Syrian army punches through to beseiged Deir Ezzor
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 04:46
VIEWED: 11650
PAGE 1 of 1
I just thought I'd post this historic item. Like the retaking of East Aleppo, which was a turning point against al Qaeda, this is another turning point in the war .... this time, the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) along with Russian spec ops and air support have reached the embattled city of Deir Ezzor, which has been besieged by ISIS for over three years.
It was a race between American 'partners', spec ops/contractors versus the Syrian government/partners as to which forces would reach Deir Ezzor first. It looks like Syria won.
In addition, much of the desert area between Sukhna and Deir Ezzor is being taken by the SAA. I read an interesting prediction a little over a year ago, which said that the hilly areas in NW Syria (eg Idlib) and cities would be hard-won because the terrorists have had both the terrain and the oppty to dig in, but the desert areas would fall quickly because of lack of defensible areas. It seems that was a good prediction.
https://southfront.org/syrian-war-report-september-5-2017-army-officia
lly-breaks-isis-siege-on-deir-ezzor/
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There's little difference in terms of savagery and slaughter of civilians on either side. Is this supposed to be good news for somebody?
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Yes, it's good news. Unless maybe you prefer ISIS.
Seems like you do.
ALEPPO (SYRIA), July 29, 2017 (Xinhua) -- Syrian people enjoy their time near the ancient citadel of Aleppo city in northern Syria on July 28, 2017. 
People commute in the shattered Ansari neighborhood, east of Aleppo city, northern Syria, July 28, 2017. The rebels had stayed in the east of Aleppo for five years before they evacuated in December of 2016. Seven months after the Syrian army took full control over the city, life starts to beat again through devastation and destruction in the area.
http://www.prokerala.com/news/photos/syria-aleppo-feature-281702.html
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I'll only respond to on-topic posts.
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Clear out ISIS so Assad's forces can gas whoever's left. Oh yeah, great news!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Clear out ISIS so Assad's forces can gas whoever's left. Oh yeah, great news!
What a dupe.
But hey, keep on believing ... whatever it is that you believe.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What a dupe.
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ORIGINALLY POSTED BY RIVERLOVE
QUOTE
UNQUOTE
Yep, that's YOUR level of intelligence!
Hey, I could do this all day. But every random irate answer that you post just makes you look like a bigger and bigger turd. So, do YOU want to look like a bigger and bigger turd with each post?
Your choice!
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It's a sign that Assad and Russia's suppression of the revolution is going well - that they're actually bothering to fight ISIS. I wonder if this will affect Assad's oil & gas deals with ISIS?
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"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
It's a sign that Assad and Russia's suppression of the revolution is going well - that they're actually bothering to fight ISIS.
This is what that suppression looks like: shelling of rebel-held towns. Just an example from today (GRAPHIC):
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"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:
This is what that suppression looks like: shelling of rebel-held towns.
oh, you mean like Kiev shells Donbas?
And it's not like Donbas residents (or Russians) are invading western Kiev, so what's the excuse?
Quote:
Amnesty Says U.S.-Led Coalition May Have Committed War Crimes In Mosul
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/07/12/536870827/amnesty-sa
ys-u-s-led-coalition-may-have-committed-war-crimes-in-mosul
Quote:
The massacre of Mosul: 40,000 feared dead in battle to take back city from Isis as scale of civilian casualties revealed
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/mosul-massacre-bat
tle-isis-iraq-city-civilian-casualties-killed-deaths-fighting-forces-islamic-state-a7848781.html
KPO, you've got that same wobbly sense of right and wrong that some of the liberals here have about Antifa. You know that comment that you made, how it was so obvious the equal crimes should be treated equally that it went without saying?
Quote:http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61877&p=2
But this is so obvious that it goes without saying. Who ever said anything different? I smell a lie.
I do indeed smell a lie. And it's you, KRAPO.
One of the things that I thought was interesting is that right after the liberation of East Aleppo, Russia sent a bunch of police to control the situation. Russian police, in East Aleppo. And I thought Police??? Why police??. Until I read about the reprisal killings in Mosul, and the reason clicked. To drive the point home, it looks like Russians have thought this whole "liberation" thing through better than we have.
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Yanno, I just wanted to bump this to make sure that we all know that KPO lies to himself.
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Is this thread littered with sarcasm? Can't quite tell.
Is KPO arguing that Trump should repeat Obama's giving Mosul back to ISIS, to commit further genocide? Then even more military casualites can be multiplied.
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It seems to me that G, KPO, THUGR, and RIVERLOVE have a soft spot in their hearts for ISIS. That's because they're so focused on "Assad must go" that they fail to see how evil their proxy-army really is. Instead, they cling to the fiction that these are just "freedom loving rebels" instead of head-lopping jihadists.
There has been a looong campaign of indirect CIA support for both al Qaeda and ISIS in Syria. Most "Free Syrian Army" soldiers trained by the USA promptly defected to the terrorists. Weaponry destined for the "Free Syrian Army" wound up in the hands of terrorists. The "Free Syrian Army" was primarily a fiction to allow western support for proxy terrorists in Syria.
Did you know that (until about a year ago) Saudi Arabia was paying jihadists in Raqqa with Saudi money and supplying them with captagon, as well as supplying them with weapons and ammunition? Saudi Arabia is STILL supporting terrorists in Syria. And let's not forget Turkey's role in coddling terrorists and trans-shipping weapons to terrorists in Syria, and laundering ISIS oil out of Syria too. In fact, destroying Syria has been a multi-national project involving the USA, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar (and most of the other Gulf States); Jordan, some eastern European nations, and any other proxies and sycophants that the CIA could dredge up, altho some nations have stepped away from this dead CIA project.
Quote:
Journalist Interrogated, Fired For Story Linking CIA And Syria Weapons Flights
A months-long investigation which tracked and exposed a massive covert weapons shipment network to terror groups in Syria via diplomatic flights originating in the Caucuses and Eastern Europe under the watch of the CIA and other intelligence agencies has resulted in the interrogation and firing of the Bulgarian journalist who first broke the story. This comes as the original report is finally breaking into mainstream international coverage.
Investigative reporter Dilyana Gaytandzhieva authored a bombshell report for Trud Newspaper, based in Sofia, Bulgaria, which found that an Azerbaijan state airline company was regularly transporting tons of weaponry to Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates (UAE), and Turkey under diplomatic cover as part of the CIA covert program to supply anti-Assad fighters in Syria. Those weapons, Gaytandzhieva found, ended up in the hands of ISIS and al-Qaeda terrorists in Iraq and Syria.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-28/journalist-interrogated-fired
-story-linking-cia-and-syria-weapons-flights
I'm linking Zerohedge simply because it's the first one at the top of the search list, but I listened to an hour-long interview of the reporter who broke this story. This woman is a cautious, fact-based investigative journalist. She has (leaked) manifests and done on-the-ground interviews in Syria and Turkey as to where these weapons passed through or were used, so I find this to be a very credible story.
There is a report, I don't know how credible, that the USA airlifted some 20 ISIS commanders out of Deir Ezzor before it's total liberation by the SAA.
http://en.deirezzor24.net/with-the-approaching-of-the-battle-of-deir-e
zzor-the-coalition-evacuate-two-of-their-spies-who-operated-as-daesh-commanders-in-western-deir-ezzor/
*****
Quote:Are you just pretending to be that stupid? Syria will militarily re-take all Syrian oilfields, and that will be the end of "ISIS oil". And good f&cking riddance, I say. I'm sure you do, too. [/snark]
I wonder if this will affect Assad's oil & gas deals with ISIS? - KPO
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Clear out ISIS so Assad's forces can gas whoever's left. Oh yeah, great news!
What a dupe.
Oh what great timing. A day after Siggy posted this, the UN released its report on the Khan Shaykhun gas attacks and concluded:
1. Yes, Assad did it
2. Syrian and/or Russian airstrikes targeted the hospital treating the victims
3. The Russian and Syrian governments pushed an entirely false version of events
https://t.co/gvdrDAwCKO
Now let's all wait for Siggy to apologise for being (rudely and aggressively) wrong, again.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It seems to me that G, KPO, THUGR, and RIVERLOVE have a soft spot in their hearts for ISIS.
God, here we go...
Quote:
There is a report, I don't know how credible, that the USA airlifted some 20 ISIS commanders out of Deir Ezzor before it's total liberation by the SAA.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Is KPO arguing that Trump should repeat Obama's giving Mosul back to ISIS,
Of course Obama gave Mosul to ISIS, I mean, he created them, right?
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
Clear out ISIS so Assad's forces can gas whoever's left. Oh yeah, great news!
What a dupe.
Oh what great timing. A day after Siggy posted this, the UN released its report on the Khan Shaykhun gas attacks and concluded:
1. Yes, Assad did it
Now let's all wait for Siggy to apologise for being (rudely and aggressively) wrong, again.
Delusional idiots never apologize. The whole world knows Assad has gassed his people many times, but Ziggy stands by her man like an uncontrollably horny groupie.
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I'd like to access the document KPO, but the link is bad. All I get is this
Quote:
ODS - Sédoc
Official Documents System of the United Nations
Système de diffusion électronique des documents de l'ONU
Official Document System
There is an end-user problem. If you have reached this site from a web link,
- Through your internet options, adjust your privacy settings to allow cookies or
- Check your security settings and make sure this site has not been blocked or
- You are probably using a very slow link that may not work well with this application.
Otherwise you have reached this site through unauthorized means.
I've tried successively lopping off various bits of the link to see if I can reach a good one, but the best I can do is this https://documents.un.org/prod/ods.nsf/home.xsp and I don't seem to be able to pull out the document using their search engine.
Everybody knows that the area was being bombed, even the Syrian government said so. But the report was made without anyone who wrote actually being able to get to and examine the site, and so you have conclusions in the report like this
Quote:
The Commission has not, however, found any evidence to support the claims that HTS or armed groups had a weapons depot in the area ... Satellite imagery shows damage to structure at a nearby grain silo ... though the silo and a nearby bakery were empty.
What, jihadists can't use empty grain silos, bakeries, and nearby "structures" as arms depots? How could you possibly tell if it was, or wasn't, being used as an arms depot, except by repeated absence of activity (pickup trucks etc.) over a period of time? Jihadists are known to use hospitals, and medical treatment centers, factories, and water treatment plants as field offices. It's too bad that they so often use civilian buildings as infrastructural hostages.
When NPR reported in this, they said, in essence: "The UN found that Assad did it." No evidence, no explanation, just a blank bald statement, The devil, or god, is in the details.
----------------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It seems to me that G, KPO, THUGR, and RIVERLOVE have a soft spot in their hearts for ISIS.
God, here we go...
I'm included in a Ziggy rant against you and G? A bona fide WTF moment indeed!
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Quote:
It seems to me that G, KPO, THUGR, and RIVERLOVE have a soft spot in their hearts for ISIS. - SIGNY
God, here we go...
I'm included in a Ziggy rant against you and G? A bona fide WTF moment indeed!
The only way this would be a WTF moment for you is if you don't read your own posts.
ETA: But you have more important things to worry about.
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If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Siggy, try:
https://t.co/gvdrDAwCKO
Original link edited as well.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:
Quote:
The Commission has not, however, found any evidence to support the claims that HTS or armed groups had a weapons depot in the area ...
Sig - What, jihadists can't use empty grain silos, bakeries, and nearby "structures" as arms depots?
A predictable attempt to stir bullshit and muddy the waters - that is, of course complete nonsense. The report said clearly, "no evidence" not "theoretically impossible". What, Russian propaganda hasn't got a line on this yet? Here, try this: https://www.rt.com/op-edge/402233-syria-chemical-report-un/
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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An interesting subplot in the Deir al-Zour assault:
Quote:
US pulls back surveillance on ISIS convoy at Russian request
Surveillance aircraft that were monitoring an Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) convoy stuck in the desert in eastern Syria have left the area at the request of Russian officials, the U.S.-led coalition said Friday.
“To ensure safe de-confliction of efforts to defeat ISIS, coalition surveillance aircraft departed the adjacent airspace at the request of Russian officials during their assault on Dawyr Az Zawyr,” the coalition said in a statement.
ISIS fighters and their family members have been stranded on eleven buses in the desert for more than a week.
The convoy showdown began last month, when ISIS struck a deal with the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah — a chief ally of the Syrian government — for safe passage from an area near the Syrian border with Lebanon to ISIS-held territory in eastern Syria bordering Iraq. To get there, the original 17-bus convoy planned to travel through Syrian government-controlled territory.
The U.S.-led coalition, intent on making sure the convoy did not make it to the Iraqi border and link up with other ISIS fighters, cratered the road and destroyed a bridge with airstrikes. That forced six buses to turn back to Palmyra, a Syrian government-controlled city, and stranded the remaining 11.
