A sad state of affairs...
POSTED BY: DarkArchon
UPDATED: Saturday, November 27, 2004 00:54
VIEWED: 6750
PAGE 1 of 4
I try to give a wide berth to anything politcally related, not that this is specifically political, but a friend of mine who served in the military sent this to me and I wholeheartedly agree so I thought I'd share it.
**Begin**
No doubt. To bad the rest of the sheep will happily be led in the witch-hunt. Raising up another of the brave Americans who got sent over there, for media crucifixion. And likely the military will cow tow and prosecute to appease the masses. All for for being sent to do a duty none of those screaming will EVER have the balls to do. The same crusaders that would put me in jail for killing an intruder in my home is out for military blood now. And this guy is next in line. Because of course, the marine did not "know" the ENEMY was going to try to kill anybody. He should have first had a nice heart to heart to understand the deeper motivations of this honorable adversary. He should have waited until this person actually pulled out a concealed weapon, or dismembered some of his friend’s bodies with a grenade or suicide bomb. Better yet he should probably never shoot at an ENEMY unless he himself is already being fired on. No wait, we couldn't be sure the underprivileged gentlemen were actually trying to kill him could we. Let's have our forces waited until bullets and shrapnel are riddling their bodies before any attempt to return fire. Otherwise we might accidentally kill an ENEMY COMBATANT who didn't really mean any harm. And the thought of this atrocity occurring in a WAR cannot be endured. The sheep’s frustration and ignorance have reached a fevered pitch in this situation. The bigger picture is lost on them, and the media just helps to feed their myopia.
What I find truly amazing is that the men and women of our military are still willing to put their lives on the lines everyday to defend these people. The people of Iraq and those of this country. I am not entirely sure I would anymore. Our men and women out there have to make split second decisions everyday on a course of action that could leave them and those they serve with dead in an instant. These brave people are being second guessed and persecuted by in-DUH-viduals whose greatest daily decision is whether to get the _mocha or caramel latte at Starbucks each morning. The military should tell these folks whining about that which they have no concept to, with all due respect “Fuck off, and concentrate on matters more suited to your level of thinking and involvement. Like how to navigate a yield sign properly.”
If your not happy with the policies and politics of our country so be it. No matter what course of action in any situation or an decision of political forces not everyone will be pleased. So protest things you would like changed. Write congressmen and hand out leaflets. More power to you, and I wish you the best of luck. And I’ll probably be right along side you for many of them. Enjoy this freedom, but remember those that have died to win it for you. Remember those that died to win it for others. Remember those that put their lives on the line everyday because we ask them to. Honor them and their sacrifice. They do the jobs they are sent to do. They are not the political decision makers. They are the sword America wields. Do not whine at the sword for the shedding of blood when it was swung to do so. And do not think for an instant that they or any those that have served with them give a rats ass what you think they should do in a given situation. If you want to scream about a quarterbacks play calling on Monday night football, you go right ahead. But don’t sit there on you comfy sofa snacking away, and think that you have any clue about the actions of those military folks out in the field. And don’t tell me how you would have things differently. Because obviously you aren’t doing anything, now are you.
~Murdoch
**In-DUH-viduals used without permission from the works of Douglas Adams.
**end**
The fact that this poor soldier just happened to be the one 'saddled' with an 'imbedded' reporter( out t
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hi DarkArchon,
Just so's you know, the subject of the marine shooting the Iraqi man on the ground is being discussed in the "What's going on in Fallujah" thread (at least it was until the merry Signy/Geezer war started up over there).
Speaking as someone who has opposed the war at every stage of its sad history, I find the uproar over this particular incident sensational and exploitative. I would say "naïve" but I really don't think we're dealing with honest naïveté here. It's mere squeamishness parading around as morality. It's just the opposite number of that whole Monica Luwinski "scandal"--a sensational non-event guaranteed to raise ratings into which people can pour their unreasoning hate.
America, respectfully, grow the 
up!
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Oh lord. Does this person seem fit to return to peacetime society any time soon?
