Cinema

Arrival

POSTED BY: ecgordon
UPDATED: Sunday, August 27, 2017 21:42
VIEWED: 13443
PAGE 4 of 10

SHINYGOODGUY

Friday, December 2, 2016 2:17 PM

I can't honestly give you a good response because I need to see it again. From what you say in your spoiler section, I would need to see it again. It was obvious Louise was unaware of her power until further into the film and as she became more aware.

There is so much to this film that I'm beginning to think that it is indeed a masterpiece and needs several viewings for capturing the multiple themes and revelations. Much like Inception and Cloud Atlas, this film needs more time.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey JSF, I'm basing my response primarily on your comments in the SPOILER SECTION of your response:

Here's the thought I had about the whole "use your weapon" motif within the film: I believe it had to do with the language barrier and how she was able to decipher their language; it was the reason for Louise's presence; although, at first, I did think it had to do with a weapon in the traditional sense. That right there has me more than curious about reading the short story, even more so. The film premise was that she had this gift and that the aliens knew this and went back in time to begin that process.
It is an interesting concept within the film, and I liked how they developed
it within the context of the film.

What I wonder about is, was this something within the short story or was it a
plot devise installed by the director? Reading the story would go a long way in clearing that up. Either way, it is a brilliant piece of the puzzle. The time element is key and a central focus, although we are given little in the way of evidence to allow us to deduce the outcome.
I thought one giveaway was the opening narration by Louise but you needed to keep it in mind during the rest of the film. Another was where her daughter talks about her teaching the language of the aliens (as a child), and also makes playdough aliens as a child.
The part about her dad treating her differently because mom so cruelly told him about her destiny, that didn't fit in place until the time non-linearity became clear.
Quote:

Again, I thought it was
an interesting choice by the director and how he trusted the audience to "fill in the blanks." Remember, there are certain ground rules in sci-fi
and, ever since I first saw "The Day the Earth Stood Still" I was made aware
of them. Sci-fi as social commentary as to humankind's current situation and how it is not as it appears on the surface.

One thing I am not clear on, is how the child figured in all of this.
Although you follow this sentence with others, it is here that I have lost your meaning. What are you trying to say here, or ask?
Quote:

I took that part of the film to be about our, silly humans, concept and perception of time. How we spend our time with family, friends, learning, living etc.
I got the feeling that Louise learned a valuable lesson (Louise as us, the audience) about the importance of our loved ones, in addition to, how truly valuable our time is. Arrival is, to me, a commentary about several things, including how silly we humans are when it comes to our suspicion of others that don't exactly look, act, talk and walk like us. But too, how much alike we are when we strip away those "language" barriers we construct.

You may have a point about her development of her "weapon" and that her relationship to her daughter and the time she spent with her was key in
her sharpening her skill as a linguist, thereby allowing her to be open to
the aliens form of communication.

here I think we are on different paths.
Select to view spoiler:
the weapon they refer to is her ability to manipulate time. The honing of this time manipulation for her is done while jumping forward to the time when she has a daughter, and practicing this pleasurable pasttime. I wonder at what age did she discover that she had (or will have) a daughter. Imagine one day you awake and learn you have a kid -

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ZEEK

Friday, December 2, 2016 8:51 PM

Select to view spoiler:

Why do you guys think she had some sort of power? I didn't see any indication of that. She explained that when you immerse yourself in another language you begin to experience things as that culture experiences things. I thought that was that whole point. She immersed herself in the alien language and learned to perceive as they do.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, December 4, 2016 2:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Select to view spoiler:
Why do you guys think she had some sort of power? I didn't see any indication of that. She explained that when you immerse yourself in another language you begin to experience things as that culture experiences things. I thought that was that whole point. She immersed herself in the alien language and learned to perceive as they do.

Thank you for using the spoiler function.
Because I find the subject I will mention to be pivotal and surprising to an unaware audience viewer, I will continue to use the same function when discussing this particular facet of the film.

