And you thought OUR election was fun!!
POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Sunday, December 5, 2004 01:07
VIEWED: 8772
PAGE 4 of 7
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So you didn't hear about it, did you? I thought not.
I don't remember it right off hand, but press about it is not hard to find.
Quote:
Demonstrators, police clash during free trade talks
MIAMI (AP) — Police in riot gear used batons, plastic shields, concussion grenades and stun guns in clashes Thursday with hundreds of demonstrators protesting talks aimed at creating a hemisphere-wide free-trade zone.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-11-20-miami-protests_x.htm
It is difficult to find a good estimate of the crowd, I've seen everything from "hundreds" as in the USAToday article, to "tens of thousands" on the AFL-CIO site. Hardly hundreds of thousands, and not in the capital.
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I've seen demonstrations of over a million ignored by the press. If facing a little tear gas would make a difference, it might be worth it. But the right wing didn't get into power by demonstrations, did it?
Which demonstration of over a million was ignored? Was it in Washington, D.C.? Also note that the right wing in Ukraine didn't get into power by demonstrations, either. That hasn't stopped the liberals there from hitting the streets.
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I don't get you, Geezer. What are you trying to say with your all of posts? That everything is fine? That the government is alright?
No. I have plenty of problems with the government myself. I just don't buy into the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy thing.
I also question the committment of some of the liberals here who talk a good game, but who can always find an excuse to not take action. You know as well as I do that if a half-million people had showed up in Washington two days after the election to protest, it would have been world-wide news. It didn't happen. All we get is internet whining. In another thread, I tried to get a discussion going on what the liberals could do to win in 2008, and all I got back was whining and hate. Guess you could say I sometimes don't get you, either.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
No. I have plenty of problems with the government myself. I just don't buy into the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy thing.
I also question the committment of some of the liberals here who talk a good game, but who can always find an excuse to not take action. You know as well as I do that if a half-million people had showed up in Washington two days after the election to protest, it would have been world-wide news. It didn't happen. All we get is internet whining. In another thread, I tried to get a discussion going on what the liberals could do to win in 2008, and all I got back was whining and hate. Guess you could say I sometimes don't get you, either.
I don't mean to gang up on you Geezer but may I say...
The whole world protested the Iraq Invasion. It was the largest protest in history, it made protest against Vietnam look like a picnic. Protesters all over the world have been showing up at the secretive WTO meetings, Republican Conventions, and lately in Chile. What happens to these people? Well, they are harrassed and arrested by police (no actual charge half the time just 72 hours of jail time to prevent protest), gassed, sprayed, beaten, stalked by plain cloths, kidnapped, and on and on. Tell me, how many people feel safe to protest in the USA?
No on feels safe protesting in the US. This sort of policestate tactics are becoming common around the world to prevent political movement by the people instead of those secretive and hydra like corporate masters.
It reminds me of what MacNamara said in that terrific documentary "Fog of War". He was asked if he and the rest of the White House were influenced by the protestors against Vietnam just outside. MacNamara hemmed and hawed; "um, er, ... no. No we didn't... No".
Make no mistake, we are dealing with the very same attitudes today. It isn't a grand conspiracy but an old conspiracy we have lived with for generations. SSDD.
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Geezer, you're getting tripped up in your own assumptions. If the media was as fair and proactive about reporting the truth as you say it is the news of election irregularities would be blazoned across the front pages of every newpaper in 24-point type. I wouldn't HAVE to go to Washington to demonstrate to draw attention to that problem. And yet, you're telling me to go demonstrate and to trust the media to report the demonstration... the very same media that isn't reporting the story in the first place! The same media that has the truth locked up in a box at the NYTIMES (and other palces) and refuses - not nelgects, refuses- to release the raw exit poll data. As the saying goes- WTF???
BTW, I've personally known about several very large Washington demonstration (approx one million) - but I had to listen to BBC World News or "As It Happens" (Canadian Radio) to hear out about it in the media. My very first experience with the media burying domestic stories was the 1-million pro ERA march in Washington in 1976 that generated ONE captioned pic... not even a 2" news article... of two women cooling their feet in a fountain. Now, how's THAT for burying news? Pretty impressive, wouldn't you say?
