A thread for Democrats Only
POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Sunday, September 6, 2026 15:36
VIEWED: 755368
PAGE 121 of 725
Signym, this is why I do not think you live in America. Your strange delusion is that changing the President also changes what the top 50% of Americans do to the bottom 50%. Another formulation: what the top 10% do to the bottom 90%. You might read an article about how America is actually organized. I suggest http://time.com/5280446/baby-boomer-generation-america-steve-brill/
Quote:Short answer: the people in the top 1% have steadily gotten more and more competent at looking after their own interests while less and less willing to look after your interests. That does not change when a new President is elected.
Lately, most Americans, regardless of their political leanings, have been asking themselves some version of the same question: How did we get here? How did the world’s greatest democracy and economy become a land of crumbling roads, galloping income inequality, bitter polarization and dysfunctional government?
If you ever wondered why replacing one political party with another does not overthrow within a few years the top 1%, that article will explain it to you.
Switching from generalities about America to something very specific, Signym, I summarize: Trump’s bagman takes $400,000 to set up a meeting between Trump and the President of Ukraine. After the meeting, Ukraine stops helping Mueller investigate Trump’s Manafort. Then Trump sends 210 anti-tank missiles to Ukraine for killing Russians (which Trump refused to do, until he flip-flopped). It is obviously quid pro quo even if Trump and his lawyers won’t admit to it.
Signym, one of the selling points for you to vote for Trump was he would not start a war with Russia but Hillary would. And then Signym writes nothing about those 210 anti-tank missiles for killing Russians and antagonizing Putin. Instead, Signym writes hundreds of words about Hillary being bribed. Signym, you are wasting time.
https://qz.com/1286718
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/376351-us-approves-sale-of-210-anti-
tank-missiles-to-ukraine
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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My point, GSTRING, is that politicians of BOTH parties lie. You don't like Trump because he lies? Well, guess what ... do did Hillary and Obama and Bush and Bill. You don't like politicians because they're personally skeezy? Because they violate your Constitutional rights? Don't have the interests of the "common man/ woman" at heart? Represent the oligarchy? Concocted false flags to get us into war?
Huh. Could be said of every President that I can think of in my lifetime except (maybe) Kennedy, but I was too young to know anything about politics back then.
Let's get to characteristics that DIFFERENTIATE politicians, not ones that they all share.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:SECOND, this is why you're not worth replying to: I never posted that, and in fact posted the exact opposite. Why do you think I have "America is an oligarchy" as my signature line?
Signym, this is why I do not think you live in America. Your strange delusion is that changing the President also changes what the top 50% of Americans do to the bottom 50%.
Quote:No, I have not wondered that in decades, but I DO wonder why you ... after saying that both parties are equally at fault ... continue with your anti-Republican/ anti-Trump obsession. Why is that? Do you suppose you could move OFF that idee fixe and onto something more objective?
If you ever wondered why replacing one political party with another does not overthrow within a few years the top 1%, that article will explain it to you.
Quote:SECOND, YOU post THOUSANDS of words about every little insignificant detail about Trump, from the size of his hands to the color of his skin. If you would only either be more fair-minded about it, and wax vitriolic about Hillary's cankles, or at least acknowledge that Obama repeatedly backstabbed the American public, I'd have a great deal more respect for your opinion. But as long as you insist that everything is the Republicans' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.
Signym, one of the selling points for you to vote for Trump was he would not start a war with Russia but Hillary would. And then Signym writes nothing about those 210 anti-tank missiles for killing Russians and antagonizing Putin. Instead, Signym writes hundreds of words about Hillary being bribed. Signym, you are wasting time.
Also, it would be nice if you would stop strawmanning me.
How about this: You stop obsessively posting how much you hate Trump/GOP/ Texas Republicans at every opportunity, show a LITTLE perspective, and we can have a decent conversation. Does that sound fair?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Hi KIKI, I did respond to your post but this was at risk of being buried in the shuffle...
