The Caravan, The Deficit, The 14th Amendment and the Trump Narrative
POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 1, 2026 23:15
VIEWED: 4936
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Thanks for changing the title, it makes a lot more sense now!
Not sure if you were here then, but at one time ANYone could change the title. All anyone needed to do was click on the OP and it would show edit thread. It was a source of hi-larious, if malicious, fun, but it made following any particular discussion impossible because the title would often change many times a day. (Still, it WAS funny!)
*****
So, back to Trump: In some ways, that's exactly what I think Trump is doing. Good catch!
But OTOH, so does the deep state and its ever-obedient M$M. Man, there were SO MANY reasons to invade Iraq it was enough to make my head spin!
9-11!
Fight terrorists there so we don't have to fight them here!
Aluminum tubes!
YELLOWCAKE!
Biological weapons!
Don't let the first clue of a nuclear weapons program be a mushroom cloud!
Saddam gassed his own people!
Palace inspections!
East, west, north, south somewhat of Baghdad.
Or just look at what's happening to Trump:
Russian collusion!
Obstruction!
Unstable!
Family separation!
Kavanaugh!
Kashoggi! (HOW MANY stories came out about this? He was beaten to death. No, he was injected with an unknown substance. He was dismembered while still alive. Horrible screams were heard. No, he was suffocated as soon as he got in the door. ... But what about those screams? You can't scream if you're being suffocated.... All of this is Erdogan's way of keeping the pressure on Saudi Arabia and the USA so it can extract more concessions.)
Caravan!
Synagogue shooting!
ALL sides play the press as much as possible. Trump doesn't have the cooperation of the USA press like the deep state does, so he has to take a different approach.
In order not to be spun around by all of these conflicting biases, I think people really need to line up, in their own minds, what they think needs to be done first, what is more fundamental, and what comes after. For example, IMHO the USA can't possibly think to enforce ANY regulations ... not even global warming ones ... as long as the final adjudication takes place in a secret trade tribunal on the basis of "normal and expected profit".
And the USA will not be able to craft a reasonable health care plan if millions of poor people are flooding into the USA with their previously unmet health needs. We have that problem in CA ... some of our more progressive politicians want to implement health care for ALL residents of CA (citizen or not) but it's impossible to find the funding to do that. Heck, we can't even deal with our own large homeless population.
It's not that I don't want Medicare for all, or environmental regulation, but having been in the regulatory arena for much of my professional life I will tell you that when it's cheaper to ship parts to China for chrome plating and ship them back for sale than it is to institute pollution controls here, regulation is a hard row to hoe unless some parity is brought between our two [sovereign] nations. The decision has to be made on something more than "market forces" - "national interest" should come in there somewhere.
So it's a discussion that really needs to take place, at least internally, otherwise these rapid changes of focus can leave anyone disoriented. I've thought pretty hard about all of this, which is why SECOND and the rest piss me off by assuming that I'm some sort of redneck racist.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I've thought pretty hard about all of this, which is why SECOND and the rest piss me off by assuming that I'm some sort of redneck racist.
Don't worry Sigs. You're just a redneck racist today. I'm sure you'll be a Russian bot again tomorrow.
It all depends on what's in the news tomorrow and what their preprogrammed responses to reason are.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:There won’t be a Californian version of medicare-for-all because the richest 50% of Californians won't pay for the poorest 50%. The rich will vote against it.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And the USA will not be able to craft a reasonable health care plan if millions of poor people are flooding into the USA with their previously unmet health needs. We have that problem in CA ... some of our more progressive politicians want to implement health care for ALL residents of CA (citizen or not) but it's impossible to find the funding to do that. Heck, we can't even deal with our own large homeless population.
It's not that I don't want Medicare for all . . .
But if there was a political miracle, and medicare-for-all became law in CA, it would be easy to keep illegal aliens out of the doctor’s office using the same method that keeps people younger than 65 out of Medicare run by DC, not by CA. It is called your Medicare number on your Medicare ID card. Works perfectly. It kept me out until I turned 65. It will keep illegal aliens out. California simply refuses to issue a CA-Medicare card to illegal aliens, just the same as Washington DC refused to issue me a DC-Medicare card until I was old.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Obviously you don't know California. There isn't a "richest 50%", it's more like a "richest 5%".
There won’t be a Californian version of medicare-for-all because the richest 50% of Californians won't pay for the poorest 50%. The rich will vote against it.
Quote:And just as obviously, you don't know CA politics. The people who're pushing for universal coverage in CA aren't pushing for universal coverage just for citizens, they're pushing for universal coverage for EVERY resident, legal or not. Considering CA's "sanctuary" policy plus the fact that somewhere between 5-10% represent illegal aliens, that's a huge number of unfunded people to cover.
