The US is sabre rattling --- again. The question is, will the US people fall for it --- again.
POSTED BY: 1kiki
UPDATED: Monday, May 14, 2018 04:23
VIEWED: 24278
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Militarization Of Scandinavian Peninsula: Time To Ring Alarm Bells
Created 08/01/2017 - 03:30
Much has been said about NATO reinforcements in the Baltic States and Poland perceived in Moscow as provocative actions undermining security in Europe, while very little has been said about gradual but steady militarization of Scandinavia. The theme does not hit headlines and it is not in focus of public discourse but one step is taken after another to turn the region into a springboard for staging offensive actions against Russia.
[5]
Ørland [6] in southern Norway is being expanded to become Norway’s main air force base hosting US-made F-35 Lightnings – the stealth aircraft to become the backbone of Norwegian air power. Norway has purchased 56 of such aircraft. F-35 is an offensive, not defensive, weapon. The nuclear capable platforms can strike deep into Russia’s territory.
Providing training to Norwegian pilots operating the planes carrying nuclear weapons, such as B61-12 glider warheads, constitutes a violation of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) [7] of 1968. Article I of the NPT prohibits the transfer of nuclear weapons from NWS (nuclear weapons states) to other states: «Each nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to transfer to any recipient whatsoever nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or control over such weapons or explosive devices». Article II requires NNWS (non-nuclear weapons states) not to receive nuclear weapons: «Each non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to receive the transfer from any transfer or whatsoever of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or of control over such weapons or explosive devices». How can Russia be sure that these aircraft don’t carry nuclear weapons when there is no agreement of any kind in place to verify compliance with the NPT?
Ørland is located near Værnes - the base that hosts 330 US Marines. In May, the base hosted the biennial NATO military exercise «Arctic Challenge Exercise 2017» to involve over 100 planes from 12 nations. It was the first time a US strategic bomber (B-52H) took part in the training event.
The choice of the base was carefully calculated to keep the planes away from the reach of Russian Iskander missiles (500 kilometres) but no location in Norway is beyond the operational range of Kalibr ship-based sea-to-shore missiles and aircraft armed with long-range air-to-surface missiles.
In June, Norway’s government announced [8] that the decision was taken to extend the rotational US Marine Corps force stationed at Værnes through 2018. The move contradicts the tried-and-true Norwegian policy of not deploying foreign military bases in the country in times of peace.
Also in June, the United States, United Kingdom and Norway agreed in principle to create a trilateral coalition built around the P-8 maritime aircraft to include joint operations in the North Atlantic near the Russian Northern Fleet bases.
Norway is to contribute into NATO ballistic missile defense (BMD) system by integrating its Globus II/III radar in the Vardøya Island located near the Russian border just a few kilometers from the home base of strategic submarines and 5 Aegis-equipped Fridtjof Nansen-class frigates. The radar construction is underway. The Vardøya radar can distinguish real warheads from dummies. Another radar located in Svalbard (the Arctic) can also be used by US military for missile defense purposes.
The country’s ground forces are stationed in Lithuania as part of a NATO multinational force under German command.
Sweden, a close NATO ally, has been upgrading its military with a sharp hike in spending. Last December, the Swedish government told municipal authorities to prepare civil defense infrastructure and procedures for a possible war. The move was prompted by the country’s return to the Cold War-era ‘Total Defense Strategy’. In September, 2016, 150 troops were put on permanent service on the island of Gotland to «defend
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Who is doing the sabre rattling?
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Is Donald Trump Tweeting the U.S. into a War on North Korea?
Trump has exhibited a disturbing pattern of reckless spontaneity, usually expressed publicly through his Twitter feed, when announcing what could rightly be construed as new U.S. policies. Indeed, when Trump’s senior adviser Sebastian Gorka was asked on Fox News what leverage Trump has left to pressure China to do more to contain potential threats from North Korea, Gorka shot back: “We have, you know, the president’s Twitter feed.”
Perhaps more disturbing than what Trump tweets publicly is what he is telling influential U.S. senators privately. Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham said recently that Trump told him he is willing to militarily obliterate the nation of North Korea if necessary. “There is a military option to destroy North Korea’s program and North Korea itself,” Graham told NBC. Trump, he said, “told me that to my face.”
Trump is doing his best to inflame tensions with North Korea. Last weekend, the U.S. flew two B-1 bombers over the Korean Peninsula. It also conducted a ballistic missile test in the region. South Korea is now asking the Trump administration for its own new missiles with a capacity to strike deeper into the North.
Tensions on the Korean peninsula are not new. And every U.S. administration seems to find itself in a similar conundrum with the regime. But Trump is erratic and tends to just spit out whatever he is thinking. And that could prove very dangerous with nuclear weapons and nuclear powers.
https://theintercept.com/2017/08/06/donald-trump-north-korea-intercept
ed-podcast-john-feffer/
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First the US, through its proxy NATO, put nuclear weapons in Europe during the cold war, in violation of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, where they remain to this day ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing
As of November 2009, Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Turkey are hosting U.S. nuclear weapons as part of NATO's nuclear sharing policy.
http://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/us-moves-nuclear-we
apons-from-turkey-to-romania/
US moves nuclear weapons from Turkey to Romania
... and pushed NATO to bomb Serbia in 1994 and Kosovo in 1999 without UN approval https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO, and divided Serbia unilaterally without UN process https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2008/08/12/the-united-states-shar
es-the-blame-for-the-russia-georgia-crisis ...
... then the US pushed NATO to Russian Borders in violation of previous agreements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO
29 March 2004 Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Albania
1 April 2009 Croatia
5 June 2017 Montenegro ...
... decided to plant a missile shield on Russia's borders ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/22/world/middleeast/22missiles.html
U.S. Is Proposing European Shield for Iran Missiles
MAY 22, 2006
... supplied the Georgian dictator Saakashvili with hundreds of millions of dollars worth of arms, which emboldened him to attack the Russian-aligned South Ossetia in 2008 https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2008/08/12/the-united-states-shar
es-the-blame-for-the-russia-georgia-crisis ...
... engineered a coup in Ukraine to overthrow a DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035655#1035655 ...
... and has now activated the previously mentioned shield ... http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-shield-idUSKCN0Y217M
May 11, 2016 / 11:17 AM
U.S. to switch on European missile shield despite Russian alarm
It was the failed Bay of Pigs invasion that drove Cuba to Russia for protection. And back then, when it was OUR turn to have Russian forces and nuclear arms at our doorstep, Kennedy went into such a tizzy the planet almost got blown up.
I think Russia has shown amazing restraint to our provocations, by merely moving troops to its side of the Ukrainian border AFTER fighting broke out and refugees started streaming in to Russia.
WE own the mess.
Meanwhile, the shit being liberally strewn around - which you are all gobbling up as gustily as pigs in a pen - is that this crisis is somehow Russian aggression.
We're not being told all the relevant information. Instead, we're being groomed, again, into yet another rape of our blood and treasure, through a highly selected and intensive campaign of partial, a-historical tidbits.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:Foolish Kennedy had his missile crisis with Cuba, and foolish Trump could have a missile crisis with North Korea. For those who never knew, the Cuban Missile Crisis ended because Kennedy secretly (Yes, Secretly.) promised Khrushchev during the crisis to withdraw his missiles from Turkey.
Originally posted by 1kiki:
It was the failed Bay of Pigs invasion that drove Cuba to Russia for protection.
I think Russia has shown amazing restraint to our provocations, by merely moving troops to its side of the Ukrainian border AFTER fighting broke out and refugees started streaming in to Russia.
WE own the mess.
The USA's representation of Kim Jong-un as a kind of tyrannical brat or an infant who has no rational goals is incorrect. Number one rational goal for Kim Jong-un is preservation of his own authority and the preservation of his system of government. He knows that any attack of South Korea or the United States would spell the end of North Korea as a country, and of course, by extension the end of him and his regime. So pure self-preservation dictates that North Korea is not going to engage in any kind of attack on a sovereign country.
On the other hand, Trump might do something entirely unexpected because he’s listening to Fox and Friends, or he has developed some hobbyhorse notion about a country that he might indulge in some entirely irrational act.
https://theintercept.com/2017/08/06/donald-trump-north-korea-intercept
ed-podcast-john-feffer/
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Trump has ALREADY capitulated to the Deep State and is ALREADY provoking Russia - a fully capable nuclear country that ALREADY DOES have the capacity to turn the US into smoking nuclear ash.
Why are you worried about North Korea? Because the deep state media is telling you to?
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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It won't come to that. Unlike our jihadi friends, Russia isn't full of a bunch of religious nutjobs.
There is no ROI for either side in a nuclear war. I can't even think of any far-fetched semi-plausible reason that the Deep State would want that either.
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That's the calculation that the Deep State is making - which is why they think they can do ANYTHING they want to Russia.
But Putin doesn't have nearly the military of the US. The only thing he has that can even up the score is nuclear arms. And he has promised to use them if provoked.
** WE ** shouldn't even be pushing on that line, betting that Russia won't go over it.
How lucky do you feel?
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Who is doing the sabre rattling?
Kiki and Signym
==============================
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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That's the calculation that the Deep State is making - which is why they think they can do ANYTHING they want to Russia.
But Putin doesn't have nearly the military of the US. The only thing he has that can even up the score is nuclear arms. And he has promised to use them if provoked.
** WE ** shouldn't even be pushing on that line, betting that Russia won't go over it.
How lucky do you feel?
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
That's the calculation that the Deep State is making - which is why they think they can do ANYTHING they want to Russia.
But Putin doesn't have nearly the military of the US. The only thing he has that can even up the score is nuclear arms. And he has promised to use them if provoked.
** WE ** shouldn't even be pushing on that line, betting that Russia won't go over it.
How lucky do you feel?
Don't look at me. I don't agree with it.
Last I checked anybody with their fingers anywhere near those buttons don't give a shit what I think.
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"It won't come to that. Unlike our jihadi friends, Russia isn't full of a bunch of religious nutjobs."
And here I thought you were feeling pretty lucky.
BTW - jihadists aren't the only nut jobs around. All you have to do is look at Serbia, Georgia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Ukraine, and Syria as a product of our CIA/ State Dept/ neocon Deep State to understand that the people running the show are unhinged.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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"It won't come to that. Unlike our jihadi friends, Russia isn't full of a bunch of religious nutjobs."
And here I thought you were feeling pretty lucky.
BTW - jihadists aren't the only nut jobs around. All you have to do is look at Serbia, Georgia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Ukraine, and Syria as a product of our CIA/ State Dept/ neocon Deep State to understand that the people running the show are unhinged.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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So, let me reiterate:
All the provocative actions the US has initiated on Russia's borders, and the conflicts where the US has engaged Russia in other countries, are historical facts. The US is aggressively pushing Russia on the GAMBLE that while the US deep state can act like assholes wherever it wants, Russia in contrast will politely fold its hands and acquiesce.
