mal4rez returns with an Election 2016 rant
POSTED BY: MAL4PREZ
UPDATED: Thursday, March 30, 2017 20:03
VIEWED: 12863
PAGE 1 of 1
In the Trump thread there was this:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
SECOND, KPO and G:
Anand Giridharadas just gave a speech at TED TALKS that is going to be available Tuesday the 16th. It is an apology to many Americans who feel left behind. If I can when it airs I will post a link. I am giving a link to Morning Joe so you can see the importance of what he says. His segment is titled " If Trump loses, what happens to his message?"
Finally we hear the topic start to turn away from a movement based on racism, to a topic giving voice to the concerns of the middle class.
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe
____________________________________________
I want to expand on this topic with my own thoughts, but let me start with Brexit.
Yes, this is a long-winded rant. If you aren't interested, buh-bye!! Go haunt other threads and leave this one in peace. :p
At the shallowest level I find the yes vote for Brexit to be as monumentally stupid as the rise of Drumph in the role of "Politician." (WTF?) But in the days following that Brexit vote I read the news and looked a little deeper, which gave me an empathy for Brexit and Drumph that I hadn't expected.
OK, first let's address the racist component of Brexit, the fear of immigrants. This is inexcusable and disgusting, just like Drumph's blatant racism. I do not need to investigate this side of things. It's clear enough to me how wrong it is.
(Except I must note that it is soooo ironic how Britain colonized the world for centuries but goes all drama queen freaky when people try, in a way that is orders of magnitude less obtrusive and less, for lack of a better word, dickish, to do the reverse. Britain took over the highest levels of authority in foreign lands, crushing and mangling societies around the globe. In modern times, foreign people are trying to join the most "common" levels of British society, to support the existing structure and strengthen it rather than taking it over. Some of these Brexit morons have the nerve to cry foul, to get all miss-ish about being "invaded" by foreigners who want nothing more than a day job and a place to raise their families.
*facepalm*
*smh*)
Where I look deeper is in all that talk about the impending crash of the financial markets in London and how much damage it will do. There is such panic about what would happen when the banks and markets of London lose their easy access to the Continent. Oh no!
You know what? I bet that a bunch of the people who voted for Brexit (apart from aforementioned racist assholes) aren't a part of the scheme of making money off of just having money. They don't give a shit if the London markets crash.
And why should they?
This all comes down to the ever increasing separation of classes, as does the Drumph phenomenon. Republicans, and to a lesser but not inconsequential degree Democrats, have for several decades acted in the interest of the bankers and the investors and the corporations. And themselves, of course. Our political and law-making system is corrupt at the most basic level. It does not act to serve the welfare of the People. Almost everyone knows it, even if they can't quite define it or they lay the blame differently. The powers that be exist to protect that monetary system of London and Wall Street. Anything else it does is just trying to keep the Plebs happy enough that it can retain power.
People react to this stark and ever growing imbalance differently. A lot of people just want to burn the fucking system down. Brexit might do it. President Drumph certainly would, though not in the neat way that these dumbass Drumph supporters think. He would burn it down because he's an incompetent moron with a serious personality disorder.
We who see clearly how insane Drumph is -- and yes, I am not exaggerating and I am not being sarcastic; it is demonstrably true that Drumph has serious mental health problems -- like to blame him for this madness. Or we
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See what I mean?
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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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Poor white Americans’ current crisis shouldn’t have caught the rest of the country as off guard as it has.
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/09/the-original-underclass/4
92731/?utm_source=pocket&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pockethits
"Since 1980, the share of upper-income households living in census tracts that are majority upper-income, rather than scattered throughout more mixed-income neighborhoods, has doubled. The upper echelon has increasingly sought comfort in prosperous insularity, withdrawing its abundant social capital from communities that relied on that capital’s overflow, and consolidating it in oversaturated enclaves."
"The bitterness—the “primal scorn”—that Donald Trump has tapped into among white Americans in struggling areas is aimed not just at those of foreign extraction. It is directed toward fellow countrymen who have become foreigners of a different sort, looking down on the natives, if they bother to look at all."
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
In the Trump thread there was this:
Anand Giridharadas just gave a speech at TED TALKS that is going to be available Tuesday the 16th. It is an apology to many Americans who feel left behind. If I can when it airs I will post a link. I am giving a link to Morning Joe so you can see the importance of what he says. His segment is titled " If Trump loses, what happens to his message?"
Finally we hear the topic start to turn away from a movement based on racism, to a topic giving voice to the concerns of the middle class.
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe
I want to expand on this topic with my own thoughts, but let me start with Brexit.
Yes, this is a long-winded rant. If you aren't interested, buh-bye!! Go haunt other threads and leave this one in peace. :p
At the shallowest level I find the yes vote for Brexit to be as monumentally stupid as the rise of Drumph in the role of "Politician." (WTF?) But in the days following that Brexit vote I read the news and looked a little deeper, which gave me an empathy for Brexit and Drumph that I hadn't expected.
OK, first let's address the racist component of Brexit, the fear of immigrants. This is inexcusable and disgusting, just like Drumph's blatant racism. I do not need to investigate this side of things. It's clear enough to me how wrong it is.
(Except I must note that it is soooo ironic how Britain colonized the world for centuries but goes all drama queen freaky when people try, in a way that is orders of magnitude less obtrusive and less, for lack of a better word, dickish, to do the reverse. Britain took over the highest levels of authority in foreign lands, crushing and mangling societies around the globe. In modern times, foreign people are trying to join the most "common" levels of British society, to support the existing structure and strengthen it rather than taking it over. Some of these Brexit morons have the nerve to cry foul, to get all miss-ish about being "invaded" by foreigners who want nothing more than a day job and a place to raise their families.
*facepalm*
*smh*)
Where I look deeper is in all that talk about the impending crash of the financial markets in London and how much damage it will do. There is such panic about what would happen when the banks and markets of London lose their easy access to the Continent. Oh no!
You know what? I bet that a bunch of the people who voted for Brexit (apart from aforementioned racist assholes) aren't a part of the scheme of making money off of just having money. They don't give a shit if the London markets crash.
And why should they?
This all comes down to the ever increasing separation of classes, as does the Drumph phenomenon. Republicans, and to a lesser but not inconsequential degree Democrats, have for several decades acted in the interest of the bankers and the investors and the corporations. And themselves, of course. Our political and law-making system is corrupt at the most basic level. It does not act to serve the welfare of the People. Almost everyone knows it, even if they can't quite define it or they lay the blame differently. The powers that be exist to protect that monetary system of London and Wall Street. Anything else it does is just trying to keep the Plebs happy enough that it can retain power.
People react to this stark and ever growing imbalance differently. A lot of people just want to burn the fucking system down. Brexit might do it. President Drumph certainly would, though not in the neat way that these dumbass Drumph supporters think. He would burn it down because he's an incompetent moron with a serious personality disorder.
We who see clearly how insane Drumph is -- and yes, I am not exaggerating and I am not being sarcastic; it is demonstrably true that Drumph has serious mental health problems -- like to blame him for this madness. Or we blame the short sightedness of those who are dumb enough to support him. Or we blame the misguided policies of the ReNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Shoo, fly.
Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!
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Mal
What Signy said, except I don't support Trump. My position has always been - and still is - anybody but Hillary. And my issue with her has always been - and still is - her inability to learn from her 'successes' - Iraq, Libya, Ukraine, Syria - and the fact that she's still committed to the same policies that brought them.
Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
"The bitterness—the “primal scorn”—that Donald Trump has tapped into among white Americans in struggling areas is aimed not just at those of foreign extraction. It is directed toward fellow countrymen who have become foreigners of a different sort, looking down on the natives, if they bother to look at all."
A-yup. And the "natives" seldom react to such circumstances in a nice, tidy way. This is what much of the GOP is just realizing. Drumph will actually damage them and their cause. He will do real, damage to even those who support him most because he has no idea how government and politics work.
And really, he's mentally deranged. At one point last summer I actually wondered if this was some set-up to get Hillary in, since he was buddies with her once and nothing short of him getting the GOP nomination would have made me a Hillary supporter. I mean, I would have plugged my nose and voted for her over any of those 16 other bumblers, but against Trump I have no doubts which way is better.
Another argument against the Trump-Hillary-in-cahoots-to-destroy-the-GOP conspiracy theory is that that much of the uneasiness about Hillary is due to decades of the GOP throwing shade at her. I don't think she's near as bad as she's been cast. We just need the Bernie side of things to keep pressuring her away from her Wall Street ties.
Quote:
Originally posted by G:
It is unfathomable how they can consider themselves many things - like passionate environmentalists - and yet support 'Rump. I suppose they will dodge and say, "we don't support Trump! We're just actively NOT supporting Hillary!" At this point whatever.
Stop me if you've heard this one: As Snigs and Kikstand are now part of FFF Team Trump, it puts them shoulder to shoulder with JSF and .... wait for it... Auraptor. Gah! The laughs will never end!
Yes, you were proven right on the first point in this very thread LOL!
As to the second point, I long ago saw a connection between Sig and Rap. This board survived for years on pretty much nothing but the two of them insulting each other. They kept themselves in the center of attention and drove just about everyone else away. I don't think any of it was honest, and the way Sig has replaced him after he got scarce only supports that idea.
By the way, he got scarce right at the time I called them out on needing to get a room. Coincidence?
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
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Wow thanks for the rationality sig-kik! It will come as no surprise that I disagree with you both. I hope we can continue to disagree in a reasonable way.
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
We agree 100%, except on Trump and immigration. And Bernie. I don't support Trump because I think he will... or even can ... solve our problems. I support Trump because he has at least IDENTIFIED the problems correctly.
How you get any kind of rational problem-identification out of Trump is a sign of nothing but Hillary-derangement syndrome. Calling her "Saint Hillary" shows your lack of effort to understand those who disagree with you.
