Arrival
POSTED BY: ecgordon
UPDATED: Sunday, August 27, 2017 21:42
VIEWED: 13443
PAGE 2 of 10
I get that too sometimes, especially with a film of this caliber. There's so much to absorb and reflect upon, so much that is going on, plus the fact that, as a film fan we want to sit back and enjoy; but there's that little voice - you know that voice inside your head.
Ultimately, in the end, we are our worst critic.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Thanks, man, but I'd have to disagree about the quality of the review. I struggled with it for hours and I'm still not satisfied. Maybe in a few years, and after several more viewings, I can revise it to better reflect my opinion. Of course, my opinion could change, as it has for other films at times.
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You and I are on the same page when it comes to spoiling a film...I'm not a fan. Also, put my name in the Hobby column. I try as much as possible to express myself in a professional manner, although I'm far from that lofty position. I prefer to point out certain aspects of the film that gives the reader an overall picture. Giving a brief description of the film's story, then filling it in with the cobbling together, or logistics, of the movie - acting, pacing, cinematography, direction, music etc.
Both my son and I despise the modern-day Hollywood trailers. They just give so much away, it's their own version of spoilers that you find yourself anticipating while watching the movie. We had discussed a way in which you could show a piece without giving away/spoiling the film. We thought why not produce a prologue or epilogue that gives the viewer a piece of the story
without actually showing clips of the main piece. Something that gives you a bit of the theme without giving away the main thrust of the film.
A couple of years ago, we both thought that Christopher Nolan, with the Dark Knight, had really captured that idea by using a scene from within the main piece - the bank robbery scene. I thought it was a brilliant move on his part, creating excitement while, at the same time, not spoiling the film.
EC, it is the love of film and storytelling that drives us. Hobby or no, we may be on different roads, but we're on the same path. We both strive and struggle for that love and it ain't ever easy.
Your colleague in suffering (for the art form)
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
My reviews are just a hobby, I'm far from a professional, and there are many times I know I'm not as good as I would like. One thing I try not to do is spoil a film or book, unlike how Gary Westfahl does in the first paragraph of his review at LocusOnline. I'm sure he figured his audience there would have read the short story, but still, that's sloppy, and without any warning either.
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I did not read the book.
I am not sure why people are complaining about the ending. Was it because of too much foreshadowing, so the ending was obvious halfway through? What else?
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Saw the movie this weekend. Not a bad scifi movie. Some of the dialog writing didn't work for me. Took me out of the movie a bit. I really hate when characters don't act like normal people just to serve the plot. Such as not telling people very basic information just so the audience is kept in the dark. Regardless it was a decent movie. I'm not sure if I'll ever watch it again, but it definitely could be interesting a second time through.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Definitely has made it into at least my Top 10 SF films, maybe the Top 5, but it will take a few more viewings to be sure. Not as good as the story it's based on, but if it was, there would be no question it would be at least #2. I'm gonna go re-read Ted Chiang's "Story of Your Life" before I start on my review. I also have a book to review, so no telling when I can finish either.
For comparison, my Top 3 SF films are:
2001: A Space Odyssey
Blade Runner
Serenity
I've seen each of those close to 20 times each, so you'll forgive me for not being able to determine exactly where Arrival will end up on the list just yet.
As though they were saying we've come this far for this? It felt real, both Renner and Adams were excellent.....but the best and worst part (if you can call it worst in this gem of a movie) was at the end, I did not see that coming.
So, what was the worst part? What did you not see coming?
Quote:
Confused!? Well, that's why it needs to be seen more than once (I did miss some of the dialogue - especially when the colonel came to get Dr. Banks at her home in the helicopter).
did you feel that dialogue was intentionally muddled,
Select to view spoiler:
providing effects for the time-control?
or were you still adjusting to the sound from the previews?
Quote:
SGG
I did think it a bit rude of her to
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As far as the ending goes; I liked it. What I was referring to was the build up to the end and how I felt the ending of the story was an anti-climactic letdown. I got the sense that the people in the theater I went to had a similar reaction. The "why" of the movie, the big reveal of the visit.
Despite that letdown, I was impressed with all the rest. And that was the "worst" part. The ending, I didn't see that coming; and that's a good thing.
The sound mixing during the colonel coming for Louise scene was a bit off, so that I couldn't hear the dialogue clearly.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Definitely has made it into at least my Top 10 SF films, maybe the Top 5, but it will take a few more viewings to be sure. Not as good as the story it's based on, but if it was, there would be no question it would be at least #2. I'm gonna go re-read Ted Chiang's "Story of Your Life" before I start on my review. I also have a book to review, so no telling when I can finish either.
For comparison, my Top 3 SF films are:
2001: A Space Odyssey
Blade Runner
Serenity
I've seen each of those close to 20 times each, so you'll forgive me for not being able to determine exactly where Arrival will end up on the list just yet.