Quote:
Yes. At the absolute best, it's redundancy.- SIX
Redundancy to what? To the non-existent national training and jobs programs? To the non-existent public works projects?- KIKI
And that's only if it were done on a temporary basis as a program to transition existing military service members out of an active duty role. -SIX
Why? just because you say so doesn't make it so. - KIKI
I don't agree, but not because it necessarily represents an numeric expansion (i.e. numbers of military volunteers increasing) but because it expands the scope of "military code of justice" to non-military situations even further. If there's any reason at all for putting recruits under "martial law" it's because they will be forced into a wartime situation, where obedience is required. But there's no reason to put people under "martial law" because they're learning how to make their beds, brush their teeth, and run a bulldozer. - SIGNY
This will STILL be the military. People will go for basic training. They will be called up for combat duty if they need to defend the country. - KIKI
That's kind of my point. If the end goal here is not actually lowering the existing numbers in the military - SIX
It's not. And I never said it was. It's to get us more value at home for government money spent on the military that would otherwise be wasted.- KIKI
I fear that the numbers would rise because of how desperate people are going to become for any sort of meaningful jobs as more get shipped overseas or replaced with automation. ... I don't believe the Government would put any limits to how many people could join this program since the labor would be extremely cheap ... Who's to say that this wouldn't grow? - SIX
Are you saying the government would somehow be 'forced' to admit the flood of applicants? And. Wait. Weren't you arguing this was such a bad deal no one would go for it? Do you think you can keep your arguments straight? 0 KIKI
... and they'd be signing over their lives on contract to the Government until their time was up. These "employees" would have no real say about the direction their lives go while enlisted ... SIX
You mean, JUST EXACTLY LIKE HOW THINGS ARE NOW? - KIKI
Everybody here knows how corrupt our Government and businesses are. SIX
Do you have a point? - KIKI
... and by the time they could leave there might not be a whole lot of good paying jobs utilizing the skills they learned SIX
... And that's different from now ... how exactly? KIKI
... if there are now twice as many new recruits in there as well as a waiting list, so they're probably much more likely to re-enlist for a small bonus or bump in pay for the next 4 years of their lives. This circle only stands to get more vicious as the ranks become professional caliber after re-enlisting 1 or 2 times because it's better than the alternatives. - SIX
And how's THAT different from now?- KIKI
You just go round and round, and go nowhere.- SIX
Hmm... offhand, it's the "value added" argument ..., the one that should be the most acceptable ... that troubles me most. It creates a motivation that could expand the [military] endlessly, EVEN IF there are no current wars being fought and no need for a constant/ expanded military force. The program would eliminate any possible "peace dividend" and any possible rational for reducing the military force/ budget by expanding the scope of the military into peacetime. I think that's the thing that bothers me.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Hmm... offhand, it's the "value added" argument ..., the one that should be the most acceptable ... that troubles me most. It creates a motivation that could expand the [military] endlessly, EVEN IF there are no current wars being fought and no need for a constant/ expanded military force. The program would eliminate any possible "peace dividend" and any possible rational for reducing the military force/ budget by expanding the scope of the military into peacetime. I think that's the thing that bothers me.
This.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
My point, GSTRING, is that politicians of BOTH parties lie. You don't like Trump because he lies? Well, guess what ... do did Hillary and Obama and Bush and Bill. You don't like politicians because they're personally skeezy? Because they violate your Constitutional rights? Don't have the interests of the "common man/ woman" at heart? Represent the oligarchy? Concocted false flags to get us into war?
Huh. Could be said of every President that I can think of in my lifetime except (maybe) Kennedy, but I was too young to know anything about politics back then.
Let's get to characteristics that DIFFERENTIATE politicians, not ones that they all share.
The shear number of Trump's lies are so staggering that you would make money in Vegas if you take 1 to 9 odds he's lying every time he speaks. This isn't, "they all do it" territory, not even close. This is gluttonous lying, gorging, Roman banquet style lying. This is sociopathic lying bordering on mental health issues volume of lying. I believe amongst his other epically poor traits, his lying is one of the worst ones. So this lying of his DIFFERENTIATES him from all of his predecessors. Bonus for Putin!
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Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
My point, GSTRING, is that politicians of BOTH parties lie. You don't like Trump because he lies? Well, guess what ... do did Hillary and Obama and Bush and Bill. You don't like politicians because they're personally skeezy? Because they violate your Constitutional rights? Don't have the interests of the "common man/ woman" at heart? Represent the oligarchy? Concocted false flags to get us into war?
