A sad state of affairs...

POSTED BY: DarkArchon
UPDATED: Saturday, November 27, 2004 00:54
VIEWED: 6750
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SIGNYM

Tuesday, November 23, 2004 3:25 AM

HK- I guess that reveals the state of my knowledge about Shakespeare!

SIGNYM

Tuesday, November 23, 2004 1:23 PM

There are a lot of ppl in the USA who apparently can't deal with reality, and Bush is one of them. Their minds are in some imaginary land where God pats them on the back each night and tell them to take Iraq and, while they're at it, spread capitalism around the globe. (Having had religious upbringing, I could say something about "Thou shall not kill" and the money-changers in the temple... but I won't! )

But stupidity is eventually self-cancelling, although natural selection works long-term for empires, business models, and religions. Fifty years ago, when we were the only industrial power left standing, we could get away with total irrationality. Today we're swimming with sharks, and if we slip ... well, I'm sure China, Russia, the EU and Brazil will all be happy to help us out. So to speak.

Just so you can say you heard it first: Bush will be remembered as the President under which our dollar was rejected as the global currency. And global warming will become a painful problem in 15 years. But hey, we're all OK because God loves us! He told me so this morning.

HERO

Tuesday, November 23, 2004 3:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
There are a lot of ppl in the USA who apparently can't deal with reality, and Bush is one of them. Their minds are in some imaginary land where God pats them on the back each night

As opposed to the reality were people reject the existence of God? There's billions of folk in the world who believe in one way or another. Not so many who disbelieve. I'd say dismissing the believers is just an elitists way of justifying their distaste for Democracy in action. They didn't vote your way so they must be stupid.

I've lived in 3 Red states counting PA. I've found the same thing. Democrats and Republicans sharing the same basic core moral values. Values they hold more dear then their class interests or elitist philisophical notions. Most are God, Family, and Football, all of which they manage to fit in on Sunday.

They do not adopt uniform politics. They are split between Republicans and Democrats and for the most part vote partisan interests in all things local. Why? Because local issues generally reflect and do not challenge those core beliefs. When those beliefs are challenged the Reds find themselves on the same side and vote accordingly.

I noticed Kerry remarking in an interview that he only lost by 50,000 votes. How can the Democrats ever expect to compete nationally when they discount the millions whose votes they did not get? Last tally I heard the difference was about 3 million.

I note for the record that this has happened before. Reagan Democrats, Tennessee is Bush Country (Gore lost that election at home, not in Florida), Dixiecrats, all those people on the Mayflower, the ones who went west, the ones who voted for a Lincoln, Truman, a couple Roosevelts, a Kennedy, and a crazy billionaire.

Now the liberal elitists, they been around awhile too. We called em Torries, we knew em as the slave holding plantation owners, we saw em justifying segregation, embracing communism and tellin people that trees birds were more important then jobs and families, tellin people how much to eat, how much to love, how to watch TV, and how to raise their kids. All with good intentions and always cursing the damned fool common folk for their stupidity.

Quote:

But stupidity is eventually self-cancelling, although natural selection works long-term for empires, business models, and religions. Fifty years ago, when we were the only industrial power left standing, we could get away with total irrationality. Today we're swimming with sharks, and if we slip ... well, I'm sure China, Russia, the EU and Brazil will all be happy to help us out. So to speak.

So would the Soviets, the Nazis, the Bath'ists, the slavers, and the Kings and Princes of Europe. The sharks have always been there and it aint luck thats saved us, its faith. Faith in ourselves, faith in our works, faith in our children, and faith in America. The people, not the academics and liberal institutions.

Perhaps you and your fellows would be more comfortable with a President Kerry or living in Canada or Europe. Thats fine. But get out of the way cause the rest of us are comin through. We're building this new world one day at a time. Don't worry though, when you and your European buddies need help...and you WILL need help sometime...we'll be there for you. Thats the American way.

H

UNICORN

Tuesday, November 23, 2004 4:06 PM

Item 1: Not all good Christians are pro-Bush.

Item 2: I'm not dismissing all believers everywhere when I say I am dismayed that some people are willing to hold certain beliefs even when they have been PROVEN IMPOSSIBLE by repeated, unbiased scientific testing.