Also it is completely mystifying how you think Hillary will bring on Armageddon but Mr. "Why-can't-I-use-nukes?" Drumph won't.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/290217-scarboro
ugh-trump-asked-about-adviser-about-using-nuclear
Given your focus in other threads, I would guess that you see world peace in Drumph's leadership because it'd be hard for him to push the red button while he's on his knees in front of Putin. Am I right? ;)
Kiki - "anything but Hillary" means Trump. That is the reality at the moment. You clearly think Hillary would be worse than Trump, which makes me question your ability to observe and use logic. It's OK, I know you won't come around to seeing things my way anytime soon. That ship sailed. So here's what I propose...
I have looked for this old post of mine but can't find it. It was in the lame duck period after Obama was first elected, and the right wingers of this site were wailing and gnashing their teeth about the destruction of America to come. My post suggested something like: In 4 years or 8 years when Obama is on his way out and none of these horrible things have happened and the country is ambling along in it's usual ("usual" excluding 2001 and 2007-2008, that is!) not perfect but really A-OK state, will you admit that your doom and gloom is wrong? I'm sure I was talking to folks like RiverLove and Rappy. No response. I'd love to stir up the thread if I could find it!
Anyhow, the same challenge to you two. If Hillary wins and these is no nuclear Armageddon, will you admit you were wrong? If things actually somewhat improve in terms of income equality, personal freedoms (including *not* losing the right to own guns but gaining the right to not be randomly killed by a madman who should never gotten any where close to an assault rifle!), health care costs coming under control, environmental concerns being addressed, and international relations improving, will you fall to your knees and beg forgiveness for having been so completely wrong?
If there is a President Trump and the country survives four years with anything close to status quo, I will bow down to your wisdom. There doesn't even need to be improvement. Just a bare maintainance of the conditions we have now.
Challenge accepted?
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
That is a most beautiful kitty. I miss kittens.
This is how I wake up most days this summer. Seriously. My head could explode from the cuteness.
Why don't you have kittens? Allergies?
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
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It's been like watching a Train Wrexit
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MAL4, I don't have time right now for a disquisition on why Hillary scares the bejeezus out of me. So in the meantime, there's this, by Pepe Escobar.
Quote:
It all starts with a Wahhabi-Zionist lovefest.
The Saudi Foreign Ministry was forced to go on a non-denial denial overdrive about a visit to Israel on July 22 by a delegation led by retired Gen. Anwar Eshki.
Eshki happens to be close to Saudi intel superstar and onetime close Osama bin Laden pal Prince Turki bin Faisal, who recently met in the open with former Israel Defense Forces (IDF) generals Yaakov Amidror and Amos Yadlin.
While in Israel, Eshki met with Foreign Ministry Director-General Dore Gold, and Maj. Gen. Yoav Mordechai, the top IDF honcho in the West Bank.
There’s absolutely no way the House of Saud would not have given a green light for such a visit – and such high-level meetings. By the way, the Interior Ministry in Saudi Arabia bans all travel to Israel – as well as Iran and Iraq.
So what’s the big deal? The Israelis spun it as the Saudis – fronting for the Arab League — offering a normalization of ties with the Arab world without Israel abdicating from anything on the Palestinian front. The only thing Tel Aviv would have to do, much later, is to adopt the 2002, Saudi-proposed Arab peace initiative.
With the execution rate in Saudi Arabia soaring to record highs this year, the government has reportedly beheaded five foreigners convicted of murder and robbery.
© Flickr/ Yasser Abusen
Survey Says: Saudis Consider Iran a Greater Threat Than Israel, ISIL
That’s nonsense. For starters, the ultra right-wing Zionists in power in Tel Aviv will never accept reverting to the pre-1967 borders and recognizing the state of Palestine. What was “discussed” was a non-deal, even as Tel Aviv gloats, “important Arab states are willing to openly embrace us even though we have not given up one inch of the West Bank and even as we continue to control Al-Aqsa Mosque.”
If the Arab League would ever embark in such a blatant non-deal, forever throwing the Palestinians under myriad bulldozers, chances are oligarchies/petromonarchies all across the spectrum should start booking that one-way ticket to London.
That Moscow-Tehran-Ankara alliance
After the fatal terrorist shootings at an historic black church in South Carolina, President Barack Obama again cited lax gun laws as contributing to this type of mass violence.
© AP Photo/ Susan Walsh
Knock Knock Knocking on Russia’s Door: Major US Allies Turn Away From Washington on Syria
So what did they actually talk about? Predictably, the imminent prospect of the Full Spectrum Dominatrix finally taking over the White House.
Both Bibi Netanyahu in Tel Aviv and de facto House of Saud ruler and Prince of War Mohammad bin Salman in Riyadh have been reduced, under the Obama administration, to the status of proverbial, euphemistic “estranged allies”. Between them, they are de facto allies – even as they cannot admit it to the Arab street. Both are dead sure, under the Queen of War, there will be – what else – war. The question is against whom.
Informed speculation points towards the Saudi/Israeli common enemy, Iran. That’s complicated. The joint Saudi/Israeli strategy across the Middle East is indeed in tatters. Tehran has not been trapped in a quagmire neither in Syria nor in Iraq. ISIS/ISIL/Daesh and assorted “moderate rebels” – covertly supported by the Saudi/Israeli axis — are on the run, even if they insist they are not “al-Qaeda” anymore. Prince of War bin Salman is entrapped himself in an unwinnable war on Yemen.
And then there’s the spectacular post-coup pivot by Sultan Erdogan in Turkey – for all practical purposes abandoning those elaborate no-fly-zone dreams of annexing a post-Assad Syria to his neo-Ottoman set up.
The House of Saud is livid as Turkish diplomats have started to spread this blockbuster news: Erdogan has proposed to Iran’s Rouhani an all-embracing alliance with President Putin to finally solve the Middle East riddle.
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Good challenge!
Let me see: War or Being Nuked to Death. Gee, that's a tough one. Zillions of dollars spent on War machine, or being fried beyond recognition in a matter of seconds. Hmmmmm, tough choice indeed!
Which do you prefer? Me, I'm choosing option A. I'd rather keep my skin on
my body, thank you very much. Trump scares me beyond all logic. He could say,
"Fuck it, let's Nuke London. I don't like the way they banished me from ever setting foot on their soil."
It could happen!
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Wow thanks for the rationality sig-kik! It will come as no surprise that I disagree with you both. I hope we can continue to disagree in a reasonable way.Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
We agree 100%, except on Trump and immigration. And Bernie. I don't support Trump because I think he will... or even can ... solve our problems. I support Trump because he has at least IDENTIFIED the problems correctly.
How you get any kind of rational problem-identification out of Trump is a sign of nothing but Hillary-derangement syndrome. Calling her "Saint Hillary" shows your lack of effort to understand those who disagree with you.
Also it is completely mystifying how you think Hillary will bring on Armageddon but Mr. "Why-can't-I-use-nukes?" Drumph won't.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/290217-scarboro
ugh-trump-asked-about-adviser-about-using-nuclear
Given your focus in other threads, I would guess that you see world peace in Drumph's leadership because it'd be hard for him to push the red button while he's on his knees in front of Putin. Am I right? ;)
Kiki - "anything but Hillary" means Trump. That is the reality at the moment. You clearly think Hillary would be worse than Trump, which makes me question your ability to observe and use logic. It's OK, I know you won't come around to seeing things my way anytime soon. That ship sailed. So here's what I propose...
I have looked for this old post of mine but can't find it. It was in the lame duck period after Obama was first elected, and the right wingers of this site were wailing and gnashing their teeth about the destruction of America to come. My post suggested something like: In 4 years or 8 years when Obama is on his way out and none of these horrible things have happened and the country is ambling along in it's usual ("usual" excluding 2001 and 2007-2008, that is!) not perfect but really A-OK state, will you admit that your doom and gloom is wrong? I'm sure I was talking to folks like RiverLove and Rappy. No response. I'd love to stir up the thread if I could find it!
Anyhow, the same challenge to you two. If Hillary wins and these is no nuclear Armageddon, will you admit you were wrong? If things actually somewhat improve in terms of income equality, personal freedoms (including *not* losing the right to own guns but gaining the right to not be randomly killed by a madman who should never gotten any where close to an assault rifle!), health care costs coming under control, environmental concerns being addressed, and international relations improving, will you fall to your knees and beg forgiveness for having been so completely wrong?
If there is a President Trump and the country survives four years with anything close to status quo, I will bow down to your wisdom. There doesn't even need to be improvement. Just a bare maintainance of the conditions we have now.
Challenge accepted?
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
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Boy M4P, you came back with a vengeance.
Welcome Back!
SGG
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Quote:Actually, no. Clearly, you don't know what Trump has been saying. For your information, I placed a Youtube press conference in the Trump thread.
Let me see: War or Being Nuked to Death. Gee, that's a tough one. Zillions of dollars spent on War machine, or being fried beyond recognition in a matter of seconds. Hmmmmm, tough choice indeed!
Which do you prefer? Me, I'm choosing option A. I'd rather keep my skin on my body, thank you very much.
Trump scares me beyond all logic. He could say, "Fuck it, let's Nuke London. I don't like the way they banished me from ever setting foot on their soil."
It could happen!
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60557&p=11
What analysts are afraid of is that HILLARY will push her way into a nuclear war. Obama set the stage: The USA abrogated the anti-ballistic missile treaty and placed nuclear weapons right on Russia's border. Putin has every reason to be agitated: If Russia were able to foment a communist revolution in Mexico and place nuclear missiles in Mexico and Cuba, I'm sure the US President would be rightfully agitated too.
Here is a liberal take on our nuclear arms relations with Russia
Quote:
Washington and Moscow repeatedly accuse each other of violating and abrogating these treaties, while planning new and often drastic countermeasures. Russia complains that the United States withdrew from the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty in 2002, becoming the first nation since World War II to exit a major arms control agreement. This move was followed by the development and deployment of the US Ballistic Missile Defense System, with elements in several countries in Eastern Europe close to Russia.