In kindergarten, in law, and in international policy, WHO STARTED IT MATTERS. And who's starting it is the US.
Those facts are being quietly shuffled away.
Instead, we're being treated to an endless barrage of RUSSIA !!! hysteria to prime us for conflict.
SOMEBODY - please quote me. Because I want to be able to point this out to you again, later on, and not be accused of creating it after the fact.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:Are you being a stupid asshole on purpose? Or is it a permanent condition? Russia is not about to INITIATE an attack on us. It doesn't mean Russia won't RESPOND with whatever it has in its arsenal.
Originally posted by G:
But Signuts says the US doesn't have anything to fear from poor little ole Russia...?
So all the RUSSIA !!! boogeyman stories are just fables for scaring children.
But we're not children, are we.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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HERE ARE THE FACTS OF US THE PROVOKING RUSSIA.
ANYONE HAVE ANYTHING RELEVANT TO SAY, OR ARE YOU ALL IMMUNE TO FACTS?
First the US, through its proxy NATO, put nuclear weapons in Europe during the cold war, in violation of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, where they remain to this day ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing
As of November 2009, Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Turkey are hosting U.S. nuclear weapons as part of NATO's nuclear sharing policy.
http://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/us-moves-nuclear-we
apons-from-turkey-to-romania/
US moves nuclear weapons from Turkey to Romania
... and pushed NATO to bomb Serbia in 1994 and Kosovo in 1999 without UN approval https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO, and divided Serbia unilaterally without UN process https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2008/08/12/the-united-states-shar
es-the-blame-for-the-russia-georgia-crisis ...
... then the US pushed NATO to Russian Borders in violation of previous agreements
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_NATO
29 March 2004 Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Albania
1 April 2009 Croatia
5 June 2017 Montenegro ...
... decided to plant a missile shield on Russia's borders ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/22/world/middleeast/22missiles.html
U.S. Is Proposing European Shield for Iran Missiles
MAY 22, 2006
... supplied the Georgian dictator Saakashvili with hundreds of millions of dollars worth of arms, which emboldened him to attack the Russian-aligned South Ossetia in 2008 https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2008/08/12/the-united-states-shar
es-the-blame-for-the-russia-georgia-crisis ...
... engineered a coup in Ukraine to overthrow a DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035655#1035655 ...
... and has now activated the previously mentioned shield ... http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nato-shield-idUSKCN0Y217M
May 11, 2016 / 11:17 AM
U.S. to switch on European missile shield despite Russian alarm
It was the failed Bay of Pigs invasion that drove Cuba to Russia for protection. And back then, when it was OUR turn to have Russian forces and nuclear arms at our doorstep, Kennedy went into such a tizzy the planet almost got blown up.
I think Russia has shown amazing restraint to our provocations, by merely moving troops to its side of the Ukrainian border AFTER fighting broke out and refugees started streaming in to Russia.
WE own the mess.
Meanwhile, the shit being liberally strewn around - which you are all gobbling up as gustily as pigs in a pen - is that this crisis is somehow Russian aggression.
We're not being told all the relevant information. Instead, we're being groomed, again, into yet another rape of our blood and treasure, through a highly selected and intensive campaign of partial, a-historical tidbits.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I think Russia has shown amazing restraint to our provocations, by merely moving troops to its side of the Ukrainian border AFTER fighting broke out
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:
... we're being groomed, again, into yet another rape of our blood and treasure, through a highly selected and intensive campaign of partial, a-historical tidbits.
https://www.nytimes.com/
U.S. Troops Training to Echoes of the Cold War
A 10-day exercise in Eastern Europe offered a window into how Army commanders are rehearsing updated tactics and strategies once used to counter Soviet troops.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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I'm guessing strategies and gear has changed some since 1950's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's ...
At least, I'm hoping so .
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Be a dear and quote this. I want to be able to post it later without you plural claiming I made it up after-the-fact.
So, let me reiterate:
All the provocative actions the US has initiated on Russia's borders, and the conflicts where the US has engaged Russia in other countries, are historical facts. The US is aggressively pushing Russia on the GAMBLE that while the US deep state can act like assholes wherever it wants, Russia in contrast will politely fold its hands and acquiesce.
In kindergarten, in law, and in international policy, WHO STARTED IT MATTERS. And who's starting it is the US.
Those facts are being quietly shuffled away.
Instead, we're being treated to an endless barrage of RUSSIA !!! hysteria to prime us for conflict.
SOMEBODY - please quote me. Because I want to be able to point this out to you again, later on, and not be accused of creating it after the fact.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Militarization Of Scandinavian Peninsula: Time To Ring Alarm Bells
Created 08/01/2017 - 03:30
Much has been said about NATO reinforcements in the Baltic States and Poland perceived in Moscow as provocative actions undermining security in Europe, while very little has been said about gradual but steady militarization of Scandinavia. The theme does not hit headlines and it is not in focus of public discourse but one step is taken after another to turn the region into a springboard for staging offensive actions against Russia.
[5]
Ørland [6] in southern Norway is being expanded to become Norway’s main air force base hosting US-made F-35 Lightnings – the stealth aircraft to become the backbone of Norwegian air power. Norway has purchased 56 of such aircraft. F-35 is an offensive, not defensive, weapon. The nuclear capable platforms can strike deep into Russia’s territory.
Providing training to Norwegian pilots operating the planes carrying nuclear weapons, such as B61-12 glider warheads, constitutes a violation of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) [7] of 1968. Article I of the NPT prohibits the transfer of nuclear weapons from NWS (nuclear weapons states) to other states: «Each nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to transfer to any recipient whatsoever nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or control over such weapons or explosive devices». Article II requires NNWS (non-nuclear weapons states) not to receive nuclear weapons: «Each non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to receive the transfer from any transfer or whatsoever of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or of control over such weapons or explosive devices». How can Russia be sure that these aircraft don’t carry nuclear weapons when there is no agreement of any kind in place to verify compliance with the NPT?
Ørland is located near Værnes - the base that hosts 330 US Marines. In May, the base hosted the biennial NATO military exercise «Arctic Challenge Exercise 2017» to involve over 100 planes from 12 nations. It was the first time a US strategic bomber (B-52H) took part in the training event.
The choice of the base was carefully calculated to keep the planes away from the reach of Russian Iskander missiles (500 kilometres) but no location in Norway is beyond the operational range of Kalibr ship-based sea-to-shore missiles and aircraft armed with long-range air-to-surface missiles.
In June, Norway’s government announced [8] that the decision was taken to extend the rotational US Marine Corps force stationed at Værnes through 2018. The move contradicts the tried-and-true Norwegian policy of not deploying foreign military bases in the country in times of peace.
Also in June, the United States, United Kingdom and Norway agreed in principle to create a trilateral coalition built around the P-8 maritime aircraft to include joint operations in the North Atlantic near the Russian Northern Fleet bases.
Norway is to contribute into NATO ballistic missile defense (BMD) system by integrating its Globus II/III radar in the Vardøya Island located near the Russian border just a few kilometers from the home base of strategic submarines and 5 Aegis-equipped Fridtjof Nansen-class frigates. The radar construction is underway. The Vardøya radar can distinguish real warheads from dummies. Another radar located in Svalbard (the Arctic) can also be used by US military for missile defense purposes.
The country’s ground forces are stationed in Lithuania as part of a NATO multinational force under German command.
Sweden, a close NATO ally, has been upgrading its military with a sharp hike in spending. Last December, the Swedish government told municipal authorities to prepare civil defense infrastructure and procedures for a possible war. The move was prompted by the country’s return to the Cold War-era ‘Total Defense Strategy’. In September, 2016, 150 troops were put on permanent service oNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Be a dear and quote this. I want to be able to post it later without you plural claiming I made it up after-the-fact.
So, let me reiterate:
All the provocative actions the US has initiated on Russia's borders, and the conflicts where the US has engaged Russia in other countries, are historical facts. The US is aggressively pushing Russia on the GAMBLE that while the US deep state can act like assholes wherever it wants, Russia in contrast will politely fold its hands and acquiesce.
In kindergarten, in law, and in international policy, WHO STARTED IT MATTERS. And who's starting it is the US.
Those facts are being quietly shuffled away.
Instead, we're being treated to an endless barrage of RUSSIA !!! hysteria to prime us for conflict.
SOMEBODY - please quote me. Because I want to be able to point this out to you again, later on, and not be accused of creating it after the fact.
==================
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
Quoted, as requested.
-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*
And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581
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Well ... THANKS!
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:Wow, strawmanning, and a personal attack all in 15 words!
Trump has ALREADY capitulated to the Deep State and is ALREADY provoking Russia - a fully capable nuclear country that ALREADY DOES have the capacity to turn the US into smoking nuclear ash.- KIKI
But Signuts says the US doesn't have anything to fear from poor little ole Russia...? - SIGNUTS
As usual, GSTRING, you're LYING, you steaming sack of troll-shit.
What I said was
Quote:http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=61835
So, what is Putin's long game??? As far as I can tell, it's "multipolarity". It's something he has spoken of often, and - as a model for a nation of that size- it matches Russia's long-term interests and capabilities. Because Russia really doesn't have the capability to take over the whole world. The only thing they can offer is a credible defense for some areas. And also, they are the other half of mutually assured destruction. It also matches Russia's history of creating overlapping economic and military partnerships with other mid-sized Eurasian nations, and - frankly- I don't see anything wrong with that.
If you think in REAL TERMS about American versus Russian militaries, America has 55 TIMES the number of military bases, 12 TIMES the number of aircraft carriers, and approximately TWICE AS MANY LONG RANGE AIRCRAFT .... ALL FORWARD PROJECTIONS OF AMERICAN MILITARY POWER, DESIGNED TO DOMINATE THE GLOBE. We have the hubris to think of ourselves as the "indispensable nation" empowered to command the world, and an unparalleled history of nation-destruction to prove it.
What Russia DOES have is the ability to defend a few key partners ... Syria plus Iran, for example. Since the USA depends on air superiority Russia is also willing to sell defensive missile systems to prevent USA bombing runs.
But Russia doesn't have the multi-front capability of USA+NATO. In the end, if their fairly thin defensive structure is overwhelmed and Russia ITSELF is attacked, perhaps by a USA first strike, Russia has promised that the war won't be fought only on their soil; that they will go nuclear and destroy the USA. That is their last line of defense.
They are so committed to this concept that they have developed (they say) automated submarine missile-launchers which have been quietly positioned off the coasts of the USA, ready to fire nuclear weapons at the USA in the event that their central command is destroyed. A kind of "dead-man's hand" response.