As though they were saying we've come this far for this? It felt real, both Renner and Adams were excellent.....but the best and worst part (if you can call it worst in this gem of a movie) was at the end, I did not see that coming.
So, what was the worst part? What did you not see coming?Quote:
Confused!? Well, that's why it needs to be seen more than once (I did miss some of the dialogue - especially when the colonel came to get Dr. Banks at her home in the helicopter).
did you feel that dialogue was intentionally muddled,Select to view spoiler:
providing effects for the time-control?
or were you still adjusting to the sound from the previews?Quote:
SGG
I did think it a bit rude of her to
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Definitely has made it into at least my Top 10 SF films, maybe the Top 5, but it will take a few more viewings to be sure. Not as good as the story it's based on, but if it was, there would be no question it would be at least #2. I'm gonna go re-read Ted Chiang's "Story of Your Life" before I start on my review. I also have a book to review, so no telling when I can finish either.
For comparison, my Top 3 SF films are:
2001: A Space Odyssey
Blade Runner
Serenity
I've seen each of those close to 20 times each, so you'll forgive me for not being able to determine exactly where Arrival will end up on the list just yet.
As though they were saying we've come this far for this? It felt real, both Renner and Adams were excellent.....but the best and worst part (if you can call it worst in this gem of a movie) was at the end, I did not see that coming.
So, what was the worst part? What did you not see coming?Quote:
Confused!? Well, that's why it needs to be seen more than once (I did miss some of the dialogue - especially when the colonel came to get Dr. Banks at her home in the helicopter).
did you feel that dialogue was intentionally muddled,Select to view spoiler:
providing effects for the time-control?
or were you still adjusting to the sound from the previews?Quote:
SGG
I did think it a bit rude of her to
Finishing my line...
I thought it rude of her to tell her hubby about the eventual path of their daughter's life. Did she do it just to hurt him? I have not yet reconciled that, other than her just being mean.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Definitely has made it into at least my Top 10 SF films, maybe the Top 5, but it will take a few more viewings to be sure. Not as good as the story it's based on, but if it was, there would be no question it would be at least #2. I'm gonna go re-read Ted Chiang's "Story of Your Life" before I start on my review. I also have a book to review, so no telling when I can finish either.
For comparison, my Top 3 SF films are:
2001: A Space Odyssey
Blade Runner
Serenity
I've seen each of those close to 20 times each, so you'll forgive me for not being able to determine exactly where Arrival will end up on the list just yet.
As though they were saying we've come this far for this? It felt real, both Renner and Adams were excellent.....but the best and worst part (if you can call it worst in this gem of a movie) was at the end, I did not see that coming.
So, what was the worst part? What did you not see coming?Quote:
Confused!? Well, that's why it needs to be seen more than once (I did miss some of the dialogue - especially when the colonel came to get Dr. Banks at her home in the helicopter).
did you feel that dialogue was intentionally muddled,Select to view spoiler:
providing effects for the time-control?
or were you still adjusting to the sound from the previews?Quote:
SGG
I did think it a bit rude of her to tell her hubby about the eventual path of their daughter's life. Did she do it just to hurt him? I have not yet reconciled that, other than her just being mean.
As far as the ending goes; I liked it. What I was referring to was the build up to the end and how I felt the ending of the story was an anti-climactic letdown. I got the sense that the people in the theater I went to had a similar reaction. The "why" of the movie, the big reveal of the visit.
I still don't understand what letdown. Wasn't it the best possible outcome? Was everybody hoping for more violence? There was so much foreshadowing, did people feel letdown that it was simply what the foreshadowing portended? They wanted it to not be what the foreshadowing indicated?
The puzzle was solved, right? Wasn't that the build up you mentioned? The puzzle, the mystery, the time-critical resolution? I feel like that was somewhat what Apollo 13 was about - a very time-critical race of thought and solutions. But Apollo 13 and Arrival were not paced the same.
Quote:
Despite that letdown, I was impressed with all the rest. And that was the "worst" part. The ending, I didn't see that coming; and that's a good thing.
The sound mixing during the colonel coming for Louise scene was a bit off, so that I couldn't hear the dialogue clearly.
Yes, I already agreed. But my question for you is do you think it was intentional? Did you see Inception? During that film and during FF Episode Out of Gas there were sensory clues to the level, state, or date of the scene.
Select to view spoiler:
Was this a clue for us about her time-warping? Do you think this scene, and some other scenes, had intentionally muddled sound or focus?
Quote:
SGG
I do admit that I am not certain if the guy in the hazmat bubble stretcher was her adversary from, what was it-Berkeley?
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I felt the Big Question of the movie was "Why did the Aliens arrive?"
This was driven hard by the director from within the script, and also by the characters within the movie.