I know that disinformation by selection is the mainstay of most Adminstrations and news media. It's usually even more effective than actual misinformation. For example-
Has the Iraqi Health Ministry come out with any Fallujhan civilian dead estimates yet? What about the American military? I already stated what I think is a reasonable guess (>600). IRC guesses the same (up to 800) and I'm still waiting for that info. Of course, we'll never get it from official sources because they're too d*mn busy burying the truth OH, and BTW in case it went past you, when two groups collude to perform an illegal act (in this case, hiding the number of civilian dead in defiance of the Geneva Convention) that's a "conspiracy".
So how about this- Heard anything lately about Venzuela? Hmmm, I thought not. What about Uzbekistan? Not that either? Huh. OK, what about Brazil? Wow, you haven't heard about that either??? OK, then how about some place really close to our collective hearts- Quick, Geezer, what did Saudi Arabia do this past week that was so important?
So it's not as if there isn't important news happening out there.
Your trust in the system is... baffling. For a self-professed skeptic with such wonderful intllectual tools... intelligence and self-control and web-surfing skills and real-world experience ... it's inexplicable. W/o trying to say this is the case, you LOOK LIKE a paid propagandist because you are so intelligent and so persistent in defending the plainly indefensible. It generates extremely sharp self-contradictions in your own conclusions. I just can't imagine someone of your intellectual prowess being so... I don't know... fractured. Like I said, it's baffling.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
...SNIP... Your trust in the system is... baffling. For a self-professed skeptic with such wonderful intllectual tools... intelligence and self-control and web-surfing skills and real-world experience ... it's inexplicable. W/o trying to say this is the case, you LOOK LIKE a paid propagandist because you are so intelligent and so persistent in defending the plainly indefensible. It generates extremely sharp self-contradictions in your own conclusions. I just can't imagine someone of your intellectual prowess being so... I don't know... fractured. Like I said, it's baffling.
Now you know how I feel.
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heh heh heh.
Yeah. Sucks, don't it?
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Signym.
So what you're saying is that it's no good doing anything, because the government-media conspiracy is too much in control? That you're ultimately powerless, so complaining on a chat board is the most you can hope to accomplish? If this is what you consider reality, I'm not too upset to be considered unrealistic.
I sometimes wonder if the "conspiracy" hasn't taken the place of the old capricious gods in our supposedly more enlightened age. If things don't work out as one would like, instead of blaming a god, blame the Tri-lateral Commission, or the VR-wC. You're helpless against the power of these god-surrogates, so why even try? Just rail against the indifferent gods and do nothing.
So you and Ghoul go pat yourselves on the back over your enlightenment, which absolves you from having to do anything more than complain. I think I'll go out and change something.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Umm... how do you know I'm not doing anything? I'm just taking into account the fact that our government has our media well-controlled.
Not even going to bother answering your other points- irrelevant, misdirecting, waste of time.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
So you and Ghoul go pat yourselves on the back over your enlightenment, which absolves you from having to do anything more than complain. I think I'll go out and change something.
Just expressing my opinion.
Sorry.
Oh, and you be sure to let us know what you are doing to "change something".
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Umm... how do you know I'm not doing anything?
Just a guess, actually, based on the fact you never have any suggestions about what to do, just gripes about why nothing will work.
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Not even going to bother answering your other points- irrelevant, misdirecting, waste of time.
I sometimes feel exactly the same way.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Call to annul Ukraine poll result
There have been high-level calls for the disputed Ukrainian presidential election to be re-run.
They came as the country's parliament met in emergency session in the capital Kiev to discuss the crisis.
The speaker of parliament urged that new elections be held - a call echoed by the EU's Dutch presidency...
... Parliamentary speaker Volodymyr Lytvyn told MPs that the most realistic solution would be to invalidate the poll.
"The logical issue to be raised is to declare the election politically invalid because the true will of the people is now impossible to establish," he said.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4047421.stm
Quote:
Donetsk rallies around its man
By Lina Kushch
BBC News, Donetsk
The scene in Donetsk is the mirror image of the scene in Kiev.
Here people are celebrating victory - the victory of Viktor Yanukovych. There is a party atmosphere with music every evening in the central square
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4043601.stm
So could partition of the orange and blue states be the answer?
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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