlege of a cure for cancer..more so even.
I hope that's hyperbole.
Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
the point I was trying to make was..wether or not any of the paranormal metaphysical experiences can be reproduced or not, its still something thats going to have to be dealt with..there is no getting around it because its here it exsist..and a way to start doing that is acknowleging it and being aware of it, thats laying the ground work and giving a foundation to build upon..
But that ground *cannot* be shaky. It must be hard, solid ground. This is not obtainible at this point in time.
The problem of people talking about it is starting to fade away and this thread is proof of that. Time will erode this barrier further and before long, you'll only remember it existance. These societal things always take time. Hell the woman thing still isn't completely gone (better or worse depending on your location).
Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:Quote:
Science is based on the idea of reproducibility. If it isn't there, then science can say nothing, nor do anything about it. It's one of its limiting factors.
I'm just a layman, you are the scientist, but I wasn't aware of limitations being put on science
[snip]
There are *tonnes* of limitations that science has. It isn't that we say, no I can't do that, it's just a by-product of the method.
We just can't go off and think, I'm going to prove x today. We have to build on already established facts and then conjecture test ad nauseam. In time we get to a place. I think you'd be surprise just how slow things progress at the fundamental level.
But that's another descussion.
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Rupert Sheldrake
Thanks for the name. Found his site and will look at it. Should be interesting by any account.
Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
The theory that humans went through a semiaquatic stage of developement during the "missing link" period is overwhelmingly supported by morphology and no one's heard of it. Chromozonal evidence that the oldest humans were from Australia is marginalized because of the Leakey Foundation and common prejudice that the most primitive humans must have been African.
I think a lot of this is that people get set in there ways. They seek out and find something to explain something. When they find that explination they stop seeking. Which is how I'd explain the no-one hear about it. Plus the fact that you *really* have to be looking to find the new ideas.
But then again, when it comes to people coming from Africa or Australia, why can't it be both?
I believe that people become attached to some idea to the point that they there thinking becomes, I'm right and you're wrong. They don't even think of the possibility of the solution being somewhere in the middle. Something to ponder anyway
Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
No, the scientific method does not prescribe these prejudices, but human ego and rigidity do. Science can be used just like any other institution to control ideas and information and make the powerful more so.
Well the true scientist will not behave in such a way. But unfortunatly that person is getting rarer and rarer as time passes. I blame (in part) the downfall of the education system. It's a worldwide phenomina and it's getting worse.
Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Why are we still talking about this?
People still have misconceptions of what science and such are. I don't think it'll end here either.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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@Hardware:
Have there been any attempts at capturing it on tape? Such as setting up a series of cameras along where the tracks were?
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
I think a lot of this is that people get set in there ways. They seek out and find something to explain something. When they find that explination they stop seeking. Which is how I'd explain the no-one hear about it. Plus the fact that you *really* have to be looking to find the new ideas.
Dude, do you realize that you're describing religious conversion! "When they find that explaination they stop seeking!" I think this is the problem. Religiosity (in the sense of a need to find answers and beat people over the head with your results) is stronger and more deep-seated in the human psyche than the truly scientific view.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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@Sigmanuki,
Not to my knowledge. I know Hans Holzer, the noted ghost investigator, did an investigation of this site but due to newspaper coverage it turned into a media circus. I've also read on websites that the tracks were torn up, interrupting the appearance of the light.
Sad, now this sounds like a missed opportunity.
The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.
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Just a random thought; for those of us in Canada (don't know if the show's on any US networks), tune in tonight on Space to a show called Proof Positive; it's a reality-like show that takes paranormal phenomena and subjects them to scientific testing (also, it's hosted by Amanda "Maj. Carter" Tapping, for the braniac sex-appeal factor).
Quote:Heh. How drunk were they when they came up with that plan?
Originally posted by Hardware:
A short time before, a company of Fort Bragg soldiers armed with rifles decided to put an end to Joe's nightly excursions. His lantern eluded both guns and soldiers.
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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I think Proof Positive airs on Sci-Fi in the US (not sure though). I saw it a couple of weeks ago on Space, really interesting stuff.
Anyway, I just wanted to jump in and say how great this thread is (as is everyone's willingness to share their experiences and opinions) and contribute two of my own experiences.
When I was a kid I had experiences similar to what DarkJester described in one of the posts near the beginning of the thread. I would have really short dreams (more like flashes between dreams) of things that would later happen (and I would usually wake up thinking 'why would he say that?' or 'why was I there?').
The odd part was when I would remember the dream. Usually something someone said would trigger a memory of the dream and I would know how the conversation or whatever would play out for the next 15-30 seconds. I would usually try to chalk it up to deja vu, but it always felt like more than that, especially since I would remember the experience the first time (in the dream), it wasn't just feeling like I had seen this before. It happened about once a month when I was younger (I remember it happening the most when I was about 12-14). Now it rarely happens (I'm 21), of course now, I rarely remember what I dream at all.
