Cinema

Arrival

POSTED BY: ecgordon
UPDATED: Sunday, August 27, 2017 21:42
VIEWED: 13443
PAGE 9 of 10

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Monday, May 8, 2017 8:46 PM

Continuation of posts from last week.

This post contains SPOILERS!!!

The first clear future viewing comes after Louise gets her second booster shot (because she took off her Hazmat suit) - prior to this she only had distracting sounds from the future scenes, not clear visual.

Col Weber directs Louise it is time to ask the big question.
Louise asks what is purpose, heptapods on Earth? Abbott is not present for question, only Costello. Ian asks about this, then Abbott appears as Costello is giving answer to question.
Answer from Costello is Offer weapon.
Abrupt transition to tent, talking with the CIA idjit.
This is apparently the first time a session ended early, so security team has opportunity to plant bomb without anybody seeing them.

When bomb is set for 10 minutes, both Abbott and Costello are at the glass.
Louise and Ian return, arriving with about 4:30 on the bomb timer. This is 270 seconds before detonation. The run time of the film elapses about 274 seconds during this sequence, so the playback time is almost aligned with the countdown time of the scene. Other glimpses of the bomb display will be at 2:40, and 50 seconds and around 10 seconds.

Louise asks Offer weapon question mark.
reply translation displays as:
visitors/friends/heptapods
offer/give/donate/award
technology/apparatus/method

Louise: give technology now. Abbott starts thumping/tapping on the barrier, beconning Louise to the barrier. Bomb time is 2:40. Louise puts her hands on barrier, then one hand while Abbott has the tip of his touching also, and Louise gets her clear vision of her baby in the crib. Then Louise uses one hand to create half of the response while Abbott shares creation with other half of sign - this takes from about 1:30 down to 1:20 on bomb countdown. Costello leaves the barrier at 50 seconds. Abbott starts producing the 1 of 12 display, after Costello left.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, May 9, 2017 8:32 PM

So why is Louise Banks the savior of humanity?

She was Col Weber's third choice, behind Danvers of Berkley and Dr. Walker, the original team leader, who seemed to get medevacced out as she arrived.

She likely was the first human of the 12 sites to remove her BioHazMat suit, showing eagerness and courage to interact better with the heptapods. Not much info if any other human besides Ian did so during their month of visits.

I did notice that the sessions last less than 2 hours, and the shell opens once every 18 hours. For 12 sites, this means that Abbott & Costello are not the only visitor pair on Earth (with their time manipulation, if it were 2 hours of 24 sites, they could have.) It is still possible that Abbott and Costello are doing 3 sites, one after another, while Bam Bam and Deano are a pair doing 3 other sites, and then Abbott and Bam Bam do a few sites together while Costello and Deano rest, and so on.

Anyhow, Louise along with Ian are given a second set of booster shots after they remove their BioHazMat suits, and then Louise makes great progress and advances in her translations, and immersion. Side effects of the boosters are supposed to be "hallucinations" IIRC.

Louise might be the first human to ask our friends what is their purpose on Earth.
Louise does seem to be the first person to ask what is meant by Offer weapon, and more importantly, the first (only?) human to state "Give technology now" after which she is immediately beckoned and gets the weapon transferred to her.

Also, despite Louise knowing that Hannah will die before full adulthood, she chooses to proceed with the birth of her daughter, so that Hannah will save humanity. Thus the entire film seems to be the redemption of Hannah Donnelly. To some degree, Hannah and Abbott are the casualties of First Contact between Humans and Xenospecies.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Monday, May 15, 2017 12:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Continuation of posts from last week.

This post contains SPOILERS!!!

Louise: give technology now. Abbott starts thumping/tapping on the barrier, beconning Louise to the barrier. Bomb time is 2:40. Louise puts her hands on barrier, then one hand while Abbott has the tip of his touching also, and Louise gets her clear vision of her baby in the crib. Then Louise uses one hand to create half of the response while Abbott shares creation with other half of sign - this takes from about 1:30 down to 1:20 on bomb countdown. Costello leaves the barrier at 50 seconds. Abbott starts producing the 1 of 12 display.

Regarding the tapping/thumping of Abbott on the barrier. The first few times I saw this, I fell for the red herring of interspersing cuts of the bomb countdown with Abbott tapping, and Louise and Ian befuddled or perplexed. I had thought Abbott was trying to warn them about the bomb, in the classic sense of Lassie trying to explain to the dumb humans that Tommy is in trouble. I suspect this was an intentional ruse by the filmmaker.
I now believe this was Abbott's direct response to Louise's message "Give technology now" and even though Abbott likely knew it would mean his death, his sacrifice was of utmost importance in getting to Louise the "weapon" immediately after she was the first human to ask for it, and this was the sole/primary purpose of their Arrival on Earth in this time.

This is one reason that I am trying to lay out in some detail what the sequence of the scenes and lines are, because the cause-and-effect sequence seems so important.

