Kaylee Video link
POSTED BY: ManiacNumberOne
UPDATED: Sunday, November 14, 2004 15:20
VIEWED: 21957
PAGE 8 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:Quote:
I was denied by Nia.
Nia's taken down her entire site, and so have I, and so has Debchan, and so have the other FF vidders that I know. I have a new FF vid I'm not going to release, and so does Silvia, and so does Shelia, and three other vidders who had vids in progress have stopped working on their vids due in part to what has happened here and what happened on the TWoP board with our vids being burned to CD and distributed without our prior knowledge. Just thinking about it makes my stomach hurt. I'm extremely upset. When I think about posting my new vid, my stomach hurts even more. I'm going to share it with a few friends, and that's it. I have lost my ability to trust people in the fandom that I don't already know very well.
Here's the thing.
Fandom is a community just like the real world. There are things that are, and are not, considered (by most) to be socially acceptable. Common sense and respect are always, always, the best things to use when dealing with other fans. We've all gotten pretty angry over the last couple of days and that's a very sad thing to have happen in such a normally tight-knit community of fans. We all LOVE the show. We've stuck together through some rough times. That doesn't mean we are all going to agree, or get along all the time. But we should try to treat each other with at least a modicum of respect.
Underneath the screen names of Nia, Elke, Bonibaru, Maniac, etc - we are real people with real feelings. We are not just words on a computer screen. We are not just clips set to music. I don't have any obligation to share my "Hallelujah" vid. I did so because I loved the show and I thought that other fans who loved the show would enjoy seeing the vid as an expression of that love for the show.
I am very careful to keep my website, where the vids are posted, out of the eyes of the powers-that-be of the shows I vid to. I go to extra measures to do this, to keep it off of search engines, etc. I am also careful to keep it out of the eyes of the recording artists - you know, the people who shut down Napster - because honestly, I'd be even more worried about getting a nasty legal notice from the guy who's song I used without permission, whether I have disclaimers all over the place or not. Your website is not necessarily as well protected as Nia's, which may be why she does not want you to post the vid there. I don't really feel that's unreasonable for her.
The entire point of being in a fandom community is: we share with each other. We share stories, screen caps, transcripts, thoughts, etc etc because we WANT to. Not respecting the wishes of the people producing these fannish works of art - who invest our time, money, energy, enthusiasm, into this, does not make us want to share. Exposing us to potential legal action, threatening us, implying that we lose any right to say what happens to our work and where it goes once we put it on the internet, does not make them want to keep sharing.
I have felt really betrayed by not only what's happened over the last couple of days regarding mine and others' vids, but by the attitude that I've seen in some of the FF fans - that I don't have a right to request that my vid not be put online anywhere but my site, that it not be brought to the attention of TPTB, etc. The idea that everyone else is ENTITLED to take it and do what they want with it. That is hurtful to me and I feel betrayed by the Firefly fans. I think Nia probably has too. What you did, you did out of ignorance, that's true (and I don't mean that as an insult e.g. "you're ignorant", I mean it as "you didn't know not to". I understand that.
But when a person resorts to name calling and personal insults, that person loses credibility. When fellow fans start dictating to me that I have no rights over the artwork I have worked very hard to make, and should not expect to be treated with respect and courtesy, it is devastating.
People judge the FF fandom on the behavior of
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I think the time has passed for taking a deep breath and turning the other cheek. Someone has reported Nia to her ISP. I can only assume this was in revenge.
My vids, screen captures and Firefly media files (like the Good Morning Live segement and the one fron TechTV) are gone from my domain and will NEVER come back. The other Firefly vids I'm working on will never be released. I know several other vidders who are removing their vids from their sites even as we speak. I know of at least two other vidders who will never release the Firefly vids they've made.
Good job, guys. Congrats on making Firefly fandom a place where no one feels safe.
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This must be what the start of a war feels like. 
Should people with fanfiction sites also worry?
Bruce (BK) (the irregular)
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Quote:
Posted by Debchan:
I notice this site has all sorts of copyright material on it; screen captures, scripts, and video files. Does the site owner have permission from Mutant Enemy and Fox?
Oh, don’t go there.
Boy, this is blown out of proportion. I hope everyone argues as passionately for a solution to end world hunger as they do to make sure someone gets proper credit or not or whatever for fan vids.
