Real World Event Discussions
New Holiday For Canada
POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Saturday, April 19, 2025 23:31
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Thursday, August 16, 2018 9:44 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
This happens to white people too.
The public school system is a terrible thing. It strips away almost any individuality from everybody who goes through it and creates well trained sheep that will one day go on to work for somebody else at a meager salary, all the while teaching whatever agenda of the age is to the children.
If you read 1984, you'll find that Orwell explained this in great detail. How through the school system the kids were essentially turned into spies that would turn their own parents in for behaviors or thoughts that weren't in line with the Hive.
I think it's terrible when cultures are destroyed in this manner. It's already happened to my "people". There is no cultural pride at all in my family, especially in my generation. That pretty much died off when my grandparents did.. My only personal link to it is my only surviving grandmother until her mind completely goes. I doubt my niece will even think of it at all.
It's funny this topic came up in here today. I was just telling my grandma about a great book I read in college called "1,000 Years of Solitude", and how sad it was when their culture was ultimately "killed off" by these means.
If you look back at the threads here about Puerto Rico, this is why I said that they should not try to become an official state to ensure they get relief money for the floods. Their culture will die in a generation or three, there will be a WalMart at every corner, and the island will be turned into a vacation spot for rich people while the once proud Puerto Rican's work as wage slaves for the elite.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Jack, no it is not the same thing. You speak English and other European languages are maintained by families here and in the US.
We've had to RELEARN our languages and cultures.
Even going to school, WHITES haven't lost anything.
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Friday, August 17, 2018 7:31 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Jack, no it is not the same thing. You speak English and other European languages are maintained by families here and in the US.
We've had to RELEARN our languages and cultures.
Even going to school, WHITES haven't lost anything.
Sure they have.
I'd say that in some ways white people have lost even more than the natives have. You at least have a proud heritage that you've managed for several hundred years to hold onto.
The fact that you think of me as only "white" is an illustration of that. The fact that I think of me as only "white" is an even greater illustration of that.
I have no culture. I have no roots. I have no heritage. I'm a european mutt. My niece is so further even more "mixed" that she represents just about every European country.
I'm just another brick in the wall. Another cog in the machine.
I've been programmed since my first day of school to be exactly the same as everybody else.
Nobody has a monopoly on that.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Friday, August 17, 2018 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Jack, no it is not the same thing. You speak English and other European languages are maintained by families here and in the US.
We've had to RELEARN our languages and cultures.
Even going to school, WHITES haven't lost anything.
Sure they have.
I'd say that in some ways white people have lost even more than the natives have. You at least have a proud heritage that you've managed for several hundred years to hold onto.
The fact that you think of me as only "white" is an illustration of that. The fact that I think of me as only "white" is an even greater illustration of that.
I have no culture. I have no roots. I have no heritage. I'm a european mutt. My niece is so further even more "mixed" that she represents just about every European country.
I'm just another brick in the wall. Another cog in the machine.
I've been programmed since my first day of school to be exactly the same as everybody else.
Nobody has a monopoly on that.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Okay on some of this we are going to have to agree to disagree.
As for the "white" thing that was my way of illustrating a obviously mixed up point. I generally think of you as an American and white second.
An America is not a race but a country.
Native Americans and Canadians fought to not have our cultures and ways of life destroyed. It didn't work though and we still struggle with the legacy from the residential schools, reservations and such.
I have known many "European Mutts" as you refer to yourself and some who have been here many years and are what I consider "Pure blood".
What I truly meant was that when you went to school English was your language and it wasn't forced on you. You always had your identity even if you consider yourself a "mutt".
Our languages, our rituals and the way we lived made us who we were. And in the last 50years we have been trying to reclaim that.
The "We" I use is a general one as I have known a few "Pure blood" Native Canadians over the years.
For my family all we have is the knowing. I would have to go to US and do a lot of digging to find names and dates that have become lost to time. I don't know my Shoshoni great grandmother's name. My white great grandfather's name I do. I know that I and my brother and cousins and my father and his siblings are descendants of a chief of that Nation. I know that Sacajewa is a distant aunt of mine.
There are differences Jack. And maybe the one difference is that I was raised knowing the major differences between Europeans and other immigrants to Canada and the US.
That is what makes what Ottawa is proposing so important.
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Saturday, August 18, 2018 3:40 AM
How about "Ice Road Truckers Day", I love that show.
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Saturday, August 18, 2018 4:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
How about "Ice Road Truckers Day", I love that show.
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Saturday, August 18, 2018 5:47 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Okay on some of this we are going to have to agree to disagree.