Moscow also protests NATO’s eastward expansion, with good reason. Despite the dissolution of the Soviet-era Warsaw Pact in 1991, NATO has increased its membership from 12 nations to 28, and has placed the accession of Ukraine and another former Soviet republic, Georgia, on its agenda. The United States also keeps large nuclear arsenals in several European countries, and NATO has an overwhelming superiority over Russia in conventional weapons...
... Russia denies such charges and complains that Washington has disregarded many of Russia’s concerns in recent negotiations over missile defense. Some of these concerns might be dismissed as artificial, but even in the eyes of such distinguished security experts as Keir Giles and Andrew Monaghan, “viewed from Moscow, the history of US [ballistic missile defense] development is one of inconsistency, unpredictability, and doubtful assurances.”
https://www.thenation.com/article/why-obama-should-restart-nuclear-tal
ks-with-russia/
Here is a very cynical analysis by a military analyst (mp3)
https://solari.com/audio/sr20160609_InterviewHQ.mp3
Hillary has never met a war she didn't like. She was all down with bombing Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria. Her coterie of advisors are Brzezinski-style neocons (Robert Kagan, Victoria Nuland, Max Boot, Madeleine Albright - who was almost as bad as Hillary as Scy State, and too many others to mention) who are even more warlike, if that's possible, than GWB's advisors.
If you don't believe me, then read these:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/20/hillary-clintons-neocon-resume/
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/25/robert-kagan-and-other-neocons-bac
k-hillary-clinton/
And finally
--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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My concerns about Hillary's nuclear holocaust is based on
1) Her relentless warmongering, and
2) The nuclear envelope that is being pushed by the Democratic Party, the necon-infested State Department, and Hillary's personal advisors.
Quote:
On Sunday June 5th, Reuters headlined “Russia Says U.S. Refuses Talks on Missile Defence System”, and reported that, “The United States has refused Russian offers to discuss Washington’s missile defence programme, Russian Deputy Defence Minister Anatoly Antonov was quoted as saying on Sunday, calling the initiative ‘very dangerous’.” ...
[The] theory, of a winnable nuclear war (which in the U.S. seems to be replacing the prior theory, called “M.A.D.” for Mutually Assured Destruction) was first prominently put forth in 2006 in the prestigious U.S. journal Foreign Affairs, headlining “The Rise of Nuclear Primacy” and which advocated for a muchboldermore reckless U.S. strategic policy against Russia ...
1962, when the shoe was on the other foot and the U.S. President was concerned about theThe fact that these efforts on the part of the Russian government are via public media instead of via private conversations ... suggests that Mr. Obama, unlike U.S. President John Fitzgerald Kennedy in 1962, refuses to communicate with Russia, now that the U.S. is potentially in the position of the [nuclear] aggressor.
http://thesaker.is/obama-slams-door-in-putins-face-says-if-putin-doesn
t-want-russias-retaliatory-forces-eliminated-hell-need-to-be-the-one-to-press-the-nuclear-button-first/
Those facts have significant implications. When I get the time, I will put together an integrated disquisition about Hillary, but in the meantime take a look at the Dem's recent warmongering history.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=58859
--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Moscow also protests NATO’s eastward expansion, with good reason. Despite the dissolution of the Soviet-era Warsaw Pact in 1991, NATO has increased its membership from 12 nations to 28, and has placed the accession of Ukraine and another former Soviet republic, Georgia, on its agenda. The United States also keeps large nuclear arsenals in several European countries, and NATO has an overwhelming superiority over Russia in conventional weapons...
... Russia denies such charges and complains that Washington has disregarded many of Russia’s concerns in recent negotiations over missile defense.
And again everyone, SIG taking Russia's side. Every time comrade, every time.
____________________________________________
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MAL4, this is the irrationality that passes for discussion these days.
--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
MAL4, this is the irrationality that passes for discussion these days.
No, it's quite rational. I've seen what you did in the Russia threads. I've also seen that just before I started this thread you were insulting me in another thread. And now you're trying to be my bud?
Please. You are so manipulative! Why would anyone bother to reason with you anymore, after what you've become? I certainly won't.
As for your treatise on the evils of Hillary, don't bother. There's already a thread for that and I have seen your arguments. You would be wasting your time repeating them here.
And I won't bother disputing your idea that the former Secretary of State who has conversed with just about every world leader is a war-monger as compared to a whiny orange toddler who openly talks about wanting to use nukes. Your idea is ridiculous, no matter what made up conspiracy nonsense you found on RT.
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Kiki - "anything but Hillary" means Trump. That is the reality at the moment.
My state is and has always been solidly for Hillary. My vote is a 'message' vote. What kind of message do I want to send? It depends on which one will come through loudest. If Trump has any traction at all - in double digits - I'll vote for him, because nothing says 'you're a loser' to a candidate like voting for an opponent. And to the infinitesimally small amount I can add to that message and make it more viable, I will. But if either Jill Stein or Gary Johnson have more traction, I'll vote that way. In that case my message is 'dems - you COULD have had my vote, but I couldn't stomach your candidate'. The hope is that if dems see their support slipping off to other similar parties, they'll take note.
You clearly think Hillary would be worse than Trump, which makes me question your ability to observe and use logic.
I observe that Hillary voted for the Iraq war. And failed to learn that simply destroying a stable government just because you don't like it, without being able to stabilize the aftermath, simply means you'll create a nest of terrorists. And so she did more of the same with Libya, and yup, got the same result as Iraq; and Ukraine, and created a failed state; and Syria, and yup got the same result as Iraq. The only thing rescuing Syria from being another Libya are Russia and Iran.
And she failed to learn from Afghanistan that there's no such thing as a friendly terrorist group you can turn on - and off - at command.
And with her provocative approach to Russia, she's failed to heed Putin's words that, if threatened, Russia will use nukes. If I took the time I could find the quote, but not only did he promise to use nukes, he said that, unlike WWII, the US wouldn't be allowed to sit safely and undamaged out of the fray.
I find that a threat to take seriously. But not Hillary. NOPE. She continues undaunted, with no apparent goal OR STOPPING POINT.
THAT'S HER UNDENIABLE HISTORY which I've observed.
And which policies she reiterates in the draft platform.
LOGIC tells me that if that's her history, and if she says she'll stay the course into the future, then there's a good chance it'll happen. And we'll see its outcome.
I've also made that case that just because Hillary is president, it doesn't mean her agenda will go forward. Because the only things that will are the things on which she can get agreement from the republican Congress, which are trade agreements, and war-mongering (including her stance on Israel and Russia).
If Hillary wins and these is no nuclear Armageddon
It depends on why not. If we're rescued from nuclear Armageddon by some third factor swooping in deus ex machina style, then no, it doesn't count for Hillary, her administration, or the democratic party.
I've ALSO made the case that just because Trump is president, it doesn't mean he'll 'push the button' in a fit of pique, because there are safeguards against a rogue president.
If there is a President Trump and the country survives four years with anything close to status quo
And it doesn't mean his agenda will necessarily go forward either, since republicans don't have a filibuster-proof majority in the senate.
But that does depend on senate democrats doing right by their constituency. How confident are you that they will? If you're not, then there's a deeper rot in the party than just Hillary.
And I certainly HOPE we can discuss this rationally - which means you address my points - ALL OF THEM - with facts and logic - as I have addressed yours.
ETA: but given your following post I'm not going to hold my breath. Because clearly, you d
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:
What does concern me a little is seeing the Harpies plant the "nuclear holocaust" seed. I've seen this before from them, where they offer up some dark concern or danger concept so they can blame some later behavior on it, "I told you *blank* was evil!" I feel like it's A) a desperate, weak, obvious attempt to chill any Hillary supporters, and B) an opportunity to blame Hillary later for something Putin might do should he choose to. Here's the real reveal: no one on this planet that is sane (Sorry Donnie! Putin?) believes there's any benefit to a nuclear engagement of any kind. AND DEFINITELY not the US. We have too much to gain from a healthy planet and healthy relations. We're all better off when we all get along. This is known. So called "Hillary's Wars?" First, like she's the only one involved in making decisions - bupkis. Second, we're really calling Ukraine, Libya "wars?"
I think the twins need to brush up on their Hamlet.
Indeed indeed to all of this!
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http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/08/tea-party-pacs-ideas-de
ath-214164
An article written by someone who worked for a PAC backing the Tea Party. Some tidbits:
Quote:
How We Killed the Tea Party
Greedy super PACs drained the movement with endless pleas for money to support “conservative” candidates—while instead using the money to enrich themselves. I should know. I worked for one of them.
What began as an organic, policy-driven grass-roots movement was drained of its vitality and resources by national political action committees that dunned the movement’s true believers endlessly for money to support its candidates and causes. The PACs used that money first to enrich themselves and their vendors and then deployed most of the rest to search for more “prospects.”
...
I was an employee at one of the firms that ran these operations. But nothing that follows is proprietary or gleaned directly from my employment. The evidence of the scheming is all there in the public record, available for anyone willing to look.
...
One active solicitor is the Tea Party Leadership Fund, which received $6.7 million from 2013 to mid-2015, overwhelmingly from small donors. A typical solicitation from the TPLF read: “Your immediate contribution could be the most important financial investment you will make to help return America to greatness.” But, according to an investigation by POLITICO, 87 percent of that “investment” went to overhead; only $910,000 of the $6.7 million raised was used to support political candidates. If the prospect signs a “petition,” typically a solicitation of his or her personal information is recorded and a new screen immediately appears asking for money. Vendors pass the information around in “list swaps” and “revenue shares” ad infinitum.
...
In 2014, the Tea Party Patriots group spent just 10 percent of the $14.4 million it collected actually supporting candidates, with the rest going to consultants and vendors and Martin’s hefty salary of $15,000 per month; in all, she makes an estimated $450,000 a year from her Tea Party-related ventures.
....
POLITICO last year reviewed the activity of 33 conservative PACs for the 2014 cycle. Combined, they raked in $43 million dollars, according to the POLITICO report. Of that, $39.5 million went to overhead including $6 million to entities owned by PAC operators; candidates got $3 million. Another report analyzed 17 conservative PACs from the 2014 midterm. It came up with different numbers than POLITICO, finding that the bottom 10 PACs in terms of the ratio of spending to actual candidate support received $54,318,498 and spent only $3,621,896 supporting candidates.