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/349886-us-pulls-back-surveillance-on
-isis-convoy-at-request-of-russians
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:In other words, the USA decided to stop THIS PARTICULAR ILLEGAL MILITARY ACTION IN SYRIA.
]Originally posted by kpo:
An interesting subplot in the Deir al-Zour assault:Quote:
US pulls back surveillance on ISIS convoy at Russian request
Because, yanno, unlike Russia, the USA and it's coalition "partners" have never been invited into Syria, which is still a sovereign nation despite the USA's best efforts to the contrary.
But hey, what's a little international law to the USA and it's supporters, who somehow believe that they can bomb and destroy nations at will???
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Thanks for the link.
There are a few reasons why I wanted to see the while document
1) The fact that YOUR references are from such widely-scattered parts of the report led me to believe that this wasn't JUST a report on Khan Shaykhun, but part of a much larger report. And indeed, that is the case.
2) There may be specific conflicting information that could be probative if resolved, or missing information that could throw serious doubt on "who did what".
The report is a larger report that looks at ALL of the actions of ALL of the parties active in Syria. Several parts of the report specifically mention the "international coalition" (i.e. the USA and its partners). Here is one such mention
Quote:When East Aleppo was liberated, all you could hear, nonstop in western press and here by ISIS cheerleaders, was the number of displaced people, estimates ranged from a low of 13,000 to a high of 50,000, IIRC. But with American action in Raqqa, this figure NEVER COMES UP on western press. So, the facts are that almost 200,000 people in Raqqa have been displaced, and god only knows how many people have been killed.
]The Commission is gravely concerned about the impact of international coalition air strikes on civilians. In Al-Jinah, Aleppo, forces of the United States of America failed to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians and civilian objects when attacking a mosque, in violation of international humanitarian law. In Ar-Raqqah, the ongoing Syrian Democratic Forces and international coalition offensive to repel ISIL has displaced over 190,000 persons, and coalition air strikes have reportedly resulted in significant numbers of civilians killed and injured. Investigations are ongoing.
KHAN SHAYKHUN
The greatest discrepancy in eyewitness testimony is the time of the attack. Some eyewitnesses claim that early-warning spotters saw aircraft around 6:20 AM (ten minutes after official sunrise) while
Quote:
The Commission notes that two individuals interviewed by the OPCW claimed that on the morning of 4 April the early warning system did not issue warnings until 11 to 11.30 am, and that no aircraft
were observed until that time.
On the other hand ...
Quote:
Eyewitnesses explained seeing a plane over Khan Shaykhun at around 6.45 am, and numerous interviewees recalled hearing messages from the early warning system 20 minutes prior to the strikes. As further examined below (paras. 17 -18), 11:30 am was the time when the al-Rahma medical point in Khan Shaykhun was attacked by airstrikes including cluster incendiary munitions, though not chemical weapons. In the span of a few minutes, the aircraft, identified by interviewees as a Su-22, made two passes over the town and dropped four bombs. ... Satellite imagery, photographs, and video footage corroborate witness accounts that air delivered munitions hit the impact points of the four bombs
Why is this important?
Chemical weapons work best in early morning hours. That's when the air is usually still, and before heating warms ground-level air, which disperses the toxic agent too quickly.
Most witnesses claim a 6:45 AM attack, including regular missile-srikes (louder explosion), however some of them claim an 11:30 AM airstrike, which is exactly when the SAA claims it hit Khan Shaykhun.
Since the area is held by a terrorist group, they would hardly provide exculpatory evidence for the Syrian airforce. There is the possibility that many of the witnesses were coached, but that two of them provided authentic testimony. Since the best lies are those that contain the most elements of truth, the "official" terrorist story would only have to time-shift the attack and add a few elements. It would be interesting to find out how many witnesses were interviewed and whether the UN was able to interview them at random, whether any women or chil
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Quote:
Breaking News of Saudi Crown Prince's "Secret" Visit To Israel Brings Embassy Scramble
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-11/breaking-news-saudi-crown-pri
nces-secret-visit-israel-brings-embassy-scramble
Of course, Israel would want to coordinate with terrorist-promoting, oppressive monarchy Saudi Arabia!
I should look up ... whatever happened to the brouhaha with Qatar? It looks to me like Turkey has distanced itself from this failed "regime change" project, maybe Qatar has as well.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Because, yanno, unlike Russia, the USA and it's coalition "partners" have never been invited into Syria, which is still a sovereign nation despite the USA's best efforts to the contrary.
But hey, what's a little international law to the USA and it's supporters, who somehow believe that they can bomb and destroy nations at will???
Well Russia has been waging war in the Donbas region of Ukraine for 3 years now, in a war that has killed thousands, in complete defiance of Ukraine's national sovereignty (not to mention annexing Crimea). Funny how you've never criticised Russia for that. When the US conducts bombing missions against ISIS, however...
Quote:
Thanks for the link.
There are a few reasons why I wanted to see the whole document
I hope you're not posting this lengthy armchair analysis/parroting of Russian propaganda talking points for my benefit. I scroll through it.
You're the woman who made post after post promoting the theory that MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet. Your whole shtick is to make yourself sound expert and well-read and reasoned - but ultimately you're just parroting talking points of varying degrees of dumbness from Russian propaganda (or from pro-Russian blogs, which all get their opinions shaped by the Russian propaganda ecosystem).
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:Do you mean that supposed 'invasion' you never found evidence for?
Well Russia has been waging war in the Donbas region of Ukraine for 3 years now ...
Whatever.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:Do you mean that supposed 'invasion' you never found evidence for?
Well Russia has been waging war in the Donbas region of Ukraine for 3 years now ...
Whatever.
Russian Foreign Minister admits Russia's war in Ukraine:
Some more quotes, to put it into context:
Quote:
LAVROV: I have read and heard much criticism that we should not have got involved into the conflicts in Donbass and in Syria. But you should probably look at each given nation comprehensively...
...
Would it be acceptable for Russia, considering its international standing, to keep mum and recognise the coup in Ukraine, and to leave Russians and Russian speakers in Ukraine in the lurch after the first order issued by the organisers of the anti-constitutional armed revolt, which was supported by their foreign sponsors, banned many things that were connected with the Russian language? Should we have kept silent when they discriminated against the Russian language and announced that Russians must be kicked out of Crimea because they would never think like Ukrainians? But it does not matter now. Had we not done what we did, we would have betrayed our civilisation which our forefathers developed over centuries...
http://www.mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02B
w/content/id/2804842?p_p_id=101_INSTANCE_cKNonkJE02Bw&_101_INSTANCE_cKNonkJE02Bw_languageId=en_GB
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:You will note that it was not "Russia" that killed "thousands", but the indiscriminate shelling of civilian centers by Kiev...
Well Russia has been waging war in the Donbas region of Ukraine for 3 years now, in a war that has killed thousands
Quote:Which Russia hopes to restore through the Minsk Protocol, which Kiev refuses to abide by.
in complete defiance of Ukraine's national sovereignty
Quote:
I have read and heard much criticism that we should not have got involved into the conflicts in Donbass and in Syria. But you should probably look at each given nation comprehensively. - Lavrov
KPO, are you subtly backing away from your long-promoted talking point that Russia "invaded" Ukraine? Are you downgrading Russia's actions to "involvement" after-the-fact?
Or do you still assert that Russia "invaded" Ukraine?
Meanwhile, in Syria, the USA and it's multiple partners in the regime change attempt have promoted terrorism and fostered a war which killed 400,000 people.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You will note that it was not "Russia" that killed "thousands", but the indiscriminate shelling of civilian centers by Kiev...
The Russian/separatist assault on Debaltseve alone killed 500, the Russian/separatist shootdown of MH17 killed 300, and as for shelling of civilians, by far the worst incidents have been carried out by the separatists:
Rocket attack on a Ukrainian checkpoint (during a ceasefire) that killed 12:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volnovakha_bus_attack
Here's the CCTV of the attack, the camera pans to the right at the end to show the bus (the video has been geolocated):
Separatist shelling of Mariupol that killed 29:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2015_Mariupol_rocket_attack
Anyone who watches those videos can see that it is the pro-Russian separatists who are indiscriminate when it comes to civilians.
Quote:
Quote:
in complete defiance of Ukraine's national sovereignty
Which Russia hopes to restore through the Minsk Protocol
Quote:
KPO, are you subtly backing away from your long-promoted talking point that Russia "invaded" Ukraine?
Russia started this war that has killed 10,000+ and continues to stoke it with weapons, fighters, etc. Their proxy forces have indiscriminately killed civilians. They've annexed Crimea. "Invasion", "hybrid war" etc - I don't care much about the terminology, and I never have, what matters is that Putin has blood on his hands. And you can't defend him.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:
War in Donbass: 3,600 Civilians Killed by Ukrainian Forces and Neo-Nazi Militia since Minsk II Agreement
According to figures obtained from the Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) authorities, since the February 2015 Minsk II agreement over 3,600 civilians have died in the republic due to shelling, sniper and other attacks by the Armed Forces of Ukraine ...
As the neighbouring Luhansk People’s Republic (LPR) has also experienced similar military strikes and civilian casualties, a very rough estimate would suggest that at least 6,000 civilians have died in strikes by Ukrainian forces on the Donbass republics since Minsk II.
Obtaining accurate figures for casualties in the war in eastern Ukraine is extremely difficult due to the unstable and insecure situation on the ground, and the fact that the conflict is highly politicised and controversial not only locally, but across Europe and globally.
On 3 August the UN assistant secretary-general for political affairs Tayé-Brook Zerihoun reported to the UN Security Council that the total number of conflict-related casualties since the Ukrainian government launched its ‘Anti-Terrorist Operation’ in April 2014 was 30,729, including 9,333 killed and 21,396 injured.
But the report provides no breakdown of where the casualties have occurred other than “in the conflict area”, and there is no indication of which side was responsible.
According to the latest figures from the UN Human Rights Office and the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, from February 2015 to June 2016 261 civilians were killed in the conflict on both sides – far fewer than the DPR’s figures would suggest.
However, the UNHRO stresses that its figures are a “conservative estimate of the OHCHR based on available data” which are “incomplete due to gaps in coverage of certain geographic areas and time periods, and due to overall under-reporting”.
In February 2015, press reports quoted claims from the German BND intelligence service that 50,000 civilians and servicemen people had died in the Ukraine conflict, almost 10 times than figures given by Ukrainian president Petro Poroshkenko only days before, which said 1,200 Ukrainian soldiers and 5,400 civilians had died.
https://off-guardian.org/2016/09/15/war-in-donbass-3600-civilians-kill
ed-by-ukrainian-forces-and-neo-nazi-militia-since-minsk-ii-agreement/
Quote:Cites and links for this bullshit, please?
Russia started this war .... KPO
Quote:So, is this the last that we hear from you about the so-called Russian "invasion" of Ukraine?
"Invasion", "hybrid war" etc - I don't care much about the terminology... KPO
CIVILIAN VICTIMS OF SHELLING BY KIEV FORCES
Time to stop wasting so much time on you.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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The topic of the thread was Syria, not Ukraine.
Despite the American warning to Syrian forces not the cross the Euphrates (I'm sorry, but where does the USA get off telling another nation where to deploy its own troops in its own territory?) that's exactly what Syrian forces did.
Victory has been declared by some of the pro-Syrian fighters. Complete victory is still a ways off. Israel wants a Kurdistan. Someone should tell Netanyahu to go suck an egg.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
War in Donbass: 3,600 Civilians Killed by Ukrainian Forces and Neo-Nazi Militia since Minsk II Agreement
"Off-Guardian" - one of your pro-Russia blogs
Quote:
So, is this the last that we hear from you about the so-called Russian "invasion" of Ukraine?
The only people obsessed with the terminology are you and kiki. Contrary to your nonsense about this being one of my "talking points" I don't typically refer to the conflict as a Russian "invasion" - although one can always make the argument for that word when one country sends its military into another country and takes land by force.
Quote:
CIVILIAN VICTIMS OF SHELLING BY KIEV FORCES
No links, just graphic pictures. LOL that you think that's a slamdunk. Typical Siggy weak-ass evidencing. And even if you had bothered to evidence your claim, it doesn't even counter my point that the most egregious examples of killing of civilians has been done by the pro-Russian separatists. You know, the ones you are saying are "the good guys".
Quote:
Time to stop wasting so much time on you.
Smart, to throw in the towel so quickly.
Quote:
The topic of the thread was Syria, not Ukraine.
Yes, but when you lambasted the USA's violation of Syrian sovereignty (by bombing ISIS), I couldn't resist throwing your own hypocrisy in your face, as someone who cheerleads Russian violation of Ukrainian sovereignty.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:Pro-Russian? Really? Cites and links, please. Typical of you to dismiss facts by name-calling a source.