The effects you speak of happen to Louise, it is her perception, her point of view we see. That is purposeful. The "helicopter" scene that I'm speaking of I do not believe was an intentional "effect." Although there are some that Louise experiences that "we" (the audience) get to experience along with her. Those, I do believe, were intended to elicit or stimulate "our" thoughts in a particular way...namely emotions towards family and significant events.
It was clear to me that this was key, but how it fit into the story was another piece of the puzzle. I enjoyed how that was hinted at and that we were not "spoon-fed" the answers. But the "why" was still not clear - why they came to earth and what did that have to do with Louise and her daughter. This was built up to a climax at the end that did not match in the level of intensity of the build up....strictly my opinion. I felt that the reveal as to why the aliens arrived when they did was not equal to the task...namely a profound reason that matched the build up throughout the movie. Perhaps the book would provide an answer to that question.
The film was saying that the aliens would help humans with some future crisis
but never revealed what that crisis could possibly be. That they switch the focus to the mother and child reunion. For me that wasn't quite enough to have invested nearly 2 hours of mystery solving. Time displacement or chronological disorder just didn't quite quench the thirst for knowledge and answer the Big Why "they" were here now.
Both Inception and Out of Gas - apples and oranges, although each presented their time displacement reveals in a much more clearly defined way. The rules of the game were explained far more clearly so that we understood, once there, how to apply those rules. We could figure out, to some degree, what each character contributed to the climax and ending. We otherwise had more to go on and I, for one, felt that the journey was well worth the ride.
Arrival kept the rules purposely hidden and had us follow "bread crumbs" along the way. This could have been more rewarding had they given a more satisfying reason for the Arrival. Had this happened, I suggest that even the ending would have been enhanced, so that instead of the audience leaving the theater in a subdued fashion, applause would have been the response. That is to say, that I liked the surprise reveal of the family
at the end, but not to the degree I "loved" the endings of Inception and Out of Gas.
The worst part? The reveal of why the aliens arrived - big letdown.
What I didn't see coming? The family reveal or who the father was.
What I think finally sunk this movie was how the director tried to pull the rabbit out of the hat and instead pulled a meek little mouse. The old switcheroo. Look over here at this hand, pay no attention to the hand behind the curtain. He's given us aliens, ominous and mysterious in nature.
Why are they here? Every character is dispatched to uncover the mystery. It's what drives the movie. Yes, they drop hints along the way that somehow our hero is connected to the event, and they are very clever not to give away too much.
But then we are offered a switch and reveal that left me scratching my head, although beautifully presented, that the movie had this underlying message about how we humans must learn to embrace life no matter what is thrown at us...but most especially, how we must cherish our time together.
I think, with a few tweaks, that message could have been delivered in a more powerful way. For me, it makes me appreciate Inception and Out of Gas that much more.
That's it. Nothing more to be said on that subject. Just my take on it.
SGG
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Quote:There was a bigger idea being sold in this movie. It was sincere, and serious, physics:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
But then we are offered a switch and reveal that left me scratching my head, although beautifully presented, that the movie had this underlying message about how we humans must learn to embrace life no matter what is thrown at us...but most especially, how we must cherish our time together.
I think, with a few tweaks, that message could have been delivered in a more powerful way. For me, it makes me appreciate Inception and Out of Gas that much more.
Einstein once described his friend Michele Besso as “the best sounding board in Europe” for scientific ideas. They attended university together in Zurich; later they were colleagues at the patent office in Bern. When Besso died in the spring of 1955, Einstein—knowing that his own time was also running out—wrote a now-famous letter to Besso’s family. “Now he has departed this strange world a little ahead of me,” Einstein wrote of his friend’s passing. “That signifies nothing. For us believing physicists, the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.”
Einstein’s statement was not merely an attempt at consolation. Many physicists argue that Einstein’s position is implied by the two pillars of modern physics: Einstein’s masterpiece, the general theory of relativity, and the Standard Model of particle physics. The laws that underlie these theories are time-symmetric—that is, the physics they describe is the same, regardless of whether the variable called “time” increases or decreases. Moreover, they say nothing at all about the point we call “now”—a special moment (or so it appears) for us, but seemingly undefined when we talk about the universe at large. The resulting timeless cosmos is sometimes called a “block universe”—a static block of space-time in which any flow of time, or passage through it, must presumably be a mental construct or other illusion.
Many physicists have made peace with the idea of a block universe, arguing that the task of the physicist is to describe how the universe appears from the point of view of individual observers. To understand the distinction between past, present and future, you have to “plunge into this block universe and ask: ‘How is an observer perceiving time?’” said Andreas Albrecht, a physicist at the University of California, Davis, and one of the founders of the theory of cosmic inflation.
www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/07/the-debate-over-times-plac
e-in-the-universe/492464/
The heptapods knew in detail what would happen 3,000 years into the future and Louisa knew in detail what would happen to her future daughter, Hannah. Both Louisa & heptapods were prepared for the sad inevitabilities.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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