Huh. Could be said of every President that I can think of in my lifetime except (maybe) Kennedy, but I was too young to know anything about politics back then.
Let's get to characteristics that DIFFERENTIATE politicians, not ones that they all share.
The shear number of Trump's lies are so staggering that you would make money in Vegas if you take 1 to 9 odds he's lying every time he speaks. This isn't, "they all do it" territory, not even close. This is gluttonous lying, gorging, Roman banquet style lying. This is sociopathic lying bordering on mental health issues volume of lying. I believe amongst his other epically poor traits, his lying is one of the worst ones. So this lying of his DIFFERENTIATES him from all of his predecessors. Bonus for Putin!
The only thing Trump is guilty of compared to any other politician is that his lies are the most talked about by the MSM at a time where more people are connected to the news than any past president.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:Prove it.
The shear number of Trump's lies are so staggering that you would make money in Vegas if you take 1 to 9 odds he's lying every time he speaks.
HINT: You can't.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Just to reiterate.
It's still the military. Only we don't send them overseas to waste trillions of taxpayer dollars in countless wars. We keep the military here, at home, ready to defend the US home soil should the need arise.
There are very few jobs in the US that can't be exported. Anything i-net can be transmitted from foreign countries. Manufacturing plants can be moved. The two types of jobs that have to be done here and nowhere else on the planet are public projects (construction-related), and caring for people. Those jobs will never move away.
And the money that we would waste in war overseas is invested in those projects here, in the US - on conservation, rebuilding, service, and so on. You could count that as part of the peace dividend.
But let's talk about the another part of the peace dividend - the lives spared, the disabilities avoided. And on top of that, the military service members would leave with something they don't get now, which is valuable job skills. And since those jobs will never physically leave, there will always be a demand.
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Yes. At the absolute best, it's redundancy.- SIX
Redundancy to what? To the non-existent national training and jobs programs? To the non-existent public works projects?- KIKI
And that's only if it were done on a temporary basis as a program to transition existing military service members out of an active duty role. -SIX
Why? just because you say so doesn't make it so. - KIKI
I don't agree, but not because it necessarily represents an numeric expansion (i.e. numbers of military volunteers increasing) but because it expands the scope of "military code of justice" to non-military situations even further. If there's any reason at all for putting recruits under "martial law" it's because they will be forced into a wartime situation, where obedience is required. But there's no reason to put people under "martial law" because they're learning how to make their beds, brush their teeth, and run a bulldozer. - SIGNY
This will STILL be the military. People will go for basic training. They will be called up for combat duty if they need to defend the country. - KIKI
That's kind of my point. If the end goal here is not actually lowering the existing numbers in the military - SIX
It's not. And I never said it was. It's to get us more value at home for government money spent on the military that would otherwise be wasted.- KIKI
I fear that the numbers would rise because of how desperate people are going to become for any sort of meaningful jobs as more get shipped overseas or replaced with automation. ... I don't believe the Government would put any limits to how many people could join this program since the labor would be extremely cheap ... Who's to say that this wouldn't grow? - SIX
Are you saying the government would somehow be 'forced' to admit the flood of applicants? And. Wait. Weren't you arguing this was such a bad deal no one would go for it? Do you think you can keep your arguments straight? 0 KIKI
... and they'd be signing over their lives on contract to the Government until their time was up. These "employees" would have no real say about the direction their lives go while enlisted ... SIX
You mean, JUST EXACTLY LIKE HOW THINGS ARE NOW? - KIKI
Everybody here knows how corrupt our Government and businesses are. SIX
Do you have a point? - KIKI
... and by the time they could leave there might not be a whole lot of good paying jobs utilizing the skills they learned SIX
... And that's different from now ... how exactly? KIKI
... if there are now twice as many new recruits in there as well as a waiting list, so they're probably much more likely to re-enlist for a small bonus or bump in pay for the next 4 years of their lives. This circle only stands to get more vicious as the ranks become professional caliber after re-enlNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
btw, many countries with COMPULSORY service offer civilian, non-combat service alternatives, including Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_service#Civilian,_unarmed_or_no
n-combatant_service_option
SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).
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