And Elketanzer honey, I just got your e-mail. Thanks for keeping it off the message board, but I can’t find an e-mail to write you back, so being my hypocritical self, I’m writing you back on the message board. No I wasn’t offended by your message in the least, but I’ve got a whole long bit to say, so if you give me your e-mail address, I’d love to continue this conversation. Here’s my e-mail- abbynormalartist@yahoo.com.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle
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Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
[BHere's how it went down:
I found a great vid.
A few weeks later I saw someone wanted it on the taglog.
I posted saying I had it and would be happy to share, *(as it was unlabelled to creator).
I posted it on my site.
This is me. And most of me wants to take credit for this whole damn debacle for even asking to see one in the first place.
I'm sorry. Great big kowtowing apologies to every actual vidder who now refuses to post any more vids. I only ever got to see 4 and they were all shiny. I regret that I won't be able to see more. If I could change it--even by gettin' all bendy-- I would.
Great big kowtowing apologies to my men, Maniac and Succatash for starting y'all down this trail. And maybe for not piping up sooner. Though I really don't think my opinion is worth anything. But I was the one who asked to see vids and now here we are.
That said: everybody, with the exception of Phil and Kaythryn, is taking themselves way too seriously. I understand that there are legal issues. Yes. Let the fandom (I'm actually starting to think of them as fan-cliques: flicks) not become embroiled in legal issues. Otherwise, all y'all calm down.
Again, apolgies. Won't happen again, Sir.
Sarah
I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case
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This is just a general response.
If anyone is not familiar with what can happen with someone defending their copywright and trademarks in fandom, I suggest researching the Pern fandom. Anne McCaffrey is the author of the Dragonriders of Pern series. She and her legal advisors have very very actively defended their copywrights and trademarks. They even sold all gaming rights to another company, which includes informal RPs and if you dont follow their rules, they will shut you down. Theres lots of info floating around on the net pertaining to this. some of it is at www.burnedforfandom.org
With that in mind, I have been known to borrow some screencaps and whatnot to create other things (and if you dont already know what these other things are and want specifics, email me). I do not claim ownership to any of these 'things' and I do credit (when I know who to credit) the rightful owners of such parent material, no matter what the finished result is. Like I always credit Fox et al and Mutant Enemy for any screencaps. I still take that risk of getting my site shut down.
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I wish I was a jellyfish because jellyfish dont pay rent.
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Quote:
None of those reasons, at least for me.
First: It takes several weeks to make a music video - it's a long and -painstaking process. You don't throw one together in a few hours (not and have it be any good). So no person who is not a true fan is going to bother to take that time.
I don't think that's true. I've been a fan of BtVS and Joss Whedon since 1999, although I never watched Firefly(but I heard good things about it). Guess I should've, huh?
I've never made a fanvid, but I do enjoy them and not having made one does not make me any less of a fan than you or anyone else. In fact, most people that I know have told me that I'm absessed with BtVS and Angel. They're not wrong. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, you can be a "true fan" of something without ever writing a bit of fanfic or ever making a vid about it. For example, I consider myself a true fan of Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern series, but, per her request, I don't write and post fanfic about her books(outside of already-sanctioned clubs). So I don't appreciate the insinuation(no wait-blatant statement) that just because someone has no interest in making vids or lacks the ability and/or software to do so, means that they are not a true fan.
Buffy: "One more word out of you, and I swear..."
Spike: "Swear what? You're not gonna do anything to me. You don't have the stones."
Buffy: "Oh, I've got the stones. I've got a whole bunch of...stones."
Spike: "Yeah? You're all talk."
Buffy: "Giles! I accidentally killed Spike! That's ok, right?"
Buffy and Spike argue in "Something Blue"
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My friend had made some fan videos for Buffy (and anyone who's been in Buffy fandom knows that if Fox finds you out, they will hunt you down). She had let others mirror/put up some of her videos and when FOX sent a cease and desist order to her, she complied and shut down her site.
When the leagel beagles went to make sure, they tagged the sites that had mirrored videos and she had to go to court because they thought that she had gotten other people to host her things.
So that's why it's good to ask those who make videos to host them. If they say no, you understand. Not only that, but people also like traffic to their websites. Just food for thought. Glad that everything seems to be clearing up.
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A standard disclaimer is usually fine. Joss Loves Fanfiction (he's said so in severel interviews) so you're okay.
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