Real World Event Discussions

Civility

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, September 5, 2025 17:55
VIEWED: 16240
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Friday, June 29, 2018 10:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive.

From the person who posts graphic images of mutilated children you would be the authority of what incivility is - good one.

Good one G. I'd add that what you I and others do here is post reality and logic. We deal in facts. That reality, logic and facts are then rebuffed. Rebuffed by people who may actually be Flat Earthers, or at least suffer from the same affliction called an aversion to facts. A disdain for the truth. Same as Trump.

T

REAVERFAN

Friday, June 29, 2018 11:19 PM

Yeah, the left isn't civil.

THE RIGHT WING
The United States Is Witnessing a Shocking Rise in Alt-Right Violence
A new report reveals the crisis is much bigger than Charlottesville.
https://www.alternet.org/right-wing/united-states-witnessing-shocking-
rise-alt-right-violence

Is it really all that shocking, though? Hitler had his brownshirts. Trump has the alt-right.

SIGNYM

Friday, June 29, 2018 11:56 PM

Quote:
THIS from the person who castigated KIKI for going back to 1869 for a legal opinion on immigrants' rights? Dood, you invalidated anything else you might have to say on the topic if you reference anything that far back!- SIGNY

Completely different argument. - RF

Really? How so?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 30, 2018 12:01 AM

Quote:
On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive. - SIGNY

From the person who posts graphic images of mutilated children you would be the authority of what incivility is - good one.- G

Good one G. I'd add that what you I and others do here is post reality ...

Except the parts you don't want to acknowledge, like the half-million or more children that we've killed in the last 30 years or so?

Posting pictures of terrible events isn't "uncivil", as far as I can tell. I wasn't being nasty to you, was I? I was bringing FACTS to the table; FACTS that we could both look at and discuss, presumably in a civil manner.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 30, 2018 1:10 AM

Quote:

Yeah, the left isn't civil.

THE RIGHT WING
The United States Is Witnessing a Shocking Rise in Alt-Right Violence
A new report reveals the crisis is much bigger than Charlottesville.
https://www.alternet.org/right-wing/united-states-witnessing-shocking-
rise-alt-right-violence

Is it really all that shocking, though? Hitler had his brownshirts. Trump has the alt-right. - RF

And the so-called left has its ANTIFA, who themselves have been videoed inciting and committing violence.

Do you think that because someone has committed violence, that gives you the right to commit violence against some unrelated third party? If you're going to "do something" about alt right violence, how does driving someone from a restaurant ... or being nasty to someone online ... or calling half of your fellow citizens "deplorables" .... really help your cause? What is your target supposed to do in response to your incivility? Never go out to eat? Stop posting their opinion? How does that further your cause? Are you trying to raise people up to your level, or sink to theirs?

Hey, I'm all for self-defense. Nobody is saying "Turn the other cheek". If you see someone beating up on someone else, nail the bastard. Self-defense and the immediate defense of others is a legitimate use of violence. But if you go after some random third party because of something that happened some place else, then all you're doing is acting like a mob.

As long as the context is DISCUSSION, then incivility/ rudeness/ threat of violence really is counterproductive.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, June 30, 2018 1:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Now, I personally believe that we Americans face far larger problems than the ones that we're distracted by, and that being divided amongst ourselves is a fools' game. - SIGNY

Signym, sorry to piss all over your worthless argument, but there is The Case Against Civility, In Five Charts.
www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/27/the-case-against-civili
ty-in-five-charts/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.eab5226fe254
Your link doesn't work because I need a subscription to access the material, so if you really want a response to this material, you'll have to copy it here.

Quote:
Chart #2 is particularly interesting because it points to an extremely unfair disadvantage for Democrats compared to Republicans. And it is built into the Constitution.
There was a point being made on NPR about this, and what I heard was how the Senate gave too much representation to rural states, and "gerrymandering".

Well, as far as the first point is concerned, our government was formed the way it was formed to get the "buy-in" of the original colonies. If you want to change THAT, you will need a Constitutional Amendment. Being personally uncivil to me, SIX, KIKI, or individual Trump supporters or staff members is not going to get you very far. NOT IF YOU INTEND TO PROCEED DEMOCRATICALLY, ANYWAY.

As far as fixing "gerrymandering" ... Democrats, when they were in power, gerrymandered district lines right up there with Republicans. If you want to gerrymander the lines back in Democrat's favor, then you will have to make sure that you have control of State Legislatures in 2020, after the Census is done. That might mean... yanno... appealing to a wider set of voters, and representing EVERYBODY's interests .... farmers as well as city-dwellers, whites as well as blacks, men in addition to women, citizens but not illegal immigrants, and religious people along with agnostics. That means finding the CORE INTERESTS of what draws America together, interests that we all have IN COMMON, and NOT playing off one group against another with increasingly fragmented identity politics, or focusing on baloney like RUSSIA!!. Maybe you can start by not characterizing a large number of Americans as "deplorables"? THAT sort of incivility really doesn't work in your favor.

Quote:
There will need to be some extreme rudeness to take the unfairness back out.
I think I just pointed out how extreme rudeness doesn't work in your favor. Not if you intend to proceed democratically, anyway.

Quote:
But you could go all the way to the Civil War for another example where the pro-slavery South believed that the North was being hideously rude about the institution of slavery.
THIS from the person who castigated KIKI for going back to 1869 for a legal opinion on immigrants' rights? Dood, you invalidated anything else you might have to say on the topic if you reference anything that far back!