I personally would like to prosecute the higher-ups for their policies, rather than focus on the 'swords'. But saying you are merely a sword to avoid responsibility doesn't work: as the powerless grunt you are also the inevitable fall guy. If this author hasn't got the idea by now that the military OWNS him and his military brethren to use them at will, then he's thick as a brick. He volunteered to be a pawn of a heartless master. Now he blames reporters, US citizens, the fog of war, and the Geneva Convention.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Why does the writer think that he's defending "our freedom" by shooting Iraqis? Since WMD apparently never existed and Iraq was never a threat, one wonders (or SHOULD wonder) why we are in Iraq at all. I feel sorry for him. He's stuck in a situation that requires him and his fellow soldiers to make these split-second decisions. The NEJM study that I referred to in the Falujah thread details the human cost on BOTH sides of this war. When 28% of Marines admitted to being responsible for the death of non-combatants you have to wonder what sort of dehumanizing exeperience this is. A large number suffer from PTSD and depression, and when combined with the civilain casulties in Iraq, it leads me (and should lead everyone) to question WHY we're throwing so many people into the meat-grinder.
So as far as the "outrage" swirling around this incident- I think it's pretty synthetic. Anyone who has been following the occupation with a modicum of understanding would know by now that this happens a lot, and it's not the soldiers' fault. So I sympathize to some extent w/ the outrage of this solider, although I think the target is misplaced.
BTW- HK, I'm surprised that you see my interaction with Geezer as just a "war". The point that I keep trying to make, perhaps not too clearly, is that the Administration obfuscates, delays, defers, and outright lies at every stage: from the reason why we are there (WMD) to the pace of reconstruction (Every day in every way it's getting better and better.) to the cost in terms civilian dead ("We don't do body counts"), American soldiers killed (Bush won't allow photos of coffins coming home). If you want to find out what's happening in Falujah, or anyplace else in Iraq (or the USA for that matter) you won't find out from this government or this media. I think Geezer thinks I'm trying to crucify the grunt, when really the enlisted person is a victim too. I hope w/ my last post, Geezer understands that point.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Any opinions on the Iraqi elections?
"Keep the Shiny side up"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Oh my 
... but you asked! 
I guess my quick answer is "At the point of a gun- at least for Sunnis".
My guess??? Allawi will win(unless he's assasinated b4 the election). He's backed by our military and represents 55-60% of the Iraqi population (the Sunnis quibble about census data but I think it's pretty clear that Shiites make up a majority of the population.)
Whether elections are held in the Sunni regions or not, the Sunnis will be under specific occupation and will feel disenfranchised. Once a Shiite government comes to power, Sunnis will feel even worse.
Just to go back to something I said many threads ago, creating a "unified, secular, democractic" goverment in Iraq is near-impossible. Shiites want nothing to do with "secular", Kurds will chafe at "unified" (if the government tries to gain control of northern oil fields- which I'm sure it will) and Sunnis have NO interest in "democratic" whatsoever (payback's a b*tch). USA Admin has apparently decided that they can live with 2 out of 3 and decided to drop the "secular" part of the plan. Still, at this point, I'm not sure that even 2 out of 3 will work. The Sunnis will feel totally disenfranchised under a Shiite government, and given the rather vengeful nature of Iraqi society the Sunnis will probably want to avenge their dead relatives, so the new government will face an active insurgency even after the elections.
But this prolly needs to be in a new thread.
EDITED TO ADD: I created a new thread, and I didn't even post my opinion! See, I'm recovering!!
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
For more background information (the point of view of the cameraman) you can read what he wrote on his own blog about the events of that day. Here's the link: http://www.kevinsites.net/ The entry is dated 21 November and is titled, "Open Letter to Devil Dogs of the 3.1" which I am inferring are the Marines that Kevin has been working alongside. Here is the lead in to his account:
Quote:
excerpted from http://www.kevinsites.net/
To Devil Dogs of the 3.1:
Since the shooting in the Mosque, I've been haunted that I have not been able to tell you directly what I saw or explain the process by which the world came to see it as well. As you know, I'm not some war zone tourist with a camera who doesn't understand that ugly things happen in combat. I've spent most of the last five years covering global conflict. But I have never in my career been a 'gotcha' reporter -- hoping for people to commit wrongdoings so I can catch them at it.