War in Donbass: 3,600 Civilians Killed by Ukrainian Forces and Neo-Nazi Militia since Minsk II Agreement - SIGNY
"Off-Guardian" - one of your pro-Russia blogs
Quote:Sure, you can "always" make the argument (if you want to stretch the definition terribly) but then you'd have to say that the USA "invaded" Syria.
So, is this the last that we hear from you about the so-called Russian "invasion" of Ukraine?- SIGNY
The only people obsessed with the terminology are you and kiki. Contrary to your nonsense about this being one of my "talking points" I don't typically refer to the conflict as a Russian "invasion" - although one can always make the argument for that word when one country sends its military into another country and takes land by force.- KPO
Quote:"The most egregious" would be the greatest in number. Since all YOU did was post videos- no tally - I decided to do the same.
CIVILIAN VICTIMS OF SHELLING BY KIEV FORCES - SIGNY
No links, just graphic pictures. LOL that you think that's a slamdunk. Typical Siggy weak-ass evidencing. And even if you had bothered to evidence your claim, it doesn't even counter my point that the most egregious examples of killing of civilians has been done by the pro-Russian separatists. You know, the ones you are saying are "the good guys".- KPO
Quote:Heh heh heh
Time to stop wasting so much time on you.- SIGNY
Smart, to throw in the towel so quickly.- KPO
Quote:AND SYRIAN TROOPS, AND SYRIAN CIVILIANS. Or did you "forget" that fact?
The topic of the thread was Syria, not Ukraine.- SIGNY
Yes, but when you lambasted the USA's violation of Syrian sovereignty (by bombing ISIS)
Quote:I doubt you will find me "cheerleading" Russia in Ukraine. That's a typical lie of yours.
I couldn't resist throwing your own hypocrisy in your face, as someone who cheerleads Russian violation of Ukrainian sovereignty.- KPO
Yanno, at one time I started a thread dedicated to a point-by-point comparison of Syria versus the Ukraine. I thought it would be a good exercise to have similar situations with different actors to explore how the situations were the same, how they were different, and how we (that means you, too) reacted with different biases. You stayed away like it was the plague.
Oh BTW, you failed to respond to this ....
Quote:So, no cites or links? I guess Russia DIDN'T "start this war" then. You must just be incessantly repeating your propaganda, again.
Russia started this war .... KPO
Cites and links for this bullshit, please?- SIGNY
Quote:Yep, that's you. Incessantly repeating propaganda.
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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You're the Commie and I'm the Nazi, Sigs.
Even though that doesn't make any sense considering the sources...
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Quote:
Bombshell Report Catches Pentagon Falsifying Paperwork For Weapons Transfers To Syrian [so-called] Rebels
A new bombshell joint report issued by two international weapons monitoring groups Tuesday confirms that the Pentagon continues to ship record breaking amounts of weaponry into Syria and that the Department of Defense is scrubbing its own paper trail.
On Tuesday the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP) and the Balkan Investigative Reporting Network (BIRN) produced conclusive evidence that not only is the Pentagon currently involved in shipping up to $2.2 billion worth of weapons from a shady network of private dealers to allied partners in Syria - mostly old Soviet weaponry - but is actually manipulating paperwork such as end-user certificates, presumably in order to hide US involvement.
The OCCRP and BIRN published internal US defense procurement files after an extensive investigation which found that the Pentagon is running a massive weapons trafficking pipeline which originates in the Balkans and Caucuses, and ends in Syria and Iraq. The program is ostensibly part of the US train, equip, and assist campaign for the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF, a coalition of YPG/J and Arab FSA groups operating primarily in Syria's east). The arms transfers are massive and the program looks to continue for years. According to Foreign Policy's (FP) coverage of the report:
The Department of Defense has budgeted $584 million specifically for this Syrian operation for the financial years 2017 and 2018, and has earmarked another $900 million of spending on Soviet-style munitions between now and 2022. The total, $2.2 billion, likely understates the flow of weapons to Syrian rebels in the coming years.
But perhaps more shocking is the following admission that Pentagon suppliers have links with known criminal networks, also from FP:
According to the report, many of the weapons suppliers — primarily in Eastern Europe but also in the former Soviet republics, including Kazakhstan, Georgia, and Ukraine — have both links to organized crime throughout Eastern Europe and spotty business records.
The sheer amount of material necessary for the Pentagon program — one ammunition factory announced it planned to hire 1,000 new employees in 2016 to help cope with the demand — has reportedly stretched suppliers to the limit, forcing the Defense Department to relax standards on the materials it’s willing to accept.
It is likely that the organized crime association is the reason why the Pentagon has sought to alter its records. In addition, the sheer volume of weaponry continuing to ship to the Syrian battlefield and other parts of the Middle East means inevitable proliferation among unsavory terror groups - a phenomenon which has already been exhaustively documented in connection with the now reportedly closed CIA program to topple the Syrian government.
MORE AT http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-13/bombshell-report-catches-pent
agon-falsifying-paperwork-weapons-transfers-linked-orga
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Pro-Russian? Really? Cites and links, please.
"Off-Guardian" - one of your pro-Russia blogs
Lol, did you think that this was a credible source just because it does its best to look like the Guardian? How did I know straight away that this was another one of your bullshit pro-Russia blogs? Let me teach you something about critical reading Siggy.
My first clue was that the article originally comes from Global Research, another one of your other pro-Russian blogs. My second clue was that it uses the Russian spelling for Donbas, not the Ukrainian spelling. My third clue, I noticed from skim reading, was that the source for its headline claim of 3600 killed by Kiev is the separatist "government" - which is, frankly, hilarious. And my fourth clue was that the 'About' section of the website admits that the site was set up by people who met on the comment section of the Guardian website, disgruntled at the content there and tired of being called 'Putinbots'
https://off-guardian.org/about-2/
Quote:
Typical of you to dismiss facts by name-calling a source.
Typical of YOU not to check your own source for authenticity and reliability.
Quote:
Sure, you can "always" make the argument (if you want to stretch the definition terribly) but then you'd have to say that the USA "invaded" Syria.
Or that the USA invaded Cuba during the Bay of Pigs Invasion - oh wait...
Quote:
"The most egregious" would be the greatest in number. Since all YOU did was post videos- no tally - I decided to do the same.
I clearly posted tallies for each of my examples. 11 killed from the shelling of the checkpoint, 29 killed from the shelling of the city of Mariupol, and nearly 300 killed from the shootdown of MH17. All of these have been investigated and blame pointed at the separatists. We've been through this in the Russia Invades Ukraine thread and you haven't been able to establish a single incident matching these where it was the Ukrainian military responsible for killing the civilians.
Quote:
I doubt you will find me "cheerleading" Russia in Ukraine. That's a typical lie of yours.
Nope, you cheerlead Russia in Crimea all the time, for one. Was that not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Is Russia's pouring of weapons and fighters into Ukraine not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Have you ever condemned it?
Hypocrite. QED.
Quote:
Yanno, at one time I started a thread dedicated to a point-by-point comparison of Syria versus the Ukraine... You stayed away like it was the plague.
Siggy... how do I say this. I ignore you a lot. I scroll past you, or I just let your bullshit go. But if you insist on being smacked down on any particular point by all means bring it up now.
Quote:
Russia started this war .... KPO
Cites and links for this bullshit, please?- SIGNY
That's a whole 31-page thread of its own. Would you like me to summarise the arguments?
Quote:Quote:Yep, that's you. Incessantly repeating propaganda.
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
This is like the 10th time that you've repeated the same point about me and my signature. You're not very self aware are you?
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:Clearly, you have never read a pro-Russian website, or you wouldn't call this "pro-Russian". So ... cites and links, please. I've read both from time to time, I don't detect a "pro-Russian" bias. They are simply far left-wing sites. Real pro-Russian content can be found at RT, Sputnik, or Russia Insider.
"Off-Guardian" - one of your pro-Russia blogs
Pro-Russian? Really? Cites and links, please. SIGNY
Lol, did you think that this was a credible source just because it does its best to look like the Guardian? How did I know straight away that this was another one of your bullshit pro-Russia blogs? Let me teach you something about critical reading Siggy.
My first clue was that the article originally comes from Global Research, another one of your other pro-Russian blogs.
Quote:Because OF COURSE, being CALLED a Putin-bot makes one so. By YOUR logic, simple libel is proof enough.
My second clue was that it uses the Russian spelling for Donbas, not the Ukrainian spelling. My third clue, I noticed from skim reading, was that the source for its headline claim of 3600 killed by Kiev is the separatist "government" - which is, frankly, hilarious. And my fourth clue was that the 'About' section of the website admits that the site was set up by people who met on the comment section of the Guardian website, disgruntled at the content there and tired of being called 'Putinbots'
Yanno, KRAPO, if I knew who you were, I'd sue you, GSTRING, and THUGR for the multitude of lies you've told about me and others. So, how about it? Wanna take off that mask of anonymity and face me in court, where the truth will come out? Or are you a fucking coward who isn't at all interested in the truth, but who simply seeks to malign and defame with lies? PM me, and we can arrange for a nice court date for you at your earliest convenience.
Now, aside from your constant lies and defamation ... the article is very open about where they got their facts from. It ALSO cites a UN report, and OSCE reports, and other official and non-official reports, facts which you decided to withhold because they just don't support your twisted picture.
Quote:Typical of YOU to lie about what you found.
Typical of you to dismiss facts by name-calling a source.- SIGNY
Typical of YOU not to check your own source for authenticity and reliability.- KRAPO
Quote:It wasn't an "invasion". I can't imagine who called it that, except in some fervid dream of glory.
Sure, you can "always" make the argument (if you want to stretch the definition terribly) but then you'd have to say that the USA "invaded" Syria. - SIGNY
Or that the USA invaded Cuba during the Bay of Pigs Invasion - oh wait...- KRAPO
Quote:TOTAL number killed. Which side is the most egregious based on the TOTAL number killed?
"The most egregious" would be the greatest in number. Since all YOU did was post videos- no tally - I decided to do the same. - SIGNY
I clearly posted tallies for each of my examples. 11 killed from the shelling of the checkpoint, 29 killed from the shelling of the city of Mariupol, and nearly 300 killed from the shootdown of MH17. All of these have been investigated and blame pointed at the separatists. We've been through this in the Russia Invades Ukraine thread and you haven't been able to establish a single incident matching these where it was the Ukrainian military responsible for killing the civilians.- KRAPO
Quote:I said the the Russian little green men were remarkable restrained. Also, they appeared to be well-accepted by the population, even posing for pictures with l
I doubt you will find me "cheerleading" Russia in Ukraine. That's a typical lie of yours. - SIGNY
Nope, you cheerlead Russia in Crimea all the time, for one.- KRAPO
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Clearly, you have never read a pro-Russian website, or you wouldn't call this "pro-Russian". So ... cites and links, please. I've read both from time to time, I don't detect a "pro-Russian" bias.
Hilarious
If you want discussion of your blog sources I'll give it to you, but it deserves a thread of its own. Watch this space.Quote:
Because OF COURSE, being CALLED a Putin-bot makes one so. By YOUR logic, simple libel is proof enough.
Do you not see how a site set up by a few internet randoms to spread their opinions has no inherent authority or credibility? For all we know, you and Kiki could have founded that site just so that you could cite yourself and give your own opinions (the illusion of) some credibility. That's probably what the founders of that site are doing.
Quote:
Yanno, KRAPO, if I knew who you were, I'd sue you, GSTRING, and THUGR for the multitude of lies you've told about me and others. So, how about it? Wanna take off that mask of anonymity and face me in court, where the truth will come out? Or are you a fucking coward who isn't at all interested in the truth, but who simply seeks to malign and defame with lies? PM me, and we can arrange for a nice court date for you at your earliest convenience.
Attractive as the offer is, to give you my personal info so you can sue me, I think I'll pass
Quote:
Now, aside from your constant lies and defamation ... the article is very open about where they got their facts from. It ALSO cites a UN report, and OSCE reports, and other official and non-official reports, facts which you decided to withhold because they just don't support your twisted picture.
I treat that article with about the same respect that I treat yours and kiki's posts. I didn't read much of it. If you have UN reports and OSCE reports that back up your argument, why the fuck wouldn't you just cite those reports directly instead of this garbage website?? The answer is obvious: you don't have them.
Quote:Quote:It wasn't an "invasion". I can't imagine who called it that, except in some fervid dream of glory.
Or that the USA invaded Cuba during the Bay of Pigs Invasion - oh wait...- KRAPO
And yet, that's what it's commonly called.
Quote:
TOTAL number killed. Which side is the most egregious based on the TOTAL number killed?
