Paranormal experiences & Dreams
POSTED BY: piratejenny
UPDATED: Thursday, September 1, 2005 22:52
VIEWED: 14949
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Quote:Well, religion provides "absolute truths," things that are "certain" and that we can base our ideas of reality on. Where would we be without "Good" and "Evil?" We need the idea of Absolute Good to justify ourselves and/or tell us what to do, and of Absolute Evil to blame for our problems, failures, and weaknesses. It helps us to think that "Those People" are just Evil, and we have nothing in common with them, and so shouldn't bother trying to understand them, but just kill 'em.
Originally posted by piratejenny:
which I guess brings me back to my original thought..Its insane that Religion has such power and hold on people
Why, without religion. . . we'd have to be accountable for our own actions.
Kinda like in Jeremiah; no one to teach morals, ethics, laws. . . So what's left?
Incidentally, at least one version of the Eden story specifies that the snake wasn't actually Satan; it was just a pre-existing being that he possessed (or "corrupted"). Possibly this reflected a view that the serpent wasn't inherently Evil, but was using knowledge for Evil/destructive ends.
Quote:Thus the irony of the whole "religion vs science" debate.
Its really sad, we don't really know our own racial history as a speices on this planet, and sadly religion doesn't encourage this knowing..our own history is a mystery to us..this is crimnal..its not right...
Initially, science (and history, by association) was the anti-religion, intended to look at quantifiable, empirical evidence and form logical conclusions based on that evidence. When evidence is found that doesn't fit the model, then the model is to be dissassembled and replaced with a new model that accounts for all the evidence.
Unfortunately, sometime in the past few centuries, that all went wrong.
The "Scientific Greats" became gods themselves, and their cumulative theories took on the authority of gospel truth.
Nowadays, any evidence that doesn't match the Official Theory is repressed. If the evidence can't be repressed, the means by which the evidence was gathered is dismissed. If the procedure is beyond reproach, the scientist who presents the new data is discredited and "excommunicated" from the scientific community. Like Charles Fort ( http://www.forteantimes.com/mag_info/about.shtml), they tend to be largely dismissed, and known only to those who seek them out.
We may not have public witch-burnings anymore, but people have been known to disappear under mysterious circumstances. No word yet on whether or not blue gloves are involved, but you know how it is.
Quote:Like I said, no one wants to be branded a heretic.
..why isn't this a main topic of discussion in schools all around the world..why aren't we as a speices as the human race..not fully engaged in finding out these things..
More, no one wants to find out that their world is a lie. It tends to break people (think Mal after Serenity Valley).
Quote:Interesting use of symbolism; the protective binding circle is an Earth symbol. Perhaps the demons you're seeing are Earth spirits, inhabiting the (probably subterranean) dungeon.
Originally posted by ebonezer:
When they DO come out, you can get away from them by moving inside these rings painted on the ground. If the deamos try to come inside the ring they turn into 'good' (that is, not evil) deamons and melt into the groud.
(Cool trivia: the circle protects what's inside from things outside. Conversely, a triangle imprisons things inside it. Note that the Jewish Star of David is two triangles forming a vaguely circular shape. . .)
The fire could represent anything; likely something that you're aware of, but that your parents/society don't see, perhaps because they've been trained to look the other way. Ironic in a way, because the "wheel of fortune" is a karmic symbol (which, I guess would make Vanna White into Kali. . .).
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Note: I've quickly typed this, so if there is any agressiveness, etc in it, please don't take it as such. I just don't have the time to go over it with a fine tooth comb right now to be sure of the politically correctness 
Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Initially, science (and history, by association) was the anti-religion, intended to look at quantifiable, empirical evidence and form logical conclusions based on that evidence. When evidence is found that doesn't fit the model, then the model is to be dissassembled and replaced with a new model that accounts for all the evidence.
[snip]
Actually, initially science was religion. This is especially evident in the fact that the only people that were educated were the priests or whatever the equivalent was called. The more bold amoung them tried to describe god's great creation ("science").
You say that the theories have taken on gospel truth and that is far from the truth. The only reason why people think this is that they have no idea how the scientific community works, nor do they have much of an idea of how science works in general.
So, someone comes up with this theory to try to bring it to a level that they'd understand and people buy it because they understand that theory. After all, if someone doesn't understand something then they are forced to admitt that they aren't as smart as they think they are (or at least lack some knowledge) and that can't be, right? Because we're all special, etc.
As an example, Einstien's relativity has undergone changes since it's original creation. People have found mistakes in it and have fixed them. People are still doing research in relativity as there are still problems with it. This wouldn't happen if Einstien and his theory was taken as gospel truth. This is especially evident in the fact that is is widely regarded as not TOE.
An example of people be skeptical is string theory. The problem people have with it, is that although many find it a pretty, excellent theory, it has yet to produce even one prediction. Since it has been around for some time this makes people skeptical of it.
Also, if it relativity was gospel truth, then it would be the ultimate truth and as such, no problems would be found (or at least they would be justified somehow). Again, this is wrong as stated above.