Americans have gotten so used to the idea that wars are always fought "elsewhere" that the idea of MAD has slipped below the radar. But when Putin says that Russia is prepared to use nuclear weapons in their defense, I believe him.
-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*
And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581
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Quote:Putin's "dead-man's hand" would only be built by someone who totally believes the myth that "Nuclear weapons are essential for deterrence". That deterrence myth has accidentally come very close to killing him several times:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But Russia doesn't have the multi-front capability of USA+NATO. In the end, if their fairly thin defensive structure is overwhelmed and Russia ITSELF is attacked, perhaps by a USA first strike, Russia has promised that the war won't be fought only on their soil; that they will go nuclear and destroy the USA. That is their last line of defense.
They are so committed to this concept that they have developed (they say) automated submarine missile-launchers which have been quietly positioned off the coasts of the USA, ready to fire nuclear weapons at the USA in the event that their central command is destroyed. A kind of "dead-man's hand" response.
Americans have gotten so used to the idea that wars are always fought "elsewhere" that the idea of MAD has slipped below the radar. But when Putin says that Russia is prepared to use nuclear weapons in their defense, I believe him.
http://wavefunction.fieldofscience.com/2017/08/the-bomb-ended-world-wa
r-2-and-other.html
One could add several other examples beyond the Cuban Missile Crisis to the list of close calls; a later one would be the Able Archer exercise of 1983 that caused the Soviets deep anxiety and borderline paranoia. In addition, as documented in Eric Schlosser's book Command and Control, there were dozens of close calls - swiftly classified, of course - in the form of nuclear accidents which could have led to catastrophic loss of life. The fact is that deterrence is always touted as the ultimate counter-argument to the risks of nuclear warfare, but there are scores of examples where political leaders decided to escalate and provoke the other side in spite of deterrence. From the other side of the fence it looks like deterrence ultimately worked, but often by a very slim margin. Add to this the fact that the vast network of nuclear command and control centers and protocols developed by nuclear nations are manned by fallible human beings; they are examples of complex systems subject to so-called "normal accidents". There is also no dearth of examples during the Cold War where lowly technicians and army officers could have launched World War 3 because of miscalculation, misunderstandings or paranoia. The fact is that these weapons of mass destruction have a life of their own; they are beyond the abilities of human beings to completely harness because human weaknesses and flaws also have lives of their own.
There is much more at http://wavefunction.fieldofscience.com/2017/08/the-bomb-ended-world-wa
r-2-and-other.html
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
That's the calculation that the Deep State is making - which is why they think they can do ANYTHING they want to Russia.
But Putin doesn't have nearly the military of the US. The only thing he has that can even up the score is nuclear arms. And he has promised to use them if provoked.
** WE ** shouldn't even be pushing on that line, betting that Russia won't go over it.
How lucky do you feel?
Very, yep, very lucky. Putin has surrounded himself with like minded criminals. They aren't going to back him when it comes to their own destruction. Their loyalty lasts only as long as the money keeps coming in and their survival is not threatened.
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So, just to be clear, you are all on board with playing nuclear chicken?
THUGGER, GEEBERS, KPO, Rappy, SECONDS?
Yes or no will be adequate.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, just to be clear, you are all on board with playing nuclear chicken?
Wha...? Nuclear chicken is a board game? You're unclear about nuclear? You say you have the brain of a chicken... wha?
==============================
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The name "chicken" has its origins in a game in which two drivers drive towards each other on a collision course: one must swerve, or both may die in the crash, but if one driver swerves and the other does not, the one who swerved will be called a "chicken", meaning a coward; this terminology is most prevalent in political science and economics.
So, just to be clear, you are all on board with playing nuclear chicken?
THUGGER, GEEBERS, KPO, Rappy, SECONDS?
Care to answer the question?
Yes or no will be adequate.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Just tallying up how MANY times you duck the question.
The name "chicken" has its origins in a game in which two drivers drive towards each other on a collision course: one must swerve, or both may die in the crash, but if one driver swerves and the other does not, the one who swerved will be called a "chicken", meaning a coward; this terminology is most prevalent in political science and economics.
So, just to be clear, you are all on board with playing nuclear chicken?
THUGGER, GEEBERS, KPO, Rappy, SECONDS?
Care to answer the question?
Yes or no will be adequate.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Russian president Vladimir Putin has taken a page from Nazi Germany’s playbook of the 1930s and early 1940s. He claims responsibility for ethnic Russian minorities in neighboring countries. We saw this gambit in Russia’s war against Georgia in 2008, in the military occupation of Crimea in 2014, and in its ongoing military operations in Eastern Ukraine. “Ethnic cleansing” and “Russification” of key areas have followed some of these military operations. But Putin has what Hitler lacked: nuclear weapons. With these, he attempts to pressure neighboring states to timidly accept Moscow’s desires, including the redrawing of European borders and “Russification.” Russia now wields nuclear weapons and threats not only to protect its territory but also to intimidate and coerce its neighbors into submission. Moscow’s crude nuclear threats to its neighbors, including American allies, vividly demonstrate its aggressive nuclear strategy. Those threats are intended to stoke such fear in the U.S. and its allies that all will hesitate to respond strongly to Russian military aggression. For Putin, the fruits of this grand strategy include approval ratings within Russia that are the envy of the world: 89 percent. In short, Russia’s strategy is now one of nuclear coercion, not stable mutual deterrence. How far Putin will push this strategy remains an open question, but recent history does not suggest a comforting answer. As Secretary of Defense Ash Carter observed in a speech to American allies this month: “Moscow’s nuclear sabre-rattling raises questions about Russia’s commitment to strategic stability and causes us . . . to wonder whether . . . they share the profound caution . . . that world leaders in the nuclear age have shown over decades to the brandishing of nuclear weapons.” Precisely so, which is why Russia’s nuclear policies are now so dangerous.
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420510/putin-wields-nuclear-thre
at-and-plays-fire-keith-b-payne
Yet with SIG and kiki it's America that's the problem. Well 
you comrades. There is nobody here afraid of that midget Putin.
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Just tallying up how MANY times you duck the question.
The name "chicken" has its origins in a game in which two drivers drive towards each other on a collision course: one must swerve, or both may die in the crash, but if one driver swerves and the other does not, the one who swerved will be called a "chicken", meaning a coward; this terminology is most prevalent in political science and economics.
So, just to be clear, you are all on board with playing nuclear chicken?
THUGGER, GEEBERS, KPO, Rappy, SECONDS?
Care to answer the question?
Yes or no will be adequate.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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So I'm going to pose this question again, because it's a simple one. The press would have us believe that we should be afraid, VERY AFRAID, of North Korea. It's a country that, granted, has managed to outplay the US at every turn, with its role as China's rabid pet dog. So while China pantomimes that it's trying as best as it can to rein in the North Korean leader de jour, North Korea careens down its path under the protection of its big neighbor. OTOH, despite its strategic brilliance in inhabiting the China-US-NorthKorea triangle, North Korea barely has an arsenal, let alone missiles to carry its bombs. And North Korea will never be a country-destroying threat. (The same could be said for Iran.) And with just one warhead launched from the country, its future as a barrens of radioactive dust is guaranteed.
And here we are, being told to shake in our boots over a country that couldn't really hurt us.
But at the same time, we're told that the evil Empire Russia, with a capacity to destroy the planet all on its own, has been completely defanged. It's toothless. Harmless. It wouldn't dare do anything, so we can provoke it as much as we want. Because it can't hurt us.
Does that package of propaganda seem batty to you? Because it sure does to me. Fear the mouse in the corner, ignore the bear at your back.
And the only reason it's acceptable to you all is because you've let yourselves be unthinkingly conditioned by the media. "The US is sabre rattling --- again. The question is, will the US people fall for it --- again." You all are sure falling for it --- again.
With that in mind ...
The name "chicken" has its origins in a game in which two drivers drive towards each other on a collision course: one must swerve, or both may die in the crash, but if one driver swerves and the other does not, the one who swerved will be called a "chicken", meaning a coward; this terminology is most prevalent in political science and economics.
So, just to be clear, you are all on board with playing nuclear chicken?
THUGGER, GEEBERS, KPO, Rappy, SECONDS?
Care to answer the question?
Yes or no will be adequate.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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The threat of nuclear war is a tactic used by North Korea and Russia to try and leverage what they want. They hype the threat via government statements and propaganda to try and influence and intimidate Western (and South Korean) public opinion. Russia is more toned-down than North Korea, but it is essentially the same tactic.
And here you are kiki being a good information warrior/useful idiot doing your best to spread the Russian message of fear and hysteria. But, level headed people know, the idea that if we put sanctions on Russia for bad behaviour, or don't give in to all its geopolitical desires it will lead to nuclear war, is absurd.
Nuclear arsenals are not a way for a country to throw its weight around, and countries should not be rewarded for doing so. That will only inspire other rogue nation wannabes to do the same.
To answer your question, kiki, we should ignore Russia's nuclear hype emanating from its government and propaganda mouthpieces, and ignore its snowflake geopolitical butthurt as well.
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:No. But that is not enough answer. Russia's tactic is mentioned in the wiki's Chicken Game, plus much more about generalized game theory:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, just to be clear, you are all on board with playing nuclear chicken?
THUGGER, GEEBERS, KPO, Rappy, SECONDS?
Care to answer the question?
Yes or no will be adequate.
In Stanley Kubrick's Dr. Strangelove, the Russians sought to deter American attack by building a "doomsday machine," a device that would trigger world annihilation if Russia was hit by nuclear weapons or if any attempt were made to disarm it. However, the Russians had planned to signal the deployment of the machine a few days after having set it up, which, because of an unfortunate course of events, turned out to be too late.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_(game)#Pre-commitment
1kiki, oddly enough, Signym says Putin is playing an actual game of Chicken from Dr. Strangelove:
Quote:If Putin has built the "dead-man's hand", but won't prove it actually exists, then Russia is playing the Dr. Strangelove version of a game of chicken. That ends with the world destroyed. Well done, Vladimir Putin, for turning a satire into reality.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But Russia doesn't have the multi-front capability of USA+NATO. In the end, if their fairly thin defensive structure is overwhelmed and Russia ITSELF is attacked, perhaps by a USA first strike, Russia has promised that the war won't be fought only on their soil; that they will go nuclear and destroy the USA. That is their last line of defense.
They are so committed to this concept that they have developed (they say) automated submarine missile-launchers which have been quietly positioned off the coasts of the USA, ready to fire nuclear weapons at the USA in the event that their central command is destroyed. A kind of "dead-man's hand" response.