I don't claim to have those figures, and your claims to have them have been shown to be worthless (citing the separatists, LOL). What do we have? We have UN reports of 10,000+ killed across the war, military and civilian - but no breakdown as to who has done the killing and where. So all we have is guesswork, and reason. The separatists have been responsible for the most egregious examples of killing civilians (by far) - but you want us to accept that the Ukrainian military has killed more overall, based on... what exactly?
Quote:
I said the the Russian little green men were remarkable restrained. Also, they appeared to be well-accepted by the population, even posing for pictures with little kids. I applaud that kind of behavior- don't you?
This is a weird tangent.
Quote:
Was that not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Is Russia's pouring of weapons and fighters into Ukraine not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Have you ever condemned it?- KPO
No, I have not condemned it.
Do you not see how that makes you a hypocrite?
Quote:
But lack of condemnation doesn't mean I was "cheerleading" it, either.
This is a separate point, whether or not you cheerlead Russia's actions in Ukraine. Without a doubt it is true as regards Crimea; your language regarding Russia's actions there is always celebratory - see your words above, for example.
Quote:
If you can manage to keep the USA fNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I think after this post I'm going to put you on "ignore". That's what YOU do, right?
Clearly, you have never read a pro-Russian website, or you wouldn't call this "pro-Russian". So ... cites and links, please. I've read both from time to time, I don't detect a "pro-Russian" bias. - SIGNY
Hilarious
Quote:Oh, do you mean an internet random like you? Since I know the truth about myself, and I know that you libel people simply to troll. I already know that you have no credibility at all. So, why should I take anything you post about anyone else seriously? You formed your opinion of Off-Guardian without even reading the article. So all you post is bullshit and lies anyway.
Because OF COURSE, being CALLED a Putin-bot makes one so. By YOUR logic, simple libel is proof enough. -
Do you not see how a site set up by a few internet randoms to spread their opinions has no inherent authority or credibility? - KRAPO
Quote:Of course. You're a coward and even YOU don't believe what you say is the truth.
Yanno, KRAPO, if I knew who you were, I'd sue you, GSTRING, and THUGR for the multitude of lies you've told about me and others. So, how about it? Wanna take off that mask of anonymity and face me in court, where the truth will come out? Or are you a fucking coward who isn't at all interested in the truth, but who simply seeks to malign and defame with lies? PM me, and we can arrange for a nice court date for you at your earliest convenience. - SIGNY
Attractive as the offer is, to give you my personal info so you can sue me, I think I'll pass
Quote:And since you didn't read much of it, you of course know what it says. Clearly, more bullshit opinion from you.
Now, aside from your constant lies and defamation ... the article is very open about where they got their facts from. It ALSO cites a UN report, and OSCE reports, and other official and non-official reports, facts which you decided to withhold because they just don't support your twisted picture.- SIGNY
I treat that article with about the same respect that I treat yours and kiki's posts. I didn't read much of it.- KRAPO
Quote:Actually, I DID have them. I found them individually before I found this article. I posted that particular article simply because it had ALL of the links that I had found, in one convenient location. If you had read the article BEFORE dismissing it, you would have seen the links
If you have UN reports and OSCE reports that back up your argument, why the fuck wouldn't you just cite those reports directly instead of this garbage website?? The answer is obvious: you don't have them.- KRAPO
But once again, you bloviate and libel based on ...nothing at all.
Quote:Bearcats aren't either bears nor cats. Starfish aren't fish. "All natural foods" are highly processed. I can't help that common names are misleading. This happens especially in politics.
Or that the USA invaded Cuba during the Bay of Pigs Invasion - oh wait...- KRAPO-
It wasn't an "invasion". I can't imagine who called it that, except in some fervid dream of glory. - SIGNY
And yet, that's what it's commonly called.- KRAPO
Quote:
TOTAL number killed. Which side is the most egregious based on the TOTAL number killed?- SIGNY
I don't claim to have those figures, and your claims to have them have been shown to be worthless (citing the separatists, LOL). What do we have? We have UN reports of 10,000+ killed across the war, military and civilian - but no breakdown as to who has done the killing and where. So all we have is guesswork, and reason. The separatists have been responsible for the most egregious examples of killing civilians (by far)NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
F*cksake, that's a new low even for you. This is RWED - everyone who posts here knows it's history for *raw* frankness and that it's not for people with thin skins. If you don't find it to your liking, then LEAVE! - GSTRING
It's not "frankness" that's the problem here, GSTRING, it's dishonesty.
Do you know what they say about libel, slander, and defamation in general? Truth is the ultimate defense. If you thought that you had even a shred of truth on your side, your butt wouldn't pucker with the thought of actual ... yanno... consequences for your gross lies.
I have never lied about you. I wish you could say the same.
And if I ever DO find out who you are, you can bet that I'm coming after you. So you might want to start scrubbing your posts of everything that you think might be defamatory.
Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:You, yourself, made it clear that YOU KNOW that's what I meant. Here, like this ...
Coming after me how? Let's get this in writing.
Fwiw, I seriously doubt any court would side with someone (you) who has wished a number of us dead, or threatened us with law suits in an open forum.
Btw - a copy of your threats have been sent to Haken. Threatening fellow members is way over the line.
Quote:So try to make the case that it was anything else. I dare you.
or threatened us with law suits in an open forum.-
Yes "coming after you" IN COURT. In context, it's quite clear what I meant, and you would have a hard time getting anyone to side with YOU about your whinging.
Clearly, you think that anonymity gives you the right to lie and defame. So far, the only consequences that you've had to think about are being placed in Troll Country, and being called troll.
So, you might want to do a little reading up on libel. Here, this will get you started ...
Quote:
Libel vs. Slander: Different Types of Defamation
Libel and slander are types of defamatory statements. Libel is a written defamatory statement, and slander is a spoken or oral defamatory statement. In this article, we'll look at where you might find a defamatory statement, provide some different examples of libel and slander, and more. (For an overview of this area of law, check out Defamation Law Made Simple.)
Where Might You Find Potentially Defamatory Statements?
Before we look at a few examples of potentially defamatory statements, let’s first think about places where you could see such statements. These days, the most common places for making possibly libelous (written) statements are:
letters to the editor of local newspapers
public comments on media (i.e., newspaper or magazine) web sites
blog posts
comments to blog posts, and
internet chat rooms or listservers.
In reality, you won’t see too many potentially libelous comments in published written letters to the editor because editors are generally very careful in screening out such letters. It is on the internet where people can get into trouble with libel. While some web sites screen posts for inflammatory or illegal content, the screening systems are not geared to examine every post for libelous content.
Remember that slander is an oral defamatory statement, so those statements can be made anywhere and to anyone -- as long as it's to a third party, meaning someone other than the person who is allegedly being defamed. If you tell your best friend something defamatory about person X, person X could sue you for defamation if he/she could prove that he/she was damaged as a result of your statement.
Examples of Libel and Slander
Let’s look at some examples of what might be libel. Let’s first say that you posted a comment on someone’s blog saying that the blog’s author had been given a dishonorable discharge from the Army. That certainly sounds like a defamatory statement if it is false. Remember that truth is an absolute defense to libel and slander.
But, what if the blog’s author is a well known radical anti-war and anti-government activist who doesn’t care if people think that he/she was dishonorably discharged from the Army even if it wasn’t true? In that case, it is possible that his/her community simply wouldn’t care, and the posting might not be considered defamatory.
Another example might be saying or writing that someone acted unethically or dishonestly, even if the person’s conduct did not constitute a crime. Let’s say that you write a comment to a magazine article on the magazine’s website falsely accusing the article’s author of paying his/her interview subjects for an interview. Most reputable journalists don’t pay their subjects for interviews. It is not a crime to pay a subject for an interview, but it is generally considered unethical. Since the statement was false, it is very likely libelous.
Let’s look at an example of how a statement that doesn’tNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
That's name-calling, not libel.
Now, calling me a Russian troll IS libel.
Here's why: Libel is accusing someone of something illegal or unethical.
So, is being a "human pile of excrement" illegal? Unethical? Immoral? Even possible?
So, shall I start on a comparative list?
Have a nice life.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
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I just wanted to make sure this didn't get lost in all of GSTRING's public squirming, before I get back to the topic at-hand.
****
Quote:I think after this post I'm going to put you on "ignore". That's what YOU do, right?
Clearly, you have never read a pro-Russian website, or you wouldn't call this "pro-Russian". So ... cites and links, please. I've read both from time to time, I don't detect a "pro-Russian" bias. - SIGNY
Hilarious
Quote:Oh, do you mean an internet random like you? Since I know the truth about myself, and I know that you libel people simply to troll. I already know that you have no credibility at all. So, why should I take anything you post about anyone else seriously? You formed your opinion of Off-Guardian without even reading the article. So all you post is bullshit and lies anyway.
Because OF COURSE, being CALLED a Putin-bot makes one so. By YOUR logic, simple libel is proof enough. -
Do you not see how a site set up by a few internet randoms to spread their opinions has no inherent authority or credibility? - KRAPO
Quote:Of course. You're a coward and even YOU don't believe what you say is the truth.
Yanno, KRAPO, if I knew who you were, I'd sue you, GSTRING, and THUGR for the multitude of lies you've told about me and others. So, how about it? Wanna take off that mask of anonymity and face me in court, where the truth will come out? Or are you a fucking coward who isn't at all interested in the truth, but who simply seeks to malign and defame with lies? PM me, and we can arrange for a nice court date for you at your earliest convenience. - SIGNY
Attractive as the offer is, to give you my personal info so you can sue me, I think I'll pass
Quote:And since you didn't read much of it, you of course know what it says. Clearly, more bullshit opinion from you.
Now, aside from your constant lies and defamation ... the article is very open about where they got their facts from. It ALSO cites a UN report, and OSCE reports, and other official and non-official reports, facts which you decided to withhold because they just don't support your twisted picture.- SIGNY
I treat that article with about the same respect that I treat yours and kiki's posts. I didn't read much of it.- KRAPO
Quote:Actually, I DID have them. I found them individually before I found this article. I posted that particular article simply because it had ALL of the links that I had found, in one convenient location. If you had read the article BEFORE dismissing it, you would have seen the links
If you have UN reports and OSCE reports that back up your argument, why the fuck wouldn't you just cite those reports directly instead of this garbage website?? The answer is obvious: you don't have them.- KRAPO
But once again, you bloviate and libel based on ...nothing at all.
Quote:Bearcats aren't either bears nor cats. Starfish aren't fish. "All natural foods" are highly processed. I can't help that common names are misleading. This happens especially in politics.
Or that the USA invaded Cuba during the Bay of Pigs Invasion - oh wait...- KRAPO-
It wasn't an "invasion". I can't imagine who called it that, except in some fervid dream of glory. - SIGNY
And yet, that's what it's commonly called.- KRAPO
Quote:
TOTAL number killed. Which side is the most egregious based on the TOTAL number killed?- SIGNY
I don't claim to have those figures, and your claims to have them have been shown to be worthless (citing the separatists, LOL). What do we have? We have UN reports of 10,000+ killed across the war, military and civilian - but no breakdown as to who has done the killing and wNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Things are moving fast in Deir Ezzor ...
Quote:
Overview Of Battle For Deir Ezzor On September 14, 2017 (Evening Update)
On September 14, the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) and its allies fully secured the strategic Baghiliyah area northwest of Deir Ezzor city after capturing the missiles base, the Hajjanah regiment, the radio transmitter station, the al-Jazeera university, the Saiqa Camp and the arms depots around Baghiliyah, according to the Hezbollah media wing in Syria.
Then government forces developed momentum in the direction of Ayyash where they engaged ISIS in an intense fighting using a superiority in the fire power.
The Hezbollah media wing also announced that government troops captured the Nishan oil field, the Nishan gas station and the water pumping station east of Thurdah mount number 3. With this advance Thurdah mountains and the area west of Deir Ezzor Airport was secured and the SAA establish a full control over it.
The SAA also advanced southeast of Deir Ezzor city and captured the Dhamn base and al-Kurum hill. After the latest advance in the southwestern Dier Ezzor countryside, the SAA is now only 35km away from al-Mayadeen city, one of the biggest ISIS strongholds in the Euphrates River Valley.
The SAA could try to cross the Euphrates River, and then eliminate ISIS pocket in the northwestern Deir Ezzor countryside before launching the final attack on ISIS in al-Mayadin and al-Bukamal cities. The oil fields located on the eastern bank of Euphrates also attract attention of the Syrian military.
Meanwhile, the Ministry of Defense of Russia released videos of the cruise missile strike on headquarters and ammo depots of ISIS near al-Mayadin city.
https://southfront.org/overview-of-battle-for-deir-ezzor-on-september-
14-2017-evening-update/
Also for streaming updates see https://syria.liveuamap.com/
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I think after this post I'm going to put you on "ignore". That's what YOU do, right?
