Is this really "the lowest point in our nation’s history that they can remember"?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, September 6, 2026 20:05
VIEWED: 20528
PAGE 15 of 22

If a woman actually gets raped, the man should be locked away. If it's found out after the fact that she lied about it, she should be locked away for the same amount of time he would have been.

That's all you're going to get from me.

If a man grabs a chicks ass, she should kick him in the balls, or have her boyfriend do it.

Everybody needs to stop being such a pussy.


4 out of 5 girls in college, according to Kiki's stats, don't seem to have a problem. Instead of putting all of the focus on the 13.2% of 4,000 men that answered a questionnaire, maybe we should also be asking what the 4 out of 5 women are doing right (or aren't doing wrong)?

It would seem to me that you'd have a much larger pool of data to work with from that angle.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
If a woman actually gets raped, the man should be locked away. If it's found out after the fact that she lied about it, she should be locked away for the same amount of time he would have been.

That's all you're going to get from me.

If a man grabs a chicks ass, she should kick him in the balls, or have her boyfriend do it.

Everybody needs to stop being such a pussy. - SIX

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Why?
Why does "everyone" need to stop being such a "pussy"?
Do you think women should act like men?
Do you think mens' behavior should determine morality?

Yanno, just touching ANYone with a hostile intent in CA is considered "battery" (one step up from assault).
There's a reason why it's called "sexual assault" ... focus on the word assault.
Are you OK with assault?

It seems to me that you're excusing unnecessarily aggressive behavior, whether it's between men, or between men and women, or between women, and whether it involves genitals or not.

At what point .... how aggressively .... would one have to behave in order to trip your threshold to say "not OK"? Let's say that a woman silently removes a man's hand from her breast several times, but it keeps creeping back. Is that OK? What about if he keeps touching her crotch and she says "No"? What about if he grabs hard enough to leave bruises? Repeatedly rubs his crotch against her on the bus or in the subway? How about catcalls? Following her partway down the sidewalk making kissy noises?

I know that the ideal of constant re-affirmation during sex (yanno, a woman constantly having to say "yes" to each progression of sex) isn't workable and the lines are pretty blurred, there are a lot of gray areas that a man could get tripped up on, but drawing the line at "rape" is like drawing the line at getting knifed before calling "foul", it gives too much leeway to the aggressor. I'd draw the line elsewhere.

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4 out of 5 girls in college, according to Kiki's stats, don't seem to have a problem. Instead of putting all of the focus on the 13.2% of 4,000 men that answered a questionnaire, maybe we should also be asking what the 4 out of 5 women are doing right (or aren't doing wrong)?

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What about "IN ADDITION TO"?

I've already conceded that I think women need to take more responsibility for their behavior and for the outcomes in their lives. Remaining a silent victim for years and years; or getting drunk in compromising situations; or not saying "no" when you mean "no"; is irresponsible. On the other hand, putting all of the onus on the presumed victim, and none on the aggressor, is kind of bass-ackwards, don't you think?

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It would seem to me that you'd have a much larger pool of data to work with from that angle.

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It seems to me that focusing on the behavior of the smaller percentage of perps - from a criminal angle - is more effective than focusing on the behavior of the much larger percentage of potential victims from an education angle. But by all means, do both.

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Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Indeed.

Still, I think you're missing a much larger picture. Both men and women do things that they don't necessarily want to do ... like having to defend yourself physically against a much larger opponent or accepting violent "hazing" rituals or conceding to have sex when you don't want to ... because it's EXPECTED of them. That's pretty dysfunctional messaging. Where are those messages coming from and how can we stop them?

I think a lot of social dysfunction comes from bad "messaging"; we really should examine social expectations and maybe work on changing some of them.



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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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So I just want to parenthetically hive this discussion off for a moment in a slightly different direction.

I think the presumption is that men are expected to be the sexual aggressors: they're expected to make the "first move".

But why is aggression even mentioned in the context of sex?

I know people would point to sociobiology and the "selfish gene" and say that a male who "spreads his seed" effectively will have a larger genetic impact on the following population and that the male role is genetically determined, and indeed in most societies today males follow that role.