And who is Constitutional Rights’ treasurer? My old boss Dan Backer. Backer also serves as treasurer to TPLF, and many others. An analysis found 10 conservative PACs whose treasurer was Scott MacKenzie spent 92 percent of the $17.5 million they raised on operating expenses, and less than 1 percent on candidate support.
PACs are not legally obliged to responsibly spend their loot. As former FEC enforcement officer Kenneth Gross stated, “If I have a PAC and want to spend it on a trip to Atlantic City, that’s fine,” provided it’s accurately reported. Unlike nonprofits they are not governed by a board, have no fiduciary duty to their donors and are not subject to IRS audits.
Tea Partiers were rubes, and now they're being conned again! I look forward to seeing the true financials of the Trump campaign. Really wish to see his tax returns, although there is no way he will willingly release them
Also funny: this makes one wonder about those IRS investigations. Maybe the IRS had good reason to look at these organizations--later in the article one PAC is court ordered to quit using a politician's name, since they never gave him the money. So at least part of this was illegal.
And maybe the TP rubes wouldn't get ripped off if they let the government do its work.
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Quote:Which is exactly what Trump has been saying all along. Hillary? Not so much. She and her staff have been accusing Trump of being "pro-Russian" for saying exactly what you said.
Here's the real reveal: no one on this planet that is sane (Sorry Donnie! Putin?) believes there's any benefit to a nuclear engagement of any kind. AND DEFINITELY not the US. We have too much to gain from a healthy planet and healthy relations. We're all better off when we all get along
Apparently you don't feel the need to address the USA abrogation of the ABM treaty nor the forward positioning of nuclear missiles on Russia's borders, which puts their nuclear missiles on hair-trigger. Because all of that, apparently, is somehow irrelevant to the potential of nuclear war. I guess you feel confident that Russia will back down forever.
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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I observe that Hillary voted for the Iraq war. And failed to learn ...
Nope. LIE! Hillary admitted her mistake.
Trump also supported the Iraq war. And now he lies about it. Clearly you prefer this response. Hmmm....
But whatever. This thread is not a point for point debate about why you/sig hate Hillary. That has been done in other threads. In fact, every damned thread you enter goes there LOL!
Going point for point with you two leads no where, as there is ample evidence. You manipulate, you lie, you mislead, then you namecall. I'm not doing that dance with you, sorry. Not sorry. :p
Except one thing - you claim you addressed my post (though there certainly were no facts or logic in your reply, just more misleading biased conjecture) but you neglected this:
Quote:
Challenge accepted?
Is it?
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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Apparently you don't feel the need to address the USA abrogation of the ABM treaty nor the forward positioning of nuclear missiles on Russia's borders, which puts their nuclear missiles on hair-trigger. Because all of that, apparently, is somehow irrelevant to the potential of nuclear war. I guess you feel confident that Russia will back down forever.
Always pushing Russia's agenda. Hey comrade, if you think the rest of us haven't noticed that no one in these threads agrees with you or 1kiki, well we have.
Move on comrade, you get nothing but push back here.
____________________________________________
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Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Apparently you don't feel the need to address the USA abrogation of the ABM treaty nor the forward positioning of nuclear missiles on Russia's borders, which puts their nuclear missiles on hair-trigger. Because all of that, apparently, is somehow irrelevant to the potential of nuclear war. I guess you feel confident that Russia will back down forever.
Always pushing Russia's agenda. Hey comrade, if you think the rest of us haven't noticed that no one in these threads agrees with you or 1kiki, well we have.
Move on comrade, you get nothing but push back here.
____________________________________________
Even less than that! I was not coy - this thread is for my rant. I said right off - you don't like it, go back to your other threads. sigkik won't be turning this into another HILLARY IS THE DEVIL RUSSIA TOLD ME SO tail chase.
My lord, they are so transparent! And yes, they are so Rappy Lol!
So, a reporter tweeted, regarding the Manafort/Ukraine bombshell, that more is coming later this week....
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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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Nope. LIE! Hillary admitted her mistake.
Hillary says a lot of things. I said she failed to LEARN - which means, to understand what went wrong. This is what I posted "failed to learn that simply destroying a stable government just because you don't like it, without being able to stabilize the aftermath, simply means you'll create a nest of terrorists."
And how do I know she failed to learn? Because she and/ or her cohorts, went and did the exact same thing in Libya, Syria, and Ukraine.
She also demonstrably - verbally, on the record - failed to learn from Libya. Instead of recognizing that it was a stable country without a significant terrorist presence - that is, until the US helped its destruction along - she says it's an 'evolving situation'. Any reasonable person would recognize that it's a failure.
But whatever. This thread is not a point for point debate about why you/sig hate Hillary. Going point for point with you two leads no where ...
So you DON'T want facts and logic! GOT IT!
How about we go straight to unsupported assertions, snark and name-calling? I take it that's more geared toward your level?
In any case, this is all the incoherent slagging I have time for today. See you later. Maybe we can do this again. Or hopefully, we can get on with reasoned discussion.
Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!
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Wow, SECOND... er, I mean MAL4 .... you started out normal and then went sideways.
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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Wow, SECOND... er, I mean MAL4 .... you started out normal and then went sideways.
Predictably, you ignored the deal. You attempted to take over the thread with your usual nonsense, making yourself the center of attention that you so crave to be. When that failed you attacked. As I said, I don't dance that dance.
Keep it simple. Nothing you post will change my mind. Nothing I post will change yours. So how about it - we let reality decide. We meet again in four years, see how the world has or has not changed.
Yes comrade?
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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Apparently you don't feel the need to address the USA abrogation of the ABM treaty nor the forward positioning of nuclear missiles on Russia's borders, which puts their nuclear missiles on hair-trigger. Because all of that, apparently, is somehow irrelevant to the potential of nuclear war. I guess you feel confident that Russia will back down forever.
Always pushing Russia's agenda. Hey comrade, if you think the rest of us haven't noticed that no one in these threads agrees with you or 1kiki, well we have.
Move on comrade, you get nothing but push back here.
____________________________________________
Even less than that! I was not coy - this thread is for my rant. I said right off - you don't like it, go back to your other threads. sigkik won't be turning this into another HILLARY IS THE DEVIL RUSSIA TOLD ME SO tail chase.
My lord, they are so transparent! And yes, they are so Rappy Lol!
So, a reporter tweeted, regarding the Manafort/Ukraine bombshell, that more is coming later this week....
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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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I'm sorry, you quoted me so who exactly is your message directed at?
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Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Apparently you don't feel the need to address the USA abrogation of the ABM treaty nor the forward positioning of nuclear missiles on Russia's borders, which puts their nuclear missiles on hair-trigger. Because all of that, apparently, is somehow irrelevant to the potential of nuclear war. I guess you feel confident that Russia will back down forever.
Always pushing Russia's agenda. Hey comrade, if you think the rest of us haven't noticed that no one in these threads agrees with you or 1kiki, well we have.
Move on comrade, you get nothing but push back here.
____________________________________________
Even less than that! I was not coy - this thread is for my rant. I said right off - you don't like it, go back to your other threads. sigkik won't be turning this into another HILLARY IS THE DEVIL RUSSIA TOLD ME SO tail chase.
My lord, they are so transparent! And yes, they are so Rappy Lol!
So, a reporter tweeted, regarding the Manafort/Ukraine bombshell, that more is coming later this week....
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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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I'm sorry, you quoted me so who exactly is your message directed at?
____________________________________________
Yeah sorry, that was unclear. I meant sigkik will get even less than push back from me, and the rest of my post was to them.
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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Apparently you don't feel the need to address the USA abrogation of the ABM treaty nor the forward positioning of nuclear missiles on Russia's borders, which puts their nuclear missiles on hair-trigger. Because all of that, apparently, is somehow irrelevant to the potential of nuclear war. I guess you feel confident that Russia will back down forever.
Always pushing Russia's agenda. Hey comrade, if you think the rest of us haven't noticed that no one in these threads agrees with you or 1kiki, well we have.
Move on comrade, you get nothing but push back here.
____________________________________________
Even less than that! I was not coy - this thread is for my rant. I said right off - you don't like it, go back to your other threads. sigkik won't be turning this into another HILLARY IS THE DEVIL RUSSIA TOLD ME SO tail chase.
My lord, they are so transparent! And yes, they are so Rappy Lol!
So, a reporter tweeted, regarding the Manafort/Ukraine bombshell, that more is coming later this week....
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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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I'm sorry, you quoted me so who exactly is your message directed at?
____________________________________________
Yeah sorry, that was unclear. I meant sigkik will get even less than push back from me, and the rest of my post was to them.
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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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Thank you for clarifying. At first I was like yea! I then immediately went to wait a minute. lol
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Predictably, you ignored the deal.
You mean this one?
But if you continue to be incapable of dispassionate logic and reasonable discussion, falling back to name-calling and whinging when others don't agree with you ..."
Well, apparently you're not up for facts, logic and reason, either. In fact, when presented with them you posted This thread is not a point for point debate, because, apparently, you don't like point for point facts. And you reverted to name-calling and whinging when others don't agree with you ... As in Going point for point with you two leads no where, as there is ample evidence. You manipulate, you lie, you mislead, then you namecall.
Yes, that's your excuse for failing to address my posts in a reasonable, fact-based, honest way.
Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!
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Quote:If you had focused on the issues ... yanno, paid attention to the facts I brought to the thread, I wouldn't personally be "the center of attention".
Predictably, you ignored the deal. You attempted to take over the thread with your usual nonsense, making yourself the center of attention that you so crave to be.
Because, trust me, I'm not trying to be the focus of your snark and derision!
I would much rather that attention be focused on the facts at hand: That we would be able to look at some event dispassionately and in common, and discuss on the basis of reason and evidence whether or not it was adequately and honestly portrayed, and what it might mean for our collective future, if anything.