Item 3: You don't have to be a fundamentalist or even believe in God to be a good person. Being a Christian doesn't require you to give up on scientific thought. Being a Christian doesn't automatically mean that God is on your side, because HUMANS ARE FALLIBLE.

And as for all of you just "comin' on through...?" Watch where you step. That soft stuff you guys are walking on? That's my civil rights.

There is no such thing as a weed.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, November 23, 2004 4:27 PM

I suspect my basic moral values would be very familiar to you. I believe in loving your neighbor as yourself even if you think he's misguided. I grieve for all dying children around the world. (Having gone through that special hell, it's quite a sore spot with me.) I believe in fairness. I believe that what you do for yourself dies with you, but what you do for others lives on. I believe in leaving the world a better place for our children- mine, yours, and everyone else's. I believe in preserving the rich biological heritage that we were born into, not because birds and trees are "more important" than people but because we need them all to prosper. (I consider that "enlightened self-interest"). I believe in not reducing our children's world to the most resistant weeds and pests and agricultural necessities.

I believe in individual responsibility and individual freedom. I believe that in order the make individual responsibility meaningful, no one should be forced to live under any form of tyranny, whether it be religious, economic, or political. I believe that if it is necessary to unite to fight tyranny, that does not detract from our individuality.

There are many people who do believe in God and use religious teachings to inform their moral choices. Then there are those who believe in God and use that belief to reject the reality that is so richly laid out before them. I realize that I'm a very small minority in the United States, even among Democrats, despite our shared values.

I'm sure we could take up endless hours arguing about the nature of religion and who will eventually "win", and I really don't want to waste my time or yours. But please note that China- the largest nation in the world and an up and coming superpower- is at heart an atheistic society. As my Confucian friends keep reminding me, Confucianism is a philosphy not a religion.

BTW- The way you lump slave-owning Tories along with segregationist, communists, and tree huggers is historically and contemporaneously inaccurate. Tree-huggers and communists have been (and still are) anti-segregation and anti-slavery. The only thing that ties them together is that YOU think that they're "elitists". Some of them are actually fighting for your economic future, your rights, your children's biological heritage but I doubt that you would see that.

BTW Unicorn- Hey, sorry about my dispariging remark about weeds!

UNICORN

Wednesday, November 24, 2004 4:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
BTW Unicorn- Hey, sorry about my dispariging remark about weeds!

That's okay. I'm only sort of talking about plants when I say it. It's a very college-age thing to say, but I like it anyway.

There is no such thing as a weed.

SGTGUMP

Wednesday, November 24, 2004 5:09 AM

Quote:
And do not think for an instant that they or any those that have served with them give a rats ass what you think they should do in a given situation. If you want to scream about a quarterbacks play calling on Monday night football, you go right ahead. But don’t sit there on you comfy sofa snacking away, and think that you have any clue about the actions of those military folks out in the field.

As a former Soldier I have to agree.

DARKARCHON

Wednesday, November 24, 2004 8:13 AM

This letter was read on News Radio 1200 WOAI today by Jeff Boulton in San Antonio, Texas. I thought it provided a nice contrast to all the hype about the 'viscious, heartless Marines in Fallujah'.

**begin**

Letter From Fallujah
LAST UPDATE: 11/23/2004 6:58:04 PM
Posted By: Pamela Page

Dear Dad -

Just came out of the city and I honestly do not know where to start. I am afraid that whatever I send you will not do sufficient honor to the men who fought and took Fallujah.

Shortly before the attack, Task Force Fallujah was built. It consisted of Regimental Combat Team 1 built around 1st Marine Regiment and Regimental Combat Team 7 built around 7th Marine Regiment. Each Regiment consisted of two Marine Rifle Battalions reinforced and one Army mechanized infantry battalion. Regimental Combat Team 1 (RCT-1) consisted of 3rd Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion (3rd LAR), 3rd Battalion, 5th Marines (3/5); 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines (3/1)and 2nd Battalion, 7th Cavalry (2/7). RCT-7 was slightly less weighted but still a formidable force.

