Just stop the useless complaining.
POSTED BY: LostInTheVerse
UPDATED: Thursday, November 25, 2004 04:27
VIEWED: 24069
PAGE 17 of 17
I can't speak for anyone else but I read you loud and clear.
But now that makes three who have had these experiences that seem to go by me. Drat! Dang! mumbles pouts paces
PS But seriously folks. I have not even a clue to what are the kinds of things to which you are referring. And now I'm just itching with curiosity. What ARE you all talking about ???
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
HKCavalier, I'm about to say things below. If they are wrong to your knowledge/training please let me know.
Hey Sigma! Thanks for the long reply. There’s so much to talk about! ‘Course, I don't think I'm qualified to say that anything you've posted is “wrong.” That's one of the nice things about practicing a non-organized religion, there's nothing wrong about it.
But in terms of ritual practice and spellcraft I do have some experiences that contradict the standard issue “Wiccan beliefs.” Some of what passes for Wicca just seems made up or borrowed from some belief system or other. I don't think of witchcraft as a belief system. I really do think of it as a study of how the Universe really works.Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Also, I have found on the net *many* people recommend, and it has been in most bibliographies that I've seen is "Three Books Of Occult Philosophy" by Henry Cornelius Agrippa of Nettesheim. It is subtitled "The Foundation Book of Western Occultism." It was written around 1500 CE and draws on many different religions. From angelic languages to the magic of numbers to the Kabbalah. I've only had the time to read the first ~100 pages as it's a *heavy* read. It's from Llewellyn's Sourcebook Series if you're interested.
Thanks for that. It's been, now that I think of it, over 15 years since I've cracked a book on witchcraft. I think I have read material that was based upon the "Three Books" particularly with respect to angelology, but I've certainly never looked it over directly. Thanks for the recommendation.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Prayer can be defined as communication with the divine. With this definition it could be said that the Wiccan spells are equivalent to Christian prayer as they both are communication with the divine. Yes/No?
I think for the purposes of discussion "the divine" begs all kinda questions. I think quantum physics may have just as much to say about the efficacy of prayer. Are you aware of the work of Dr. Masarua Emoto with water crystals? He found that speaking "to" the water as the crystals formed changed the form of the crystals in dramatic ways. In short: compassionate loving words produced ornate snowflake-like forms and hateful words created ugly disconnected blotches. I'm pretty sure prayer works on the same principle. I don't personally believe that a remote deity is needed or really involved, paternalistically granting our wishes from on high.
Seriously, that can’t possibly make sense to anyone. Sure, people believe it, but you just make yourself crazy trying to understand why a loving God the Father would let this innocent child die and that one live. When we buy into something so contrary to experience, it cripples our discernment. To my way of thinking, the mind (in the broadest possible meaning of the word) of the subject of the prayers along with the minds of those doing the praying are enough to effect healing. I think human will and human speech, when properly focused can influence reality profoundly. That said, I would agree that prayer could be described as the most elemental form of spellcraft.
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
And if you do harm, then the rule of three comes into play. Which, since it's rather unpleasant (if bad things are afoot), people will be detered from doing it. But, it's also a reward for those that do good.
Basically, like a parents punishment/reward model to encourage people to do good and deter them to do bad.
I'm not at all surprised that you've never heard my interpretation. It's not in the books. It has been orally passed down from teacher to student. It’s pretty hard to step out of this culture we’re given, even for Wiccans and even for Wiccans who write books. Wicca is a practice that predates the current Judeo-Christian mindset by many thousands of years. Witchcraft predates all modern notions of ethics and morality. By mode
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HK and Sigma,
I'd love to do the email thing, but don't start up one on my account. I don't have enought to contribute to be a real participant.
But I would actually like to find out what your collective experiences have been like, since my life seems to have been meager in that way. I have no clue what you are referring to.
The other thing I'd like to share at some point is my own enlightenment about the world and the consequences of our actions, directed and driven by our intentions.
Finally, I do agree that if one believes in a soul, then for symmetry's sake its existance should be two-ended: it comes from somewhere and goes to somewhere. (Rather than the Christian belief that it comes from nothing then exists forever.) Decades ago I did hear something that resonated with what my mother would tell me about never being able to take anything back b/c that moment in time will never come again. What this person said was that our decisions and our actions are immortal, and that the effects of what we do will carry forward for all time.
I guess I'm old and low in energy. Eternal life seems a burden. Either you are in the same place, forever and ever, with no way out and nothing changing, or you are destined to do things over, and over and over. I prefer to think of myself dissipating until there is nothing left but peace. Not peace for me, as I will not be there, but peace in the spot where I used to be.
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