Voted for Bush - voted for war, death, and lies. Voted for Bush - voted for war, death, and lies. Voted for Bush - voted for war, death, and lies. Voted for Bush - voted for war, death, and lies.
POSTED BY: Ghoulman
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 02:38
VIEWED: 5882
PAGE 3 of 3
Quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:Quote:
... you do know it's impossible to use a nuclear device on the US or it's allies right? You've heard of detente?"
Surely you're joking. You're assuming that the people who'd set off a nuke here (terrorists) would value human life over and above making their point, which we've seen over and over again is not the case. Detente doesn't really affect the fringe groups who'd actually use a nuke, dude.
Besides, at least historically, (apart from the current administration, which just finds somebody with oil --who isn't Saudi Arabia-- to blame) we wouldn't go nuking another country if it was a terrorist organization and not a nation that attacked us.
But it isn't going to be a nuke, anyway. Nukes are expensive and hard to come by even on the black market. It'll be a chemical or biological weapon set off in some large public transportation area, where they can get maximum spreading and affect the largest number of people.
Impossible? You're dreaming, and it's a dangerous, dangerous dream.
I think you make good points. However, it's accepted that should a power use a WMD on the USA... the USA will nuke you.
And it's perfectly legal, accepted, and expected. The USSR knew this as did everyone else. The USA made it very clear they would vapourize thier enemies should they dare.
Now, there is a real disconnect between criminal organizations, like terrorists, who may or may not be associated with a "host" nation. Would you have nuked Afganistan if 9/11 were a Sarin attack or dirty bomb?
So what's the answer?
The end of nuclear proliferation. It's a priority.
Make note that each and every country around Iraq has nuclear material, plants, and some even have working missels (Israel for example). Iraq is the only nation that doesn't have any of these.
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Quote:
The REPUBLICANS took the high road???
What do they smoke on this planet you're from?
And do the televisions there pick up anything besides the FoxNews channel?
Compare the two conventions and get back to me.
It's sad when the general media is so far to the left that it can't see the center.
Since you're bashing Fox, which network do you work for?
I respect your opinion, though I cannot agree with it.
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Quote:
It's sad when the general media is so far to the left that it can't see the center.
That's Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Joe Scarborough, Tucker Carlson, William Safire, Ann Coulter, Don Imus, and all the other conservative media icons bashing the "liberal media" fallacy into your brain.
In reality, it's true the media can't see the center...but that's because it's so far to the RIGHT.
This media finds Ann Coulter to be a reputable source. The same Ann Coulter that's been refused repeatedly by the right-wing Wall Street Journal, and was cut by the right-wing National Review. When the NATIONAL FRICKIN' REVIEW thinks your messages are too right-wing, you have to start re-evaluating yourself.
"Bye now. Have good sex!"
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Actually, it's my own time spent watching the news since I was little (becoming the news junkie my dad is!)
It's true that I favor Fox news because they report the way I think the media ought to. CNN for example, I feel is irresponsible with many of the things they report (do you remember Gulf War One and the old joke that Saddam got his intel from CNN?)
Anyways, I'm not here to bash liberals or start a fight, I just am tired of people being really ugly and hateful, especially towards the President. I enjoy politics, but this year or so has gotten really nasty and I wish people would just go back to polite debate about issues, not the person.
Here's hoping...
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I agree things are nasty and we need dialogue.
But we have to start with facts, and the process for obtaining facts requires reading second and even third independent sources.
It means fact-checking on a regular basis to make sure that the things our leaders are telling us are true and based in fact.
It means understanding the difference between fact (news) and talking points, between fact and spin. (Talking points are nothing more than propoganda, and they rely on the idea that if you repeat something 47 times on 12 different stations, people will believe it, regardless of the reliability of the information being transmitted.)
It means calling out even our allies when they use dishonest tactics, and making sure that our allies know the truth. Mr. Bush failed on this point utterly.