But if there was a political miracle, and medicare-for-all became law in CA, it would be easy to keep illegal aliens out of the doctor’s office using the same method that keeps people younger than 65 out of Medicare run by DC, not by CA. It is called your Medicare number on your Medicare ID card. Works perfectly. It kept me out until I turned 65. It will keep illegal aliens out. California simply refuses to issue a CA-Medicare card to illegal aliens, just the same as Washington DC refused to issue me a DC-Medicare card until I was old.
If they would restrict their plan to citizens, that would be a plan I could get behind.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:Signym, you are lying, again. Business and health care organizations in California have joined forces to oppose any effort to craft a universal, single-payer health care system for the nation’s largest state. Who wants Medicare for all? The California Nurses Association. Nobody else.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Obviously you don't know California. There isn't a "richest 50%", it's more like a "richest 5%".
There won’t be a Californian version of medicare-for-all because the richest 50% of Californians won't pay for the poorest 50%. The rich will vote against it.Quote:And just as obviously, you don't know CA politics. The people who're pushing for universal coverage in CA aren't pushing for universal coverage just for citizens, they're pushing for universal coverage for EVERY resident, legal or not. Considering CA's "sanctuary" policy plus the fact that somewhere between 5-10% represent illegal aliens, that's a huge number of unfunded people to cover.
But if there was a political miracle, and medicare-for-all became law in CA, it would be easy to keep illegal aliens out of the doctor’s office using the same method that keeps people younger than 65 out of Medicare run by DC, not by CA. It is called your Medicare number on your Medicare ID card. Works perfectly. It kept me out until I turned 65. It will keep illegal aliens out. California simply refuses to issue a CA-Medicare card to illegal aliens, just the same as Washington DC refused to issue me a DC-Medicare card until I was old.
If they would restrict their plan to citizens, that would be a plan I could get behind.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article217408905
.html
“A lot of employers provide health care, and like their employees, they’re satisfied with how health care is delivered,” Zaremberg said. “From a business perspective, I think they’d rather have the administration (of health care) done through the private sector rather than the government.” And this is why there will be no CA version of Medicare for all -- most don't want it because they already have something just as good. And, of utmost importance, they don't want to pay anything for somebody who has nothing.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Signym, you are lying, again. Business and health care organizations in California have joined forces to oppose any effort to craft a universal, single-payer health care system for the nation’s largest state.
You are such a fucking ass, SECOND, constantly arguing with the voices in your head and pretending to know things about which you have not a fucking clue.
Quote:
California governor candidate Gavin Newsom is vocal supporter of single-payer health care, sometimes:
... Last year, he endorsed the amended Healthy California Act, SB 562, which called for covering every Californian, including undocumented immigrants, under one public program.
The measure is also supported by Assembly Speaker Anthony Rendon (D).
It's not that I expect this bill to go through, it's that some of our Democratic politicians are idiot enough to endorse it.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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https://www.healthycaliforniaact.org/supporters/
SB 562 Supporters - Find out which organizations, businesses, and community groups support guaranteed healthcare for all Californians.
Government
California Democratic Party
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Quote:Signym, CA's version of Medicare for all will not be passed AND the blame does not rest upon illegal immigrants being allowed to use it by shortsighted politicians. The fault is the cost. The fault is also that a majority of voters already have health insurance. The fault is that the majority will refuse to pay for anybody else's insurance. They don't want to pay for poor people who are citizens. They don't want to pay for anybody but themselves. This is what most politicians know:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Signym, you are lying, again. Business and health care organizations in California have joined forces to oppose any effort to craft a universal, single-payer health care system for the nation’s largest state.
You are such a fucking ass, SECOND, constantly arguing with the voices in your head and pretending to know things about which you have not a fucking clue.Quote:
California governor candidate Gavin Newsom is vocal supporter of single-payer health care, sometimes:
... Last year, he endorsed the amended Healthy California Act, SB 562, which called for covering every Californian, including undocumented immigrants, under one public program.
The measure is also supported by Assembly Speaker Anthony Rendon (D).
It's not that I expect this bill to go through, it's that some of our Democratic politicians are idiot enough to endorse it.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
Newsom has voiced support for single-payer, but has also said he has concerns about whether California could overcome the steep challenges it would take to create such a system. It would cost an estimated $400 billion per year and, although it would eliminate insurance costs for health care consumers, it would also require large tax increases. It would also likely require voters to approve amendments to the state Constitution, and the state would have to secure several federal waivers from the Trump administration.
www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article217408905
.html
Excluding illegal aliens won't help Medicare for all pass. It will fail because of the cost and because most voters already have health insurance. Need I add that the people who don't have insurance AND are either poor or illegal or children will probably not be voting?
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Cost: which is driven up by people with large needs who are not contributing to the system.
Signym, CA's version of Medicare for all will not be passed AND the blame does not rest upon illegal immigrants being allowed to use it by shortsighted politicians. The fault is the cost.