Putin ought not to be coy about it, saying maybe I have built this "doomsday machine" or maybe I haven't. He has to make it plainly obvious to the USA that he has built his "dead-man's hand". I suggest Putin give tours to the American public of his "dead-man's hand" or "doomsday machine" and give out free books, in English and Spanish, on precisely how it works.
The USA has not built an American version of either Putin's "dead-man's hand" or "doomsday machine". The USA is NOT playing chicken, despite what 1kiki claims. At least not until Trump. Trump has asked why the USA has nukes if he can't use them.
www.cnbc.com/2016/08/03/trump-asks-why-us-cant-use-nukes-msnbcs-joe-sc
arborough-reports.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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And there you have it kiki. The last few posts all have a common answer. We aren't playing chicken with Russia.
We're calling their bluff.
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You're such an idiot, SECONDS.
The USA and the USSR signed a number of treaties and made a number of agreements to stabilize Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD).
Quote:And BTW, I have to say that you showing off your paltry knowledge of game theory is kinda dopey. EVERYONE who has ever looked at game theory knows that MAD is the greatest game of chicken even played, and has been since the dawn of the nuclear arms race. There's nothing new here. Also, it takes TWO to play a game of "chicken". More on that later. But thanks for being (1) late to the game and (2) one-sided, like most neocons.
Signym says Putin is playing an actual game of Chicken from Dr. Strangelove
Now, about it taking two to play "chicken".
The USA and the USSR had reached a number of agreements to stabilize this "game of chicken" so global nuclear annihilation wouldn't be the final result.
One important agreement was the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, or ABM Treaty. What this treaty did was to limit the number of DEFENSIVE (anti-missile) nuclear weapons, because defensive nuclear weapons can place one side in a position where it can successfully launch a first strike, without fear of retaliation.
Quote:
Signed in 1972, it was in force for the next 30 years. Following the dissolution of the Soviet Union, in 1997 four former Soviet republics agreed with the United States to succeed the USSR's role in the treaty.
During its lifetime, the USA kept poking holes into the spirit of ABM ...
Quote:
On March 23, 1983 Ronald Reagan announced the Strategic Defense Initiative, a research program into ballistic missile defense which would be, "consistent with our obligations under the ABM Treaty". The project was a blow to Yuri Andropov's so-called "peace offensive". Andropov said that "It is time they [Washington] stopped... search[ing] for the best ways of unleashing nuclear war... Engaging in this is not just irresponsible. It is insane".
In 2002, the USA finally killed it completely.
Quote:
In June 2002 the United States withdrew from the treaty, leading to its termination.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty
Another treaty which the USA has been poking holes into is the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty (INF Treaty). THIS treaty
Quote:Missiles falling under this treaty are in the 500-5,500 km range.
eliminated an entire category of nuclear weapons and introduced, for the first time, extensive verification and data exchange mechanisms, including on-site inspections. ... A special clarification, adopted in the spring of 1988 during the ratification process, elaborated that it covered all missiles falling under the definition irrespective of whether they were equipped with nuclear, conventional, or “exotic” warheads.
HOWEVER, just like our treaties with native Americans, the USA govt has a hard time sticking to its agreements.
Quote:
Of explicit relevance to the INF Treaty, Russia accuses the United States of malign intent in moving forward with the deployment of the more capable Aegis Standard Missile-3 (SM-3) Block IIA missile defense interceptors to neighboring Poland ....
Beyond the legal and technical issues is the credibility gap opened by U.S. ... When the Polish missile defense site was planned in 2009, the United States was projecting the near-term possibility that Iranian long-range, nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles could threaten all of Europe.
Yet, with conclusion and implementation of the 2015 Iran nuclear deal and the absence of any long-range missile testing by Iran, that threat has receded far beyond the 2018 deadline for declaring operational more advanced missile defenses in Poland. For Moscow, the continued construction there constitutes confirmation of long-standing suspicions that these systems are directed against Russia rather than Iran.
https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2017-03/features/inf-trea
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Quote:You apparently can't refute the facts of abrogations of various nuclear treaties, so you resort to personal attack, again.
Pfff - more bombast and wordy nothingness from SIGGLESS.
Quote:So, since WE have nukes ... in fact, since WE developed them first and are (to date) the only nation ever to use them in war ... doesn't that make us the instigators of this "game of chicken"?
To simply HAVE a nuke is to play the chicken dance. 1 nuke = chicken dance.
Quote:So therefore, we shouldn't have nukes, since it encourages us to bluff with them?
More significantly is KPO's answer. As usual, he cuts to the heart of it: to let someone bluff with nukes is to encourage every other wannabe mad dictator to get nukes.
*****
I don't know what's more troubling GSTRING, your total one-sidedness, or THUGR'S complete cluelessness:
Quote:Wow, THUGR doesn't even recognize that "calling someones bluff" in a deadly show of bravado is the VERY DEFINITION of the game of chicken!
And there you have it kiki. The last few posts all have a common answer. We aren't playing chicken with Russia. We're calling their bluff.
You guys should get your story straight:
GSTRING, why don't you explain to your idiot friend what a "game of chicken" is.
And then you can explain to all of us why WE should have nukes, but nobody else can.
-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*
And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581
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Quote:Did Putin build his doomsday machine? Is it all empty talk or is Putin eventually giving the American public a tour of his ultimate machine?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:You apparently can't refute the facts of abrogations of various nuclear treaties, so you resort to personal attack, again.
Pfff - more bombast and wordy nothingness from SIGGLESS.
Quote:Did Putin build the machine from the satirical movie Dr. Strangelove?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But Russia doesn't have the multi-front capability of USA+NATO. In the end, if their fairly thin defensive structure is overwhelmed and Russia ITSELF is attacked, perhaps by a USA first strike, Russia has promised that the war won't be fought only on their soil; that they will go nuclear and destroy the USA. That is their last line of defense.
They are so committed to this concept that they have developed (they say) automated submarine missile-launchers which have been quietly positioned off the coasts of the USA, ready to fire nuclear weapons at the USA in the event that their central command is destroyed. A kind of "dead-man's hand" response.
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Oh, there is GSTRING again, being extremely coy about its opinions, and getting all huffy when someone points that out.
So, GSTRING, are you saying that we should ALL get rid of our nuclear weapons, including us?
A yes or no will do.
I predict that GSTRING will refuse to answer the question directly, despite being asked multiple times.
-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*
And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581
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Quote:SECOND, are you being a complete idiot on purpose???
Did Putin build his doomsday machine?
Yes, you must be. That's the only explanation.
Think it thru. And stop using a movie as your template for real life.
-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*
And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581
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Quote:Signym, you mentioned that Putin built a doomsday machine (maybe he did, maybe he didn't, Putin is being coy). If Putin built the "dead-man's hand" you said he did, then he has begun a comically, ridiculously dangerous game of chicken with the whole world, not just the USA, as his victims. The movie Dr. Strangelove mocked Putin's kind of thinking.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:SECOND, are you being a complete idiot on purpose???
Did Putin build his doomsday machine?
Yes, you must be. That's the only explanation.
Think it thru. And stop using a movie as your template for real life.
Quote:Signym, you were presenting Putin's "dead-man's hand" as a good idea. Are you a believer in the myth that "Nuclear weapons are essential for deterrence"?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But Russia doesn't have the multi-front capability of USA+NATO. In the end, if their fairly thin defensive structure is overwhelmed and Russia ITSELF is attacked, perhaps by a USA first strike, Russia has promised that the war won't be fought only on their soil; that they will go nuclear and destroy the USA. That is their last line of defense.
They are so committed to this concept that they have developed (they say) automated submarine missile-launchers which have been quietly positioned off the coasts of the USA, ready to fire nuclear weapons at the USA in the event that their central command is destroyed. A kind of "dead-man's hand" response.
That deterrence myth has nearly killed Putin several times since he was born in 1952. He is lucky to be alive:
http://wavefunction.fieldofscience.com/2017/08/the-bomb-ended-world-wa
r-2-and-other.html
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Things I know to be true...
In 1994, Bill Clinton made a deal which would ensure NK would not get a nuke.
NK got a nuke.
The UN security council voted 15-0 ( yes, Russia and China on board ) to place sanctions on NK for it's hostile acts regarding its missile program.
*Some are trying to claim that it's the USA, not NK, who is " sabre rattling "
* Those who believe that are idiots.
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GSTRING: Oh, boo hoo hoo. So I strawmanned you. And yes, I did it on purpose. For all of the times that you strawmanned me, you got a little of it back. Pobrecito!
Now that THAT'S cleared up, how about putting on your big-boy pants and telling us your opinion: Should EVERYONE get rid of their nuclear weapons?
Yes or no?
Now lets see how often you mange to dodge, deflect, and evade a straight answer.
Select to view spoiler:
coward
-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*
And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581
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Quote:Yes. Everyone gets rid of their nukes. Give me a straight answer: Is this worse than or equal to saber-rattling? "North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen," Trump told reporters at the Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey. Signym picked Trump as the President who comes with a dump truck load of quirks and personality kinks.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Now that THAT'S cleared up, how about putting on your big-boy pants and telling us your opinion: Should EVERYONE get rid of their nuclear weapons?
Yes or no?
Now lets see how often you mange to dodge, deflect, and evade a straight answer.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-warns-nkorea-will-be-met-with-fire-
and-fury-if-threatens-us/ar-AApJjH4
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Quote:Neither NK nor Russia have anything to GAIN from STARTING a nuclear war. And while NK has certainly blustered, their chances of being decimated in a nuclear exchange with the US are 100%, while ours are zero. Meanwhile, Russia has said it will RESPOND to aggression by going nuclear. But the outcome is MAD.
The threat of nuclear war is a tactic used by North Korea and Russia to try and leverage what they want. They hype the threat via government statements and propaganda to try and influence and intimidate Western (and South Korean) public opinion. Russia is more toned-down than North Korea, but it is essentially the same tactic.
The answer is simple.
Tell NK they have nothing to fear from the US. But if they should launch first, they will be blown to ashes.
And stop provoking Russia in an insane game of nuclear chicken.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:The US is sabre rattling in Europe. Despite a half-dozen articles and posts on the topic, and despite the fact that you actually responded to them (did you read any of them at all before you posted?), it looks like you missed the detail about location.
Some are trying to claim that it's the USA, not NK, who is " sabre rattling "
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:The answer is not simple for one reason beyond control: Trump. Trump’s dire threat to North Korea that it risked “fire and fury like the world has never seen” sounded like a threat of nuclear war.
Originally posted by 1kiki:
The answer is simple.
Tell NK they have nothing to fear from the US. But if they should launch first, they will be blown to ashes.
And stop provoking Russia in an insane game of nuclear chicken.
Trump has “unchecked authority to order the use of conventional or nuclear weapons against North Korea,” Bruce G. Blair, a nuclear security expert at Princeton University’s Program on Science and Global Security. said in an e-mail. “I believe that both options are being prepared right now.”