Doesn't that sound like a better alternative than name-calling and whinging?
--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:If you had focused on the issues ... yanno, paid attention to the facts I brought to the thread, I wouldn't personally be "the center of attention".
Predictably, you ignored the deal. You attempted to take over the thread with your usual nonsense, making yourself the center of attention that you so crave to be.
Because, trust me, I'm not trying to be the focus of your snark and derision!
I would much rather that attention be focused on the facts at hand: That we would be able to look at some event dispassionately and in common, and discuss on the basis of reason and evidence whether or not it was adequately and honestly portrayed, and what it might mean for our collective future, if anything.
Doesn't that sound like a better alternative than name-calling and whinging?
--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
And sigkik is too cowardly to agree to the deal to let reality rule.
Is anyone surprised?
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Gosh, I'm so sorry you can't read!
I thought I addressed it.
Mal
If Hillary wins and these is no nuclear Armageddon
kiki
It depends on why not. If we're rescued from nuclear Armageddon by some third factor swooping in deus ex machina style, then no, it doesn't count for Hillary, her administration, or the democratic party.
Mal
If there is a President Trump and the country survives four years with anything close to status quo
Kiki
And it doesn't mean his agenda will necessarily go forward either, since republicans don't have a filibuster-proof majority in the senate.
But that does depend on senate democrats doing right by their constituency. How confident are you that they will? If you're not, then there's a deeper rot in the party than just Hillary.
Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!
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Quote:
And sigkik is too cowardly to agree to the deal to let reality rule.- MAL4
What "deal" is that?
To tell you the truth, I didn't even read your posts. I did alt+edit+find for "deal" and didn't see any "deal" in your posts. So to keep me from having to wade thru your posts, can you please re-state what "deal" this is?
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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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Quote:I got as far as this. After that, I stopped reading because MAL4 just started posting nastiness. Why should I read further?
I've seen what you did in the Russia threads. I've also seen that just before I started this thread you were insulting me in another thread. And now you're trying to be my bud?-MAL4
As for that "deal" that she said she offered... I'm still waiting for an explanation about what that is supposed to be. I mean, if she's going to insult me over it, she should at least explain what the point of the insult is.
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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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Donald Trump's once-masterful "attention at any cost" strategy has turned into a disaster
Updated by Matthew Yglesias on August 16, 2016, 9:00 a.m.
www.vox.com/2016/8/16/12484408/trump-media-feud
The goal of complaining about media bias is, normally, to make journalists second-guess themselves and start bending over backward to be more fair in the future. Trump’s habit of portraying himself as genuinely hostile to the principles of American press freedom tend to accomplish the opposite, emboldening skeptical reporters to see negative coverage as a patriotic duty.
Trump’s only hope for turning the ship around is to do exactly what he’s been refusing to do the entire campaign — pivot, and start running a lower-key, more disciplined, less egomaniacal campaign that’s less about his grudges and attention-seeking behavior and more about focus-grouped slams on Clinton. The hundreds of Republican Party elected officials around the country who have their fates partially yoked to his have been urging such a move for months, and it’s always possible in theory that it would happen.
But Trump has been playing the attention-seeking game for decades now, and so far his response to its inefficacy in a general election has been more thrashing. Counting on the leopard to change his spots would be a serious mistake.
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Quote:I have actually listened to Trumps speeches. Have you?
Trump’s only hope for turning the ship around is to do exactly what he’s been refusing to do the entire campaign — pivot, and start running a lower-key, more disciplined, less egomaniacal campaign that’s less about his grudges and attention-seeking behavior and more about focus-grouped slams on Clinton.
I just half-listened to his economic policy speech, and despite the fact that it was disrupted about a dozen times by freedom-of-speech-loving-liberals, Trump did not respond in any way. I listened to his press conference in FLA. He just gave a speech a few days ago, which I heard parts of.
Only someone who has not actually listened to his speeches would characterize his campaign as you have.
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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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Quote:I have listened to Trump's speeches. Only someone who has not understood what Trump said would characterize his campaign as you have. Do you "feel" about Trump rather than "think" about Trump's policies?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I have actually listened to Trumps speeches. Have you?
Only someone who has not actually listened to his speeches would characterize his campaign as you have.
Throughout the campaign, Trump has indicated that as president, one of his top priorities will be to make it easier to stifle media criticism of himself:
Trump has vowed to "open up the libel laws" to make it easier to deploy litigation and threats of litigation to silence criticism.
www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/02/donald-trump-libel-laws-219866
Trump vowed to use the president's regulatory authority to damage the business interests of investors in media companies that criticize him.
www.vox.com/2016/5/13/11669850/donald-trump-threatens-amazon
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As I have pointed out .... over and over and over ... there are only a few things President can accomplish internally. A President's greatest authority is as Commander in Chief, instigator of "deals" (trade deals like the TPP, foreign policy deals like with Iran, climate change, and others) and destroyer of nations. And right now, my most pressing concern has been the USA foreign policy of destroying or destabilizing nations left and right, and the so-called "free" trade deals (TTP, TTIP) - policies which Hillary, as President, would continue or even exacerbate. I guess you could say I'm a nationalist and Hillary is not.
Fractional reserve banking is probably the highest on my list, but NOBODY is going to tackle that one! Climate change is also one of my top priorities, and that is one place where Trump and I part ways.
Illegal immigrants are further down, but they are a grating presence. How can anyone say they respect the laws of the USA if the first thing they do is break the law in order to work here?
And there's one thing you can say about me: I didn't come up with these concerns because of Trump's campaign. I have been posting about them over and over for -literally- years.
So Hillary's history hits very negatively on my very top priorities. And all of the internal stuff she promises will never be accomplished. Things like gay rights ... it goes without saying that everyone should get a fair shot at everything. But if we make fewer foreign enemies (and avoid nuclear holocaust) and get better paying jobs, that benefits everyone- men and women, old and young, straight and otherwise, white and otherwise, religious or not, highly-educated or not so much.
In reality, I'll probably vote for either Jill Stein or Gary Johnson. There are many places where his goals and my goals don't jibe. But if he stands a chance at winning, then I'll vote for him. It depends where he is, poll-wise, in my state on election day.
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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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Quote:Haken created this forum for real world events discussion, not as a place for people to gang up on someone and treat them to an endless barrage of name-calling. When he looked at the thread, in HIS estimation is was trolling. So you should take a lesson from that: Don't be a troll.
Kind of like having a thread exiled to Troll Country.
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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Kind of like having a thread exiled to Troll Country.
Awesome! What thread was this?
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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Haken created this forum for real world events discussion, not as a place for people to gang up on someone and treat them to an endless barrage of name-calling. When he looked at the thread, in HIS estimation is was trolling. So you should take a lesson from that: Don't be a troll.
Kind of like having a thread exiled to Troll Country.
Your problem SIG is that I don’t hide from what I am doing when I post in the real-world thread; you do. I mostly post to unmask you so others can see you for the phony that you are. I do this because you are one dimensional. There is a years’ worth of posts here where we can see you sham outrage over certain behaviors, and when those behaviors lead to terrible events. Then excuse or deny those very same behaviors completely when it comes to others, who are, many times perpetrating worse actions and deeds.
You corrupt the real world thread when you post. Come clean and the honest discussion you claim to want will be forthcoming to you. You see the rest of us are already having those discussions.
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Haken created this forum for real world events discussion, not as a place for people to gang up on someone and treat them to an endless barrage of name-calling.
Kind of like having a thread exiled to Troll Country.
Something you and Kiki have done to "THUGR" and "GSTRING" and "KRAPO" - so that's another one of your lies. Should I list all of your insults?Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
When he looked at the thread, in HIS estimation is was trolling. So you should take a lesson from that: Don't be a troll.
I'm thinking he showed you favor for your years of posting and wanted to be done with you quickly.
RWED used to a wonderful oasis for free speech. That's what made it so unique and so special (along with the posters). Now it's run to daddy when your feelings are hurt or you can't get your way and threaten to do it again.
We have been dealing with SIG and 1kiki's lies for god knows how long now. You much longer than me. What's my point?
SIG is full of shit. Until I learn otherwise I will believe her story of speaking with Haken, and his so called response is nothing more than a fabricated story.
Her next move would be to fabricate an email of sorts except now she knows I am waiting for it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Kind of like having a thread exiled to Troll Country.
Awesome! What thread was this?
It's a good one, as I said in the thread, might be her spazzed-out Trolling Opus.
I offered an article about ... Russian Trolls, because it is a real thing, and she went bonkers.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60719
Highlights:
...
Holy shit you hit a nerve lol. Wow. Who knew that sig really is a Russian troll. Makes sense. No wonder her posts are so long and repetitive. She must get paid by the word lol.
You think she got it sent to troll land on purpose? I mean, that article describes her and kik to a T. She certainly must not want posters to see it.
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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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Ok, now that I've looked at it...
What I love about that thread is how there was never a moment of sigkik replying: "hmm. Russian trolls. How strange! What might me behind such strange news?"
Nope. Sig's response from the get go was FUCK YOU FUCK YOU. She took the OP to be an accusation of herself as if she she knew it should be. That's quite telling. She assumed it was an accusation of her because she know she should be accused.
The sad thing: she's not even a good troll. Too transparent. Perhaps that is why she's stuck posting at this quiet small world of a website for fractions of a penny pe
r word. She's not up to handling higher traffic sites.
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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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Quote:Yup, that's me! A real Manchurian candidate! It was so clever of Putin to put me on this board in 2002, don't you think?
Wow. Who knew that sig really is a Russian troll.
HAHAHAHA!
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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Yup, that's me! A real Manchurian candidate! It was so clever of Putin to put me on this board in 2002, don't you think?
Wow. Who knew that sig really is a Russian troll.
HAHAHAHA!
I will repost why it is obvious you are a Russian Toll because you never acknowledged this post. And realize we are not so stupid that we believe you have to have more than Russian sympathies to post like a troll on their behalf.