The other experience is that when I was a child (between about 4 and 8 I think) I would feel a hand on my shoulder. There was enough pressure so that I would turn around to see who it was and there would be no one there. The pressure would last until I turned around to look. It always scared me (I think that's why I remember it).
If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. -"Angel"
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A joke: if Science is based on reproducibility, and "Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" then ....
SignyM:
When it comes to extra-physical existence, I am probably a disbeliever. I want to think that people who have died are still around, but my experience tells me otherwise. And your post about being able to reproducibly create a religious or paranormal experience through direct brain stimulation certainly adds weight to that position. But, I don't think it's a proven 'brain glitch' yet. And there could always be those things that are simply beyond our senses. So I keep an open mind and communicate with people who seem to know more than I do.
On the other hand when it comes to religion, I look at history ... All those people who sincerely believed in Mithra, or Ra, or ... who sacrificed in faith ... And where are those religions now? Dust. They were obvious products of their cultures, and they withered as the cultures did. So maybe one can find certain insights into human relations and the puzzle of existence from those people. But belief is beyond me.
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Quote:
But that ground *cannot* be shaky. It must be hard, solid ground. This is not obtainible at this point in time.
The problem of people talking about it is starting to fade away and this thread is proof of that. Time will erode this barrier further and before long, you'll only remember it existance. These societal things always take time. Hell the woman thing still isn't completely gone (better or worse depending on your location).
this thread is also proof, that the paranormal metaphysical thing isn't going away and is going to have to be dealt with (eventually)..because you can't get away from it. we both know that nothing is going to be answered in this tread, but it doesn't matter because we are talking about it, we have an open dialogue and thats good enough.
Quote:
But then again, when it comes to people coming from Africa or Australia, why can't it be both?
exactly it probably was both and since the contient of Australia use to be a part of Africa, at one point wasn't most continents one big mass it makes perfect sense
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I wasn't going to bring this up at 1rst because you guys are probably thinking damn, she's had to many paranormal experiences..but its true..as far as I know so why not
when I was about 3 maybe 4 I would say closer to 4( btw I can remember as far back as two years old) I had this nightgown..it was my favorite nighgown and I even have pictures of me in that nightgown..anyway it was yellow with short puffy sleeves and it was lacy around the hem it had a scoop neck and a highwaist and a sort of ruffled flounce
well when I was little whenever I wore that night gown I would see myself as this woman in a yellow dress that was sort of simular to the nightgown I was wearing
I have two vivid memories of myself as this woman in the yellow dress..the 1rst memory is I'm riding in a horse drawn carriage down this dirt path with lots of trees on both sides its a gray damp and drizzled day and cold I'm also wearing a yellow bonnet that matches the dress, I don't know if it really should be called a memory because at the time..it was like I was there..but even as a kid I knew the woman was myself
the second memory I'm wearing the yellow dress, but I'm standing on a platue..I'm up high on top of a building on something simular to a patio..but its not..and I'm looking out over a vast country side everything is lush and green, but I'm not happy
I think the nighgown triggered those memories of me in a past life at the time I didn't know it was a past life I was only 4 but as I got older and thought more about it I did a little research and from the dress that I was wearing..I think the time I was living in was the georgian period
Also when I was 8 one day I was in my brothers room and I was laying on the bottom bunk bed and on the top part of the bed were the top bunk was at the bottom had these various pictures on it..anyway for some reason I was concentrating really hard on the pictures and I zoned out..all of a sudden I saw myself walking down a city street I was wearing a long coat much like a trench coat and a hat and carrying a bag it started to rain.. I ran into a store to get out of the rain it was a cigar shop or a smoke shop of some sort, there was a man at the counter and he was reading a news paper and on it had something about a war..I saw myself ..but I was a man....I think it was around the 1920's maybe earlier..not really sure
I had another simular experience of zoning out and seeing myself as someone else only I don't remember how old I was..I think I was in my teens and don't really remember any of the details surrounding it..it happened really fast..but I felt tremedous happiness as I saw myself..but I'm walking down a hall way of a house..and the wall paper is sort of a cream and a faded pink big stripe wall paper I turn the corner and I come to the kitchen and I walk toward the back door and look out and theres children playing..they are my children..and thats all I see..I was a woman with dark hair and I think the period was victorian ..it was as if I could see myself walking ( not really myself but as if I had steped into someone's body and was looking at it seeing it as it was happening as if I was walking thats the best I can explain it the memory came and went quickly..but the sense of happiness and content I felt was very poweful
I refer to these experiences as memories but , thats not doing it justice because it really wasn't like a memory it didn't feel like a memory or a dream...it was like I was there I could feel the cold I could feel the rain I could smell the treess..it felt more like the time when I saw the pinpoints of lights and went to my greatgrandmothers only it was diffrent from that too!!
Those experiences got me interested in past lives, I read a book called past lives furture lives my Jenny Cockell..her experiencs have been documented I think 20/20 even did a story on her or 60 minutes if anyone is interested in past lives I would recommend her book
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