Cutting a swath around the city was an Army Brigade known as Blackjack. The Marine RCT's were to assault the city while Blackjack kept the enemy off of the backs of the assault force

The night prior to the actual invasion, we all moved out into the desert just north of the city. It was something to see. You could just feel the intensity in the Marines and Soldiers. It was all business.

As the day cleared, the Task Force began striking targets and moving into final attack positions. As the invasion force commenced its movement into attack positions, 3rd LAR led off RCT-1's offensive with an attack up a peninsula formed by the Euphrates River on the west side of the city. Their mission was to secure the Fallujah Hospital and the two bridges leading out of the city. They executed their tasks like clockwork and smashed the enemy resistance holding the bridges. Simultaneous to all of this, Blackjack sealed the escape routes to the south of the city.

As invasion day dawned, the net was around the city and the Marines and Soldiers knew that the enemy that failed to escape was now sealed.3/5 began the actual attack on the city by taking an apartment complex on the northwest corner of the city. It was key terrain as the elevated positions allowed the command to look down into the attack lanes. The Marines took the apartments quickly and moved to the rooftops and began engaging enemy that were trying to move into their fighting positions.

The scene on the rooftop was surreal. Machine gun teams were running boxes of ammo up 8 flights of stairs in full body armor and carrying up machine guns while snipers engaged enemy shooters. The whole time the enemy was firing mortars and rockets at the apartments.

Honest to God, I don't think I saw a single Marine even distracted by the enemy fire. Their squad leaders, and platoon commanders had them prepared and they were executing their assigned tasks.

As mentioned, 2nd Battalion, 7th Cavalry joined the Regiment just prior to the fight. In fact, they started showing up for planning a couple of weeks in advance. There is always a professional rivalry between the Army and the Marine Corps but it was obvious from the outset that these guys were the real deal. They had fought in Najaf and were eager to fight with the Regiment in Fallujah. They are exceptionally well led and supremely confident. 2/7 became our wedge. In short, they worked with 3rd Battalion, 1st >Marines.

We were limited in the amount of prep fires that we were allowed to fire on the city prior to the invasion. This was a point of some consternation to the forces actually taking the city. Our compensation was to turn to 2/7 and ask them to slash into the city and create as much turbulence as possible for 3/1 to follow.

Because of the political reality, the Marine Corps was also under pressure to "get it done quickly." For this reason, 2/7 and 3/1 became the penetration force into the city.

Immediately following 3/5's attack on the apartment buildin

RUE

Thursday, November 25, 2004 2:57 AM

What the first post and the coda on this post seem to mistakenly believe in is some "liberal" media that is crucifying the soldier. Where is it? I don't see American media in full witch-hunt mode. Arab media of course is entitled to its own opinion.

But what is even stranger is the notion that 'liberals' are itching to hang that soldier out to dry. (For 'liberal' read: sheep, crucifiers, cowards, gun-haters out for military blood, traitors, ingrates, and comfy latte-drinking whiners who aren't 'doing anything'.)

For anyone who persists in that mistaken notion, I'd like to point out the most recent example of Abu Ghraib.

As I recall, it was those horrid liberals who wanted the gummint and military brass to take responsibility for their policies and instructions. It was the Prez-dent and the Pentagon who were only too happy to disavow their soldiers, calling them rogues and letting them take the fall. The media merely reported what the gummint told them (in its effort to mold public perception).

And as for the REAL crucifixtion, the one that results in jail time, the military is vigorously pursuing the courts martial, which continue unabated to this day.

DARKARCHON

Thursday, November 25, 2004 8:38 AM

'For anyone who persists in that mistaken notion, I'd like to point out the most recent example of Abu Ghraib.'

Because the 'Prezdent' is in the habit of calling up troops in the field and telling them to take photos of nude prisoners all the while hoping the media don't get a hold of it. Got a line nobody else does? I'm just curious...

BTW...what those soldiers did was wrong, but if that's the worst we do, we're still miles ahead of video taping cutting peoples heads off and sending it out for the world to watch. The BIG difference being that for us it was the Exception to the rule and not the RULE as it is with the terrorists.

-Dark/Blue

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