Arrival
POSTED BY: ecgordon
UPDATED: Sunday, August 27, 2017 21:42
VIEWED: 13443
PAGE 7 of 10
Quote:now now now now
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey JSF,
There's no need to apologize. I always refer back to my previous postings, especially when it comes to film, to refresh my memory as to my point of view or argument. Plus you actually posed a perfectly good question.
I will ask for a bit of patience though, as I am at work and it's been kind of busy. I will return soon (within a day or two) to finish my thought(s) regarding Arrival and to answer your question.
SGG
You can work when you're dead, right?
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Another item to ponder, and you might marinate in.
The heptopods use a written language which Louise learns to read and write. She also states that their audio communication does not seem to have a relation to the written messages from them. I didn't get the impression that she was able to communicate with them in their audio mode, but I am not certain of this.
The heptopods demonstrate that they can understand our written language and also our audio language, and we might assume this is this the case around the world, in each region where they have arrived.
I was wondering if there was some sort of disconnect involved for them here, which contributed to the mistranslation of "weapon" - but now I also consider that they have had much more time to comprehend our language, having met us in the future (unless our holocaust from world combat has depleted our supply of Earth-based languages before they meet us.)
Now I haven't decided where I'm going with this, but these are points which may prove pertinent to our (my) understanding of this storyline.
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Work when I'm dead.............Ha!
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:now now now now
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey JSF,
There's no need to apologize. I always refer back to my previous postings, especially when it comes to film, to refresh my memory as to my point of view or argument. Plus you actually posed a perfectly good question.
I will ask for a bit of patience though, as I am at work and it's been kind of busy. I will return soon (within a day or two) to finish my thought(s) regarding Arrival and to answer your question.
SGG
You can work when you're dead, right?
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I'm going to attempt to answer your question and comment on what I think may have been communicated in this film.
I'm assuming you have seen the film more than once, so here it goes:
I got the feeling that Louise, as she exposed herself more and more to our friends Abbott & Costello, that she was becoming more aware of her ability
to absorb time displacement. It's probably why the visitors "landed" in the 12 areas around the world. The aliens knew that in each area they would find a kindred spirit open to the manipulation of time, or better put, the perception of time from their point of view.
I noticed that each time Louise would come upon a problem that needed solving, her daughter, whom she had an incredible bond with, would appear in her "memory" and guide her mom through the "looking glass." I don't think that she was able to understand the audio portion of their communication, but as we neared the end of the film, you could see that she was fluent in
conveying her thoughts through the written medium. The fact that they could understand our spoken, or audio, language shows, as you correctly stated, that they have been exposed to humans at some point.
As the story unfolded, it became clear that they have been here on Earth before and knew that Louise was a communication vessel, or better still, a "weapon" by which they could help humans. Same goes for the Chinese General, who was open to the possibilities.
There's more, but I'm just too tired.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Another item to ponder, and you might marinate in.
The heptopods use a written language which Louise learns to read and write. She also states that their audio communication does not seem to have a relation to the written messages from them. I didn't get the impression that she was able to communicate with them in their audio mode, but I am not certain of this.
The heptopods demonstrate that they can understand our written language and also our audio language, and we might assume this is this the case around the world, in each region where they have arrived.
I was wondering if there was some sort of disconnect involved for them here, which contributed to the mistranslation of "weapon" - but now I also consider that they have had much more time to comprehend our language, having met us in the future (unless our holocaust from world combat has depleted our supply of Earth-based languages before they meet us.)
Now I haven't decided where I'm going with this, but these are points which may prove pertinent to our (my) understanding of this storyline.
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Quote:Alas, I have ony seen it a few times, and do not own it yet - hopefully next month.
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Another item to ponder, and you might marinate in.
The heptopods use a written language which Louise learns to read and write. She also states that their audio communication does not seem to have a relation to the written messages from them. I didn't get the impression that she was able to communicate with them in their audio mode, but I am not certain of this.
The heptopods demonstrate that they can understand our written language and also our audio language, and we might assume this is this the case around the world, in each region where they have arrived.