It is because you keep defending every thing Russia does. And it doesn't matter how bad it is. If you were American as you claim, there's no way you would do that. It's like the Russian professor says and I quote “You don’t understand. We’re Russians, we will never admit guilt to outsiders, especially to Americans. Even if we know we’re guilty.”
Yet you and 1kiki constantly bash America while defending Russia. No American would ever do that. It's a dead give away. Simply to most but apparently way over your head comrade.
As I have said many times. You two ain't that bright. You think you are but all you do is cut and paste. Most times your comments don't support what you have pasted. This is why your arguments get picked apart and destroyed by the other posters here. Again simple, you are dishonest, a troll, and easy to expose as such.
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And the Trump campaign has yet another spasm. I won't bother with links, since it's all over the news.
I think the funniest part is that it was announced at like 3:30 in the morning. Poor wittle Drumph was up all night having a temper tantrum LOL! Not surprisingly, he blames his falling poll numbers on his staff. Apparently, if he had just spent the last few weeks really being himself, rather than pivoting and being all PC and teleprompter and all that, he'd be just fine!
So now's in bed with Ailes and the guy from Breitbert. Not just Breitbert, but a history with Goldman Sachs. And yet Trumpsters get all over Hillary for connections to big banks. *smh*
If this election were a novel, I wouldn't believe a bit of it. Too contrived and silly!
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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
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Neat, randomly finding a Mal4Prez post on my periodic check ins
Quote:
Inequality. The government not serving the good of the People. All the plebs of the world know that the system is broken, even if they don't know who to blame and how to fix it.
You're probably not surprised that I agree with this.
As for Trump, it's not like this downward slide is him suddenly saying things that he hasn't been saying all along. I'd say that fear and tribalism think can smooth out even the worst flaws and delete entire moments from memory.
And, unfortunately, I think that him saying the things people are finally noticing him saying is not going to be enough to stop a good part of America from voting for him. My Always Republican Grandmother is afraid of because she literally sees him and sees the reaction to him and remembers German rallies in 1930. People have been swept away by the personality cult. People are saying to themselves "he says what we're all thinking" and somehow this makes them want to worship the guy.
I almost think Trump is saying what a lot of politicians think, including some on the left, he's just not hiding it anymore that this is how they think. Because of the party system, here we are, being herded into lines for the meat processing plant, by people who share politician interests, and not the interests of the country in general. A country that is supposed to celebrate it's freedom of religion and freedom of speech and diversity getting destroyed from within by a subset of people who tell us all to stay in our place and never hope for better.
Quote:
Kittens. We need more kittens. I have a kitten in my lap right now. This makes everything better.
At this point, tiny things like animals and hobbies are all we can take solace in, and even that's depressing, because it's a bandage over the pain and fear we're all experiencing, situations that I'm not sure we can do anything about anymore.
I used to fight against the idea of apathy and nihilism, and at this point I've succumbed to it. I'm a total loser. But what else can we do? Other people are driving this car, the doors are locked, and we're heading for the cliff.
I try to convince myself that we can weather this no matter what and that the powers that be just want us to panic. Well it's working.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Neat, randomly finding a Mal4Prez post on my periodic check insQuote:
Inequality. The government not serving the good of the People. All the plebs of the world know that the system is broken, even if they don't know who to blame and how to fix it.
You're probably not surprised that I agree with this.
As for Trump, it's not like this downward slide is him suddenly saying things that he hasn't been saying all along. I'd say that fear and tribalism think can smooth out even the worst flaws and delete entire moments from memory.
And, unfortunately, I think that him saying the things people are finally noticing him saying is not going to be enough to stop a good part of America from voting for him. My Always Republican Grandmother is afraid of because she literally sees him and sees the reaction to him and remembers German rallies in 1930. People have been swept away by the personality cult. People are saying to themselves "he says what we're all thinking" and somehow this makes them want to worship the guy.
I almost think Trump is saying what a lot of politicians think, including some on the left, he's just not hiding it anymore that this is how they think. Because of the party system, here we are, being herded into lines for the meat processing plant, by people who share politician interests, and not the interests of the country in general. A country that is supposed to celebrate it's freedom of religion and freedom of speech and diversity getting destroyed from within by a subset of people who tell us all to stay in our place and never hope for better.Quote:
Kittens. We need more kittens. I have a kitten in my lap right now. This makes everything better.
At this point, tiny things like animals and hobbies are all we can take solace in, and even that's depressing, because it's a bandage over the pain and fear we're all experiencing, situations that I'm not sure we can do anything about anymore.
I used to fight against the idea of apathy and nihilism, and at this point I've succumbed to it. I'm a total loser. But what else can we do? Other people are driving this car, the doors are locked, and we're heading for the cliff.
I try to convince myself that we can weather this no matter what and that the powers that be just want us to panic. Well it's working.
Don’t worry BYTEMITE, Trump isn’t going to come close to winning. Why the hoopla? The misunderstanding of the public about what is going on. First Trump did well with the hardline Republican voter. The ones that vote in primaries. Not so much with everyone else. That’s about 30% of Republicans. In the general election he is getting killed. An apparently little known fact is that he is doing worse than Romney. Secondly, many of thee uneducated White male voters that are still Trump supporters are doing so for reasons not discussed.
Appalachia includes portions of 13 states, reaching from southern New York to northern Mississippi. It contains 398 counties in the following states: Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia. West Virginia is the only state that the region completely covers. The region is rural and urban, rich and poor.
In the region there are mountain folk, city folk, country folk, coal miners and steel workers, union workers and non-union workers, industrial workers and service workers, farmers and farm laborers, housewives and children, teachers and health workers, ministers and rabbis and priests, artists and poets, professionals, and technicians, lawyers and politicians, lobbyists and interest groups, executives and managers, little business people and big business people, coal companies and chemical companies, and industrialists and bankers
It is the coal miners, steel workers, union workers and non-union workers, industrial workers and service workers, farmers
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Quote:
Don’t worry BYTEMITE, Trump isn’t going to come close to winning.
Even if he doesn't, there are reasons why it's disturbing he had this much support.
I'm willing to say that Sig and Kiki have reasons for supporting him that are nothing like the reasons I think other people are supporting him. I see a lot of intolerance and and even violence from the people who aren't Sig and Kiki though.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
Don’t worry BYTEMITE, Trump isn’t going to come close to winning.
Even if he doesn't, there are reasons why it's disturbing he had this much support.
I'm willing to say that Sig and Kiki have reasons for supporting him that are nothing like the reasons I think other people are supporting him. I see a lot of intolerance and and even violence from the people who aren't Sig and Kiki though.
Hate exists everywhere. If you see six thousand racist people attending a rally in Florida, remember the population in that state is twenty million. Also remember hate extends from both parties. Each side has been so demonized a third or so on both sides vote parties lines regardless. I would point out we see that here with our own. We both have witnessed absolute crazy talk here.
I have a friend from school. She is young and asks why. I remind her of how things were in the past. That we just happen to be living in this time frame. Things have gotten much better and will continue to do so.
I hope you understand what I mean when I say, the middle will hold.
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Quote:Which post?
I will repost why it is obvious you are a Russian Toll because you never acknowledged this post
I'm not going to respond on this "Russian troll" stupidity anymore. Dood, here's a tip: Click on MY NAME. Yep, click on SIGNYM. It will take you to my profile, and in that profile you will see that I've been here, posting under this name since 2002. And, posting essentially the same things since then.
So, what are you saying? That the Russian government put me on this no-account website in 2002 because I "might" be useful "some day"?
That nobody noticed that I was a "Russian troll" for 14 years, until you came along?
Sheesh. Dood, NOBODY (currently) on this board is that delusional, not even you.
Nope, you only want to keep pushing that stupidity so you can discredit my posts without even arguing the arguments, so if anyone is a paid troll, it's you.
Now, Haken does govern with a very light hand. He's allowed a full-on borderline (or maybe not so borderline) schizo- PIRATENEWS - to post endless rants about MKUltra and the personal persecution that he was being subject to.
And for a while, posting really disgusting images was all the rage. Does anyone remember "tub girl"?
It's doubtful that you would be removed to Troll Country. But out of all of the posters that I've interacted with over my 14 years here, you really do stand out as a jerk.
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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Which post?
I will repost why it is obvious you are a Russian Toll because you never acknowledged this post
I'm not going to respond on this "Russian troll" stupidity anymore. Dood, here's a tip: Click on MY NAME. Yep, click on SIGNYM. It will take you to my profile, and in that profile you will see that I've been here, posting under this name since 2002. And, posting essentially the same things since then.
So, what are you saying? That the Russian government put me on this no-account website in 2002 because I "might" be useful "some day"?
That nobody noticed that I was a "Russian troll" for 14 years, until you came along?
Sheesh. Dood, NOBODY (currently) on this board is that delusional, not even you.
Nope, you only want to keep pushing that stupidity so you can discredit my posts without even arguing the arguments, and if anyone is a paid troll, it's you.
We are not so stupid that we believe you have to have more than Russian sympathies to post like a troll on their behalf.
You keep defending every thing Russia does. And it doesn't matter how bad it is. All others need do is read your posts regarding Russia over the last year. Not only have you not criticized ANYTHING Putin has done, you have been caught lying and denying the truth on his behalf. In EVERY post of yours SIG regarding Russia. Its here for all the read. Then compare that to the constant assault by you against America. If you were American as you claim, there's no way you would do that. No way at all SIG. It's like the Russian professor says and I quote “You don’t understand. We’re Russians, we will never admit guilt to outsiders, especially to Americans. Even if we know we’re guilty.”
Yet you and 1kiki constantly bash America while defending Russia. I'll say it again SIG, no American would ever do that. It's a dead give away. Simply to most but apparently way over your head comrade.
This is all of your doing SIG. The facts speak for themselves.
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Quote:I don't even know what "Russian sympathies" means... it's a McCarthy-era phrase that;s designed to elicit fear, but kind of dissolves when you think about it.
We are not so stupid that we believe you have to have more than Russian sympathies to post like a troll on their behalf.