As I mentioned earlier, between myself and my hubby, our employers were contributing about $5200 per month for three people. That's over 4X what would be required for expen$ive individual policies for three people. If this were expressed as a "tax" it would sound huge, but because it's an employer "contribution" to an insurance company it doesn't get the attention it deserves. If you were to add up ALL of the money that California sinks into healthcare: all of the contributions from large employers, all of the Medicare/ Medicaid money that comes from the Federal government, the county taxes which fund (in part) county healthcare programs, the individual premiums and deductibles that people pay into the system ... would it be enough to fund single-payer insurance? It might be. But if you add in a few million illegal aliens who are (mostly) working under the table (paid in cash at low-wage or day jobs) who aren't contributing to either Social Security or Medicare, they're taking a lot out of a system to which they're not contributing.
And then, combined with California's "sanctuary" policy, and its commitment to building low-cost housing for the unhoused, you have created a powerful magnet for illegal aliens which works like this:
FREE HEALTHCARE!
FREE EDUCATION!
LOW-COST HOUSING!
NO QUESTIONS ASKED!
*****
I ran across a talk radio program that I never listened to before (KABC 790) and the topic that I landed on happened to be about illegal immigration. There was a kindergarten teacher on who, in a sweet and worried tone of voice, said that the many illegal alien children in her class - who don't speak English- have so many educational deficits and unmet health and psychological needs that they take up most of her time and take away form the other children in the class. She said that when she went into teaching 5 years earlier, she wanted to help and believed oppositely, but that experience has taught her otherwise.
We can't POSSIBLY provide jobs housing, infrastructure (roads, water, power etc); language, educational, integration, policing, and health services to an unlimited number of illegal aliens, most of whom are economic migrants, not refugees or political asylees without degrading our ability to provide such services to our own citizens. If we intend to do more than "let" them in our country and "allow" them to settle like pigeons anywhere they can find a small roost, but if we intend to integrate them into our nation, they come with a high set of needs.
We CAN provide those services to a LIMITED number of immigrants. We can do right by them: We can give them healthcare and education and language services and civics lessons, and help them find housing and do all of the things that we should be doing if we really want to HELP them. But all of that is a good reason to institute LIMITS ON IMMIGRATION.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:Signym, you blamed the immigrants. But it is the prices that are too high, not that there are too many immigrants. The U.S. health care is by far the most expensive on the planet. At more than $10,000 a year per person, and nearly 18 percent of all goods and services, health care in America consumes roughly twice as much as it does in other well-off countries.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Cost: which is driven up by people with large needs who are not contributing to the system.
Signym, CA's version of Medicare for all will not be passed AND the blame does not rest upon illegal immigrants being allowed to use it by shortsighted politicians. The fault is the cost.
As I mentioned earlier, between myself and my hubby, our employers were contributing about $5200 per month for three people. That's over 4X what would be required for expen$ive individual policies for three people. If this were expressed as a "tax" it would sound huge, but because it's an employer "contribution" to an insurance company it doesn't get the attention it deserves. If you were to add up ALL of the money that California sinks into healthcare: all of the contributions from large employers, all of the Medicare/ Medicaid money that comes from the Federal government, the county taxes which fund (in part) county healthcare programs, the individual premiums and deductibles that people pay into the system ... would it be enough to fund single-payer insurance? It might be. But if you add in a few million illegal aliens who are (mostly) working under the table (paid in cash at low-wage or day jobs) who aren't contributing to either Social Security or Medicare, they're taking a lot out of a system to which they're not contributing.
And then, combined with California's "sanctuary" policy, and its commitment to building low-cost housing for the unhoused, you have created a powerful magnet for illegal aliens which works like this:
FREE HEALTHCARE!
FREE EDUCATION!
LOW-COST HOUSING!
NO QUESTIONS ASKED!
*****
I ran across a talk radio program that I never listened to before (KABC 790) and the topic that I landed on happened to be about illegal immigration. There was a kindergarten teacher on who, in a sweet and worried tone of voice, said that the many illegal alien children in her class - who don't speak English- have so many educational deficits and unmet health and psychological needs that they take up most of her time and take away form the other children in the class. She said that when she went into teaching 5 years earlier, she wanted to help and believed oppositely, but that experience has taught her otherwise.
We can't POSSIBLY provide jobs housing, infrastructure (roads, water, power etc); language, educational, integration, policing, and health services to an unlimited number of illegal aliens, most of whom are economic migrants, not refugees or political asylees without degrading our ability to provide such services to our own citizens. If we intend to do more than "let" them in our country and "allow" them to settle like pigeons anywhere they can find a small roost, and integrate them into our nation, they come with a high set of needs.
We CAN provide those services to a LIMITED number of immigrants. We can do right by them: We can give them healthcare and education and language services and civics lessons, and help them find housing and do all of the things that we should be doing if we really want to HELP them. But all of that is a good reason to institute LIMITS ON IMMIGRATION.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
Fifteen years ago, the late Princeton economist Uwe Reinhardt authored a paper called "It's the Prices, S
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