Would you consider Stephen Wolfram to be a modern day Fort? After all, his work is widely discredited. But then again, if you look into the nature of his book "A New Kind of Science", it is a wide departure from any current way of thinking that was published by his own company and as such didn't undergo any peer review. Also, there is some other things about this man that would make anyone skeptical about his "work." But I'll stop here as it's rather OT.
If you want to get into the "Is science a religion?" discussion then read and post to:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=7799
as much has been done there already and it's rather OT here.
Now onto the topic of this thread. *taking a deep breath*
OK, a couple years ago I had this dream. I'll start here as this seems to be the topic at hand. Here's some background.
I was still living at home and we had a dog. As time went on he started to not know where he was, who people were, etc.
It got to the point, where we let him out to go to the bathroom in the backyard and when done, he'd go to the opposite corner of the yard and wait to be let in. He'd also wander around like he had no clue of where he was or where he was going (this would happen before and after he went).
It kept getting worse until I was the only one that could pet him as he'd just run away from other people. He would run into my room (away from a chasing cat) and would let me pet him and then he'd go away.
As my family tends to be loud, during the day I usually have my door closed and as such this happened typically while I was still in bed and as such had to reach off the side of my bed to pet him (th
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Quote:
Why, without religion. . . we'd have to be accountable for our own actions.
Would that really be so bad...I think its time we grew up!!
Quote:
Incidentally, at least one version of the Eden story specifies that the snake wasn't actually Satan; it was just a pre-existing being that he possessed (or "corrupted"). Possibly this reflected a view that the serpent wasn't inherently Evil, but was using knowledge for Evil/destructive ends.
there seems to be some discrepancies in the nature of Lucifer/Satan/snake/, it seems that its not clear if he was really evil...these entities seem to be interchangeable and different at times..which I'm sure comes from editing of the stories from their original context
But the Judeo Christian bible never really states what knowledge was given to Adam & Eve/ Humans...or how that knowledge was used for evil purposes..so it seems just the act alone of giving knowlege..was the reason for the punishment
Quote:
Thus the irony of the whole "religion vs science" debate.
Initially, science (and history, by association) was the anti-religion, intended to look at quantifiable, empirical evidence and form logical conclusions based on that evidence. When evidence is found that doesn't fit the model, then the model is to be disassembled and replaced with a new model that accounts for all the evidence.
I don't think that science alone has all the answers..Religion certainly does not..I think the answers lye somewhere in the middle..( one of the big problems are, nobody wants to admit that there is a middle)I think a big part of the problem is that those who understand science don't really want to take seriously or recognize religion.. in the sense that it is based on some facts. as in being based on a reality...I'm not saying its the same reality that has been handed down and packaged and presented to us....but I do think those stories are based on a reality, I think ultimately that science will come to acknowledging this but its going to take time. since truth is the ultimate goal in science...there is a better chance of that happening versus religious establishment
Its the same problem with Religion only more so, those on that side of the issue don't want to admit that science is a reality as if applies to them ,if they did that, they would have to look at those stories in a more realistic and less Supernatural way and this could be destructive to the establishment..it might lessen their hold or power on their subjects and that's not a chance they want to take..The establishment(religion) reasons for keeping knowledge away is purely selfish and self serving, and all about power
the further you look into the situation of it all the more ironic it becomes.
Just as another poster said...even religion itself comes from science..priest in the ancient days were the ones that were schooled and educated...they were what we would consider scientist today.
If science were to acknowledge based on evidence, that Gods exist..and they are responsible for this thing we call religion, and that their stories and deeds have been recorded throughout the ages and is what mythologies and bibles are based upon..then we would have to seriously look into the nature of what and who those beings are and our relation to them.
I believe that this will happen eventually if we don't kill ourselves 1rst
But this will still be a big problem for the religious establishment who's reason for keeping knowledge secret or away from their subjects is still the same reasons its always been ..they don't want to lose their power and hold over people
Then we would be looking at a real core problem..the problem of perception.. which I believe is the real problem today...how can the truth be turned into a lie.....it can happen when you can take a reality and change it until its unrecognizable..( this can happen in a variety of ways both intentional and unintentional)I think this is largely what's happened with religion so to speak
and would people even accep
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
... dreamed that my dog had ran up to me and let me pet him and then he playfully scampered off which is when I woke up.
... the next night (or the same night after I went back to sleep, can't remember, been some time) I had a similar dream. Except this time the dog, when I went to pet him, became vicious and went to attack me. At which point I woke up rather spooked.
I still don't know if my dog came back to thank me, or if he came back pissed, or if this is just my subconcious trying to deal with the whole situation.
Just my thoughts on your dream. The first dream was your dog, "free spirited", visiting you. The second one was you dreaming, thinking of the prior dream, but your subconcious possibly feeling guilty for having to put him to sleep, created the angry dog.
Keeper of Jayne's goggles. 8)
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This is a really interesting thread. It's great that you guys are so open about discussing this all in depth.
I don't really think I've had paranormal experiences, though my mom has had a bit of objects moving and things turning themselves on. But that was in my Aunt's house...