I personally DO NOT CARE what Russia does or doesn't do, unless it affects our national security. And by that I mean OUR national security. Not Saudi Arabia's, not Iraq's, not Latvia's, not Japan's, not Venezuela's, and not any of the other hundreds of nations with whom we seem to have mentally conflated "our" security.
Is Europe threatened by Russia? Fine, let them stand up an army. Is Japan threatened by Russia? Same deal. An "alliance" is where nations defend each other. Right now, neither the EU nor Japan nor Saudi Arabia would be prepared to defend us, so why are we bleeding our Treasury for them?
I think you should think carefully about the kind of risk that Russia poses TO US. Because it DOES pose risks, and that is a topic worthy of sensible discussion, not fear-mongering.
--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:I don't even know what "Russian sympathies" means... it's a McCarthy-era phrase that;s designed to elicit fear, but kind of dissolves when you think about it.
We are not so stupid that we believe you have to have more than Russian sympathies to post like a troll on their behalf.
I personally DO NOT CARE what Russia does or doesn't do, unless it affects our national security. And by that I mean OUR national security. Not Saudi Arabia's, not Iraq's, not Latvia's, not Japan's, not Venezuela's, and not any of the other hundreds of nations with whom we seem to have mentally conflated "our" security.
Is Europe threatened by Russia? Fine, let them stand up an army. Is Japan threatened by Russia? Same deal. An "alliance" is where nations defend each other. Right now, neither the EU nor Japan nor Saudi Arabia would be prepared to defend us, so why are we bleeding our Treasury for them?
I think you should think carefully about the kind of risk that Russia poses TO US. Because it DOES pose risks, and that is a topic worthy of sensible discussion, not fear-mongering.
A sensible discussion about Russia with either you or 1kiki is not possible. G, KPO and I have been trying to do just that. The facts show for more than a year you two have been Putin's biggest advocates. You keep lying and denying facts when it comes to Russia. On top of that, in all our discussions you have been posting from sources like zero hedge who's writers hide their identities. Your only requirement before you post it here has been, that they are negative stories about America and our allies.
No comrade, a sensible discussion about Russia with you is not possible.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
Don’t worry BYTEMITE, Trump isn’t going to come close to winning.
Even if he doesn't, there are reasons why it's disturbing he had this much support.
More than just "reasons." It's fucking illuminating. That's the backbone of my rant: people would not be supporting this con-man whacked out insane-in-the-membrane loser if the system hadn't failed them completely and forced them off the edge. It's just sad that so many voters react in a way that will do nothing but hurt all of us. The thing that they hope will cure what ails them will only do damage they can't even comprehend because they are so brain-washed by the last half century of GOP hate.
But it's true and scary: a sizeable fraction of Americans react to the economic imbalance by embracing hate rather than reason. It's a thought I've had often since the election of 2000: if a large part of our society chooses *this kind of shit* (GWB, Palin, Trump), we would deserve to fail.
Hopefully we will not suck that bad and we'll pull it back.
Quote:
I'm willing to say that Sig and Kiki have reasons for supporting him that are nothing like the reasons I think other people are supporting him. I see a lot of intolerance and and even violence from the people who aren't Sig and Kiki though.
What reasons do you see for sigkik? I am quite curious.
And, more importantly, how the hell are you Byte? Been a long time!
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
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Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
Don’t worry BYTEMITE, Trump isn’t going to come close to winning.
Even if he doesn't, there are reasons why it's disturbing he had this much support.
More than just "reasons." It's fucking illuminating. That's the backbone of my rant: people would not be supporting this con-man whacked out insane-in-the-membrane loser if the system hadn't failed them completely and forced them off the edge. It's just sad that so many voters react in a way that will do nothing but hurt all of us. The thing that they hope will cure what ails them will only do damage they can't even comprehend because they are so brain-washed by the last half century of GOP hate.
But it's true and scary: a sizeable fraction of Americans react to the economic imbalance by embracing hate rather than reason. It's a thought I've had often since the election of 2000: if a large part of our society chooses *this kind of shit* (GWB, Palin, Trump), we would deserve to fail.
Hopefully we will not suck that bad and we'll pull it back.Quote:
I'm willing to say that Sig and Kiki have reasons for supporting him that are nothing like the reasons I think other people are supporting him. I see a lot of intolerance and and even violence from the people who aren't Sig and Kiki though.
What reasons do you see for sigkik? I am quite curious.
And, more importantly, how the hell are you Byte? Been a long time!
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Battle is the Great Redeemer. It is the fiery crucible in which true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in.
*-----------------------------------------------------------------*
Sure, right, about 30 % of the Republican Party are bigots and isolationists. That is why libertarians do so well as republicans. And the press makes sure to focus on those who are. It sells papers. And I don’t think all Trump supporters embrace hate rather than want change. Let’s also not forget he is being destroyed by someone who would lose if she was up against anyone else.
I agree about Palin and Trump. I would add Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck. They are nothing but destructive forces who spread lies and hate for personal gain. It is absolutely incredible how they distort the facts and how many buy into it. However I just graduated from a University and during my time there I heard a constant drum beat against White people. When we discussed other races and ethnicities we would describe their favoritism towards each as normal. It is just one culture being proud of itself. Preferring each other’s company for cultural reasons. When the teachers, and now much of the country talk about Whites, it is described as White privilege. Not as a culture taking pride in itself, but instead as being a destructive force. I had a porta Rican teacher who changed the definition of racism so only Whites could be labeled as such; or so she thought. You cannot be racist unless you are in a position to deny resources to another she would say. That is not the definition of racism. She came to this country as a teen and went to an Ivy League school while barely speaking English. She now has a Master’s Degree. When you hear her story you realize what a great country this is. She received scholar ships over naturalized citizens and other support in all shapes and forms. So what is her opinion of this country? She teaches that all of our institutions are designed to benefit Whites only and she does not trust any police officers at all. The list goes on, and on, and on.
I would add that only five of my twenty five class mates were white. Most of the others migrated here as children. The rest where the first generation of parents who migrated here. Get my point?
S
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
A sensible discussion about Russia with either you or 1kiki is not possible. G, KPO and I have been trying to do just that. The facts show for more than a year you two have been Putin's biggest advocates. You keep lying and denying facts when it comes to Russia. On top of that, in all our discussions you have been posting from sources like zero hedge who's writers hide their identities. Your only requirement before you post it here has been, that they are negative stories about America and our allies.
No comrade, a sensible discussion about Russia with you is not possible.
That's it in a nutshell, sadly. There's plenty more of course, but who wants to take the time.
I provided the link to the TED TALK I suggested in my last post right about this. You should check it out.
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Quote:Thanks to Bernie, there is a report written by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) that was issued today. It has bad news for people in the bottom 50%, which never had much wealth in the first place and now it has less than it did 25 years ago:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
. . .people would not be supporting this con-man whacked out insane-in-the-membrane loser if the system hadn't failed them completely and forced them off the edge. . . .
But it's true and scary: a sizeable fraction of Americans react to the economic imbalance by embracing hate rather than reason.
Trends in Family Wealth, 1989 to 2013
August 18, 2016 Report www.cbo.gov/publication/51846
From 1989 to 2013, family wealth grew at significantly different rates for different segments of the U.S. population, and the distribution among the nation’s families was more unequal in 2013 than it had been in 1989.
The wealthiest 10 percent of Americans now hold three-quarters of the nation's wealth, up from two-thirds in 1989, and a three percentage-point increase from the start of the recession. Most Americans found themselves with less wealth in 2013 than Americans of a similar age had in 1989; the only age group doing better than its counterparts from a quarter-century ago was senior citizens.
The report was commissioned at the request of Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who made inequality a central theme of his run for the Democratic presidential nomination this year. In a statement, he said the analysis "makes clear that since the 1980s there has been an enormous transfer of wealth from the middle class and the poor to the wealthiest people in this country.”
CBO shows that the median family had about the same amount of wealth — roughly $80,000 — in 2013 as it did in 1989, after adjusting for inflation. The average family in the top 10 percent had $4.1 million in wealth, up from $2.15 million in 1989. Both groups had substantially more wealth before the recession hit, but those at the top have seen theirs bounce back at a much faster rate than those in the middle.
The story at the very bottom is much worse.
Americans who live in poverty, or even at the lower end of the middle class, have never had much wealth. They don't tend to play the stock market much, or even own their own houses. From 1989 to 2007, the average family in the bottom 25 percent of the wealth distribution found itself with around $1,000 in debt. After the recession that average debt ballooned to $13,000 per family.
More than half of the homeowners at that bottom end of the wealth distribution were underwater on their mortgages in 2013, the CBO reported, meaning they owe more than their homes are worth. That's up from 10 percent underwater before the recession.
www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2016/08/18/the-wealthy-have-n
early-healed-from-recession-the-poor-havent-even-started/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
A sensible discussion about Russia with either you or 1kiki is not possible. G, KPO and I have been trying to do just that. The facts show for more than a year you two have been Putin's biggest advocates. You keep lying and denying facts when it comes to Russia. On top of that, in all our discussions you have been posting from sources like zero hedge who's writers hide their identities. Your only requirement before you post it here has been, that they are negative stories about America and our allies.
No comrade, a sensible discussion about Russia with you is not possible.
That's it in a nutshell, sadly. There's plenty more of course, but who wants to take the time.
I'm perfectly capable of having a sensible talk about Russia, and Russia's THREAT POTENTIAL TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. When Putin says... The next war isn't going to be like the last one, where the USA got to sit it out. If you threaten Russia, we will obliterate you with nuclear weapons yanno what?
I TAKE THAT AS A THREAT, and so should you. But somehow, that particular threat seems to have gotten very little traction in all of your discussions. There are other things that I see as Russia's other real threats to the USA, which also haven't figured in any discussions.
But this discussion belongs elsewhere. And so it has been copied here: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60755
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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.