But it's not universal; in the remaining matrilineal societies, where women make the decisions and own and inherit the property, THEY are the ones initiating sex and making - and breaking - relationships.
The Place In China Where The Women Lead

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/11/26/501012446/the-place-
in-china-where-the-women-lead
According to Wiki, there are about 20 societies that are both matrilineal and matrilocal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_matrilineal_or_matrilocal_societ
ies

In other societies, males engage in mass displays of fitness and the women select from among them:

The Wodaabe wife-stealing festival: Stunning images from the world's vainest tribe where men dress up to take each other's women - and the women have as many husbands as they please
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3149684/The-Wodaabe-wife-steal
ing-festival-Stunning-images-world-s-vainest-tribe-men-dress-s-women-women-husbands-please.html

Even the concept that males are genetically aggressive in general took a beating (so to speak) when a chimp tribe lost all of its most aggressive males (they "out-competed" lesser males for beef carcasses thrown in a restaurant bin, but contracted tuberculosis and died because the scraps were tainted) and converted to a peaceful matrilineal society which has withstood the inclusion of several "outmember" males and three generations (that's the last I heard of them).

So the social role of male aggression isn't biologically driven ... at least, not inescapably so.

The problem is that THIS society rewards aggression.

Why?

Because the rules and messages are being made by the most aggressive, who've managed to ensconce themselves at the top?

Anyway, just something to think about.

****

More directly, I think that a lot of young men are learning about their sexual role from porn, which features a lot of aggression towards women. Having the next generations learn about sex, or life in general, from a videoscreen is a real problem for society going forward, at least IMHO.

Again, just noodling.

And now, I have to get back to real life.


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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Let's say that a woman silently removes a man's hand from her breast several times, but it keeps creeping back. Is that OK? What about if he keeps touching her crotch and she says "No"? What about if he grabs hard enough to leave bruises? Repeatedly rubs his crotch against her on the bus or in the subway? How about catcalls? Following her partway down the sidewalk making kissy noises?

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I have never, ever, EVER in my life seen any of these things happen.

I'm fairly certain that in most cases if this were to happen in public, you'd have more than one man in the vicinity getting in the middle of it.

I'm not as old as some people who post here, but I'm not a kid. I've been around and seen the changes in society. I'm not going to say that these things don't occur just because I don't see them, but I'm not going to believe for a second that 13.2% of men would do any of them.

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I know that the ideal of constant re-affirmation during sex (yanno, a woman constantly having to say "yes" to each progression of sex) isn't workable and the lines are pretty blurred, there are a lot of gray areas that a man could get tripped up on, but drawing the line at "rape" is like drawing the line at getting knifed before calling "foul", it gives too much leeway to the aggressor. I'd draw the line elsewhere.

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I don't like your rules. I've opted out. The only reason I've even had sex in the last 4 or so years is because she was literally jumping on my lap and she had everything to lose. I didn't even have to leave my own house.

This is the level of desperation that will likely happen in the coming decades when most men just decide that sex isn't worth it at all anymore and there are many easier and safer and far less expensive alternatives. Women have 100% power in any relationship, and that's written in stone once the marriage contracts are signed with the government. No thank you. I decline.

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4 out of 5 girls in college, according to Kiki's stats, don't seem to have a problem. Instead of putting all of the focus on the 13.2% of 4,000 men that answered a questionnaire, maybe we should also be asking what the 4 out of 5 women are doing right (or aren't doing wrong)? -Six

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What about "IN ADDITION TO"?

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I did. Hence the "also" you missed.

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I've already conceded that I think women need to take more responsibility for their behavior and for the outcomes in their lives. Remaining a silent victim for years and years; or getting drunk in compromising situations; or not saying "no" when you mean "no"; is irresponsible. On the other hand, putting all of the onus on the presumed victim, and none on the aggressor, is kind of bass-ackwards, don't you think?

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I can't think of a single instance in my life, as a white male, that anybody ever gave me the benefit of the doubt or made excuses for my stupidity. I'm essentially a libertarian in all other aspects of my life and I don't see why I should make any changes to that for this topic. Personal responsibility is paramount. Nobody gets a do-over.

When you're doing the right thing, you're prepared for anything that happens and you have good situational awareness and somebody STILL goes out of their way and manages to hurt you, that's a different scenario altogether.

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It would seem to me that you'd have a much larger pool of data to work with from that angle. -Six

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It seems to me that focusing on the behavior of the smaller percentage of perps - from a criminal angle - is more effective than focusing on the behavior of the much larger percentage of potential victims from an education angle. But by all means, do both. -Sigs

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Yep. That's what I said.

Problem is they only go after males.

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Stil

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