Sure thing. Although I don't think that we're entirely disagreeing here. I certainly hope that I'm not coming off as argumentative about this with you, since I do like you and I do respect your opinion. I hear a lot how white people, particularly white men are to blame for all of societies woes today, so forgive me if it's a bit of a sore spot with me since I've never gone out of my way to hurt anybody or make their life difficult. :)
Quote:
As for the "white" thing that was my way of illustrating a obviously mixed up point. I generally think of you as an American and white second.
An America is not a race but a country.
Okay, sure... but I'd just like a little clarification on some things. Since "America" is hardly a prodominantly white society today comared to how it was when it was first settled by Europeans, are all Americans of any ethnicity to blame for this today, or are we only talking about "White Americans"? I do have to ask this since you want to make a distinction thinking of me as an American first, yet (I believe) that you seem to blame those with European heritage for the issue. If that is the case then forgive me for not understanding what point you're trying to make here.
Quote:
Native Americans and Canadians fought to not have our cultures and ways of life destroyed. It didn't work though and we still struggle with the legacy from the residential schools, reservations and such.
Good for your people for fighting it. I praised that before. It's also what I was talking about when I said that Puerto Rico should NOT try to become the 51st state because they will see their own culture destroyed in a generation or two if they sell themselves out for relief money today.
My "people" didn't fight it at all. The very many different European ethnicity have melded together probably quicker than any group of people that ever existed on the planet. As I said before, that leaves us with no real heritage, or stories, or folklore, or anything really interesting at all. We're kind of just "here and now", and easily forgotten once we're gone.
This fact makes it very easy to just call somebody like me a "white person", especially when somebody else who isn't white is saying it with a negative connotation. I can't really argue it, but I hate how that "fact" somehow makes me culpable for the "sins" of those other "whites" that came before me, especially when I'm sure I share no blood with a great many of the worst of them.
Even if there were a blood relation, I take offense to anybody who attacks me or even just looks at me in a negative light without actually knowing who I am as a person, simply because of the color of my skin.
Quote:
I have known many "European Mutts" as you refer to yourself and some who have been here many years and are what I consider "Pure blood".
What I truly meant was that when you went to school English was your language and it wasn't forced on you. You always had your identity even if you consider yourself a "mutt".
But that's the thing. There really was no identity in the first place. I wasn't a part of anything. I just was. I guess maybe coming from a set of parents that decided to have a monstrous divorce when I was 5 years old that tortured the childhoods of my brothers and I for decades and haunts us to this day makes that even more of the truth for me. Not only didn't I have any heritage or roots or anything solid to stand on in the past of my family, but I didn't really even have much of a family to speak of. The only good thing that came out of all of that is that I believe my brothers and I have a stronger bond in adulthood than most siblings will ever have.
Quote:
Our languages, our rNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Sunday, August 19, 2018 3:41 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Okay on some of this we are going to have to agree to disagree.Quote:
Sure thing. Although I don't think that we're entirely disagreeing here. I certainly hope that I'm not coming off as argumentative about this with you, since I do like you and I do respect your opinion. I hear a lot how white people, particularly white men are to blame for all of societies woes today, so forgive me if it's a bit of a sore spot with me since I've never gone out of my way to hurt anybody or make their life difficult. :)
No, you're not and I apologize if I sounded angry. Dealing with JSF can really get me angry. Mostly because he doesn't seem to try and understand what I am saying. I like you too Jack and I appreciate your willingness to listen and understand. You have a right to be upset when all this gets dumped on you. I hope that I can make myself clearer to you.Quote:
As for the "white" thing that was my way of illustrating a obviously mixed up point. I generally think of you as an American and white second.
An America is not a race but a country.Quote:
Okay, sure... but I'd just like a little clarification on some things. Since "America" is hardly a prodominantly white society today comared to how it was when it was first settled by Europeans, are all Americans of any ethnicity to blame for this today, or are we only talking about "White Americans"? I do have to ask this since you want to make a distinction thinking of me as an American first, yet (I believe) that you seem to blame those with European heritage for the issue. If that is the case then forgive me for not understanding what point you're trying to make here.
I am talking about "White Americans" as later groups who came into the US had no role. I hope that is clear.Quote:
Native Americans and Canadians fought to not have our cultures and ways of life destroyed. It didn't work though and we still struggle with the legacy from the residential schools, reservations and such.Quote:
Good for your people for fighting it. I praised that before. It's also what I was talking about when I said that Puerto Rico should NOT try to become the 51st state because they will see their own culture destroyed in a generation or two if they sell themselves out for relief money today.
I thank you and the praise is well deserved in the face of the odds.Even the Metis fought not to loose what they created for themselves as not being white or Indian. You have a point about Puerto Rico the Island. But there are large pockets of the people on the mainland and they do maintain their culture, language and traditions. That needs to keep going as well.Quote:
My "people" didn't fight it at all. The very many different European ethnicity have melded together probably quicker than any group of people that ever existed on the planet. As I said before, that leaves us with no real heritage, or stories, or folklore, or anything really interesting at all. We're kind of just "here and now", and easily forgotten once we're gone.