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FWIW
-- I -- was the one who pointed out that thread to Haken. WHAT I SAID was that it was a thread deliberately tilted and posted as DEVOTED TO ATTACKING Signy and me - and that I didn't think it belonged in RWE, but in Troll Country. And HAKEN apparently AGREED with me, because, in under 15 minutes, it was gone.
If you don't like what Haken did, or you're upset with him infringing on your free speech trolling, or you're confused about why he did it, ask him. Don't troll us more with your made-up 'reasons' for why HAKEN sent YOUR thread there.
MAN UP AND ASK HIM. Assuming of course you really want to know the answer.
Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!
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"Haken has better things to do than arbitrate what goes on here, so I'm guessing he obliged your whiny request as fast as he could."
You know what -- I -- got out of his fast response? That he monitors the emails he receives from the website. I honestly didn't expect any kind of response; or if he did respond, that I'd get an email as to why not; or if he did move it, it would happen in a week or so. He got the email, he read your thread, and he removed it ASAP. It's not something he does very often so I leave it up to YOU to ASK HIM why he did what he did.
EMAIL HIM.
PLEASE NOTE: there are laws forbidding you from revealing the contents of emails sent to you. So this would be for your education only.
But I can't believe you'd actually have to ask WHY a thread posted for the sole purpose of personally attacking two posters would go to Troll Country. If I were you, I'd be embarrassed asking Haken that question. The answer should be obvious.
Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!
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Take it up with Haken.
Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!
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Quote:
What reasons do you see for sigkik? I am quite curious.
And, more importantly, how the hell are you Byte? Been a long time!
They seem to think that a US Alliance with Russia might somehow stop all the middle east insanity, and that Trump has a better chance of making that happen. That's my impression at least. And I'm honestly not sure I can say whether they're right or wrong. The middle east is so messed up that who can predict anything out of that quagmire?
I don't like Trump because he is so loose with everything - finances, facts, inflammatory language. I have never particularly liked Hillary, she is a politician through and through and I don't think her war record can be trusted.
I can't even imagine the US with someone like Trump at the head of it though. It seems like he'd have a flame war with Kim Jung Un and a country would get nuked as a result. I'd like to think that if Trump was elected, he might have *sane* advisors, but I don't hold out hope.
Sorry for the belated response! As you see I don't spend much time around here. As a result (:P) I'm doing okay, much more stable than I used to be, less of a total asshole. I was in a bad way back when I was around here a lot, and I was so immature, and I tried to use my instability and depression to get sympathy from people. I was a terrible person - maybe I still am, it's hard to judge that. But there are at least some things that I don't do anymore, and so I'd like to think maybe I'm not so toxic.
How about you? Watching the country and election in shock? That's about all I can do with the news lately. Maybe doing more story writing?
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Um, other than the infinitely amusing fact that you obviously fancy yourselves intellectuals (given the way you talk down to other posters) and yet...
you
support
Drumph!!!!
That will never not be funny.
It is unfathomable how they can consider themselves many things - like passionate environmentalists - and yet support 'Rump. I suppose they will dodge and say, "we don't support Trump! We're just actively NOT supporting Hillary!" At this point whatever.
Stop me if you've heard this one: As Snigs and Kikstand are now part of FFF Team Trump, it puts them shoulder to shoulder with JSF and .... wait for it... Auraptor. Gah! The laughs will never end!
In historic break, Britain gives formal Brexit notice to European Union
“This is a historic moment from which there can be no turning back,” Prime Minister Theresa May announced to a momentarily hushed House of Commons, before debate later turned rowdy.
In Brussels, European Council President Donald Tusk said there was “no reason to pretend that this is a happy day.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in-historic-step-britain-ready-to
-give-formal-notice-it-is-leaving-the-european-union/2017/03/29/032c1176-13c5-11e7-bb16-269934184168_story.html?utm_term=.cf90d6712c82
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SIG says I'm a deep state troll.
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There won't be a European Union in a couple of years.
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I felt like that rant needed a few JEW tags, and at least one MKULTRA.
I find it ironic that todays left is panicking over the idea that Britain will become independent from Germany.
Also, that people pre-opposed the president, and still support Obama, see Germany, above.
But Russia...
Enough with all of this nonsense. Can we discuss issues one at a time?
ETA: Here's my election rant, re: enough already.
As for Trump, he's president because the people voted for him.
Anecdotally, it breaks down like this
Dems, Enthusiastic for Hillary (a couple)
"Hold you nose for Hillary" dems (lots of these)
Republicans, voted against Trump in the primary, for him in the general (lots of these)
Independents, first time vote for a major party candidate, Trump. (lots of these)
Sanders votes (like me) unable to vote for Hillary (lots of these)
Sanders voters voting for trump (a few of these)
I broke that down, anecdotally gathered atmosphere, because it's area independent. It's not that my area went for trump (it did by a hair) or that my state went against him (by a large margin) but rather that this is a sampling of how people were thinking relative to how they usually vote.
So, I don't logically see in that voting pattern how HRC could have won. She doesn't seem to have any voting block that was disaffected republicans, and she was hemorrhaging a large portion of the democratic vote, and hillary wasn't attracting independents, at all, whereas Trump was doing quite well with them.
There's just not a logical place where her new winning votes would have come from beside smartmatic voting machines.
Give that, he's a legit president in that he won the election by campaigning in inner cities and promising them jobs. It isn't rocket science.
I didn't vote for him, but a lot of people did, and I accept that he is now president, and if you want anything done, go through him. Whinging about losing the election won't accomplish anything.
"A dead dog would have won against Hillary Clinton." - Roger Daltrey of The Who
eta2: Any investigation into irregularities only seems to yield the result that Trump won by a larger magin than the official tally, implicating Soros et al. So, my take? If we wanted to win, we should have had Sanders as a candidate.
A little blame goes to the disaster that just left office and the party which supportd both Obama and HRC. Just like it would be hard for a republican to have won in 2008, similarly, would've been had for a Dem in 2016
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
There won't be a European Union in a couple of years.
Liberty and Freedom can be contagious.
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Quote:I checked: Brexit was a non-binding referendum resulting in 51.9% of voters voting in favour. Non-binding. Got it? Non-binding. How did it make the jump from non-binding to absolutely binding? Especially with only 51.9% voting for it as a big juicy FU to Europe. The Brits found out that this is more like dropping a 10 megaton H-bomb on Brussels than a yelling a verbal insult at Euro Bureaucrats.
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
I felt like that rant needed a few JEW tags, and at least one MKULTRA.
I find it ironic that todays left is panicking over the idea that Britain will become independent from Germany.
I do hope that if there is ever a binding referendum (rather than non-binding) to disband the United States into 50 separate countries, the decision point is set at 60% or even 2/3 majority. Fifty percent plus 1 makes it too easy to end the USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership
_referendum,_2016
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Says one of the people that was all for California leaving the US after Trump was elected president.
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Quote:You failed to keep up with the news. http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/europe/article-50-brexit-parliament-vote/ Article 50: UK parliament votes in favor of starting Brexit process
Originally posted by second:
I checked: Brexit was a non-binding referendum resulting in 51.9% of voters voting in favour. Non-binding. Got it? Non-binding. How did it make the jump from non-binding to absolutely binding?
Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.
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Quote:Did you miss this?
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:You failed to keep up with the news. http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/europe/article-50-brexit-parliament-vote/ Article 50: UK parliament votes in favor of starting Brexit process.
Originally posted by second:
I checked: Brexit was a non-binding referendum resulting in 51.9% of voters voting in favour. Non-binding. Got it? Non-binding. How did it make the jump from non-binding to absolutely binding?
Angela Merkel has rejected one of Theresa May’s key Brexit demands, insisting negotiations on Britain’s exit from the European Union cannot run in parallel with talks on the future UK-EU relationship.
“The negotiations must first clarify how we will disentangle our interlinked relationship,” the German chancellor said in Berlin. “Only when this question is dealt with can we – hopefully soon after – begin talking about our future relationship.”
I think Theresa May should pull a Winston Churchill and invade Europe on D-Day, I mean B-Day, for Brexit. The Royal Air Force can drop The Bomb on Berlin. After the British Army, assisted by Trump's Troops, capture Merkel in the Führerbunker, P.M. May will force her to give the Brits what they want: Their Freedom From Europe and those nasty refugees!
www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/angela-merkel-rejects-one-of-
theresa-mays-key-brexit-demands
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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There's no point in doing any of that Second.
Merkel's history in October. The EU will fall like dominoes in the next few years.
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
I checked: Brexit was a non-binding referendum resulting in 51.9% of voters voting in favour. Non-binding. Got it? Non-binding. How did it make the jump from non-binding to absolutely binding?
Quote:You very evidently DID miss the fact that the Parliament passed the Brexit vote and made it official.
Originally posted by 1kiki:
You failed to keep up with the news. http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/europe/article-50-brexit-parliament-vote/ Article 50: UK parliament votes in favor of starting Brexit process.
Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.
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Quote:I wonder. Germany hasn't felt the brunt of N African/ ME immigration problem.
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
There's no point in doing any of that Second.
Merkel's history in October. The EU will fall like dominoes in the next few years.
[img]
[/img]And Germany is the fat queen of the EU, extracting tribute from pretty much everyone else.
Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.
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Quote:Did Churchill wait for Hitler’s fall in 1945 before excluding Germans from the UK? Theresa May need not wait for Angela Merkel’s fall before excluding refugees. Why wait for Brexit details to be negotiated years from now when May already knows what Brexit voters wanted immediately: keep the funny-looking foreigners with odd accents out of England? Unless May is stalling for time.
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
There's no point in doing any of that Second.
Merkel's history in October. The EU will fall like dominoes in the next few years.
The Scots don’t care about refugees. Northern Ireland doesn’t care. Only England cares about keeping foreigners out of England. Let the Brexit voters have what they want and have it today: all foreigners out of England, except in London, Oxford and Cambridge. Even good old Wales has changed its mind over Brexit and would now vote to stay in the EU, poll finds.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/wales-has-changed-its-mind-over
-brexit-and-would-now-vote-to-stay-in-the-eu-poll-finds-a7120246.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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