Back to the opening of the film. The narration seemed somewhat puzzling the first few times, merely a hint of things to come.
Louise says" Memory is a strange thing, doesn't work like I think it did, we are bound by time, by it's order."
"I used to think this was the beginning of your story"

OK, I think I got all of that down now, sorry for stretching it all out. I had time restrictions. I do hope this clarifies things for discussion.
Any further comments?

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Wednesday, May 17, 2017 7:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I still feel uncomfortable with the issue of Louise deciding to have the daughter who will knowingly have a terminal illness before procreating. Does this seem like having a dog, picking one out of the shelter to live with, expending it's entire life within the confines of your own life? Is this selfish of her? She is certainly not expunging the pain her daughter endures.

After watching again, I feel I should retract this comment.

Louise understood that Hannah was critical to the success of the Arrival translation, and that Abbott had given his life because it was so important, and the least Louise could do was let Hannah exist so she could also help.

A comment was made about Hannah and Abbott having a connection. But I think it was Louise and Abbott - they both knew they were sacrificing something, his life and Hannah's.

SHINYGOODGUY

Wednesday, May 17, 2017 3:09 PM

Okay, I could accept your new found meaning within the film, but I took from it something a little different.

Louise was grateful, both for her time on Earth with Hannah and Abbott. Hannah because she came to appreciate whatever contribution she made in her life as a mom, and Abbott for learning how to communicate with her fellow man. Yes, it sounds corny and altruistic, but that's the extent of her contribution, her part of the life cycle.

It is a metaphor for how to live, grateful for the time we have here on Earth with our loved ones. Sci-fi, as I have stated many times before, is a commentary on our existence here on this planet. It is a parable of sorts. A story of the human condition.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I still feel uncomfortable with the issue of Louise deciding to have the daughter who will knowingly have a terminal illness before procreating. Does this seem like having a dog, picking one out of the shelter to live with, expending it's entire life within the confines of your own life? Is this selfish of her? She is certainly not expunging the pain her daughter endures.

After watching again, I feel I should retract this comment.

Louise understood that Hannah was critical to the success of the Arrival translation, and that Abbott had given his life because it was so important, and the least Louise could do was let Hannah exist so she could also help.

A comment was made about Hannah and Abbott having a connection. But I think it was Louise and Abbott - they both knew they were sacrificing something, his life and Hannah's.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, May 18, 2017 5:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Sci-fi, as I have stated many times before, is a commentary on our existence here on this planet. It is a parable of sorts. A story of the human condition.

SGG

I know you have said this, I have refrained from comment.

However, in the example of this film, Arrival is a very endearing case for your statement.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, May 18, 2017 6:38 AM

More comments from watching again.

THIS POST CONTAINS SPOILERS!!

I am going to discuss the confusion I had from the first viewing, and those following. Louise states at the beginning that she thought that the beginning of Hannah's story was at Hannah's birth, but then she realized Hannah's story started on the day the Shell left. By the time she sees Hannah's birth in the future, she has already experienced the Arrival of The Shell, and meeting the Friendly heptapods.

So when she says she used to think the birth of Hannah was the beginning of Hannah's story, it does not make logical sense. Having already experienced The Arrival, she already knows that is not true because of all the scenes we see in the film.

So Louise's statement that she used to think that Hannah's story began at Hannah's birth make me assume that Louise already had the ability to manipulate or "open" time. Her prior visions of Hannah's birth would make her assume these scenes were the beginning of Hannah's Life Story, because The Arrival had not yet happened. But now we can see from the film that Louise really did not previously see the future. So her statement really makes no logical sense that I can now see.
Anyhow, early in this thread I argued that Louise already had the ability to manipulate time, and this was the reason I thought such evidence had been presented in the film.
I think this is the only plot or story hole I have found in Arrival.

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Something just came to mind as I was reading your response. It's about Hannah.
Now bear with me on this, I have to go back to the film to see if my thought, or theory, is correct.

SGG

Okay, I re-watched the ending.
Quote:
At the film opening, Louise narrates "I thought this was the beginning of your story" while displaying the newborn daughter. But this may imply that the beginning of the daughter's story was her helping Louise solve the translation of the Arrivals, which then joined Ian and Louise, producing the daughter Hannah, who then helps mom in the future solve the problem now. Hannah's helping mom Louise is needed for this history to work out.

I didn't think that was really a secret - remember how they spelled her name forward and backward a few times? I thought they were spoonfeeding us the foreshadowing there, or the explanation.

Ooops. This was at the end, the finishing montage - so foreshadowing does not apply for a single viewing.

Quote:

There was also, in that scene toward the end with Louise and her daughter, as she was coloring, a play-doh Heptapod was on the table. Although I remembered seeing this each time I viewed the film, I never put it to mind that maybe, just maybe Hannah was also sensitive to the Heptapods (perhaps Abbott?).

SGG

Hannah's drawings: TV Show Mommy and Daddy Talk to Animals at 59:40, again with Play-Do at 1:31:15, and 1:49:42, and again with Play-Do at 1:50:04.

Also, Louise does get a concussion from the bomb blast, so this may also effect her ability to "open time" with Costello.

The bomb goes off in he 36th session. if Louise's first session was 0800 on Friday, then the 36th would be 1400-1600 on Saturday, 30 days later.

