And you thought OUR election was fun!!
POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Sunday, December 5, 2004 01:07
VIEWED: 8772
PAGE 5 of 7
Apparently eastern Ukraine is filled with ethnic Russians. To my (Western) eye, they all sound the same and look the same but obviously people expect very different kinds of representation from each candidate.
Geezer, to carry your logic forward: If the Iraq elections are as irregular as the Ukraine elections (or worse), would you start talking about a breaking up Iraq into three pieces? Just curious.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer, just in case you do happen to be some sort of spook in real life, let me assure you that what I do is perfectly legal. And part of that is being here on this board and annoying right-wing apologists.
SO, to carry your logic forward: If the Iraq elections are as irregular as the Ukraine elections (or worse), would you start talking about a breaking up Iraq into three pieces? Just curious.
Actually, I was taking a sly dig at the red and blue states here, but partition of Iraq is an interesting topic.
Considering that the country is really just one of those agglomerations of seperate tribes and ethnic groups that the colonial powers (England in this case) used to like to package as a nation, it might be worthwhile to consider. The Czech Republic and Slovokia seem to be doing pretty well apart.
The Kurdish north has been semi-autonomous for years. Dividing the center and south between Shi'a and Sunni might be more difficult. A cynic might say that such a division would just about guarantee a permanent state of low level war, which could keep them from bothering anyone else.
Actually, this could end up being the outcome of the elections and new constitution. A loose federation of three autonomous states instead of a single republic. Now that would be interesting.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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But why is the US government so seemingly insistent about creating a unified Iraq? Even assuming that we're just there for the oil, wouldn't it be beneficial to have the Kurdish north (with it's oil) competing with the Shia south (with it's oil) for contracts?
Reasons for keeping Iraq unified:
All of the Mideast and Central Asian nations are western creations. Turkey, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran etc. are each created from ethnic groups that have been reverse-gerrymandered. The Kurdish areas, for example, were specifically divided up among several nations. If Iraqis successfully divide, autonomy-fever could spread and destablize all of the leaders that we currently depend on.
It's easier for the USA to install and control one leader rather than three. (Although "divide and conquer" has certainly been a successful approach in the past.)
A partitioned Iraq would make contract enforcement difficult.
So Geezer- do you have any insight why the US govt insists on a unified Iraq?
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BTW Geezer, it occurred to me... not many threads ago, you were saying that the problem with the left was that it wasn't nice enough to ppl like you. Now you think it should brave tear gas and take to the streets. How do those two suggestions fit together?
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And... FINALLY... I have to practice some time managment. Geezer, it's been fun, but I actually have a responsible job and a chronically sick/ disabled family to take care of.
Hey-everyone else: Have fun. If you find any news that's missing from the headlines, I hope you post it. I'll be reading but trying very very very hard not to repond! 
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
BTW Geezer, it occurred to me... not many threads ago, you were saying that the problem with the left was that it wasn't nice enough to ppl like you. Now you think it should brave tear gas and take to the streets. How do those two suggestions fit together?
I'll get back to the partition of Iraq later, after some research.
I see no contradiction in being positive towards the middle-of-the-roaders and peacefully demonstrating for what you believe in. Once again, the Ukranians are providing a positive example. Their demonstration is peaceful, almost festive at times, but it gets the point across.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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A while back in this thread, there was a request made for links to real info. Check this out.
(Sorry if I've missed this link posted elsewhere on the boards...)
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm
There is no such thing as a weed.
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Geezer, I was trying so hard not to reply that I missed making this as a prediction and will have to add this after the fact.
First of all, I doubt very much that either side in the Ukraine is tolerant of middle- of- the- roaders. This is a real power struggle going on, not a love-in. Once a nation is that strongly polarized, middle of the roaders stay very quiet because they are looked on as traitors by either side.
The other point that I was going to predict but now will report is that a "peaceful, almost festive" resolution is in doubt.
"Talks Going Badly as Ukraine Seethes with Rallies
Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich, told a rally of his supporters in the east of the country that the rowdy but so far peaceful protests had brought Ukraine to the edge of disaster. 'As prime minister, I say that today we are on the brink of catastrophe. There is one step to the edge," he told a packed hall in Severodonetsk. Do not take any radical steps. I repeat, none ... When the first drop of blood is spilled, we will not be able to stop it.'"
www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=WJISG4G1ABNPOCRBAE0CFEY?t
ype=topNews&storyID=6934773
Both Russia AND "the West" have powerful interest on the outcome of the election. Viktor Yushchenko, the outsider, is a pro-Western, pro-capitalist candidate with ties to the Heritage Foundation who supports opening the Ukraine to foreign (ie Western) investment.
http://66.216.126.164/nrof_bartlett/bartlett200410270757.asp
while Viktor Yanukovich is pro-Russian, pro-Putin. According various interviews with Boris Tarassuk (President of the Ukraine Parliament's Foreign Relations Commission and Yuschcenko's ally) Russia has already sent in special forces:
" 'I confirm the presence of Russian special units in Kiev, I can tell you where they are staying. They arrived in Kiev by plane and put on Ukrainian uniforms. They are armed with submachine guns,' " told bTV private television.
www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,11508523%255E1702,0
0.html I'm not sure opposing outside forces will let the Ukraine have a "velvet revolution".
This will be my last reply for some time. I trust that by now you understand that there is not only the the news behind the news, there is also the news behind the non-news.
"The only thing in the middle of the road is a yellow stripe and dead armadillos"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Once a nation is that strongly polarized, middle of the roaders stay very quiet because they are looked on as traitors by either side...
..."The only thing in the middle of the road is a yellow stripe and dead armadillos"
Traitorous roadkill, eh? Well, it's nice to know where I fit into your world view. Would you get points in Liberal Paradise for killing me, like Sunni of some sects do if they kill a non-believer? Should I wear a little purple "Star of Non-alignment" on my sleeve, to show I'm neither Red nor Blue?
I'm so happy I don't live in your world that I can't even describe it. Have fun fighting the Vast Right-wing International Corporate Tri-lateral Illuminati Media Conspiracy. I've gotta go shopping for some gifts for the Central Union Mission kids Christmas bags.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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