“President Trump has unchecked power over the US nuclear arsenal, which is another reason why deescalation is critical. If conflict erupts, two inexperienced leaders with poor impulse control have nuclear weapons at their fingertips. That is a chilling scenario that the international community would do best to avoid,” said Kelsey Davenport, director for nonproliferation policy at the nonprofit Arms Control Association.
Davenport said Trump’s comments were “ill-advised and inflammatory.”
“Loose talk inciting conflict will only continue to spur North Korea to continue advancing its nuclear and misfile programs. Pressure alone is not going to reduce the threat posed by Pyongyang,” she said, “Talks are necessary.”
www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/08/08/president-trump-does-have-power-o
rder-nuclear-attack/a9MRj6gKeS6yYbdNTYeu8N/story.html
www.businessinsider.com/nuclear-weapons-stockpiles-world-map-2017-8
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Hillary Clinton - threatening countries at every turn because only war brings peace.
https://www.democrats.org/party-platform
North Korea
North Korea is perhaps the most repressive regime on the planet, run by a sadistic dictator. It has conducted several nuclear tests and is attempting to develop the capability to put a nuclear warhead on a long-range missile that could directly threaten the United States. The regime is also responsible for grave human rights abuses against the North Korean people. Yet Donald Trump praises North Korea’s dictator; threatens to abandon our treaty allies, Japan and South Korea; and encourages the proliferation of nuclear weapons in the region. This approach is incoherent and rather than solving a global crisis, would create a new one. Democrats will protect America and our allies, press China to restrain North Korea, and sharpen the choices for Pyongyang to compel it to abandon its illegal nuclear and missile programs.
Asia-Pacific
From the Asia Pacific to the Indian Ocean, we will deepen our relationships in the region with Australia, Japan, New Zealand, the Philippines, South Korea, and Thailand. We will honor our historic commitment to Japan. We will continue to invest in a long-term strategic partnership with India—the world’s largest democracy, a nation of great diversity, and an important Pacific power. We will build on the historic opening with Burma and advocate for greater human rights protections and national reconciliation among Burma’s many different ethnic groups. We will help Pakistan stabilize its polity and build an effective relationship with the predominantly young population of this strategically located, nuclear-armed country. We will also work with our allies and partners to fortify regional institutions and norms as well as protect freedom of the seas in the South China Sea.
Democrats will push back against North Korean aggression and press China to play by the rules. We will stand up to Beijing on unfair trade practices, currency manipulation, censorship of the internet, piracy, and cyberattacks. And we will look for areas of cooperation, including on combatting climate change and nuclear proliferation. We will promote greater respect for human rights, including the rights of Tibetans. We are committed to a “One China” policy and the Taiwan Relations Act and will continue to support a peaceful resolution of Cross-Strait issues that is consistent with the wishes and best interests of the people of Taiwan.
Russia
Russia is engaging in destabilizing actions along its borders, violating Ukraine’s sovereignty and attempting to recreate spheres of influence that undermine American interests. It is also propping up the Assad regime in Syria, which is brutally attacking its own citizens. Donald Trump would overturn more than 50 years of American foreign policy by abandoning NATO partners—countries who help us fight terrorism every day—and embracing Russian President Vladimir Putin instead. We believe in strong alliances and will deter Russian aggression, build European resilience, and protect our NATO allies. We will make it clear to Putin that we are prepared to cooperate with him when it is in our interest—as we did on reducing nuclear stockpiles, ensuring Iran could not obtain a nuclear weapon, sanctioning North Korea, and resupplying our troops in Afghanistan—but we will not hesitate to stand up to Russian aggression. (wherever on the planet we claim it exists - because - we are the world) We will also continue to stand by the Russian people and push the government to respect the fundamental rights of its citizens.
Europe
Europe remains America’s indispensable partner and a cornerstone of global security. Democrats will stand with our European allies and partners to deter Russian a
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Quote:
GSTRING: Oh, boo hoo hoo. So I strawmanned you. And yes, I did it on purpose. For all of the times that you strawmanned me, you got a little of it back. Pobrecito!
Now that THAT'S cleared up, how about putting on your big-boy pants and telling us your opinion: Should EVERYONE get rid of their nuclear weapons?
Yes or no?
Now lets see how often you mange to dodge, deflect, and evade a straight answer.
What a worthless lying... I can't imagine why I would try and talk with someone who can't even explain or defend what they said. Cya- GSTRING
I DID explain. See above!
And yanno, if I was a big of a baby as you, for all of the times that you outright LIED about me, I should have stopped responded to you a year ago.
So, GSTRING, should EVERYONE get rid of their nuclear weapons?
Yes or no?
Now lets see how often you mange to dodge, deflect, and evade a straight answer.
-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*
And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:The US is sabre rattling in Europe. Despite a half-dozen articles and posts on the topic, and despite the fact that you actually responded to them (did you read any of them at all before you posted?), it looks like you missed the detail about location.
Some are trying to claim that it's the USA, not NK, who is " sabre rattling "
Nope, didn't spend 1/2 my day reading the excessive and absurd amount of links, because - work ? life ?
Fine. US is sabre rattling in Europe. Same thing was said during Reagan's era. Worked out pretty well then. Unless we want Russia to roll over more countries, best we not lay down on our backs and spread our legs.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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No matter what awful things happen because of Trump, Hillary is worse in 1kiki's mind than Trump.
Quote:There is an article explaining 1kiki, Signym and AURaptor: How America Lost Its Mind
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hillary Clinton - threatening countries at every turn because only war brings peace.
The nation’s current post-truth moment is the ultimate expression of mind-sets that have made America exceptional throughout its history.
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind
/534231
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
GSTRING: Oh, boo hoo hoo. So I strawmanned you. And yes, I did it on purpose. For all of the times that you strawmanned me, you got a little of it back. Pobrecito!
Now that THAT'S cleared up, how about putting on your big-boy pants and telling us your opinion: Should EVERYONE get rid of their nuclear weapons?
Yes or no?
Now lets see how often you mange to dodge, deflect, and evade a straight answer.
What a worthless lying... I can't imagine why I would try and talk with someone who can't even explain or defend what they said. Cya
==============================
SIG has to admit she was trolling so she passes it off as tit for tat. Only there was no tat. SIG lives in the world of fallacy, presenting false beliefs based on unsound arguments. It's called trolling.
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.
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Hillary is worse than Trump.
Nothing more needs to be said.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hillary is worse than Trump.
Nothing more needs to be said.
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Quote:Did you read How America Lost Its Mind? Your face is in the illustrations as a protester. Be proud! You've been immortalized as Art with a capital A.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hillary is worse than Trump.
Nothing more needs to be said.
The nation’s current post-truth moment is the ultimate expression of mind-sets that have made America exceptional throughout its history.
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind
/534231
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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You are too hard on Trump, AURapture, 1kiki, Signym, etc. They and foreign leaders can’t trust what Trump says. An adversary has no idea whether to take threats from Trump seriously (to say nothing of literally). He’s a man who made empty threats throughout his career, repeatedly suggesting he’d sue people who said and did things he didn’t like. In many cases, he did not follow through. If you’re North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, why should you believe that his threats of force are any more real? Trump’s strategy with North Korea has been compared to Richard Nixon’s “madman theory,” in which the former president wanted enemies to believe he was capable of anything, because he was insane. An equally likely (or even more likely) outcome is that North Korea will conclude that Trump is capable of nothing, based on past results. Big bag of hot air Trump.
www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/trump-makes-his-case-in-p
ittsburgh/501335/
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Hey there SLOPPY SECONDS!
"No matter what awful things happen because of Trump, Hillary is worse in 1kiki's mind than Trump."
Strawman! Try again.
But try and be a little more honest this time.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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So, to get back to our current situation IN REAL LIFE ...
No politician (not even Saint Hillary) has treated NK as anything less than a political opportunity to boost their own brand by taking aim at the country. But enough about NK. It's not a real problem, though it sure is good advertising.
In the background, the RUSSIA !!! program is moving forward, which is far more dangerous.
More later.
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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Quote:
She definitely subscribes to the concept of lying as a standard form of communication and a perfectly acceptable way to achieve one's goals. Selfish and small to say the least.- GSTRING
Well then, GSTRING, speak up for yourself man! Tell us what you think!
Should EVERYONE get rid of their nuclear weapons?
Yes or no?
Now lets see how often you mange to dodge, deflect, and evade a straight answer.
-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*
And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581
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Quote:OMFG. GSTRING can actually engage in a topical discussion, and not just troll! Whooda thunk?
She definitely subscribes to the concept of lying as a standard form of communication and a perfectly acceptable way to achieve one's goals. Selfish and small to say the least.- GSTRING]
Well then, GSTRING, speak up for yourself man! Tell us what you think!
Should EVERYONE get rid of their nuclear weapons?
Yes or no?
Now lets see how often you mange to dodge, deflect, and evade a straight answer.- SIGNY
I haven't *answered* because it's unanswerable. It's. A. Stupid. Question. Should everyone be honest? The "answer" is the same for both. Sure! "But what about if being honest kills someone?" Uhhhh... and on and on. Your question as stated is worthless and doesn't acknowledge how much difficulty and nuance and subtly and variations there are to the subject.
Quote:Too bad! I have some questions about what you said! But you refuse to discuss anything like an adult.
It will be my pleasure to ignore all your further attempts at a response.- GSTRING
-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*
And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:Did you read How America Lost Its Mind? Your face is in the illustrations as a protester. Be proud! You've been immortalized as Art with a capital A.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hillary is worse than Trump.
Nothing more needs to be said.
The nation’s current post-truth moment is the ultimate expression of mind-sets that have made America exceptional throughout its history.
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/how-america-lost-its-mind
/534231
Pretty impossible as I've never protested anything.
The illegal immigration crisis has been 30+ years in the making. More , actually, since the '86 Immigration bill was itself a ' after the fact' lame attempt to deal w/ the problem back then. And that law was every bit a sham as the efforts are today, the ACA, and damn near every domestic policy that's come out of D.C. since the 60's.
But keep ignoring the problem. I'm sure you'll wake up one day and everything will be awesome !
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hillary is worse than Trump.
Yeah, we suck mightily - there was no great choice (an obvious one for me, but still not great).
Just for fun: If Hillary's daughter had met with Russians because they sent her an email "we have dirt on Trump" and then she lied about it, and then she lied several more times about who was there, and others in her family lied, and her campaign manager lied, and then Hillary's AG lied about meeting with Russians, and then she had to fire her appointed head of national security because he'd been meeting with Russians... and lied about it and then Hillary fired the head of the FBI because he was looking into her connections with Russians that she'd lied about... you see where I'm going, right? She'd be long gone by now.