SHINYGOODGUY

Thursday, May 18, 2017 2:48 PM

You're on the right track, but here's how I see it now....it's starting to make sense now. The beginning of Hannah's story is when the shell arrives and the Colonel comes to get her. That's the number 1 reason why she meets Hannah's father.
That's the beginning of Louise's ability to open time and see the future.

So it does make sense. It is the beginning of Hannah's story for the two main reasons above - Louise meets her husband and she gains the "sight" to see the future, where she first meets Hannah. At first, the flashes of memory are all about Hannah and Louise's relationship with her daughter. When she first starts to talk about Hannah, she is referring to something she already saw and she's describing
how she felt as she experiences everything all over again. Remember she's experiencing time like the Heptapods......it is non-linear, a kind of loop that allows her to experience time all at once.

She both sees it happening simultaneously and in linear fashion, like most humans experience time. For Louise, words trigger these experiences in time. She uses all her senses to feel the experience. When she hugs Ian and she sees Hannah, she closes her eyes and she can see her as though it were happening at that moment. Louise is recounting the story of her Hannah, because she can "open" time and she has already experienced it.

It is a fascinating concept (one that was explored in Fringe with the Observers).

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
More comments from watching again.

THIS POST CONTAINS SPOILERS!!

I am going to discuss the confusion I had from the first viewing, and those following. Louise states at the beginning that she thought that the beginning of Hannah's story was at Hannah's birth, but then she realized Hannah's story started on the day the Shell left. By the time she sees Hannah's birth in the future, she has already experienced the Arrival of The Shell, and meeting the Friendly heptapods.

So when she says she used to think the birth of Hannah was the beginning of Hannah's story, it does not make logical sense. Having already experienced The Arrival, she already knows that is not true because of all the scenes we see in the film.

So Louise's statement that she used to think that Hannah's story began at Hannah's birth make me assume that Louise already had the ability to manipulate or "open" time. Her prior visions of Hannah's birth would make her assume these scenes were the beginning of Hannah's Life Story, because The Arrival had not yet happened. But now we can see from the film that Louise really did not previously see the future. So her statement really makes no logical sense that I can now see.
Anyhow, early in this thread I argued that Louise already had the ability to manipulate time, and this was the reason I thought such evidence had been presented in the film.
I think this is the only plot or story hole I have found in Arrival.

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Something just came to mind as I was reading your response. It's about Hannah.
Now bear with me on this, I have to go back to the film to see if my thought, or theory, is correct.

SGG

Okay, I re-watched the ending.
Quote:
At the film opening, Louise narrates "I thought this was the beginning of your story" while displaying the newborn daughter. But this may imply that the beginning of the daughter's story was her helping Louise solve the translation of the Arrivals, which then joined Ian and Louise, producing the daughter Hannah, who then helps mom in the future solve the problem now. Hannah's helping mom Louise is needed for this history to work out.

I didn't think that was really a secret - remember how they spelled her name forward and backward a few times? I thought they were spoonfeeding

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JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, May 19, 2017 5:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
More comments from watching again.

THIS POST CONTAINS SPOILERS!!

Also, Louise does get a concussion from the bomb blast, so this may also effect her ability to "open time" with Costello.

One part I had missed until just my most recent viewing: after the bomb, in the tent, when Louise wonders why is she forced to talk to this CIA Idjit, she sees the future right there. She sees the pod coming down from the shell, and also her hands amidst the ink from Costello, but the pod has not come out of the shell yet, until she exits the tent and goes toward the shell. This seems to be the first incident of Louise interactively working with her gift, in current real time.
I had never recognized this as a future vision, I just comingled the scenes and sequence by mistake.

Another scene, with Ian asking her about immersion in language changing the way a person thinks. Now I wonder if this was a real world scene, of if it is a dream scene of Louise's - with Abbott in her trailer with her. I had seen the heptapod as a dream portion, but had not recognized that the whole scene with Ian and the included discussion as being dream as well.

I had also not specifically noted that the Heptapods also have 7 points to their extremities, in addition to 7 "legs" that we see.

I'm not sure of the significance of Costello leaving during the 3rd session with Louise, after Abbott and Costello give their names. The first session she wondered if she was fired. The second session Louise writes Human and gets the first sign that any human has gotten in response. The third session Louise removes her suit, puts her hand to the barrier in the nave, gets a reply, and Ian also removes his BioHazMat suit and writes his name. I wonder if Costello leaves to report on the progress with these humans. The third session seems to be the first session that Col Weber watches from the tent, via remote monitor.

Ian is apparently coming from Los Alamos, so Louise seems to be somewhere in between there and Montana.

I also am not sure of any significance of the ceiling shots for transition. Ceilings are shown at Louise' house, the archway at her college, in the antechamber of the Shell. The lines in the ceilings seem similar.

I also looked for triggers of what brought Louise back to present, or what launched her to future visions. I did not find any visual or audio connections.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, May 25, 2017 4:36 AM

I'm hoping I have not posted too much spoilery stuff. I'll need to watch Arrival a few more times at least, to get my fix.