Absolutely, when I want to. Other times I tear your arguments into tiny pieces. I'm unpredictable. But do you want me to discuss your pro-Russian blogs, or not?
Quote:
You formed your opinion of Off-Guardian without even reading the article.
No, I formed my opinion by reading the first few lines, and the website's 'about' page.
Quote:Quote:Actually, I DID have them. I found them individually before I found this article. I posted that particular article simply because it had ALL of the links that I had found, in one convenient location.
If you have UN reports and OSCE reports that back up your argument, why the fuck wouldn't you just cite those reports directly instead of this garbage website?? The answer is obvious: you don't have them.- KPO
Hahahahahahahaha! LIE. I went back and checked the article and while it does mention the UN and the OSCE, neither body is cited to back up the headline claim about Kiev's killing of 3600 civilians.
Quote:Quote:The fact that the separatists have told us so
So all we have is guesswork, and reason. The separatists have been responsible for the most egregious examples of killing civilians (by far) - but you want us to accept that the Ukrainian military has killed more overall, based on... what exactly?- KPO
I rest my case.
Quote:Quote:No, I don't.
Was that not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Is Russia's pouring of weapons and fighters into Ukraine not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Have you ever condemned it?- KPO
No, I have not condemned it.- SIGNY
Do you not see how that makes you a hypocrite?- KRAPO
When I think about people doing bad or good in the world, the FIRST person I check is myself. How am I doing? THEN I think about those institutions over which I have at least some theoretical control ... my city, my state, my nation. Then our allies and partners. Why the hell should I hyper-focus ... like you and GSTRING and THUGR and DULLBADGUY ... over some faraway nation over which I have no authority and no responsibility?
You're saying you don't criticise Russia because you don't live there? Hypothetical: say you moved to Russia. Worked there, paid your taxes there. Would you criticise Russia then for its violation of Ukrainian sovereignty?
Quote:Quote:No, since you don't read my posts, why should I waste my time on it?
I tell you what, you give me your theory of how the war started, to compare with mine, and then we can examine the evidence. Deal?- KPO
Ok, if you change your mind, the deal is still there.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:Lie.
Other times I tear your arguments into tiny pieces.
Quote:You mean, "yes", I formed an opinion without reading the article. Lie.
You formed your opinion of Off-Guardian without even reading the article.
No, I formed my opinion by reading the first few lines, and the website's 'about' page.- KRAPO
Quote:
If you have UN reports and OSCE reports that back up your argument, why the fuck wouldn't you just cite those reports directly instead of this garbage website?? The answer is obvious: you don't have them.- KPO
Actually, I DID have them. I found them individually before I found this article. I posted that particular article simply because it had ALL of the links that I had found, in one convenient location.
Hahahahahahahaha! LIE. I went back and checked the article and while it does mention the UN and the OSCE, neither body is cited to back up the headline claim ...
I didn't say that their links backed up their headline, I said it contained all of the link that I could find by independent search. THOSE LINKS allow you to judge the rest of the material in context. So: HAHAHA. LIE.
Quote:By dismissing the evidence of - in reality- the ONLY PEOPLE who might provide you .... and the UN ... with a tally of those killed.
So all we have is guesswork, and reason. The separatists have been responsible for the most egregious examples of killing civilians (by far) - but you want us to accept that the Ukrainian military has killed more overall, based on... what exactly?- KPO
The fact that the separatists have told us so
I rest my case.-
Quote:If I thought that it was a bad thing, I would. I haven't come to a decision about it because I haven't resolved my thoughts on the matter. Since it's NMP (not my problem) I don't feel compelled to put much thought into it.
Was that not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Is Russia's pouring of weapons and fighters into Ukraine not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Have you ever condemned it?- KPO
No, I have not condemned it.- SIGNY
Do you not see how that makes you a hypocrite?- KRAPO
No, I don't. When I think about people doing bad or good in the world, the FIRST person I check is myself. How am I doing? THEN I think about those institutions over which I have at least some theoretical control ... my city, my state, my nation. Then our allies and partners. Why the hell should I hyper-focus ... like you and GSTRING and THUGR and DULLBADGUY ... over some faraway nation over which I have no authority and no responsibility?
You're saying you don't criticise Russia because you don't live there? Hypothetical: say you moved to Russia. Worked there, paid your taxes there. Would you criticise Russia then for its violation of Ukrainian sovereignty?- KRAPO
KRAPO, since you lie with every post ...
Quote:
I think after this post I'm going to put you on "ignore". That's what YOU do, right? - SIGNY
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Yes I call you a troll. And do you want to know what the defense for that is?
THE TRUTH.
Virtually every single post of yours (and I'm allowing for a few rare exceptions) contain an personal attack, and MOST of your posts (my guess is somewhere in the realm of 80%) are NOTHING BUT personal attack. Now, if that isn't being a troll, I don't know what is. I'd be happy to examine YOUR POSTINGS with a judge to see what he or she thinks. But even if a judge were to agree that you're a troll, that is not illegal and possibly not deemed to be unethical.
Although I certainly wonder if you're accessing this website using a company PC on company time. But that's between you and your employer.
Now as far as you calling me a "Russian" troll: You have no idea whether I'm Russian (or not) or whether I post at the behest of a foreign power (or not). In fact, thanks to my extremely long history of posts here, there is evidence in the opposite direction. But calling someone a "Russian" troll .... thanks to the hysteria that's been whipped up over (IMHO) nothing ... is tantamount to calling someone a "traitor". Now, that IS unethical and illegal, and your constant insinuations and accusations about it are therefore consequential and deceitful, and therefore libel.
Quote:IN COURT. And you know EXACTLY what I meant because you posted it yourself. I can imagine you going to a judge ... whaaa .... whaaa ...whaaa... someone said they would sue me if I kept posting defamatory things about them! I would love to be there to see it.
Threatening someone, "I'm coming for you" is highly unethical.- GSTRING
Yanno, you claimed to be in management somewhere. I sure hope they're not paying you much, because you don't seem to know much about anything.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Apparently, you stupid nitwit, you don't realize the problem with what you were doing. I was trying to tell you to forget name-calling and trolling ... it's usually irrelevant to the issue of "libel".
But when you constantly insinuate that someone might be a traitor, well, that IS relevant because that rumor can cause actual harm, and I can point to real-life instances where it has. It has to do with the "harm" that you have, or might have, caused. Calling someone a "human pile of excrement" just isn't as consequential as calling someone a traitor. It's the difference between hurting someone's reputation versus hurting someone's feelings.
And yes, I know KRAPO lives in Britain. Libel laws apply internationally, altho the cost of litigation prevents filings except in the most consequential cases. But if I knew where he was and filed a case against him, it would be heard in CALIFORNIA court. He'd have to fly over here to testify.
BTW, libel laws apply interstate more robustly than they apply internationally, so don't feel that just because you live in another state that you're protected.
I just like the way you keep twisting and squirming, trying to pretend that you have some sort of "right" to libel, and then trying to show how I "do the same thing", and then trying to demonstrate how what you were doing really wasn't.
Maybe it really wasn't, that would be for the courts to decide. But you're anonymous, remember? So stop shitting your pants.
BTW, if you want to know who pegs the libel-meter, it's THUGR.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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God what a fuckwit.
SO far, your entire "defense" consists of whine ...whine... whine ... but it's OK to be an online asshole! ... whine Clearly, you're a troll, you want to BE a troll, and anything getting in the way of you being a troll is "unfair". I guess you're just a born troll!
HINT: If the "names" were troll or fuckwit or GSTRING, nobody would give a shit. But if the names are embezzler, or traitor, or scam artist, or pedophile, that's different. I've already been investigated once as a result of online fuckwits like you, who in the throes of hysteria (along with a hysterical webmaster) turned my particulars over to the FBI, so don't tell me how "innocent" this all is.
Clearly, you know jackshit about real life, and how quickly things can go pear-shaped. So don't get TOO comfortable about being an online asshole because if ANYTHING comes of THUGR's or your constant libel, you'll see the inside of a courtroom. It'll be my special mission to make it so.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Germany Launches Probe After Pentagon's Syrian Arms Smuggling Story Goes Viral
The German government has opened an probe into an illegal Pentagon arms trafficking operation after a bombshell investigative report on the secret program went viral this week.
On Wednesday we reported on the continuing Pentagon arms pipeline to Syria which runs through Europe, the Balkans, and Caucuses, and which is based on a shady network of private contractors and altered US government paperwork. The Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP) and the Balkan Investigative Reporting Network (BIRN) produced conclusive evidence and internal memos proving that not only is the Pentagon currently involved in shipping up to $2.2 billion worth of (mostly old Soviet) weapons from private dealers to US-backed Syrian militants, but is actually manipulating paperwork such as end-user certificates in order to conceal the ultimate destinations of the weaponry (in this case Syria).
The new investigation also confirms Bulgarian journalist Dilyana Gaytandzhieva's prior findings, which exposed the role of Azerbaijan-operated Silk Way Airlines in the weapons airlifts. Though independent journalists and regional monitoring groups have been digging into the Pentagon arms shipments throughout the summer, mainstream European and American press were reluctant to cover the story, even as a steady flow of incontrovertible proof emerged online in the form of documents, photos, and videos of mysterious cargo planes being loaded with weapons. Over the past two weeks WikiLeaks has also highlighted the emerging details of a developing story which saw at least one journalist come under scrutiny by European security officials.
Public records reveal that the Pentagon is shipping billions of dollars of arms to Syrian insurgents https://t.co/8idPs57GnI pic.twitter.com/2qQDLzymZk — WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) September 13, 2017
After a week of the story picking up momentum, it appears we may finally be seeing the beginnings of public and governmental investigations forming as European governments perhaps reluctantly take stock of Pentagon arms pipelines in their territories now coming under public attention and outrage. As Stripes reports, Germany announced a new legal inquiry early Friday:
The German prosecutor’s office in Kaiserslautern said Friday it is looking into a report that the Pentagon used Ramstein Air Base to transport weapons covertly to rebel fighters in Syria — an allegation, that if true, might have broken German law.
...The weapons transfer through Ramstein would have required permission from the German government, the report stated.
Officials with Germany’s Economic Affairs Ministry told Stars and Stripes that the ministry did not give the U.S. military permission to transport weapons to Syria through the country. They denied having any knowledge of such activities.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-15/germany-launches-probe-after-
pentagons-syrian-arms-smuggling-story-goes-viral
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Quote:Thanks for admitting that you do that. Now, normally I'd say the first step to fixing your problem is admitting you have one ... but then, you're a born troll. It's not what you do, it's who you are. And the only way for you to stop trolling is to stop being.
Originally posted by GEEBERS:
you got mad when I called you names on a forum
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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The "problem" in the other forum is that I made a series of accurate predictions, the last one that I accidentally predicted the anthrax letters, and that scared the crap out of the midwest housewives that I was dealing with. It wasn't that I was nasty, it just that I was ACCURATE, which was very unpopular.
I have to say GSTRING, being accurate isn't a problem you'll ever have to deal with! You couldn't "discuss an issue" in a discussion forum to save your life!
But you DO insist on your "right" to be an online asshole, don't you? I think KIKI is right: Being a troll isn't what you do, it's who you are. The dark tetrad, combined with a low IQ.
I sure hope that you're not on a position of trust - a minister, a counselor, or a caregiver of any sort, because being a vicious, committed, and self-identified online troll would sure put a dent in your career, as well as putting a dent in the people that come in contact with you. But my impression is that you've got a nice comfortable niche somewhere (daddy's company?) which leaves you free to to be the sociopath that you are. And I'll bet that your sociopathy just shines through in all the walks of your life!
At least now you can stop wondering why you don't have any friends or a significant other. 
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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So, just to be clear Sig, you don't want to bring up whatever it was from the Syria/Ukraine thread that I supposedly "avoided like the plague"?
And you can't say whether Russia should be criticised for its violation of Ukrainian sovereignty because you "haven't put much thought into it"? Do you expect us to believe that? When you spent 31 pages in the Russia Invades Ukraine thread defending Russia?
Why don't you go away and get some principles straight, if you can, and then come back and apply them consistently. And ditch the Russian propaganda - it makes a fool out of everyone who consumes it.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Hey there asshole!
Haven't you figured out by now that you were criticized BECAUSE YOU HAD NO EVIDENCE - and that calling you a liar and a propagandist is NOT the same as defending Russia?
Are you really that stupid? Or are you that dishonest? Your pick.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Haven't you figured out by now that you were criticized BECAUSE YOU HAD NO EVIDENCE - and that calling you a liar and a propagandist is NOT the same as defending Russia?