I was driving behind one Bush supporter the day before the election. His bumper sticker said "John Kerry: Viet Cong Vet". Don't talk to me about the negativity of Democrats when your people denegrate a man with an honorable war record by calling him a traitor, simply because in this land of the free he has a different vision for our country than the man currently running it.
Bush didn't personally come out against those dishonest 'swiftboat veterans' ads at all. He had a press secretary issue a weak general statement about negative ads and especially about the fact that they weren't attatched to the campaign. (Because if Bush didn't make them, it's not his responsibility to speak out against them?)
That's totally irresponsible. This wasn't the first time it happened either. Remember John McCain running in a certain Presidential primary 4 years ago? The W.-support attack machine spread vicious and even racist rumors about McCain's stellar war record and about his family.
There's enough negativity to go around.
We the People need transparency in government; transparency is what ensures accountability. The W. Bush administration has fought tooth and nail against transparency, against accountability. They are the most secretive administration, possibly ever, certainly of our lifetime.
But c'mon-- can't you name any important mistakes you've made over the past four years? You're human. I'm human too, and I could name plenty of mine. Our President literally doesn't think he's made a single mistake. That's dangerous. Because if you are wrong, and you can't admit it, then you will stay the wrong course rather than admit error and change course to make better decisions.
I'm not name-calling here. I'm not bashing the President. I disagree with him, and I don't think he's been completely honest with us.
By Bush supporters, I've been called a traitor, because I disagree. I disagree not because I hate America, but because I love it. I love the high aspirations our founders set for us. I love the deliberate openness of the language, which in its day was truly barrier-breaking. When I am called a traitor because my beliefs are different, what does that say about the state of our country? Traitor is the dirtiest name there is, friends.
I am criticizing what I believe to be very dangerous mistakes of this administration, and yes, at times, dishonest ones. This country, this government, is ours-- it belongs to us! Of the people, for the people, by the people. All of us.
You want to know what's un-American? Disenfranchising people who disagree. Non-representation of people who disagree. Refusal to yield basic human rights to certain members of your number who are different from your small, personal idea of "normal." Calling dissenters or peaceful protesters traitors because they disagree with you and dare to exercise their First Amendment rights. Refusing to be accountable, even to the people who put you into office in good faith. That's un-American. All of these are traitorous to the principles on which the US was founded.
Just by the way...
None of my bumper stickers (I have my whole bumper covered) are mean or call Bush a traitor for believing what he believes. The c
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Quote:
Originally posted by aeronstorm:
Actually, it's my own time spent watching the news since I was little (becoming the news junkie my dad is!)
It's true that I favor Fox news because they report the way I think the media ought to. CNN for example, I feel is irresponsible with many of the things they report (do you remember Gulf War One and the old joke that Saddam got his intel from CNN?)
Anyways, I'm not here to bash liberals or start a fight, I just am tired of people being really ugly and hateful, especially towards the President. I enjoy politics, but this year or so has gotten really nasty and I wish people would just go back to polite debate about issues, not the person.
Here's hoping...
That's commendable... but we are talking about a President who criminalized entire peoples. Thousands are in US jails, no lawyer, no phone call, perhaps being tortured right now! GWB made it clear when he said "You are either with us, or against us".
That's fascism.
This isn't your everyday politics, this is about the USA being a criminal nation that lied to the world and made war on a people for no reason at all, murdering hundreds of thousands... like the Nazis did.
You might believe the USA would never do such thngs but then there are millians of AMericans who still mistakenly believe WMDs were indeed found in Iraq.
The debate is serious, not academic. The difference is the loss of life. That's why I have gotten mad at people online, people will lie, cheat, and post on fireflyfans.net to preserve thier fragile little view of a God fearing apple pie stained USA. Frightened people are like that.
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dig it.
None of my bumperstickers attack the President.
But I do say "Iraq Distracts" and "Regime Change Begins at Home."
But I grow weary of arguing with the brainwash, for they truly do not realize...they do not.
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