==============================
Hillary lied about actual matters, concerning Benghazi ( where Americans got killed ) about her private server ( illegal ) about the handling of top secret documents ( hacked by many , not just " Russians " ) , about 10's of 1000's of e-mails she was SUPPOSE to hand over, as they were property of the US Government , and she destroyed, which is...oh, a FEDERAL CRIME.....
Everyone met w/ Russians, for all manner of reasons. So fucking what ? You're being bat shit crazy about this, and I'm getting pretty fucking sick of the Left / #NeverTrumpers ignoring real crimes while trying to blame others for things which aren't illegal.
Get the fuck over it. Hillary LOST.
Now suck it up and admit Trump is President. YOUR President.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:Trump’s staff don’t even see him as President. They see him as Problem:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Now suck it up and admit Trump is President. YOUR President.
White House officials take issue with “people on TV who know nothing about North Korea” interpreting Trump’s “fire & fury” as nuclear escalation.
Goodness. How could the MSM interpret “fire and fury like the world has never seen” as a nuclear attack? Trump was just talking about, um, a new and improved kind of napalm.
Meanwhile, Rex Tillerson is telling us that the US is totally willing to talk things over with the North Koreans: “I think the president just wanted to be clear to the North Korean regime that the U.S. has the unquestionable ability to defend itself, will defend itself and its allies, and I think it was important that he deliver that message to avoid any miscalculation on their part.”
Trump’s just some doddering, senile old fool wetting himself or crapping in his pants in public. His staff has to clean his clothes and give him a bath to rid the world of Trump’s stink.
Shall we watch Trump do it again?
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Quote:Continuing the theme of saber rattling and Trump: Fact-checking Donald Trump's misleading tweet about U.S. nuclear arsenal
Originally posted by G:
That IS the problem - he's our president. I could give a rat's pa-tootie about Hillary. Fine, put her on trial. The problem I have with Trump is ALL about Trump. I get tired of pro Trumpers thinking hating an obvious compulsive liar has something to do with a friggin' professional politician (liar) democrat losing an election. Get the fuck over it and stop using Hillary or Obama as a shield or an excuse. YOUR president is a global embarrassment, a lying PoS.
www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/aug/09/donald-trump/u
nder-donald-trump-us-nuclear-arsenal-far-stronger/
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hillary Clinton - threatening countries at every turn because only war brings peace.
"Democrats will push back against North Korean aggression and press China to play by the rules."
Donald Trump just threatened N Korea with "fire and fury" but you're right, the language in the Dem's platform is more provocative
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Get the fuck over it. Hillary LOST.
Now suck it up and admit Trump is President. YOUR President.
That IS the problem - he's our president. I could give a rat's pa-tootie about Hillary. Fine, put her on trial. The problem I have with Trump is ALL about Trump. I get tired of pro Trumpers thinking hating an obvious compulsive liar has something to do with a friggin' professional politician (liar) democrat losing an election. Get the fuck over it and stop using Hillary or Obama as a shield or an excuse. YOUR president is a global embarrassment, a lying PoS.
==============================
He's your president too. Get over yourself.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Should EVERYONE get rid of their nuclear weapons?
Yes or no?
If everyone does it? Sure. But I don't know in what world you think Russia, N Korea, Israel, etc would give up theirs.
Bit of a pointless question really?
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:
And stop provoking Russia in an insane game of nuclear chicken.
Bring me up to speed. The insane provocation of Russia is...? I dealt with the whole NATO expansion thing in the Putin's long game thread. So what else? Sanctions on Russia for its aggression in Ukraine? Sanctions and confiscation of its diplomatic/spy compounds for its election meddling? Your imagined CIA coup in Ukraine? Some Soros-funded Clinton-led conspiracy to overthrow Putin?
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Get the fuck over it. Hillary LOST.
Now suck it up and admit Trump is President. YOUR President.
That IS the problem - he's our president. I could give a rat's pa-tootie about Hillary. Fine, put her on trial. The problem I have with Trump is ALL about Trump. I get tired of pro Trumpers thinking hating an obvious compulsive liar has something to do with a friggin' professional politician (liar) democrat losing an election. Get the fuck over it and stop using Hillary or Obama as a shield or an excuse. YOUR president is a global embarrassment, a lying PoS.
==============================
He's your president too. Get over yourself.
Try reading today maybe? I said, "he's our president" right there, in English.
==============================
I just quoted you. Read the last sentence. You even put it in caps.
Quote:
YOUR president is a global embarrassment, a lying PoS.
My reading is just fine.
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Get the fuck over it. Hillary LOST.
Now suck it up and admit Trump is President. YOUR President.
That IS the problem - he's our president. I could give a rat's pa-tootie about Hillary. Fine, put her on trial. The problem I have with Trump is ALL about Trump. I get tired of pro Trumpers thinking hating an obvious compulsive liar has something to do with a friggin' professional politician (liar) democrat losing an election. Get the fuck over it and stop using Hillary or Obama as a shield or an excuse. YOUR president is a global embarrassment, a lying PoS.
==============================
Ya didn't mind the obvious compulsive liar that was Hillary or Obama, so why the hell should you worry about it now ? Complete double standard, only to date, NONE of Trump's comments have involved massive new tax burdens and blatant fabrications on policy.
I don't give a damn about the globe, as long as Trump delivers on his policy. Damaged goods that he is, we didn't elect a freaking choir boy.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:From Scientific American: Donald Trump said he aspires to be “unpredictable” in how he might use nuclear weapons and Trump can do it all by himself without consulting anybody. Even in the unlikely event that Russia launched a preemptive attack on the U.S. — and had more nuclear capability than current international agreements allow for — it “would have little to no effect on the U.S. assured second-strike capabilities.” That conclusion suggests that we will have ample firepower even if two or more people discuss how to use it. But Trump does not have to talk to anyone about anything before it's bombs away.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Ya didn't mind the obvious compulsive liar that was Hillary or Obama, so why the hell should you worry about it now ? Complete double standard, only to date, NONE of Trump's comments have involved massive new tax burdens and blatant fabrications on policy.
I don't give a damn about the globe, as long as Trump delivers on his policy. Damaged goods that he is, we didn't elect a freaking choir boy.
www.scientificamerican.com/article/no-one-should-have-sole-authority-t
o-launch-a-nuclear-attack/
Trump issued a new threat to North Korea on Thursday, demanding that Kim Jong Un’s government “get their act together” or face extraordinary trouble. He said his previous “fire and fury” warning to Pyongyang might have been too mild.
“Maybe that statement wasn’t tough enough,” Trump said. “Things will happen to them like they never thought possible, OK?” It is so good to know that such a rock-steady man has his finger on the button.
https://apnews.com/74ed5e07efc94759ba335a51e80de6dc/In-new-threat,-Tru
mp-demands-NKorea-%27get-their-act-together%27
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I think Trump will play crazy against a crazy guy like Kim, but at the end of the day, he'll listen to the likes of Mattis, whom he ( Trump ) respects immensely.
I do share Trump's view, that NK has been playing the US, over the past 20+ years, and now we're at a point where we are BECAUSE of the sins of inaction , by both D's and R's.
New sheriff in town.
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Quote:The new sheriff is about to meet the guy who kills sheriffs for a living: Meet Kim Jong-un, Moody Young Man With Nuclear Arms
Originally posted by AURaptor:
New sheriff in town.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/meet-kim-jong-un-moody-young-man-with-nuc
lear-arms/ar-AApQ6YI
As Inara said to Mal, "You cannot handle this man."
The Man, the Operative, came damn close to killing them all.
Kim Jong-un, the 33-year-old leader of North Korea, has long been underestimated. Mr. Kim was the youngest of three sons yet leapfrogged his brothers to succeed his father, Kim Jong-il. Many analysts dismissed him as an inexperienced figurehead when he took power at 27; some predicted he would never last. But almost six years later, there is little doubt he is firmly in control.
“He moved quickly and ruthlessly,” said Daniel A. Pinkston, a Seoul-based professor of international relations at Troy University. “I think most people did not expect a man so young to be so proficient at managing his dictatorship.”
South Korean intelligence officials say Mr. Kim has executed scores of senior officials, including his own uncle, a wily power broker who had been seen as his mentor. He is also assumed to have ordered the assassination of his half brother, who was poisoned by VX nerve agent at the Kuala Lumpur International Airport in Malaysia in February.
“Smart, pragmatic, decisive,” Andrei Lankov, a North Korea expert at Kookmin University in Seoul, said of Mr. Kim. “But also capricious, moody and ready to kill easily.”
One subject on which Mr. Kim has not wavered is the nuclear program. His father held out the possibility of scrapping the program in return for economic aid and security guarantees and even struck a deal with the Clinton administration, though the North later violated it. But Mr. Kim has taken a more aggressive approach.
Three of North Korea’s five nuclear tests have come under his watch, and there are signs that the country is preparing for another one. North Korea has also conducted about 80 missile tests under Mr. Kim, more than twice as many as under his father and grandfather combined.
Outside North Korea, many assumed Mr. Kim was the supreme leader in name only, with real power in the hands of Jang Song-thaek, his uncle and regent. Mr. Jang appeared to help his nephew carry out a systematic purge, replacing many of the nation’s most powerful generals and bureaucrats, according to South Korean intelligence officials.
But two years into his rule, Mr. Kim moved against his uncle, too, arranging for him to be arrested by uniformed officers during a Politburo meeting while hundreds of party delegates watched. Mr. Jang was executed on charges that included clapping “halfheartedly” when Mr. Kim entered the room and plotting to overthrow him.
Cheong Seong-chang, an expert on the Kim family at the Sejong Institute, said high-level North Korean defectors told him that Mr. Jang had as many as 20 children and that Mr. Kim had them all killed.
The purge continued with a new focus on rooting out those loyal to Mr. Jang. Many were executed with antiaircraft machine guns after members of the ruling elite were brought in by trucks to be witnesses, South Korean intelligence officials said.
“Kim Jong-un is here to rule for decades, playing the long game,” said Mr. Koh, the Dongguk University professor. “Over time, he believes that the world will have no option but to accept his country as a nuclear power.”
Analysts say it may be difficult for Mr. Kim to back down in the face of foreign pressure, especially on the nuclear issue, given how closely he is associated with the program.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I think Trump will play crazy against a crazy guy like Kim, but at the end of the day, he'll listen to the likes of Mattis, whom he ( Trump ) respects immensely.
I do share Trump's view, that NK has been playing the US, over the past 20+ years, and now we're at a point where we are BECAUSE of the sins of inaction , by both D's and R's.
New sheriff in town.
I largely agree with the assessment of past administrations kicking the can down the road. But at some point the calculus becomes "we're better off living with a nuclear N Korea than going to war with them". I think we're probably several years past that point.