'No evidence' that the separatists shot down MH17 and that Putin annexed Crimea with his little green men? Those claims of yours and Siggy's look great in hindsight
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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KRAPO, since you lie with every post (including the last one) just be prepared to be ignored for the foreseeable future.
Also, you're way the fuck off-topic.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
There is 'No evidence' that the separatists shot down MH17 and that Putin invaded Ukraine, as I kept insisting.
Because the FINAL MH17 REPORT which assigned blame based on EVIDENCE wasn't released, and, well, Russia didn't 'invade' Ukraine.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:
SDF Releases Statement Accusing Syrian, Russian Warplanes Of Airstrikes Against US-backed Fores Near Deir Ezzor
https://southfront.org/sdf-releases-statement-accusing-syrian-russian-
warplanes-of-airstrikes-against-us-backed-fores-near-deir-ezzor/
Quote:
US-led Coalition Troops Were Alongside SDF Units When Russian Forces Struck “Coalition Partner Forces”
https://southfront.org/us-led-coalition-troops-were-alongside-sdf-unit
s-when-russian-forces-struck-coalition-partner-forces/
Syrian forces and their allies bombed armed fighters within Syrian borders. Oh gosh. How awful.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:
I'll go ahead and tell myself whatever I have to to justify my hate and protect my fragile ego.
And every personal attack I post instead of a topical response lets everyone know - I'm a troll.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:Yes, you maroon. Because in the minds of these housewives, the only way that I could have predicted the anthrax letters was if I sent them myself. They really thought ... I swear to god, hand on a stack of Bibles ... that I had manufactured them.
*snort* You were vilified for being too right???- GSTRING
But that's what rampant hysteria/ paranoia gets you: people seeing shit that isn't there. Yanno, kind of like when people saw WMD in Iraq. Or today, when people see "Putin" behind every Dem electoral defeat.
Quote:KIKI, I don't know how you manage, but these are always funny.
Originally posted by G:
I'll go ahead and tell myself whatever I have to to justify my hate and protect my fragile ego.
And every personal attack I post instead of a topical response lets everyone know - I'm a troll.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Will The US Bomb? First Images Of Syrian Army Crossing The Euphrates River In Deir Ezzor
A correspondent with Al-Masdar News based in Damascus has confirmed that the Syrian Amy has crossed the Euphrates which runs through Deir Ezzor on Monday. The river forms a natural demarcation line separating Syrian government forces and their allies from the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF):
DAMACUS, SYRIA (4:00 P.M.) – The Syrian Army was capable today of crossing the Euphrates River after fully recapturing Sakr Island located to the north of Deir Ezzor Airbase.
Heavy Russian and Syrian airstrikes have pushed ISIS militants away from the eastern bank, paving the way for the government troops to set foot in the eastern bank for the first time in years.
With crossing the river, the government forces are inching closer to re-take the remaining territories under ISIS control. However, this will also put the Syrian forces face to face with the US-backed Kurdish forces; which launched its own offensive against the Islamic State in Deir Ezzor.
Other Middle East monitoring groups as well as regional correspondents have also confirmed the breaking news which could lead to a fresh outbreak of direct hostilities between the US-SDF alliance and Syria-Russia alliance:
SOHR says Syria army in Deir Ezzor has crossed Euphrates. Waterway serves as informal demarcation line between US & Syria/Iran-backed force. — Louisa Loveluck (@leloveluck) September 18, 2017
We noted over the weekend that as Russian and Iran-backed Syrian troops are moving in from the west, and with US-backed SDF forces operating mostly on the east side, the two factions have mostly stayed out of each other’s way in their "fight against ISIS" with the Euphrates acting as a dividing line. It now appears that dividing line has been breached by the Syrian Army - as Russian media is now keen to show the world (see screen shot of a Russian broadcast from location today).
On Saturday, a senior aide to President Bashar al-Assad said the government would fight any force, including the U.S.-backed militias, to recapture the entire country. ”I‘m not saying this will happen tomorrow ... but this is the strategic intent,” Bouthaina Shaaban said in a TV interview according to Reuters.ronically, The U.S.-led coalition said last week that the SDF did not plan to enter Deir Ezzor city, where Syrian troops recently broke an Islamic State siege that had lasted three years. Just a few days later, however, they appeared to have changed their mind.
Meanwhile, seeking to maintain the offensive momentum, a pro-Damascus military alliance launched attacks on Saturday from the southern corner of Deir Ezzor province to drive Islamic State from the Iraqi border. The last local vestige of the Islamic State is also coming under attack by U.S.-backed Iraqi government forces just over the border from Syria’s Deir Ezzor inside Iraq.
With the fate of Deir Ezzor - and much of the oil in the region - set to be sealed in the coming days, the Syrian war which has gradually disappeared from both the front pages and the public consciousness is now making a strong comeback in world headlines, especially as Syria/Russia/Iran seems to now be gaining full control of this key regional outpost.
Damascus would give up on Syrian oil field to US proxies for what reason and why? Wishful thinking. https://t.co/XmyHqPMiy2 — Elijah J. Magnier (@ejmalrai) September 18, 2017
The airspace over Deir Ezzor is potentially growing even more dangerous as there have long been rumors that the US coalition previously declared a de facto no fly zone (NFZ) over the north/eastern side of the Euphrates. In the meantime, Syrian and Russian air operations in the area will only increase with Syrian army advances.
According to Reuters over the weekend U.S.-backed militias, which have included various and assorted Al-Qaeda offshots, spinoffs andNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
deconflicting - fantastic!
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Because the FINAL MH17 REPORT which assigned blame based on EVIDENCE wasn't released,
Did you miss the first of the two official reports that identified where the missile was fired from (separatist territory)?
As for the final report, which you keep referring to, exactly what hope are you holding out that Russia and the separatists won't be blamed?
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Because the FINAL MH17 REPORT which assigned blame based on EVIDENCE wasn't released, - KIK
Did you miss the first of the two official reports that identified where the missile was fired from (separatist territory)?
As for the final report, which you keep referring to, exactly what hope are you holding out that Russia and the separatists won't be blamed?
In order to demonstrate who was at fault, the chain of command ... with specific people identified ... has to be established. It's one thing to say Russia did it; it's another to identify WHICH Russian gave the order, if one did.
Quote:You would think that by now you would stop posting your own modus operandi on the board for all to see.
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."= KRAPO
BTW, KRAPO, where IS that "Russian invasion" of Ukraine that I hear so much about? Those command posts? Those military emplacements? Those occupying forces, holding the restive population at bay?
CRIMEA TODAY
(That's the Russian flag btw)
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
In order to demonstrate who was at fault, the chain of command ... with specific people identified ... has to be established.
We'll see how far they get with identifying specific individuals. But this was a Russian weapon fired from separatist/Russian controlled territory - either way this is an illegal Russian action that leads back to Putin.
Quote:
BTW, KPO, where IS that "Russian invasion" of Ukraine that I hear so much about?
Russia's war in Ukraine is still grinding on (well done for asking. You don't ask, you don't learn), a not-quite-frozen frozen conflict that has weekly civilian/military casualties .
Last November the ICC (International Criminal Court) ruled that Russia is waging war in Ukraine and that Crimea is in a state of ongoing occupation by Russia. This led to Russia quitting the ICC (its war crimes in Syria may also have had something to do with it) - https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/17/world/europe/russia-withdraws-from-
international-criminal-court-calling-it-one-sided.html?_r=0
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:That is a legal leap that the relevant lawyers refuse to make. That BUK missile? Old, no longer in use by Russia. Maybe it was scavenged from a Ukrainian arms depot. Maybe it was fired by people on the ground, without an order from the top. The investigators are diligently pursuing who was there; that is the tack that they're taking.
In order to demonstrate who was at fault, the chain of command ... with specific people identified ... has to be established. - SIGNY
We'll see how far they get with identifying specific individuals. But this was a Russian weapon fired from separatist/Russian controlled territory - either way this is an illegal Russian action that leads back to Putin. - KRAPO
Quote:Oh, yes, the ICC. Would you believe that Russia is not under its jurisdiction, and wasn't even BEFORE it "quit" the ICC? (It never ratified membership since 2000). So for whatever reason that Russia left the ICC, it wasn't for fear of prosecution.
BTW, KPO, where IS that "Russian invasion" of Ukraine that I hear so much about?- SIGNY
Russia's war in Ukraine is still grinding on (well done for asking. You don't ask, you don't learn), a not-quite-frozen frozen conflict that has weekly civilian/military casualties .
Last November the ICC (International Criminal Court) ruled that Russia is waging war in Ukraine and that Crimea is in a state of ongoing occupation by Russia. This led to Russia quitting the ICC (its war crimes in Syria may also have had something to do with it) - https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/17/world/europe/russia-withdraws-from-
international-criminal-court-calling-it-one-sided.html?_r=0
I'd sure like to see the ICC bring the USA to trial. But the USA is not a member either
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:That is a legal leap that the relevant lawyers refuse to make.
But this was a Russian weapon fired from separatist/Russian controlled territory - either way this is an illegal Russian action that leads back to Putin. - KPO
Nope, sorry, they've already made it:
Quote:
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by a missile fired from a launcher brought into Ukraine from Russia and located in a village held by pro-Russian rebels, international prosecutors said on Wednesday.
...
Among the key findings were: the plane was hit by a Russian-made Buk-9M38 missile; the missile was fired from the rebel-held village of Pervomaysk in eastern Ukraine; and the launcher was transported into Ukraine from Russia.
“This Buk trailer came from the territory of the Russian Federation, and after the launch it was returned again to the territory of the Russian Federation,” said Wilbert Paulissen, chief investigator with the Dutch national police.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ukraine-crisis-mh17/malaysian-flight-
mh17-downed-by-russian-made-missile-prosecutors-idUKKCN11X2KW
Quote:
That BUK missile? Old, no longer in use by Russia.
The investigators say it came from Russia. Whether the Russian military currently uses it is irrelevant; all that matters is whether Russia still has stocks of it. They apparently do.
Quote:
Maybe it was scavenged from a Ukrainian arms depot.
Nope.
Quote:
Maybe it was fired by people on the ground, without an order from the top.
Look, no one is claiming that Putin gave the specific order to shoot down MH17. But the decision to send Russian troops and weapons into Ukraine to wage war against that country unquestionably came from him. The tragedy of MH17 - along with many other deaths in this war (I would argue all) - comes as a result of that undeniable fact.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Man you're just insisting on beating this thing to death, aren't you?
Quote:Then why haven't they released a report officially assigning responsibility? Why are they parsing intercepted communications to see if they can ID those involved? Why have they offered a sentence reduction to anyone who can come forward and help ID the actual people responsible? Jeez, KRAPO, I know that you're just hot to blame Russia for ... well... anything and everything .... but you just need to keep your shirt on until evidence is developed which will make the case.
But this was a Russian weapon fired from separatist/Russian controlled territory - either way this is an illegal Russian action that leads back to Putin. - KPO
That is a legal leap that the relevant lawyers refuse to make. - SIGNY
Nope, sorry, they've already made it:
Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by a missile fired from a launcher brought into Ukraine from Russia and located in a village held by pro-Russian rebels, international prosecutors said on Wednesday.- KPO
Quote:Yanno, the post that started this whole "Russian invasion" thing had to do with a column (or convoy) of supposedly Russian vehicles crossing over into Ukraine on an unguarded part of the border ... of which there were apparently quite a few. With pictures, even! Kiev then claimed to have "destroyed" the convoy with artillery, and Stoltenberg (NATO) backed up that claim. And yet there were no bodies, no prisoners, no burned-out vehicles, no eye (or ear) witnesses who heard or saw an artillery barrage that night, no satellite photos of pockmarked fields. No evidence whatsoever.
That BUK missile? Old, no longer in use by Russia.- SIGNY
The investigators say it came from Russia. Whether the Russian military currently uses it is irrelevant; all that matters is whether Russia still has stocks of it. They apparently do.- KPO
Maybe it was scavenged from a Ukrainian arms depot.- SIGNY
Nope.- KPO
Now, my personal opinion is that Kiev grabbed some old Soviet equipment - probably from its own armories - slapped Russian plates on them, secretly trundled them INTO Russia, then notified some dupe of a reporter to record this fake "invasion" as it made its way back into Ukraine.
My point was that very early on, the border was extremely porous. It's possible that equipment made its way out of Ukraine so that it could transit more safely and then back in again where it was to be used. Another possibility is that this piece of equipment came from the Voentorg ... Russian arms dealers. Then again, it may have officially come from an old Soviet armory, selected for its age to provide "plausible deniability". I don't think that the Russian intelligentsia is that stupid, but ... who knows? We don't know for sure; which is why I suppose the Commission is still trying to figure out WHO was responsible.
Quote:This all came about because the USA fostered a coup against a democratically-elected government, even with early (re)elections in the works.