Quote:
On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive. What does the aggressor hope to accomplish, other than getting a "lift" by expressing their own anger? Does it change anyone's POV ... except to the negative? Does it do anything to future encounters other than fuel future violence? - SIGNY
Sometimes, Signym, a slave-owner crossed a line he does not recognize or refused to even acknowledge could exist and the slave killed the owner. I know it didn't end slavery for tens of millions in the Antebellum South, but many, many slave-owners were deserving of death long before the Civil War began. Some slave-owners got what they deserved during the war. Many others did not because they survived. Just a personal opinion. Opinions differed widely before 1860 about limits on what a slave-owner rightly could do to his property. Nowadays opinions differ on what a Republican rightly can do to an alien.- SECOND
Well, like I said: IF ref

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REAVERFAN

Saturday, June 30, 2018 1:38 AM

Quote:

And the so-called left has its ANTIFA, who themselves have been videoed inciting and committing violence.

No one has ever been killed by Antifa. Ever. Reichwing terrorists murder more people than any other terrorist group in the US, including Muslims.

And every single one of them ADORES Trump. They are his brownshirts.

You lost yet another point again.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, June 30, 2018 1:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
And on the topic of diets, nobody is going to change theirs unless they want to. If you had told me a year ago I'd be gluten free I would have laughed at you.

I've broken that diet 3 times since it has started. I've decided that if I'm out with people or somebody is cooking for me I'm not going to put any restrictions on them, since this is a lifestyle choice and it's not because I'm allergic to it (well... I've never been diagnosed with anything, but if I am it's not a life or death thing).

I can't speak for everyone, but making the change in my diet was not really that hard. It was certainly easier than giving up booze or pot, and infinitely easier than giving up coffee or cigarettes.

The pains are still there, but my job is very labor intensive and I'm not kid anymore. I've also done a lot of damage to my body over the years.
Have you gotten that canola oil?? It's very VERY necessary in order for you body to make anti-inflammatory hormones.

Quote:
I do hope that by continuing down the path I'm on that I can get rid of the pains without resorting to any drugs, even over the counter ones. The one thing positive I can say about being gluten free though is that I haven't had this much energy since I was in my early 20's. If my feet didn't hurt so much after 8 hours of work I could easily do another 4 hours of work before I went home.
It it your heels or your whole foot? Because if just your heels, you have plantar fasciitis, and SIX, I had it... tried everything (anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen, stretching, foot soaks, RX'ed heel cups, staying off my feet) and I found a pair of $10 inserts that really worked.

Quote:
I'm actually hoping I can get to that point because I'm sure there wouldn't be any argument from management if I were to put in 12 hour days and then I could get in a 36 hour work week and still have four days off. :)

One day at a time baby. I cannot stress enough how great a gluten free diet is. If you can will yourself to start it and stick with it for a month or two, you will be amazed at how much more energy you will have.
Gluten-free here too, SIX. I was dxed with a number of food allergies (altho allergic to a crap-ton of OTHER foods not allergic to wheat, per test) and also specifically tested for gluten sensitivity (not gluten sensitive either, per test) but when I took wheat out of my diet the arthritic aches and pains almost went completely away. I sleep a zillion times better now that my shoulders and hips don't hurt. I can't explain it, but it works for me.

Quote:
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Good words to live by.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

A decade ago I started using canola oil in my cookies, and everybody has been surprised that they taste just as good as with other - no real detectable difference for us shlubs.

SIGNYM

Saturday, June 30, 2018 2:06 AM

Quote:
No one has ever been killed by Antifa. Ever. Reichwing terrorists murder more people than any other terrorist group in the US, including Muslims.

One of the things Id like to know is whether their figures include some of the nutcases who sound like they're off their rocker; 'cause those I'd put in the "nutcase" category.

Also, don't forget that the biggest category of violent crimes are nonwhite on nonwhite. There have also been some pretty spectacular jihadist-inspired mass killings in the USA. SPLC tends to focus on only one kind of victim and one kind of crime.

Quote:
And every single one of them ADORES Trump. They are his brownshirts.

First of all, I'm not sure that this is true. Secondly, even if all violent white supremacists 'adore' Trump, that doesn't mean that all Trump supporters are violent white supremacists.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

REAVERFAN

Saturday, June 30, 2018 2:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
No one has ever been killed by Antifa. Ever. Reichwing terrorists murder more people than any other terrorist group in the US, including Muslims.
One of the things Id like to know is whether their figures include some of the nutcases who sound like they're off their rocker; 'cause those I'd put in the "nutcase" category.

Also, don't forget that the biggest category of violent crimes are nonwhite on nonwhite. There have also been some pretty spectacular jihadist-inspired mass killings in the USA. SPLC tends to focus on only one kind of victim and one kind of crime.

Wrong again. There's crime, then there's terrorism, and nobody does more of that in the US than your Nazi heroes. Fact.

Quote:
And every single one of them ADORES Trump. They are his brownshirts. First of all, I'm not sure that this is true. Secondly, even if all violent white supremacists 'adore' Trump, that doesn't mean that all Trump supporters are violent white supremacists.
It's absolutely true. They ALL worship him. Every. Single. One. Fact.

Do Nazi salutes bother you, I wonder?