Well, Jack. My opinion is with some digging you could find out something about your heritage and maybe gather enough material together to pass to your brother who could pass it on to your niece.Quote:
This fact makes it very easy to just call somebody like me a "white person", especially when somebody else who isn't white is saying it with a negative connotation. I can't really argue it, but I hate how that "fact" somehow makes me culpable for the "sins" of those other "whites" that came before me, especially when I'm sure I share no blood with a great many of the worst of them.
I understand. A good number of years ago I was having a discussion with a friend who is Portuguese. He was born here in Canada buNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Monday, August 20, 2018 6:20 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
No, you're not and I apologize if I sounded angry. Dealing with JSF can really get me angry. Mostly because he doesn't seem to try and understand what I am saying. I like you too Jack and I appreciate your willingness to listen and understand. You have a right to be upset when all this gets dumped on you. I hope that I can make myself clearer to you.
You didn't sound angry. It's just hard to tell emotions sometimes on the internet and wanted to make sure we weren't being argumentative with each other. I appreciate that you understand where I'm coming from and that you know that I'm also doing the same with you.
Quote:
I am talking about "White Americans" as later groups who came into the US had no role. I hope that is clear.
Thanks for clarifying that. I think this is more a systemic thing than a racial thing though. The fact that a lot of people back then and a lot of people here now were/are white was just incidental. People going with the flow and taking the path of least resistance and all. I think that most people today, regardless of race, are genuinely good... or at least neutral. I would never say that all rich people are "evil", but generally speaking if you're looking for the truly bad people in the world, that's where I'd start searching.
Quote:
I thank you and the praise is well deserved in the face of the odds.Even the Metis fought not to loose what they created for themselves as not being white or Indian. You have a point about Puerto Rico the Island. But there are large pockets of the people on the mainland and they do maintain their culture, language and traditions. That needs to keep going as well.
Yeah. I do hope enough Puerto Ricans realize this before those in power over there make a choice that will end their way of life as they know it. They still have an opportunity to keep their way of life intact, and those who are wise enough have plenty of history to see what could happen if they don't make the right decisions going forward.
Quote:
Well, Jack. My opinion is with some digging you could find out something about your heritage and maybe gather enough material together to pass to your brother who could pass it on to your niece.
True, but what of it could I actually believe at this point? Half of the stuff they taught us in history class in American schools has now been exposed as bullshit, or the agenda completely flipped and they're telling us that it's bullshit. I don't know what to make of history at all since I don't know anybody who could tell me if any of it is true or not.
It could be an interesting exercise, but I can't imagine that learning anything at this point would have any emotional or nostalgic value to me now.
Quote:
I understand. A good number of years ago I was having a discussion with a friend who is Portuguese. He was born here in Canada but his parents and other family immigrated from there. We were talking history and said the Portuguese were as bad as the Spanish. He told me not to lump him in with that. I explained to him, "Think of the history of Portugal. They sailed with the Spanish. So your people were involved."
Yeah. You can't be expected to know everything about other cultures until you learn, but one similar example I've learned is that you should never confuse a Puerto Rican with a Mexican or vice/versa. I won't go into too many details for fear of displaying my cultural ignorance, but let's just say that they do not appreciate that.
Quote:
I feel the same way when people go off still to this day about "No good Indians". That gets me going on them and I love shocking them when I say that I am part Indian and they don't know what to look for in my face.
I've never had that problem. No mistaking me for anything other than just another "white dude" lol.
Quote:
There is another differeNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Tuesday, August 21, 2018 6:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
No, you're not and I apologize if I sounded angry. Dealing with JSF can really get me angry. Mostly because he doesn't seem to try and understand what I am saying. I like you too Jack and I appreciate your willingness to listen and understand. You have a right to be upset when all this gets dumped on you. I hope that I can make myself clearer to you.Quote:You didn't sound angry. It's just hard to tell emotions sometimes on the internet and wanted to make sure we weren't being argumentative with each other. I appreciate that you understand where I'm coming from and that you know that I'm also doing the same with you.
It can be. I do appreciate it. Discussing is better than arguing.
Quote:
I am talking about "White Americans" as later groups who came into the US had no role. I hope that is clear.
Quote:
Thanks for clarifying that. I think this is more a systemic thing than a racial thing though. The fact that a lot of people back then and a lot of people here now were/are white was just incidental. People going with the flow and taking the path of least resistance and all. I think that most people today, regardless of race, are genuinely good... or at least neutral. I would never say that all rich people are "evil", but generally speaking if you're looking for the truly bad people in the world, that's where I'd start searching.