Maybe it was fired by people on the ground, without an order from the top. - SIGNY
Look, no one is claiming that Putin gave the specific order to shoot down MH17. But the decision to send Russian troops and weapons into Ukraine to wage war against that country unquestionably came from him. The tragedy of MH17 - along with many other deaths in this war (I would argue all) - comes as a result of that undeniable fact.- KPO
Whoever it was that paid snipers to shoot into the Maidan is really the entity responsible. Up until then, the situation was retrievable, with Yanukovich backing down and doing everything he could to defuse the situation including- as I said- agreeing to early elections, despite the presence of hardcore neo-Nazi provocateurs embedded in the demonstrations.
I would bet you dollars to donuts it was CIA mercs that pushed events over the edge. But that is not proven, just as Putin's involvement isn&#
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Meanwhile, in ON TOPIC NEWS: The USA continues to try to and overthrow the Syrian government
Quote:
Russian Special Forces Repel a US-planned Attack In Syria, Denounce the USA and Issue a Stark Warning
Written by The Saker
Something rather unprecedented just happened in Syria: US backed “good terrorist” forces attempted a surprise attack against Syrian government forces stationed to the north and northeast of the city of Hama.
What makes this attack unique is that it took place inside a so-called “de-escalation zone” and that it appears that one of the key goals of the attack was to encircle in a pincer-movement and subsequently capture a platoon of Russian military police officers deployed to monitor and enforce the special status of this zone. The Russian military police forces, composed mainly of soldiers from the Caucasus region, fought against a much larger enemy force and had to call for assistance. For the first time, at least officially, Russian special operations forces were deployed to rescue and extract their comrades. At the same time, the Russians sent in a number of close air support aircraft who reportedly killed several hundred “good” terrorists and beat back the attack (Russian sources speak of the destruction of 850 fighters, 11 tanks, three infantry fighting vehicles, 46 armed pickup trucks, five mortars, 20 freighter trucks and 38 ammo supply points; you can see photos of the destroyed personnel and equipment here.
CAUTION https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/3693287.html)
What also makes this event unique is the official reaction of the Russians to this event.
Russian Special Forces Repel a US-planned Attack In Syria, Denounce the USA and Issue a Stark Warning
Head of the Main Operations Department at Russia’s General Staff Colonel General Sergei Rudskoi declared that:
Quote:
“Despite agreements signed in Astana on September 15, gunmen of Jabhat al-Nusra and joining them units that don’t want to comply with the cessation of hostilities terms, launched a large-scale offensive against positions of government troops north and northeast of Hama in Idlib de-escalation zone from 8 am on September 19 (…) According to available data, the offensive was initiated by American intelligence services to stop a successful advance of government troops east of Deir ez-Zor“.
Today, other Russian officials have added a not-so-veiled threat to this accusation. The Russian Defense Ministry’s spokesman, Major General Igor Konashenkov has declared that:Quote:
Russia unequivocally told the commanders of US forces in Al Udeid Airbase (Qatar) that it will not tolerate any shelling from the areas where the SDF are stationed (…) Fire from positions in regions [controlled by the SDF] will be suppressed by all means necessary.
This is unprecedented on many levels. First, the Russians clearly believe that this attempt to kill or capture a platoon of the Russian military police was planned by the United States. The fact that they are making this accusation officially shows the degree of irritation felt by the Russians about the duplicity of the Americans. Second, this is the first time, at least to my knowledge, that Russian Spetsnaz forces had to be sent in to rescue a surrounded Russian subunit. All Spetsnaz operators survived, but three of them were wounded in the operation (the Russians are not saying how badly).
The close air support by very low flying SU-25 aircraft was obviously coordinated by Spetsnaz forward air controllers and probably saved the day. In other words, this was a close call and things could have ended much more badly (just imagine what the Takfiri crazies would have done, on video, to any captured Russian serviceman!). Finally, a US-organized attack on what was supposed to be a “de-confliction” zone combined with an attempt to capture Russian soldiers raises the bar for American duplicity to a totally new level.
The big question now is “do the Russians mean it?” or are they just whining with real determination to hiNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
http://thesaker.is/russian-special-forces-repel-a-us-commanded-attack-
in-syria-denounce-the-usa-and-issue-a-stark-warning/
Yet another pro-Russian blog
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:And yet, you can't demonstrate that what he wrote is WRONG. (Just as you can't demonstrate that what I wrote is wrong.) So all you're doing is burying your head up your ass because the news conflicts with your biases.
http://thesaker.is/russian-special-forces-repel-a-us-commanded-attack-
in-syria-denounce-the-usa-and-issue-a-stark-warning/
Yet another pro-Russian blog
GOOD JOB!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Now, my personal opinion is that Kiev grabbed some old Soviet equipment - probably from its own armories - slapped Russian plates on them, secretly trundled them INTO Russia, then notified some dupe of a reporter to record this fake "invasion" as it made its way back into Ukraine.
Quote:
What is undeniable is that Neocon Vicki Nuland, of the USA State Department did everything in her power to "glue this thing" to "make it stick together"; spending $5 billion on the overthrow of a pro-Russian government in Ukraine.
Ok, now that's the jokes out of the way. Let's respond to the rest of your post.
Quote:
Kiev then claimed to have "destroyed" the convoy with artillery, and Stoltenberg (NATO) backed up that claim.
You keep making this claim, but I've never seen you back it up. Cite?
Quote:
Jeez, KPO, I know that you're just hot to blame Russia for ... well... anything and everything ...
Err, did you read what I just posted? The missile came from Russia and was fired from separatist territory, and then the launcher was sneaked back into Russia. The official investigators have ALREADY STATED THIS. At this point there is NOTHING you can say that can absolve Russia. So go ahead and say that this is off topic, or whatever. Because, I'll say it again:
THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN SAY THAT CAN ABSOLVE RUSSIA.
Quote:
My point was that very early on, the border was extremely porous. It's possible that equipment made its way out of Ukraine so that it could transit more safely and then back in again
These mental games you play where you come up with ridiculous scenarios where Russia is somehow not responsible - you realise you're insulting the memory of 298 innocent people, right? And mocking the grieving families, for whom the truth of how their loved ones died is sacred? For once, treat the truth as sacred.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:
What is undeniable is that Neocon Vicki Nuland, of the USA State Department did everything in her power to "glue this thing" to "make it stick together"; spending $5 billion on the overthrow of a pro-Russian government in Ukraine.-SIGNY
Ok, now that's the jokes out of the way. Let's respond to the rest of your post.- KRAPO
Not so fast, KRAPO.Victoria Nuland's Admits Washington Has Spent $5 Billion to "Subvert Ukraine" (7:42)
Two things some to mind:
1) AND WE GET ALL TWEAKED BECAUSE SOMEBODY IN RUSSIA PAID FOR $50,000 (or $100,000) in ADVERT IN 2016???
2) As you listen to the speech in its entirety, notice how Nuland makes this a case of Ukraine becoming "European", and how she harps on IMF-required "reforms" (i.e austerity).
Quote:Which part? That Poroshenko claims he destroyed the convoy? Or that the "invasion" story was backed up by the NATO Scy general (who was Ramussen at the time, not Stoltenberg.)
Kiev then claimed to have "destroyed" the convoy with artillery, and Stoltenberg (NATO) backed up that claim. - SIGNY
You keep making this claim, but I've never seen you back it up. Cite?- KRAPO
Poroshenko claims to have destroyed the convoy:
Quote:
Ukraine claims it has destroyed Russian military vehicles in the country's east, a day after a column was spotted moving across the border. Ukraine's president, Petro Poroshenko, told David Cameron by phone that his country's armed forces had destroyed part of an armed convoy that the Guardian saw moving through a gap in a border fence on Thursday night.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/15/ukraine-claims-destroyed
-russian-military-vehicles-crossed-border
Rasmussen backs the "invasion" story
Quote:http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28984241
Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said that "despite hollow denials", it was now clear that Russia had illegally crossed Ukraine's border.
And look! I brought British sites, just for you!
Quote:
Jeez, KPO, I know that you're just hot to blame Russia for ... well... anything and everything ...
Err, did you read what I just posted? The missile came from Russia and was fired from separatist territory, and then the launcher was sneaked back into Russia. The official investigators have ALREADY STATED THIS. At this point there is NOTHING you can say that can absolve Russia. So go ahead and say that this is off topic, or whatever. Because, I'll say it again:
THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN SAY THAT CAN ABSOLVE RUSSIA.
Since its so very clear cut, why no official report?
Clearly, KRAPO, you don't know what "evidence" is, or how it applies legally. When push comes to shove, you rely on emotion and faux outrage.
NOW THAT I'VE PROVEN YOU ENTIRELY WRONG- AGAIN- I'm putting you on "ignore" until you start posting like a grownup. And on-topic.
*****
SAMPLING OF KRAPO'S BULLSHIT IN THIS THREAD
Quote:As if Assad is supporting ISIS.
that they're actually bothering to fight ISIS. I wonder if this will affect Assad's oil & gas deals with ISIS?
Quote:Oh yes, the poor head-lopping terrorists got killed. And yet, mot a mention of USA killing as many as 40,000 people in Deir Ezzor and displacing almost 200,000. But when the SAA was liberating Aleppo, all you heard about nonstop from KRAPO was about Assad's "war crimes". Biased much?
This is what that suppression looks like: shelling of rebel-held towns. Just an example from today
Quote:Claims of 500 killed in Debaltsevo - no cites, no links. Does not attempt to tally who killed the most TOTAL civilians. Rejects tallies from a website that he libelously calls "pro-Russian", rejects tallies from the relevant authorities, rejects information from an article that
the worst incidents have been carried out by the separatists - KRAPO
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ISRAEL, still in government-destruction mode ...
Quote:Because, according to Netanyahu, Syria doesn't have the right to defend its own airspace??
Israel Strikes Damascus After Syrian Missile Defense Fires On Aircraft
For the third time in as many weeks Israel has reportedly bombed positions inside Syria. Syrian state media along with multiple regional outlets showed fires burning at a facility near the Damascus international airport in the early hours of Friday. Israeli newspaper Haaretz reports that like with previous attacks, Israel jets fired from over Lebanese airspace. But it appears the latest exchange was part of a tit-for-tat exchange of fire between Syria and Israel in a situation that continues to dangerously escalate.
Multiple reports are circulating that the Israeli attack was initiated after Syria's aerial defense missile system engaged and fired on an Israeli aircraft in the area. Video of what purports to show Syrian missiles firing on the aircraft circulated widely in Syrian social media and was picked up by Lebanese and Israeli news outlets. Early reports indicate that an Israeli drone was likely the target.Quote:
#Syrian air defense downing an #Israeli drone over #Syria tonight. pic.twitter.com/yWCKZSzrCR — Hamosh (@Hamosh84) September 22, 2017
It appears that Israel's attack came in response to Syria's engaging the unidentified aircraft
Quote:Israel + al Qaeda? Well, what the heck ... why the hell not? WE supply al Qaeda. And ISIS. SAUDI ARABIA supplies both, too. We're all
- though it's unclear if the target was hit. This latest incident is unique for the fact that Syria quickly publicized that its missile defense system engaged the Israeli target.
The Facebook page of a prominent Syrian pro-government militia reported in the early morning hours that, “an area near the Damascus international airport was attacked by a hostile missile." Israeli newspapers are claiming the site to be an ammunition storage depot.
The exchange of fire comes after a Tuesday incident wherein the Israel Defense Forces shot down what it identified as an Iranian-made drone which departed from Damascus and subsequently entered the demilitarized zone along the border on the Golan Heights. Israel's aerial defense command fired a Patriot missile and destroyed the drone.
Meanwhile, Israeli jets have been illegally operating in Lebanese airspace with increased intensity of late - even to the point of causing temporary moments of panic over southern Lebanon as low flying jets sometimes break the sound barrier.
Violation of Syrian airspace was more brazen in previous years of the war, but as we've explained previously it appears that Israel is carefully calculating it's strike positions over "neutral" Lebanese airspace so as not to force a Russian response by directly violating Syrian space.
Weeks ago senior Israeli officials were quoted as threatening to assassinate Syrian President Assad by bombing his palace in Damascus, while further adding that Israel will seek to derail the US-Russia brokered de-escalation deal reached in Astana, Kazakhstan earlier this summer. The Astana deal essentially put Russia in the driver's seat in Syria, which Israel sees as guaranteeing a permanent Iranian presence - something Prime Minister Netanyahu sees as intolerable.
Though rarely acknowledged in the media, Israel and Syria have been at open war since at least 2013, when Israel launched a massive missile attack against a Syrian defense technology facility in Jamraya outside of Damascus. Israel has also targeted Damascus International Airport on a number of occasions. During the summer, the head of Israel's air force acknowledged nearly one hundred IDF attacks on convoys inside Syria over the course of the past 5 years. And as a Wall Street Journal investigation confirmed, the Israeli army has been providing military aid to al-Qaeda linked rebels operating in Syria's south for years.