I'm not sure what Trump's crazy rhetoric is supposed to achieve. Does anyone think that the N Koreans are going to be bluffed into halting or abandoning their nuclear program? It's another example of our new sheriff 'speaking loudly and carrying a small stick'.
And guys, can we all just take a moment to feel sorry for 1kiki? She started this thread on nuclear brinksmanship to argue about how we should stop being mean to Russia, but in the end we're all just talking about N Korea
-------------------------------------------------------
"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."
Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Syrian regime collusion with ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521
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Trump's ' crazy ' talk has yielded the UN in yet another 15-0 resolution against Lil' Kim. Yes, Russia and China are on board. Also, it's been reported that China will risk a financial hit in backing the UN resolution over siding w/ the fat kid.
Actions, folks, speak louder than words. While Trump is waving with his right hand, making noise and all, the media are totally oblivious to what's actually happening.
Why ? Oh, I think we know the reason for that.
" Our job tonight is to actually scare people to death on this subject "
Fucking REALLY ???
Was that what the media were saying about Kennedy, back during the Cuban Missile Crisis ? We the anchors admonishing this young, know nothing kid of a President that putting a blockade around a sovereign nation is an aggressive move ? That we should just sit back and accept a nuclear launching pad for Soviet missiles in Cuba ??
Shows how truly un-American todays media are w/ regards to Trump and his policies.
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Quote:How many resolutions has the UN passed? 2371. None made a damn bit difference to Kim.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Trump's ' crazy ' talk has yielded the UN in yet another 15-0 resolution against Lil' Kim. Yes, Russia and China are on board. Also, it's been reported that China will risk a financial hit in backing the UN resolution over siding w/ the fat kid.
www.un.org/en/sc/documents/resolutions/
The latest UN resolution on Korea is 2371. I bet Kim is not really intimidated: http://bit.ly/2vtw0lx
How much trade between South Korea and America? $112 billion in 2016.
How much trade between North Korea and the entire World? About nothing.
Trade sanctions make no damn difference to Kim. But Kim could stop trade between S Korea and US.
If Trump goes to war with Kim, Kim will attack S Korea. Trade with S Korea is the US weakness.
www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5800.html
Trump Is 'Locked and Loaded' in a Nuclear Game of Chicken. I think Trump is the Chicken because the US stands to lose $112 billion per year in trade with South Korea if it attacks while Kim stands to lose his life if he gives up on A-bombs.
www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/08/trump-locked-loaded-
north-korea/536541/
Trump's choices are either kill Kim or else continue saber rattling and trading with South Korea.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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62% of Americans think N Korea is a very serious threat (compare with ISIS at 64%)
77% think N Korea has a missile that could hit the USA
50% favor America taking military action against N Korea
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2017/images/08/08/rel7b.-.north.korea.pdf
Similarly, in 2003
70% of Americans believed that Saddam was involved in 9-11
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/09/06/hussein-lin
k-to-911-lingers-in-many-minds/7cd31079-21d1-42cf-8651-b67e93350fde/
93% of Americans believed that Saddam had WMD-manufacturing facilities (before the war), and after the war 86% still believed that Saddam has WMD facilties, although no WMD were used during the war and none were found (except leftovers from 1983)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/8623/americans-still-think-iraq-had-weapons
-mass-destruction-before-war.aspx
N Korea has visibly tested missiles, whose range is getting longer and longer. N Korea has also done nuclear tests. The question is whether N Korea can package a nuclear weapon into a warhead small enough to fit onto a missile.
EVEN IF it has, this threat and counter-threat is a non-productive approach. It really is a game of "chicken", and those games don't end well unless somebody backs down, and it doesn't look lie anybody will back down. We really need to find another way.
-----------
By the way, GSTRING, I predicted your response PERFECTLY
* ... and then you'll say I'm "too wordy". And then you will - as always- refuse to address the pertinent points, and respond with even more lies and even more bullshit personal attacks.*
And voila! Here it is http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61835&mid=1
035581#1035581
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Quote:I predict Trump is the chicken for the rest of his term in office. I'm not adding any caveats or conditions. Trump is hot air and wild threats with no guts. If I'm wrong about Trump I'll say now what I would say then: "Oops. So sorry Samsung, Hyundai and LG have gone out of business in the Trump/Kim War."
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The question is whether N Korea can package a nuclear weapon into a warhead small enough to fit onto a missile.
EVEN IF it has, this threat and counter-threat is a non-productive approach. It really is a game of "chicken", and those games don't end well unless somebody backs down, and it doesn't look like anybody will back down. We really need to find another way.
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/11/16119606/trump-north-korea-i
mprovise
China has helpfully given Trump cover for his chicken heart: “If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime, and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so,” reported the Global Times, a daily Chinese newspaper controlled by the Communist Party.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-pledges-neutrality-unless-us-strike
s-north-korea-first/ar-AApR3VE
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Trump
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
" Our job tonight is to actually scare people to death on this subject "
Fucking REALLY ???
Well that was pretty horrific. Did you see Andrea Mitchell's reaction?? Whoa! She was visibly shaking her heard, totally disgusted.
I think you're mistaken if you think Brian Williams at 11pm on a cable news channel because he was fired from his prime time slot is the poster boy or pillar of our free press. Yes, 'if it bleeds it leads' will always play favorites, but is there anything more American than that? Don't tell me Fux is all about the News.
==============================
This is the M.O. for msnbc though...
Our job is to control what you think - Mika.
Our job is to scare the hell out of your - Brian.
Which fits nicely into the over all mantra of the Leftist Dems...
" It takes a long time... to control the people " John Dingell ( D )
" Govt is the only thing we that all belong to " - DNC video
YOU CAN'T TAKE THE SKY FROM ME !
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Wow SIG, and you said Hillary was the war monger. What an ass you are. Maybe, Maybe SIG, someday you will be right about something.
Trump threatens Venezuela with 'military option'
U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday threatened military intervention in Venezuela, a surprise escalation in Washington's response to Venezuela's political crisis.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-threatens-venezuela-with-mil
itary-option/ar-AApTMLD?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=BHEA000
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
George Carlin once refeered to this as "The bigger dick" foreign policy.
I think this is playing out now with Trump.
I see some envy going on here...
Point is, Trump is just saying what needs being said.
But Trump... he's CRAZY !!!
Sod off.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
AU, you can tell me to sod off all you want. But I do not want to see the world blown up by either of these nuts. Kim or Trump.
And I am still entitled to my opinion or to repeat the opinion of a comedian.
Yes you are Brenda. Just as long as the Trumps, Putins, communist slash socialist, and hard right nuts we have here are kept in check.
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Quote:While both have run their mouths for years, Trump and AURaptor should have always known the following, but I don't think either ever will:
Originally posted by Brenda:
No worries THG. I've been told to sod off by a lot of people over the years. Just ticks me off is all.
Although he’s done little to discourage the world from viewing him as a wild-eyed warmonger, Kim Jong Un is well aware that using his nuclear arsenal would trigger an instantaneous U.S. retaliation that would bring a catastrophic end to his regime. At the same time, he witnessed what happened to Saddam Hussein and Moammar Gadhafi after they stopped pursuing weapons of mass destruction. There’s no retirement plan for North Korean dictators, no cushy corporate board appointments, no lucrative circuit of speaking engagements. The survival of his regime is a matter of life and death for Kim, and his nuclear arsenal is his life insurance policy.
So North Korea is unlikely to abandon its nuclear weapons, but Kim is unlikely to use them. Containment and deterrence of North Korea are not appealing options. During the Cold War many condemned those approaches as passive, immoral, and defeatist, but in fact they were none of those then, and would be none of those now.
www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/The-waiting-game-1
1757353.php
Containment worked for the U.S. in the Cold War confrontation against an adversary much more formidable than North Korea. The playbook that was written more than a half-century ago can work again today. Instead of behaving like Kim, President Trump needs to start acting like a Cold War leader who's not only willing to confront a nuclear adversary, but also willing to wait and watch its failing government fall from within.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
AU, you can tell me to sod off all you want. But I do not want to see the world blown up by either of these nuts. Kim or Trump.
And I am still entitled to my opinion or to repeat the opinion of a comedian.
Kim has been doing this sort of stuff and building up his arsenal long before Trump even started to run.
Take Trump out of the equation here, and just be honest and sober for 1 moment. Do you HONESTLY believe NK poses no threat to Japan, S.Korea and the USA ? KJU has been building up to this moment, and isn't planning on stopping , even as the UN slaps sanctions on him, even as his biggest ally, China, refuses to take his side, and will admittedly choose to take a financial hit in order to see NK brought to heel...
This isn't about TRUMP !!!
Clinton back in '94 basically made a deal to pay off NK if they stopped producing nuclear weaponry. NK took our $, and still went ahead w/ the process of making nukes. ( Same as Iran, btw... but that's a different topic ) Bush and Obama are also complicit in allowing this to carry on, and then we FINALLY have a President who isn't going to take crap any more.
NK fires off 4 rockets, as they threaten, over Japan and towards Guam, you HONESTLY going to blame Trump ??
That right there is true insanity.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:Wrong.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
This isn't about TRUMP !!!
That right there is true insanity.
1) China's President Xi Jinping said there needs to be a peaceful resolution to the North Korean nuclear issue, and in a telephone call with U.S. President Donald Trump he urged all sides to avoid words or action that raise tensions.
www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-idUSKBN1AO011
If Trump does not settle this peacefully, China has threatened him:
2) “If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime, and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so,” reported the Global Times, a daily Chinese newspaper controlled by the Communist Party.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-pledges-neutrality-unless-us-strike
s-north-korea-first/ar-AApR3VE
That leaves Trump with only one choice that does not end with massive death:
3) Containment worked for the U.S. in the Cold War confrontation against the Soviet Union and it will work against North Korea.
4) Trump isn't smart but he is a chicken. After squawking, he will choose containment.
4.5) If Trump does not chicken out, we won't be getting any shiny Samsung electronics for Christmas. North Korea will pulverize the Samsung factories.
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Quote:Yes, I honestly believe that. I don't salivate like Pavlov's dog every time some warmongering president starts beating the war drums.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Take Trump out of the equation here, and just be honest and sober for 1 moment. Do you HONESTLY believe NK poses no threat to Japan, S.Korea and the USA ?
Bush was full of shit about Iraq. Even YOU must admit that by now. Trump, an even stupider and even less competent idiot, is even more full of shit.
North Korea is NO threat to this country, any more than Iraq was. We killed and maimed millions so some rich guys could get richer. There's nothing more to America's military adventures than that.
War is a racket. We are a militaristic empire. That's all it is.
