A thread for Democrats Only
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UPDATED: Sunday, September 6, 2026 15:36
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Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:...Instead, they need to be made SUFFICIENT and SECURE, as does everyone else. And their living needs to come from their work - their productive input to society; and not from family, or from control over the levers of power.
Good post.
I mostly agree. The only differens being that earning money by working iz a consept that's dayz are numbered.
Assuming the current mess eventually gets scrapped, I think the only peepl who will be paid in the future beyond the normal standard credit will be athletes and artists.
Well that kind of sounds like communism to me.
I can't imagine we're going to be seeing an America where I'm getting paid to stock product overnight the same amount that a brain surgeon gets paid.
I do, however, believe that there could be a ton of benefits to a Basic Universal Income. That's $12,000 per year to everyone, regardless of race, sex, and class. You get it. I get it. Even Trump and Clinton get it.
For somebody like me, I could actually live off of that alone. All of the money that I made would then be able to be spent on things that I'd never buy for myself, thus stimulating the local economy more.
Anybody who's under 18 wouldn't be able to spend it. It would go into a college and/or trade school fund. If they opt out of any training or school past high school then they don't get to collect any of that money and they only begin getting the universal income on their 18th birthday.
You could have some more free cash to work on your cars.
JSF could put an extra 12,000 bucks a year into the DOW.
Hillary could put an extra hit out every year on somebody she didn't like.
Trump could buy a few thousand extra bricks every year for his little wall.
Second could finally move out from his Texas Republican Mom's basement.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:And once you point us to this third way, we will certainly believe you. Is it Denmark? Is it South Korea? Where is this third way that Americans can copy? And how do you imagine America goes from where it is, with the quirky people it has, to become this better country? America runs the way it does because it is to the advantage of the people who actually run it. They are still following the basic plan laid down by wealthy slave-owners who wrote the Constitution in 1788. It wasn't the best plan, but it was the best they could write at the time for their own benefit.
Originally posted by 1kiki:
It's the assumptions you two make I have a problem with. Whether you agree it'll work or not, both you SECOND assume that to make poor people better off, rich people need to be made poor. You claim SECOND sees it as a viable solution while you think it'll fail.
Neither of you seem to understand that there's a different way to get there, that doesn't involve anyone being poor.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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An article about the mental quirks of some Americans and how those quirks left America where it is:
White Evangelicals’ Continued Support of Trump Feels Surprising. It Shouldn’t.
By John Ehrenreich, May 07, 2018, 5:45 AM
Jerry Falwell Jr., president of evangelical college Liberty University, put it this way: “God called King David a man after God’s own heart even though he was an adulterer and a murderer,” adding, “I think evangelicals have found their dream president.”
One of the enduring puzzles of contemporary American politics is why white evangelicals, who loudly proclaim their devotion to the teachings of the Bible, continue to support the thrice-married, six-times-bankrupted, multiple-times-unfaithful, chronically lying president, who has, at the very least, violated three of the Ten Commandments (“Thou shalt not commit adultery,” “Thou shalt not steal,” and “Thou shalt not bear false witness”) and arguably several others.
. . . Evangelicals’ religious beliefs seem in direct opposition to their support for the president’s actions. To many, the evangelical embrace of Trump seems a “corruption of a religious tradition by politics,” as Michael Gerson put it in his recent Atlantic cover story.
But behind the apparent disparity, there exists a psychological kinship between Trumpism and evangelical thought—at least, for white evangelicals. (In this article, I am focusing on white evangelicals.)
More at https://slate.com/technology/2018/05/white-evangelicals-would-keep-sup
porting-trump-even-without-roe-v-wade.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:6ixStringJack, you won't live to see a Basic Universal Income in your state. It is even less likely than you living long enough to ride a starship to the Firefly Universe.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I can't imagine we're going to be seeing an America where I'm getting paid to stock product overnight the same amount that a brain surgeon gets paid.
I do, however, believe that there could be a ton of benefits to a Basic Universal Income. That's $12,000 per year to everyone, regardless of race, sex, and class. You get it. I get it. Even Trump and Clinton get it.
For somebody like me, I could actually live off of that alone. All of the money that I made would then be able to be spent on things that I'd never buy for myself, thus stimulating the local economy . . .
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Universal Basic Income fails in Finland
By Natalia Castro - May 5, 2018
http://sonorannews.com/2018/05/05/universal-basic-income-fails-finland/
Finland to end basic income trial after two years
Government rejects request for funds to expand scheme and plans stricter benefits rules
www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/23/finland-to-end-basic-income-tria
l-after-two-years
"The idea of UBI has gained traction recently amid predictions that automation could threaten up to a third of current jobs." I think that 6ix's pay will always be competitive with robots. Those things will be expensive to buy, while 6ix will work for only food -- a few dollars a day will buy 2,000 calories. Robots can't compete with that. A comic for 6ix: http://bizarro.com/comics/may-7-2018/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Finland doesn't have a money printing press.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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"And once you point us to this third way, we will certainly believe you."