Select to view spoiler:

They refer to her "weapon" and early in the process she explains the imprecise meanings of weapons, tools, etc. To them, her "weapon" is her ability to manipulate time. Whatever term they are actually using, it is translated as "weapon" and they must not realize that we are interpreting it incorrectly - unless they do actually think of it as a weapon (which I find unlikely based upon their knowledge, and avoidance of aggressive behavior).
This skill/gift of hers is the key to everything, including how to contact (for one) the Chinese General, and how to convince him (for another), as well as how she learns the language - note that she learns the language by remembering into the future (when she is teaching a class on the language).
I think that SGG and many others are assuming that her "weapon" is her "ability" to learn language, or immerse herself into culture, instead of her gift of time manipulation, which engenders all of the other tasks that she can perform with it.
The aliens arrive to help her focus her gift, realize the rest of our world must have her use it to prevent catastrophe instead of just for her own pleasure.
Her "weapon" or power or gift is her ability to manipulate time - which she may not have even fully understood, as somebody with such a gift my have difficulty developing a baseline, or reference timeline (which all of us normal people have) with which to compare her journeys or experiences against.

Does that answer your question adequately? Or was I unclear?

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, December 4, 2016 2:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I can't honestly give you a good response because I need to see it again. From what you say in your spoiler section, I would need to see it again. It was obvious Louise was unaware of her power until further into the film and as she became more aware.

There is so much to this film that I'm beginning to think that it is indeed a masterpiece and needs several viewings for capturing the multiple themes and revelations. Much like Inception and Cloud Atlas, this film needs more time.

SGG

I am sorry that I was unable to complete my comments.

See also my reply to Zeek.

Select to view spoiler:

I think you feel her "weapon" and the pivotal purpose of her presence was her "ability" with language. But I think it is her ability to manipulate time, which is also what her language talent flows from. Her team is translating the term as "weapon" but I doubt that is the meaning that the visitors are trying to convey. But it is a weapon, which will avert a World War to decimate the human population, which they cannot afford in about 3,000 years.
They are not referring to being able to translate - they are specifically referring to her unique ability to manipulate time. Perhaps the reason for them appearing now is that no human previously had this ability, or at least in a time when cellular devices would allow instant communication via a strictly private number to the General who was about to plunge the World into Nuclear Winter.
Her focus on her daughter is primarily the reason she utilizes this gift of time manipulation, and therefore practices it - she has little or no other practical use of this ability, or else chooses not to utilize it or expose the fact to the world outside of herself.

I do think that this film is more on par with Inception in that it does have much to glean from more viewings. I think that I have gotten more than other viewers, much like I found with Oblivion. But I do expect to view it again because there are other facets of the presentation that I want to check and review. I do think that this is a film which many will revel in once it is on DVD and is viewed multiple times. Both for it's presentation, and clues, and nuances, and also for it's somewhat revolutionary use of the mellow climax which many seem to be disappointed with.
Perhaps we should think of it as a more intelligent conclusion in terms of film experiences.
I would not yet argue with the label of masterpiece.
I do still wonder if this is the first of many, leading the way. If so, how much time will elapse before the next arrives? A "generation" of films is often 2 years - are other similar films starting up now (if at all), or are they already in production - following the script's specific detail of how the visuals and audibles would contribute in what we have seen.

Regarding plot - of course, without her meeting her daughter's father, she would not have had reason to discover this ability of hers - PARADOX!!

SHINYGOODGUY

Monday, December 5, 2016 4:34 PM

Select to view spoiler:

I understood that her power, or skill, was in manipulating time. Her skill in immersing herself in language was honed both by her dogged determination to learn and natural abilities. At least that's how I saw it

SGG

SHINYGOODGUY

Monday, December 5, 2016 4:38 PM

Yes, that was clear to me, and useful.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Select to view spoiler:
Why do you guys think she had some sort of power? I didn't see any indication of that. She explained that when you immerse yourself in another language you begin to experience things as that culture experiences things. I thought that was that whole point. She immersed herself in the alien language and learned to perceive as they do.