I was wondering if there was some sort of disconnect involved for them here, which contributed to the mistranslation of "weapon" - but now I also consider that they have had much more time to comprehend our language, having met us in the future (unless our holocaust from world combat has depleted our supply of Earth-based languages before they meet us.)
Now I haven't decided where I'm going with this, but these are points which may prove pertinent to our (my) understanding of this storyline.
I'm going to attempt to answer your question and comment on what I think may have been communicated in this film.
I'm assuming you have seen the film more than once, so here it goes:
Quote:I don't recall any evidence that there was anybody other than Louise who had this ability, this weapon. Certainly nobody else intervened with the General in order to save the world. It sounded like other sites had Chess Masters and Game Masters to interact with the heptapods, maybe only a few of them engaged a person of Louise's field - and remember, Louise (the single most right person to solve this issue) WAS NOT THE FIRST CHOICE!
I got the feeling that Louise, as she exposed herself more and more to our friends Abbott & Costello, that she was becoming more aware of her ability
to absorb time displacement. It's probably why the visitors "landed" in the 12 areas around the world. The aliens knew that in each area they would find a kindred spirit open to the manipulation of time, or better put, the perception of time from their point of view.
Quote:In her final conversation with them, when they conveyed her alone up to their higher perch, did she not achieve total immersion and understand them without complete reliance upon their writing? There was no glass wall between them at that point, was there?
I noticed that each time Louise would come upon a problem that needed solving, her daughter, whom she had an incredible bond with, would appear in her "memory" and guide her mom through the "looking glass." I don't think that she was able to understand the audio portion of their communication,
Quote:They also understood our written form, apparently, and yet did not communicate with us that way, instead forcing Louise to adapt to their written form.
but as we neared the end of the film, you could see that she was fluent in
conveying her thoughts through the written medium. The fact that they could understand our spoken, or audio, language shows, as you correctly stated, that they have been exposed to humans at some point.
Quote:I did not see evidence that the General was open to anything, other than the strong convincing of Louise. Only at the party, something like a year later, did the General seem mellowed out, after his year-ago response to Louise turned out to save the world.
As the story unfolded, it became clear that they have been here on Earth before and knew that Louise was a communication vessel, or better still, a "weapon" by which they could help humans. Same goes for the Chinese General, who was open to the possibilities.
Quote:
There's more, but I'm just too tired.
SGG
Anyhow, the primary question I still
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Quote:
Alas, I have ony seen it a few times, and do not own it yet - hopefully next month.
I saw it once in the theater and twice at home, and each time I felt that I understood it better. It's truly a well-crafted film, it almost felt like a good book where the author takes you on a journey without giving everything away.
Quote:
I don't recall any evidence that there was anybody other than Louise who had this ability, this weapon. Certainly nobody else intervened with the General in order to save the world. It sounded like other sites had Chess Masters and Game Masters to interact with the heptapods, maybe only a few of them engaged a person of Louise's field - and remember, Louise (the single most right person to solve this issue) WAS NOT THE FIRST CHOICE!
Well, in this instance I broke my own rules when it comes to film storytelling; which is: only use what is on the screen and don't make things up to fit the story.
I just assumed that since there were 12 ships; and each ship had a message, that
there were more than one. But I tend to think that you're right, especially since Louise is the language expert, plus I believe she was "gifted" with the special
ability of communicating with the aliens. There is also the fact that the heptapods experience time differently than we do. I do not remember about Louise not being the first choice. This movie has so many layers, it's fantastic.
Quote:
In her final conversation with them, when they conveyed her alone up to their higher perch, did she not achieve total immersion and understand them without complete reliance upon their writing? There was no glass wall between them at that point, was there?
Yes, I agree she was totally immersed in her ability to communicate with them. I meant at first she could not understand, but I felt that her connection to them opened up her ability further each time she would meet with them and they reached her telepathically. In essence, she absorbed their abilities and concept of time. They reached her on a molecular level (there's no evidence of that, just a thought that popped into my head).
Quote:
They also understood our written form, apparently, and yet did not communicate with us that way, instead forcing Louise to adapt to their written form.