I already did, more than once. And 6-string found at least one of them, though you're too stupid to.
When you do, perhaps you could respond to what I posted, rather than 6-string's interpretation.
So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
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Quote:Only in your imagination did you answer that question. I don't want your bullshit theorizing and hypothetical scenarios. I want you to point to an actual example. I gave you two examples, but you pick your own: Denmark, because of Bernie Sanders using it as an example of what America could be and South Korea, because it threw two crooked Presidents and the greediest, richest industrialists into jail. America should have done the same with Nixon and, next on the list, Trump.
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"And once you point us to this third way, we will certainly believe you."
I already did, more than once. And 6-string found at least one of them, though you're too stupid to.
When you do, perhaps you could respond to what I posted, rather than 6-string's interpretation.
www.cnn.com/2018/04/06/asia/south-korea-park-geun-hye-corruption-intl/
index.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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I see that - with prompting - you were able to find at least one post. So it's not that I didn't post something - as you claimed - "And once you point us to this third way, we will certainly believe you." ie You lied. AGAIN.
And your refusal to discuss tells me - you've got nothing. So once again, you resort to insult, setting after-the-fact preconditions, and changing the topic.
You've amply displayed that you're too stupid to participate in an actual conversation.
So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?
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Quote:1kiki, if you aren't a Russian troll, then you are one fucking nutjob if you actually live in the USA. Do you remember writing this?
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I see that - with prompting - you were able to find at least one post. So it's not that I didn't post something - as you claimed - "And once you point us to this third way, we will certainly believe you." ie You lied. AGAIN.
And your refusal to discuss tells me - you've got nothing. So once again, you resort to insult, setting after-the-fact preconditions, and changing the topic.
You've amply displayed that you're too stupid to participate in an actual conversation.
Quote:You went too far, 1kiki. The American rich don't have to become poor, but they do have to become poorer. The American rich are not about to cooperate in anything that makes them even a little bit poorer or even slows down the rate they get richer. Kiplinger’s has revealed just how powerfully the “myth of merit” still dominates our national discourse over our super rich and their fabulous fortunes.
It's the assumptions you two make I have a problem with. Whether you agree it'll work or not, both you SECOND assume that to make poor people better off, rich people need to be made poor. You claim SECOND sees it as a viable solution while you think it'll fail.
Neither of you seem to understand that there's a different way to get there, that doesn't involve anyone being poor.
This myth of merit holds that the ultra rich among us owe their incredibly good fortune to good behavior of one sort or another. Either they work incredibly hard or perform incredible feats — or discipline themselves to lead fantastically frugal lives. As a society, in effect, we simply do not want to believe that our rich may have gained their riches through exploiting others or rigging our economy or just finding themselves in the right place at the right time. So we ascribe to our awesomely affluent rich noble qualities that make them ever so deserving of their wealth.
https://ourfuture.org/20180423/the-fake-frugality-of-the-fabulously-fo
rtunate
1kiki, the rich will fight with all their might the Democrats because the Dem's agenda will be paid by the taxes of the rich. The rich don't want to pay:
Democrats have an agenda nobody knows about
www.vox.com/2018/5/7/17326576/stormy-daniels-trump-michael-avenatti-mi
dterm-elections
The Democratic Party is running on policy. Their ideas include:
1) a range of measures to strengthen workers’ rights to form labor unions and go on strike,
https://abetterdeal.democraticleader.gov/the-proposals/
2) an ambitious infrastructure plan of the sort Trump promised but never delivered,
https://abetterdeal.democraticleader.gov/creating-jobs-lowering-costs-
boosting-local-economies/
3) the most sweeping revision of antitrust policy we’ve seen in a generation or two,
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/31/16021844/antitrust-better-de
al
4) a crackdown on prescription drug prices,
https://abetterdeal.democraticleader.gov/prescription-drugs/
5) and a big new scheme to subsidize child care costs for most Americans.
https://abetterdeal.democraticleader.gov/pass-the-child-care-for-worki
ng-families-act/
Critically, none of this involves abandoning Democrats’ core commitments on racial or gender justice issues, all of it is focused on the economic realm.
Research from Vanderbilt University’s Larry Bartels shows that economic policy issues tend to unite rank-and-file Democrats while dividing Republicans, while culture war issues are exactly the opposite. Many Republicans, in other words, have at least a few strong disagreements with conservative economic policy, and many Democrats have at least a few strong disagreements with cultural liberalism.
www.vanderbilt.edu/csdi/includes/Workingpaper2_2108.pdf
In other words, a campaign focused on culture war topics tends to shore up the GOP base, and one focused on economic policy can fracture it. Dem
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