I think you are probably right. The system was against us for a lot of reasons. I try to view the good in all people and treat everyone with respect.
Quote:
I thank you and the praise is well deserved in the face of the odds.Even the Metis fought not to loose what they created for themselves as not being white or Indian. You have a point about Puerto Rico the Island. But there are large pockets of the people on the mainland and they do maintain their culture, language and traditions. That needs to keep going as well.
Quote:
Yeah. I do hope enough Puerto Ricans realize this before those in power over there make a choice that will end their way of life as they know it. They still have an opportunity to keep their way of life intact, and those who are wise enough have plenty of history to see what could happen if they don't make the right decisions going forward.
I hope so too and they do have that opportunity and it shouldn't be wasted. As you said the history is there for them to see.
Quote:
Well, Jack. My opinion is with some digging you could find out something about your heritage and maybe gather enough material together to pass to your brother who could pass it on to your niece.
Quote:
True, but what of it could I actually believe at this point? Half of the stuff they taught us in history class in American schools has now been exposed as bullshit, or the agenda completely flipped and they're telling us that it's bullshit. I don't know what to make of history at all since I don't know anybody who could tell me if any of it is true or not.
Then don't look at American history. Go look at European history. Get it straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. It is just an idea. I don't like the thought of anyone loosing their history.
Quote:
It could be an interesting exercise, but I can't imagine that learning anything at this point would have any emotional or nostalgic value to me now.
Your choice of course. But you never know what gem of knowledge you might glean.
Quote:
I understand. A good number of years ago I was having a discussion with a friend who is Portuguese. He was born here in Canada but his parents and other family immigrated from there. We were talking history and said the Portuguese were as bad as the Spanish. He told me not to lump him in with that. I explained to him, "Think of the history of Portugal. They sailed with the Spanish. So youNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Tuesday, August 21, 2018 11:58 AM
Quote:Something I just realized.
Originally posted by Brenda:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Jack, no it is not the same thing. You speak English and other European languages are maintained by families here and in the US.
We've had to RELEARN our languages and cultures.
Even going to school, WHITES haven't lost anything.
Sure they have.
I'd say that in some ways white people have lost even more than the natives have. You at least have a proud heritage that you've managed for several hundred years to hold onto.
The fact that you think of me as only "white" is an illustration of that. The fact that I think of me as only "white" is an even greater illustration of that.
I have no culture. I have no roots. I have no heritage. I'm a european mutt. My niece is so further even more "mixed" that she represents just about every European country.
I'm just another brick in the wall. Another cog in the machine.
I've been programmed since my first day of school to be exactly the same as everybody else.
Nobody has a monopoly on that.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Okay on some of this we are going to have to agree to disagree.
As for the "white" thing that was my way of illustrating a obviously mixed up point. I generally think of you as an American and white second.
An America is not a race but a country.
Native Americans and Canadians fought to not have our cultures and ways of life destroyed. It didn't work though and we still struggle with the legacy from the residential schools, reservations and such.
I have known many "European Mutts" as you refer to yourself and some who have been here many years and are what I consider "Pure blood".
What I truly meant was that when you went to school English was your language and it wasn't forced on you. You always had your identity even if you consider yourself a "mutt".
Our languages, our rituals and the way we lived made us who we were. And in the last 50years we have been trying to reclaim that.
The "We" I use is a general one as I have known a few "Pure blood" Native Canadians over the years.
For my family all we have is the knowing. I would have to go to US and do a lot of digging to find names and dates that have become lost to time. I don't know my Shoshoni great grandmother's name. My white great grandfather's name I do. I know that I and my brother and cousins and my father and his siblings are descendants of a chief of that Nation. I know that Sacajewa is a distant aunt of mine.
There are differences Jack. And maybe the one difference is that I was raised knowing the major differences between Europeans and other immigrants to Canada and the US.
That is what makes what Ottawa is proposing so important.
Native Americans, or First Peoples, can have the knowledge that their people, their ancestors, their roots, have roamed or resided across this land since before history.
What I just realized is that non-Natives cannot really say this in the same way.
Sure, I know that some of my Ancestors Founded Jamestown in 1604, but they ventured from towns and counties in Yurp. I had not thought of this non-historical roots as a lack, but more of a facet of the pioneering spirit that most Pilgrims, Colonists, Explorers must have shared, and these aspects of society which have driven to today's descendants, and formed the Nation and the Global presence. I've always known which countries in Yurp my ancestors originated from, except for the part from Canada - since I started and fleshed out my Family Tree, which I think was just under 80 pages, single spaced, by the time I Graduated HS.
I feel that this gives the Natives an advantage over me/us - which I've never considered before.
Brenda, I would suggest you look at Family Trees and ancestry online. There is an amazing amount
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