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At various times the Syrian-Russian side has come under mortar fire from SDF positions, even as Russia and the US are theoretically said to coordinate through a special military hotline. The SDF for its part claims it too has come under attack from the Syrian Army. The most significant event occurred just over a year ago when the US coalition launched a massive air attack on Syrian government troops in Deir Ezzor near the city's military airport at the very moment they were fighting ISIS. The US characterized it as a case of mistaken identity while Syria accused the US coalition of directly aiding ISIS by the attack. The end result was about 100 Syrian soldiers dead and over a hundred more wounded while ISIS terrorists were able to advance and entrench their positions.
Though US officials disclosed few elements of this week's unusual meeting, the US side did confirm Russia's threat of returning fire should Syrian soldiers come under attack. US coalition spokesman Colonel Ryan Dillon confirmed that, “They had a face-to-face discussion, laid down maps and graphics.” But the Russians publicly delivered further details outlining its message to the US military. Russian Major-General Igor Konashenkov said in a statement,“A representative of the U.S. military command in Al Udeid (the U.S. operations center in Qatar) was told in no uncertain terms that any attempts to open fire from areas where SDF fighters are located would be quickly shut down.” He added that, “Fire points in those areas will be immediately suppressed with all military means.” Russia has further openly accused the US of violating previously agreed to 'de-escalation' zones in Idlib (as part of Astana talks) using al-Qaeda proxies to engaged the Syrian Army in Idlib.
The US coalition hinted in its statements that future military-to-military talks could continue regarding coordination in Syria. Though Russian warnings sound alarmist, and though the situation is increasingly very dangerous for the prospect of escalation, the US side appears to be in a vulnerable enough position to listen. The fact that the meeting occurred in the first place and was publicly acknowledged by the Pentagon is hugely significant as a US ban on such direct military talks was put in place after the collapse in relations between the two nations following the outbreak of the Ukraine proxy war in 2014.
In reality some degree of US-Russian back channel communication and intelligence sharing probably existed long before the SDF made gains in Syria's east - this according to Seymour Hersh's 2016 investigation entitled, "Military to Military". Though (ironically) the CIA's push for regime change against Damascus was still operational and presumably in full gear at that time, the Pentagon's actions in Syria were always perhaps more humble regarding pursuit of regime change.
But what are current Pentagon plans for its SDF proxy?
It's no secret that the core component force of the SDF - the Kurdish YPG - has at times loosely cooperated with the Syrian government when the situation pragmatically served both sides. At the same time Damascus has over the past few years recognized the Kurds as a militarily effective buffer against both ISIS and other powerful jihadist groups like al-Nusra Front and Ahrar al-Sham. While many Russian and pro-Damascus analysts have accused the SDF of being a mere pawn of US imperialism meant to permanently Balkanize the region, this is only partially true - the truth is likely more nuanced.
No doubt, the US is laying plenty of concrete in the form of forward operating bases across Kurdish held areas of northern and eastern Syria (currently about a dozen or more). And no doubt the US is enabling the illegal seizure of oil fields formerly held by the Islamic State, but Kurdish and US interests are not necessarily one and the same. The Kurds know that the best they can hope for in a post-war Syria is a federated system which allows Kurdish areas a high degree of autonomy. They also know, as decades of
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Not so fast, KPO. Victoria Nuland Admits Washington Has Spent $5 Billion to "Subvert Ukraine" (7:42)
Haha, you're such a liar!
What she actually says is: "We've invested $5 billion in Ukraine to assist in these and other goals... (building democratic institutions - KPO)"
Such an obvious lie! Did you think I wouldn't check?? (In truth I already knew. You should know, dearest Siggy, that when I tackle you on a point it's usually because I already know the facts and am confident I'm right)
Quote:
Two things come to mind:
No. You've just got caught in a lie - why should anyone listen to what further points you have to make? Have you ever thought that if you have to lie to make your point - that maybe your whole point is wrong??
Quote:
2) As you listen to the speech in its entirety,
I'm LOL-ing at you typing this and hoping people don't.
Quote:
You keep making this claim, but I've never seen you back it up. Cite?- KPO
Which part? - SIGGY
It's quite clear what I'm asking for - I underlined it. Yet you still haven't provided it. I'll quote it again:
Quote:
Kiev then claimed to have "destroyed" the convoy with artillery, and Stoltenberg (NATO) backed up that claim.
Here you are saying that Kiev claimed to destroy the convoy, and that NATO backed up Kiev's claim. So where is the link that shows NATO talking about the convoy being destroyed? Wait a minute... do you think... NATO never said anything about the convoy being destroyed? Wait a minute... that would mean... you were completely wrong... again...
Quote:
Since it's so very clear cut, why no official report?
I'm not really sure what your point is. The investigators make clear in the article what they know already with certainty, and what they don't. As for why they released some of the results of the investigation before all of the results are ready, I guess because the grieving families have a right to know what happened to their loved ones?
Quote:
NOW THAT I'VE PROVEN YOU ENTIRELY WRONG- AGAIN
Just, lol.
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"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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SDF Shelled Government Troops Crossing Euphrates. 9 Soldiers Killed – Unconfirmed
On Friday, the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces shelled a group of Syrian Arab Army (SAA) soldiers while it was crossing the Euphrates River near Deir Ezzor city, according to reports circulating online.
The shelling allegedly resulted in killing of 9 SAA soldiers. However, no photos or videos from the scene were provided.
Pro-Kurdish media activists are denying reports that the SDF shelled the SAA near the Euphrates.
On September 21, the Russian military announced that it will strike any force that shell government forces or Russian special task forces operating near Deir Ezzor city.
Earlier in September, the SDF and SDF-linked media outlets repeatedly claimed that the US-backed force will not allow government troops to cross the Euphrates and will “liberate” the entire Deir Ezzor province.
****
Oh BTW, KRAPO, I didn't want to bury relevant posts in bullshit, like you seem intent on doing to this thread, but I did edit a previous post with a sampling of your bullshit and lies. As you post more bullshit, I'll just add to the list; it will stand as my reply to your off-topic posts without generating more off-topic posts to this thread.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Ok Sig, so are you dropping your claim that NATO backed Kiev's claim that the Russian convoy was destroyed?
Quote:
KPO, I didn't want to bury relevant posts in bullshit, like you seem intent on doing to this thread, but I did edit a previous post
If you want to move the discussion to another thread, fine. If you want to run from it, fine. What's the rationale behind responding to me by editing your old posts?
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Russian MoD: US Strongholds Found In ISIS-held Regions Near Deir Ezzor
One of the questions that would come up, for anyone who cares to read a map of Syria, is How did the (USA-backed, Kurdish-based) SDF move from northern Syria bordering Turkey and part of Iraq, which is their base, to Deir Ezzor, which is significantly to the south, without any battles being fought? The implication is that USA Spec Ops greased the way for the SDF thru ISIS-held territory.
If you read this text, it will say that USA Special Forces were embedded with ISIS. I've quoted the text here, but corrected some typos and grammatical errors.
Quote:As I read this, it sounds to me like the Russian MOD is saying that USA Spec Ops were embedded with ISIS.
On Sunday, the Russian Ministry of Defense (Russian MoD) revealed in an official statement that US Special Operations Forces units enabled the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) to smoothly advance through ISIS formations in Deir Ezzor governorate.
Quote:
The Russian MoD statement said that the US Special Operations Forces units were spotted at ISIS strongholds. However, there was “no evidence of assault, struggle or any US-led coalition airstrikes to drive out the militants.”
Quote:
“The shots clearly show the US SOF units located at strongholds that had been equipped by the ISIS terrorists. Though there is no evidence of assault, struggle or any US-led coalition airstrikes to drive out the militants.
Despite that the US strongholds being located in the ISIS areas, no screening patrol has been organized at them. This suggests that the US troops feel safe in terrorist controlled regions,” the statement said.
Furthermore, the Russian MoD released satellite photos of ISIS strongholds in Deir Ezzor governorate that were taken on September 8-12. The photos showed several US-made Humvee vehicles, which are in service with the US Special Operations Forces.
The official statement also revealed that the US Special Operations Forces didn’t organize any patrols on the front lines with ISIS. This suggests that the US Special Operations Forces felt safe in the newly captured positions although ISIS fighters are only meters away.
The evidences released by the Russian MoD explains the rapid advance of the SDF in Deir Ezzor governorate during the last two weeks. The Russian MoD announcement also confirmed the US Special Operations Forces role on the ground may be bigger than the role played by the SDF itself.
Satellite photos and original article here
https://southfront.org/russian-mod-us-stronghols-found-in-isis-held-re
gions-near-deir-ezzor/
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Oh BTW KRAPO, I DID respond to you post. But I refuse to make my response to your off-topic posts the last post in the thread, because that's what people see first. CLEARLY, you're attempting to thread-jack. But if Ukraine is such a burning issue for you, and GSTRING's thread is too long for your taste, feel free to start another thread. I know you know how.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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It's ok Sig, I know you're never going to come out and say, "Sorry guys, I was wrong, I'll retract my claim". The key thing for me is that you've stared this particular wrongness in the face for long enough that you won't feel compelled to repeat it again.
I'll leave you to your loony Russian propagandising now. US special forces teaming up with ISIS? Uh-huh...
*backs away slowly*
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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OH BTW KRAPO, I DID RESPOND TO YOUR POSTS. If anyone wants to read them you'll have to pick thru my previous posts to see where I added the response.
It's always good to know what others are saying about you ...
Quote:
Russia Blames US For Death Of Top General In Syria
Shortly after Russia disclosed on Sunday that a top Russian military commander, Lieutenant General Valery Asapov - who was serving as one of Russia’s "military advisers" in Syria - was fatally wounded by an exploding shell in a mortar attack by ISIS terrorists, on Monday the Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov said that the “two-faced policy” of the United States was to blame for the death of the Russian General in Syria.
“The death of the Russian commander is the price, the bloody price, for two-faced American policy in Syria,” Ryabkov told reporters, according to RIA.
Killed in ISIS shelling near #DeirEzzor, Asapov is to be presented with a state decoration posthumously https://t.co/HjBSWLvdeD pic.twitter.com/Y1nGlIA8nF
— RT (@RT_com) September 24, 2017
The Russian Defense Ministry said on Sunday that Asapov had been killed by Islamic State shelling near Deir al-Zor; his death was revealed around the time Moscow disclosed what it said was photographic evidence showing US special operations located at Islamic State positions in Syria.
The aerial photos of ISIS' territory north of #Deir_ez_Zor where #USA special operation troops are seen https://t.co/lH6u8H9bvZ pic.twitter.com/gjqlQubi9o
— ?????????? ?????? (@mod_russia) September 24, 2017
Russia has complained about what it has suggested are "suspiciously friendly ties" between U.S.-backed militias, U.S. special forces, and Islamic State in the area, accusing Washington of trying to slow the advance of the Syrian army.
As a reminder, on Sunday the Russian Ministry of Defense published aerial images which they say show US Army special forces equipment located north of the Syrian town of Deir ez-Zor, where IS militants are deployed. The US troops do not face any “resistance from the ISIS militants,” while their positions have no screening patrol, which could indicate that they “feel absolutely safe” in the area, the ministry said. The US Central Command however denied the accusations in a written statement to RT.
“The allegations are false. For operational security, we do not comment on ongoing operations or the current positions of Coalition personnel and our partner forces,” the Combined Joint Task Force-Operation Inherent Resolve said.
Ryabkov also questioned Washington’s intention to fight Islamic State in Syria.
“The American side declares that it is interested in the elimination of IS ... but some of its actions show it is doing the opposite and that some political and geopolitical goals are more important for Washington,” Ryabkov said according to Reuters.
Meanwhile, in keeping with the growing escalation between Russia and the US over Deir Ezzor, earlier on Monday, American-backed Syrian militias again accused Russian warplanes of striking their positions in the oil-rich province, near a natural gas field they seized from Islamic State last week. Russia denied that.
Despite the growing escalations, the Russian and US militaries maintain “intensive” contacts at different levels, Ryabkov said
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-25/russia-blames-us-death-top-ge
neral-syria
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
OH BTW KPO, I DID RESPOND TO YOUR POSTS. If anyone wants to read them you'll have to pick thru my previous posts
Haha, I love this. This is next level Siggy evasion tactics. "Oh I absolutely did provide that cite KPO repeatedly asked for to back up that bullshit claim I made - you just have to play hide and seek through my old posts to find it."
A++
Ok, sorry Sig. Back to Zerohedge and the USA-ISIS axis.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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