That was the only thing that felt like a plot hole to me, but they are intelligent aliens and their intellects superior to our own. What was needed was a natural resource.
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Quote:I was referring to Whitaker's first visit to Louise in her office, where she failed to impress him or deflect to him adequately, then the Colonel picked the guy from Berkley (who claimed to speak a language, but could not provide a translation/definition for their word for "war"), and then that guy apparently was evacuated in the bio-med chamber as Louise arrived, as she was the second attempt at a translator. Unless I have misunderstood all of that.
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:I do not remember about Louise not being the first choice. This movie has so many layers, it's fantastic.
I don't recall any evidence that there was anybody other than Louise who had this ability, this weapon. Certainly nobody else intervened with the General in order to save the world. It sounded like other sites had Chess Masters and Game Masters to interact with the heptapods, maybe only a few of them engaged a person of Louise's field - and remember, Louise (the single most right person to solve this issue) WAS NOT THE FIRST CHOICE!
Quote:I'm thinking telepathy would be a chemical level, the human brain functioning on electrical signals sourced by the brain chemistry.Quote:Yes, I agree she was totally immersed in her ability to communicate with them. I meant at first she could not understand, but I felt that her connection to them opened up her ability further each time she would meet with them and they reached her telepathically. In essence, she absorbed their abilities and concept of time. They reached her on a molecular level (there's no evidence of that, just a thought that popped into my head).
In her final conversation with them, when they conveyed her alone up to their higher perch, did she not achieve total immersion and understand them without complete reliance upon their writing? There was no glass wall between them at that point, was there?
Quote:You don't think them forcing Louise to learn their form of communication/language was a devious plot development? (not devious in a bad way).Quote:That was the only thing that felt like a plot hole to me, but they are intelligent aliens and their intellects superior to our own. What was needed was a natural resource.
They also understood our written form, apparently, and yet did not communicate with us that way, instead forcing Louise to adapt to their written form.
Anyhow: What term did Abbott or Costello intend to use which Louise mistranslated as "weapon" - what specific term?
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Quote:
You don't think them forcing Louise to learn their form of communication/language was a devious plot development? (not devious in a bad way).
Well, it could be considered "devious", but I tend to think it is the aliens only way of communicating; but too, they are far more advanced than humans; that and their ability to travel to any point in time, gives them the advantage. I don't believe that they are dangerous, mainly because - it is implied - they are advanced creatures. Intellectually and emotionally superior and advanced over us humans. So they feel their form of communication is best.
Quote:
Anyhow: What term did Abbott or Costello intend to use which Louise mistranslated as "weapon" - what specific term?
It is at the very beginning of the film that Ian reads from Louise's book and quotes her: that language is the first weapon drawn in a conflict. At first she doesn't "see" it, but by movie's end she becomes aware. I misunderstood it until I saw the film a second and third time. Then I understood it.
SGG
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Wish ECGORDON were still here posting. I liked seeing what he was up to. 
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Quote:When you encounter a person not equal to your intellectual abilities, do you find the best way to communicate is to lower your language or vocabulary to their level, or to talk over their heads and expect them to pick up on your meaning?
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:Well, it could be considered "devious", but I tend to think it is the aliens only way of communicating; but too, they are far more advanced than humans; that and their ability to travel to any point in time, gives them the advantage. I don't believe that they are dangerous, mainly because - it is implied - they are advanced creatures. Intellectually and emotionally superior and advanced over us humans. So they feel their form of communication is best.
You don't think them forcing Louise to learn their form of communication/language was a devious plot development? (not devious in a bad way).
Quote:Quote:It is at the very beginning of the film that Ian reads from Louise's book and quotes her: that language is the first weapon drawn in a conflict. At first she doesn't "see" it, but by movie's end she becomes aware. I misunderstood it until I saw the film a second and third time. Then I understood it.
Anyhow: What term did Abbott or Costello intend to use which Louise mistranslated as "weapon" - what specific term?
SGG
OK, now I get it. When they said "Use YOUR weapon," I was looking right at the weapon word, not realizing the importance of YOUR when directed at Louise. Good catch.
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