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Quote:War is far weirder than that. The logic of nukes would be for America to demand France disarm its H-bombs, scuttle its four missile launching submarines and shutdown its reactors. But America is friends with France. Why confront France? Because America is friends only with countries the President says it is friends with. Remember Freedom fries replacing French fries because France's opposition to the proposed invasion of Iraq? A President goes funny in the head and suddenly America could be threatening "fire and fury" on Paris.
Originally posted by reaverfan:
War is a racket. We are a militaristic empire. That's all it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction
Please don't let Trump see the Leftovers episode where a French sub fires all its missiles because he'd go crazy.
This episode starts with a nuclear weapon being detonated. By the French, no less. (Okay, by a rogue Frenchman, but it's still one of the country’s bombs.) The opening sequence with this explosion is a great one, a little bit silly, a little bit scary, and brimming with creativity. You can tell that The Leftovers’ writers have really thought about how one man could launch a nuclear missile, and then come up with a sequence that shows their ideas off with panache.
www.vox.com/culture/2017/5/14/15632530/leftovers-season-3-episode-5-re
cap-matt-matt-world
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/nuclear-expert-consid
ers-risks-of-conflict-with-north-korea/
Scientific American asks a Nuclear Expert: If Trump sought your advice on North Korea, what would you say?
Wellerstein: I think Trump in general could benefit greatly just by learning to empathize with other human beings. It appears to be a core character defect of his, and it’s a scary thing given how much of policy is about understanding consequences, and that typically requires empathy. For nuclear matters it is absolutely essential: you need to be able to understand what the other fellow is likely to do, what they are attempting to accomplish, what they will see their “options” as being.
It is clear that the North Koreans see the development of a nuclear deterrent against the United States as an existential issue. They are probably not wrong about that — the US has a reputation for causing a lot of trouble with regimes it judges as being against its interests, but it gives nuclear-armed states wide latitude. As the North Koreans have developed a mostly credible capability to threaten the cities of our allies, and maybe even our own cities, then the time of trying to imagine a non-nuclear North Korea has probably passed for the time being (maybe someday in the long future, when they feel less threatened, we can imagine such a thing).
That doesn’t mean they are likely to attack the USA. They aren’t. They know that to do so would be suicidal. We need to make clear what conditions would result in unacceptable results for them, and they need to make clear the same for us. In both cases, there need to be options that, while not ideal, can be lived with, e.g., the North Koreans can’t think that starting a war with South Korea would be acceptable, and we shouldn’t think that we can force them to change their regime or get rid of their weapons. For deterrence to work, it requires the “alternative” to the use of weapons to be at least somewhat acceptable. This very basic idea seems not to be something Trump understands; his transactional, “deal” way of thinking doesn’t seem to allow for mutually beneficial solutions, or even mutually-good-enough solutions.
North Korea does not seem any more irrational than any other state with nuclear weapons, and we have managed to make do with fairly irrational, nuclear-armed states before (when China got the bomb in the early 1960s, it was in the middle of the Cultural Revolution, and pretty far from a stable, rational state). But if you force them into a corner, if they think that their central government is in imminent danger of “decapitation,” they may do something rash.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:Quote:Yes, I honestly believe that. I don't salivate like Pavlov's dog every time some warmongering president starts beating the war drums.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Take Trump out of the equation here, and just be honest and sober for 1 moment. Do you HONESTLY believe NK poses no threat to Japan, S.Korea and the USA ?
Bush was full of shit about Iraq. Even YOU must admit that by now. Trump, an even stupider and even less competent idiot, is even more full of shit.
North Korea is NO threat to this country, any more than Iraq was. We killed and maimed millions so some rich guys could get richer. There's nothing more to America's military adventures than that.
War is a racket. We are a militaristic empire. That's all it is.
Then you're flat out wrong, and naively so.
As for Bush and Iraq, I don't admit he was wrong to do something about it, I do agree his methodology was a failure.
We didn't kill and maim millions. You're flat out delusional.
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:Wrong.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
This isn't about TRUMP !!!
That right there is true insanity.
1) China's President Xi Jinping said there needs to be a peaceful resolution to the North Korean nuclear issue, and in a telephone call with U.S. President Donald Trump he urged all sides to avoid words or action that raise tensions.
www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-idUSKBN1AO011
If Trump does not settle this peacefully, China has threatened him:
Sorry, not wrong. Of course everyone is going to aim for peaceful solution. But saying that and actually meaning it aren't always the same thing.
China willing to 'pay a price' for stronger North Korea sanctions - http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/08/asia/china-north-korea-sanctions/index.h
tml
Quote:
2) “If the U.S. and South Korea carry out strikes and try to overthrow the North Korean regime, and change the political pattern of the Korean Peninsula, China will prevent them from doing so,” reported the Global Times, a daily Chinese newspaper controlled by the Communist Party.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-pledges-neutrality-unless-us-strike
s-north-korea-first/ar-AApR3VE
An opinion piece written about a hypothetical that's about as unlikely to happen as anything. Ever. The US hasn't been, nor is remotely thinking of a 'first strike ' if NK doesn't fire missiles at Guam, Hawaii, or worse, the West coast.
Quote:
That leaves Trump with only one choice that does not end with massive death:
It's not his choice alone to make.
Quote:
3) Containment worked for the U.S. in the Cold War confrontation against the Soviet Union and it will work against North Korea.
That's naïve thinking right there.
Quote:
4) Trump isn't smart but he is a chicken. After squawking, he will choose containment.
Trump has already shown he'll use military force, w / regards to Syria and chemical weapons being used on civilians. Or did you forget about that already ?
Quote:
4.5) If Trump does not chicken out, we won't be getting any shiny Samsung electronics for Christmas. North Korea will pulverize the Samsung factories
NK has been threatening to do that for a while now. They've shelled civilian homes, sank S.Korean fishing vessels, and continued to provoke and threaten. The US, S.Korea, Japan... just want to go about their business. It's unreasonable beyond every measure that we just allow Lil Kim to keep firing off missiles, one after another, and do nothing about it.
I'm glad we've got a real leader in the WH , after 8 years of apologizing, bowing and wearing mom-jeans.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:Making empty threats is Trump's basic mode of action:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'm glad we've got a real leader in the WH , after 8 years of apologizing, bowing and wearing mom-jeans.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Then you're flat out wrong, and naively so.
As for Bush and Iraq, I don't admit he was wrong to do something about it, I do agree his methodology was a failure.
We didn't kill and maim millions. You're flat out delusional.
Your denial of easily-verified facts is proof you're delusional. You live in a fantasy world.
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Quote:Both sides of the political spectrum suffer from the delusion malady. Trying to argue from a factual basis - or even just pointing out that there are no facts to a claim - is an invitation to get trolled. Yes, you troll people who are trying to discuss facts, RF, as do your neo-liberal cronies. You really should find comradeship with Rappy, you share so much.
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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The US is sabre rattling --- again. The question is, will the US people fall for it --- again.
lest we lose sight of the real enemy, here's a reminder from your friendly propagand ... media
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2017/08/europe/russia-decoded/
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/08/11/russia-decoded-putin-sd
g-lon-orig.cnn
http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/08/11/russia-decoded-media-sd
g-lon-orig.cnn
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-campaign-emails-show-aid
es-repeated-efforts-to-set-up-russia-meetings/2017/08/14/54d08da6-7dc2-11e7-83c7-5bd5460f0d7e_story.html
Trump is not the problem. He set himself against the Deep State's agenda. And the Deep State's been heading for WWIII for years.
As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot, furthering its agenda. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.
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In a forceful speech on Tuesday, South Korean President Moon Jae-in asserted the right to veto any military action against Kim Jong Un’s regime, saying that decision should be made by “ourselves and not by anyone else.”
He vowed to prevent war at any cost — a statement that drew a sharp contrast with President Donald Trump, who has warned of “fire and fury” if North Korea continues to threaten the U.S.
Even worse for Moon, some U.S. officials have signaled that they’d be willing to tolerate collateral damage in Seoul to protect the American homeland from a nuclear attack. Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a Republican, told NBC News that Trump told him that “if thousands die, they’re going to die over there.”
Seoul’s 10 million people are within firing range of North Korea’s artillery, and would be likely to suffer the brunt of the first retaliatory blows in a U.S. strike.
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-15/moon-vents-korea-frustratio
n-by-asserting-right-to-veto-u-s-war
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Where did North Korea get its missile technology?
Originally posted by 1kiki:
lest we lose sight of the real enemy, here's a reminder from your friendlypropagand... media
A new media report claims North Korea was able to develop its missile system after buying rocket engines on the black market in Ukraine. Kyiv denies the link. In this international mystery, the clues lead to Russia.
www.dw.com/en/where-did-north-korea-get-its-missile-technology/a-40107
204
Elleman has analyzed North Korean medium-range and intercontinental ballistic missiles of the Hwasong 12 and 14 types, whose extended range holds the potential to hit the United States. He concluded that the surprisingly fast development in the last two years has only been possible with the help of foreign suppliers, meaning countries from the former Soviet Union. Even the German missile expert Robert Schmucker from the Technical University of Munich (TUM) agreed with Elleman's analysis, although he avoided any explicit accusations.
Experts believe that the one-chamber engine used in the latest Hwasong missiles is reminiscent of the Soviet RD-250 rocket engine, which had two chambers and was developed in the 1960s.
It is difficult to prove whether the RD-250 was also manufactured by Yuzhmash. Vitaly Zushtchevski said that they received these engines from Russia, where they were "produced in low quantities." Elleman suggested that they were also made in Ukraine. In his IISS study, he wrote that "hundreds, if not more" RD-250 engines have remained in Russia, as well as in Ukraine, adding it is also possible that Moscow is Pyongyang's supplier.
Observers in Kyiv believe that the New York Times article may be part of a targeted campaign by Russia. In an analysis published on Tuesday, the Center for Army, Conversion and Disarmament Studies (CACDS) in Kyiv wrote that the US publication shows "signs of an information attack on Ukraine." Among other things, the aim of the article is apparently to divert attention from Russia's "own missile technology shipments to North Korea" and to discredit Ukraine, especially in the eyes of the US.
"Russia shares a border with North Korea, so one can deliver anything, even entire engines," said Mykhailo Samus, the CACDS deputy director for international affairs. Ukraine, on the other hand, would have logistical problems, he said.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Who is doing the sabre rattling?
all of them
its all of them sabre rattling again, and Bolton's 1st day
clip here, might need to refresh or may need to change your player setting on the browser 640 X 360 webm mp4 1280 X 720 mp4
https://hooktube.com/watch?v=cSGf2ZpDENU
Tucker: Would war against Assad make US safer?
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If Bolton/Trump start a war, doesn't that mean Trump will get re-elected?
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