I do have a house with a high chance of actually being a place to have a paranormal encounter. A friend of mine's mom told me about her cousin that lived in my house before we moved in. They had two sons, one much older than the other. During the winter, the younger son would play in the snow and would occasionally run out onto the lake to get his toys that rolled out onto the frozen ice. If he ever fell through into the water, his brother had a crane (or something similar, I guess) that could get him out, but I don't think it ever happened. Until I guess one day, the younger son's ball rolled out onto the ice, and he ran out to get it. The ice must've been too thin, because he fell through. He drowned because his brother wasn't around to get him out.
Even though they strained the lake and got the body, I guess it would be an interesting place to explore the different things you could do. I've known the little history of my home since I was in 1st grade (7th, now) and I've always wondered about that lake. The previously mentioned friend and I have talked about doing a séance, but I'm not sure if we could ever get around to it. *Shrug*
Just my little random comment. ^_^
"Bwaa...it's kind of a warrior...strikes fear into the hearts of..."
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My comments on religion: I always thought it was funny when religious people said the gods are powerful and unknowable, and then said you have to listen to them b/c they had the gods all figured out and under their control. Talk about a fast circular spin. That's why I like the Tao, it starts out: the path that can be named is not the path.
But I do sometimes wonder if some of the religious myths carry a trace of the human transformation: before and after language (~ a mere 100,000 yrs ago), before and after clothes (~ 50,000 yrs ago). Aborigines talk about the 'dream time', the bible talks about knowledge of good and evil (language?), nakedness and shame, and eviction from Eden (human trek out of Africa?).
As to mysterious experiences, I've been pretty deprived. I have had only a few relatively benign experiences (that I couldn't otherwise explain). One example that happened to me when I was awake: I was sitting with a bunch of undergrad and grad students around a table. Then I sort of went away -
- I was a teenager in a small, low, log cabin (dirt floor, one door, one window with a closed shutter next to the door), sitting on the only chair, facing the fireplace with my back to the door, which was closed. It was at night, it was dark except for the fire, and I was alone. I was waiting for someone to come home, and I had a feeling that I would be ready to peacefully wait for ... as long as it took. Then I had the impression of white wings fluttering and bright sunlight. The strange thing was when I came to, it was like I was being boot-strapped from infancy. There was this sensation that was bothering me, which got resolved into light, then color, then shapes (corners and lines), then identifiable objects (books), and from that, an identity (my books) and knowledge of who I was and where I was. I was looking down, but I KNEW that the person sitting next to me had turned to me and was leaning my way to say something (they'd noticed). So to forestall a conversation I didn't want to get into, I yawned and shifted, and I knew that the person turned back to the rest of the people at the table. I knew what other people at the table were doing as well, and I confirmed it later from a couple of others there. It was as if I could sense their electric fields.
Also, I swear, things turn off and things fall down when I get near them - within 30 feet or so.
SigmaNunki - I'd be willing to get into that.
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You know there are supposed to be three stages of Deities we have gone through. The first stage deity represents power. The classic "thunder god" such as Zeus.
The second stage deity represents justice. The G*d of Judaism working through Moses to free his people from slavery is supposed to be a second stage deity.
The third stage deity is supposed to represent love and acceptance. If there is a 4th stage it hasn't been quantified yet.
Myself, I believe there will come a time when our science and mythology will mesh. Religion and the physical world will become one. Physicists are working on a unified field theory that will explain how any sort of energy (and by extension matter) is related to and interchangeable with a like measure of another form of energy.
Take this a step further from the physical world and into the metaphysical and that is where I am aiming. All energy, matter, metaphysical beings or events are related and fungible. I have never seen a barrier dividing science and religion and I think those that do are being a bit too literal minded, YMMV.
The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
The third stage deity is supposed to represent love and acceptance. If there is a 4th stage it hasn't been quantified yet.
Serenity.
(
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
I have never seen a barrier dividing science and religion and I think those that do are being a bit too literal minded, YMMV.
Aside from the two being completely different, your right. I'll only talk about energy as that seems to be the topic.
Science is a description of what engery is and does by our empirical studies. We then create theory on it and predict more. The cycle continues. It also studies how it might work and be controlled.
Religion is the *belief* of what it all *means*. By definition this is outside the realm of science.
What you are talking about is metaphysics, not science. Very *very* different.
It doesn't mean that one is better than the other. It just means that they are different. Some would say complementary. Basically, just because things run in parallel doesn't mean that they are equal. And just because some things use the same word, doesn't mean they are the same thing (ie energy).
As an example, if I hold a coaster at 1 meter above the ground it will have a certain amount of potential energy. If I let it go it's potential will become kinetic energy until it hits the ground. At that time that energy will be transformed into heat, compression of the ground, etc.
This is not the same "energy" that people talk about when they say, "Let's send healing energy to someone that is sick."
Things can be very differnt when spoken about in different contexts.
progress update: The mailing list is almost setup and will most likely be done tonight
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
The third stage deity is supposed to represent love and acceptance. If there is a 4th stage it hasn't been quantified yet.
Serenity.
(
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
Awesome!
I likes
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