Thank you for using the spoiler function.
Because I find the subject I will mention to be pivotal and surprising to an unaware audience viewer, I will continue to use the same function when discussing this particular facet of the film.
Select to view spoiler:
They refer to her "weapon" and early in the process she explains the imprecise meanings of weapons, tools, etc. To them, her "weapon" is her ability to manipulate time. Whatever term they are actually using, it is translated as "weapon" and they must not realize that we are interpreting it incorrectly - unless they do actually think of it as a weapon (which I find unlikely based upon their knowledge, and avoidance of aggressive behavior).
This skill/gift of hers is the key to everything, including how to contact (for one) the Chinese General, and how to convince him (for another), as well as how she learns the language - note that she learns the language by remembering into the future (when she is teaching a class on the language).
I think that SGG and many others are assuming that her "weapon" is her "ability" to learn language, or immerse herself into culture, instead of her gift of time manipulation, which engenders all of the other tasks that she can perform with it.
The aliens arrive to help her focus her gift, realize the rest of our world must have her use it to prevent catastrophe instead of just for her own pleasure.
Her "weapon" or power or gift is her ability to manipulate time - which she may not have even fully understood, as somebody with such a gift my have difficulty developing a baseline, or reference timeline (which all of us normal people have) with which to compare her journeys or experiences against.

Does that answer your question adequately? Or was I unclear?

ZEEK

Monday, December 5, 2016 8:59 PM

Select to view spoiler:

I definitely interpret the movie differently. I don't think Louise had any time abilities inherently. I interpreted it as something any human was capable of. If they immersed themselves in the alien language then they could learn to perceive time the way the aliens do.

I guess we have no evidence that anyone else accomplished what Louise did, but considering humans need this ability 3000 years in the future suggests at least some other people will need to learn to do the same thing, right?

SHINYGOODGUY

Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:20 PM

Select to view spoiler:

I think that the aliens reached out to Louise because they knew she was open and susceptible to their form of communication and sensitive to time displacement. Which puts me in mind of which came first, her susceptibility to time displacement or her openness to language and communication. Did the aliens infuse her with it or did they draw out what was already there? This just keeps getting deeper, and I love that. The more we dig the more we uncover

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Select to view spoiler:
I definitely interpret the movie differently. I don't think Louise had any time abilities inherently. I interpreted it as something any human was capable of. If they immersed themselves in the alien language then they could learn to perceive time the way the aliens do.

I guess we have no evidence that anyone else accomplished what Louise did, but considering humans need this ability 3000 years in the future suggests at least some other people will need to learn to do the same thing, right?

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, December 8, 2016 6:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Select to view spoiler:
I definitely interpret the movie differently. I don't think Louise had any time abilities inherently. I interpreted it as something any human was capable of. If they immersed themselves in the alien language then they could learn to perceive time the way the aliens do.

I guess we have no evidence that anyone else accomplished what Louise did, but considering humans need this ability 3000 years in the future suggests at least some other people will need to learn to do the same thing, right?

Select to view spoiler:
I think that the aliens reached out to Louise because they knew she was open and susceptible to their form of communication and sensitive to time displacement. Which puts me in mind of which came first, her susceptibility to time displacement or her openness to language and communication. Did the aliens infuse her with it or did they draw out what was already there? This just keeps getting deeper, and I love that. The more we dig the more we uncover

SGG

I do not have great dispute that this ability is inherent to all humans, but it looks like it at least must be taught.

Also, I have realized something. The presumption was that Louise was the first with this ability.

Select to view spoiler:

For those thinking that Louise had practiced time manipulation prior to the Arrival, then she would have known who her husband would be before she met him in linear time. So when she met him, she knew he would be her husband.
I have heard of numerous women who have said this very thing - so maybe Louise is not the first to have this ability.

Also, I just read ECG's review on his site, and I am glad he didn't spoiler it, plus he didn't seem disappointed in the climax.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, December 11, 2016 3:54 AM

As mentioned, I have come to think of Arrival as more of a cerebral entertainment and story.

What others do you feel compare?
I'd say Inception, Oblivion.
Although Edge of Tomorrow has a bunch more action, it also has a lot of thought in it, and requires multiple viewing to revel in the full work.

Although the above films are essentially Sci-Fi, and many Sci-Fi are foundationally built upon cerebral stories, I invite mention of other films which are not of the Sci-Fi genre.