This week I've even been shocked to see myself painted as some kind of anti-war activist. Anyone who has seen my reporting on television or has read the dispatches on this website is fully aware of the lengths I've gone to play it straight down the middle -- not to become a tool of propaganda for the left or the right.
But I find myself a lightning rod for controversy in reporting what I saw occur in front of me, camera rolling.
It's time you to have the facts from me, in my own words, about what I saw -- without imposing on that Marine -- guilt or innocence or anything in between. I want you to read my account and make up your own minds about whether you think what I did was right or wrong. All the other armchair analysts don't mean a damn to me.
Here it goes.
What follows is an account of Kevin's activites on that day leading up to the incident and then what followed with respect to the videotaped footage and how it ended up being aired in the US. It looks to me like he is indeed trying to bend over backward to be fair in his reporting. I really have no comment to make on the situation since I have nothing in my own experience to compare it with and there is no way for me to get the viewpoints of everyone involved. So I'll just present this link as an additional piece of evidence and include the end of the detailed entry:
Quote:
excerpted from http://www.kevinsites.net
So here, ultimately, is how it all plays out: when the Iraqi man in the mosque posed a threat, he was your enemy; when he was subdued he was your responsibility; when he was killed in front of my eyes and my camera -- the story of his death became my responsibility.
The burdens of war, as you so well know, are unforgiving for all of us.
I pray for your soon and safe return.
Kevin 1:37 PM
On a side note, this is my first post in quite a while. I've been trying to limit the time I spend on-line since that number had gotten close to the two hour mark right before the elections. I've been ghosting a lot of the threads and am learning, as always, and will chime in every so often but probably will not get involved in too many long responses. That whole real world responsibility thing going on
. Time management... ugh.* editted to add: I was wracking my memory for where I first saw the link to Kevin Site's blog so I could give proper credit. Probably dailyKos but I can't be sure. The link got posted in a couple of different places at around the same time so at this point it's a crap shoot.
Nature has infinite variety. Straight lines, not so much.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Soupcatcher- Time management? WHAT time management?
I have to reduce my time on the board too. Nice to see your around, if only for the moment. Thanks for link. As always, you provided us with valuable insight.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
BTW- HK, I'm surprised that you see my interaction with Geezer as just a "war". The point that I keep trying to make, perhaps not too clearly, is that the Administration obfuscates, delays, defers, and outright lies at every stage: from the reason why we are there (WMD) to the pace of reconstruction (Every day in every way it's getting better and better.) to the cost in terms civilian dead ("We don't do body counts"), American soldiers killed (Bush won't allow photos of coffins coming home)...
Hey there, Signy,
When I said that you and Geezer were embroiled in a "merry war" I was making a hifalutin Shakespearian reference to Much Ado About Nothing in which the two main characters are locked in a constant battle of wits that instantly upstages whatever's going on around them, but which is nonetheless perfectly entertaining to watch. Oh well...
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
The thread title reminded me...
Check this out. I can't believe this is real. But it is.
According to a new Gallup poll, (site: http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/login.aspx?ci=14107) "Only about a third of Americans believe that Charles Darwin's theory of evolution is a scientific theory that has been well supported by the evidence, while just as many say that it is just one of many theories and has not been supported by the evidence. The rest say they don't know enough to say."
Furthermore, forty-five percent "also believe that God created human beings pretty much in their present form about 10,000 years ago. A third of Americans are biblical literalists who believe that the Bible is the actual word of God and is to be taken literally, word for word."
Now I have nothing against religion serving as a guide for conscience and as a spiritual rock in a difficult world. But when it trumps scientific fact, when it contradicts science and people don't reexamine things, that really puts fear into my heart. Wow.
There is no such thing as a weed.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME