A sensible discussion about Russia's threat to the USA

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 3, 2026 02:56
VIEWED: 6883
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THGRRI

Sunday, August 21, 2016 7:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
An interesting way to frame the discussion. Why are you so keen to have a 'sensible' talk about Russia= KPO
are you advocating a senseless discussion?

Quote:
that exclude Russia's actions in Syria and Ukraine, its increasingly draconian laws, corrupt oligarchy, tanking economy, and the growing list of Putin enemies (journalists, dissidents, defectors, rival politicians) getting bumped off?= KPO
Why are you not breathlessly listing the war crimes and human rights betrayals of ... say... Saudi Arabia, which has done a terrible disservice to the entire Mideast, North Africa, and south Asia by exporting Wahhabism for the past 40 years?

I think you should at least first very clearly explain to me and to everyone what bothers you so much about what Russia does, because as far as I can tell, we could ignore Russia's misdeeds as easily as we ignore the Gulf States'. And if you feel that we CAN'T ignore what Russia does, then tell me why. I really want to know.

So SIG, who do you think would be a worse leader Putin or Clinton?

More of Kremlin's critics are ending up dead

Muckraking journalists, rights advocates, opposition politicians, government whistle-blowers and other Russians who threaten that image are treated harshly — imprisoned on trumped-up charges, smeared in the media and, with increasing frequency, killed.

Political murders, particularly those accomplished with poisons, are nothing new in Russia, going back five centuries. Nor are they particularly subtle. While typically not traceable to any individuals and plausibly denied by government officials, poisonings leave little doubt of the state's involvement — which may be precisely the point.

http://tbtpics.tampabay.com/news/world/more-of-kremlins-critics-are-en
ding-up-dead/2290386

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SIGNYM

Sunday, August 21, 2016 9:11 AM

So, how does Russia threaten us?

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 21, 2016 5:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
KPO: Why are you so keen to have a 'sensible' talk about Russia.

SIGGY: are you advocating a senseless discussion?

Hahahahahahahahaha! Priceless. "Today's Topic: How NOT to have a serious discussion."

Allow me: I TOLD YOU SO!!!

And this, in a nutshell, is why it's impossible to have a sensible discussion with YOU. Because, when KPO asks why I want to have a sensible discussion, the question rather begs the answer Why would one not?

So, let me ask my question AGAIN, one which the three of you have done everything BUT answering... including

Posting "Why do you want to have a sensible discussion?"
Trolling (again, THUGR. tsk tsk), and
Posting my QUESTION as indication that *I* don't want a "serious discussion.

Also, let me point out that this is a real, open-ended question, unlike the "When did you stop beating your wife?" kind of question.

*****

Assuming for the sake of discussion, that everything that you say about Russia is true: It's a terrible tyranny, where enemies are disappeared with frequency, and which has invaded Ukraine, committed countless atrocities in Syria at the request of the equally-tyrannical Bashar Assad, and cozied up to the equally heinous nation of Iran.

HOW DOES THIS THREATEN THE USA, in you view? What interests of ours, SPECIFICALLY, do these actions impact? What are OUR interests in Ukraine? In Syria? In Iran?

Please don't answer with the interests of other nations ... "the EU", "the people of Syria..." etc. I'm just trying to tease out separately what you think OUR interests are (or, in the case of G, what the interests are of your neighbor to the south; and according to KPO, the interests of your partner across The Pond).

The interests of the USA, independent of any other nation's interests.

Now, I realize that you may have OTHER reasons to hate Russia, and I don't intend to ignore those reasons, but I want to get this out of the way first.

It's OK to say "shipping", or "oil", or "losing influence in fill in the blank" ... altho I will certainly pursue that question to find out what that means, or "The USA's interests aren't immediately threatened in those regions, but in the future ..." but I want to find out what you think the USA's vital interests are, and how Russia threatens us (or in G's case, how Russia threatens your neighbor to the south; and in KPO's case, how Russia threatens your partner across the pond).

So: How does Russia threaten the interests of the USA?

It's a simple question, altho not easy to answer. And just in case it got lost in the shuffle

How does Russia threaten the interests of the USA?

Please be specific.

***

If you're ready to have a discussion about THE INTERESTS OF THE USA then so am I.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 21, 2016 7:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
KPO: Why are you so keen to have a 'sensible' talk about Russia.

SIGGY: are you advocating a senseless discussion?

Hahahahahahahahaha! Priceless. "Today's Topic: How NOT to have a serious discussion."

Allow me: I TOLD YOU SO!!!

You got it G. I asked how SIG felt about Putin killing those who disagree with him and who would be a worse leader, Putin or Hilary. All she does is change the subject. She has all kinds of opinions about other countries and world leaders. So not answering the question shows her unwillingness to discuss and therefore criticize Russia. Well G she screwed up. She started the thread ( A sensible discussion about Russia )so she forced her own hand. Russia does a lot of bad shit even to it's own citizens. Lets discuss some here with her. lol

Answering, so how does this effect us, is not discussing Russia and not going to cut it. To all reading these threads, let this attempt by me going forward be your evidence that SIG will criticize all but Russia. Lets see it SIG, ANSWER THE QUESTION.

So SIG, who do you think would be a worse leader Putin or Clinton?

More of Kremlin's critics are ending up dead

Muckraking journalists, rights advocates, opposition politicians, government whistle-blowers and other Russians who threaten that image are treated harshly — imprisoned on trumped-up charges, smeared in the media and, with increasing frequency, killed.

Political murders, particularly those accomplished with poisons, are nothing new in Russia, going back five centuries. Nor are they particularly subtle. While typically not traceable to any individuals and plausibly denied by government officials, poisonings leave little doubt of the state's involvement — which may be precisely the point.

http://tbtpics.tampabay.com/news/world/more-of-kremlins-critics-are-en
ding-up-dead/2290386

____________________________________________

SECOND

Sunday, August 21, 2016 8:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So: How does Russia threaten the interests of the USA?

It's a simple question, altho not easy to answer. And just in case it got lost in the shuffle

How does Russia threaten the interests of the USA?

Please be specific.

Not that I care but maybe you should argue about the most expensive construction project of all times – the International Space Station. Or maybe argue about shared space hardware in general. I’d like to see the back and forth sniping, something along the lines of Americans are cheapskates or the Russians are price-gouging.

I can think of 3 Russian/American “conflicts”. Everything moves with such extreme slowness in the space program that maybe the word “conflict” is wrong. Maybe “dull diplomatic disagreement” over price and schedule is a better description:

1) Russian rocket engines on American built missiles: http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/06/the-most-powerful-variant-of-th
e-worlds-most-reliable-rocket-just-launched/

2) The price of Soyuz launches to the International Space Station ISS.
http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/06/russias-top-space-official-thro
ws-shade-at-american-aerospace-companies/

3) Russia wants back their modules installed in the ISS for reuse in their own space station.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Space_Station#End_of_missi
on

Give up the abstractions and bring the Russia Vs America discussion down to Earth by going into space.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 21, 2016 8:13 PM

So 1kiki I took one from the book of SIG and transferred one of your posts here so you can explain why you feel the world is out to get Russia. No need to thank me.

Quote:
1kiki

Russia's ALLEGED widespread cheating - which you STILL have failed to provide evidence for. EVIDENCE is lab reports, not quotes of claims that someone overheard that someone else claimed to believe.

BTW - look back. It's been my contention all along that the thrust has been to punish Russian Olympian athletes for no other reason than, because, yanno ... ... ... Russia. I've been advocating all along that any athlete caught with an 'adverse finding' could, AND SHOULD be banned, for cause. My objection has always been banning athletes for political reasons.

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THGRRI

Sunday, August 21, 2016 8:25 PM

quote SIG

I'm perfectly capable of having a sensible talk about Russia

Let's see it

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 21, 2016 9:02 PM

Quote:
You got it G. I asked how SIG felt about Putin allegedly killing those who disagree with him and ~~who would be a worse leader, Putin or Hilary,~~ when did she stop beating her husband, and all she does is ~~change the subject~~ stick with the topic of the thread and ask the same question again that I refuse to answer

And that's why it's impossible to have a sensible discussion with YOU: Because you're a paid Soros troll.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 21, 2016 9:11 PM

SECOND: My hubby has groused since the beginning of the shuttle program that the shuttle was a dead elephant as soon as it was produced. He could never understand NASA's commitment to such an energy-intensive, Star Trek inspired piece of dreck. Then, after THAT ridiculous decision, the gubmint decided to "privatize" space exploration (Because everything can be done better by business, yanno?) and we are left with Elon Musk humping a Flash Gordon-inspired tail-landing rocket. It's like we're looking into the future ... of 1934!

Whatever difficulty the USA got itself into by not developing and maintaining production on a reliable rocket engine, it got into that all on its own, from a series of REALLY stupid politicized decisions. So we shot ourselves in the foot- three times! Russia has been supplying us with rocket engine since the last space shuttle was retired in 2011.

As far as Russia removing their modules from the ISS, that's not supposed to happen until the END OF THE MISSION. Once the mission ends, I assume they're free to do whatever they want with the material, correct?

I don't see this as a case of Russia "v" the USA. What I see is a case of the USA needing Russia to save us from our own stupidity.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

REAVERFAN

Sunday, August 21, 2016 9:11 PM

Soros troll!

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