Herc's Speculation about Giles in 4.10 -- Can it be true?
POSTED BY: Poster Nutbag
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 03:57
VIEWED: 17466
PAGE 3 of 6
Anyone else been to see the Two Towers? Gandalf's return? Anyone feel a resonance between that and a possible reason for Giles' behaviour? That scene where Buffy crawls out of the hole, and Giles looks down, encircled by a halo of brilliant light from the rising sun?
If there's a First Evil, what are the chances of a First Good? That'd explain Buffy's mom, Principal Woods (who I STILL don't believe is evil) and Giles.
If we take what he said as truth, that the First can only appear as someone who's passed away, then we can still have Dru and Buffy as faces of the evil, as they've both (at some point) passed away, even if they came back later. If a hypothetical First Good operates in the same manner (and that'd be a nice symmetry), then Giles could be dead after all, but returned to the Scoobs as a facet of the First Good. I know there's a lot of maybe's in this, but if you assume the existence of a First Good, the rest falls into place very naturally. Almost too naturally, actually :-) Joss never gives us what we expect, so who knows?
Here's a weird one, though. Think back. Pretty much all the recent episodes have taken place sequentially. I.e. there are no gaps between the episodes, each one picks up right where the last one left off, with no explained lapses of time. All the events have occurred over the space of a few days. And now it's Xmas, when by rights the timeline of the show should still have it a month or two back. OK, you think - maybe it's a massive continuity error. But if that were the case they'd try to cover it up, not draw attention to it - like Buffy blatantly does, for no obvious reason - "I can't believe it's December already". Is there something weird going on here? Where's the missing month or two?
Or maybe I'm overthinking it. I just can't see why they'd draw attention to such an obvious error of continuity...
Cheers,
Kithkill
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I really like the idea of a FirstGood. It makes perfect sense because without good, evil cannot exist.
And I'm another who'll be really disappointed if the principal is nasty, not that I have any ideas about him that are original...
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Buffy is dead. That's why Spike can hit her.
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I don't think that Joyce is really Joyce. She wouldn't be such a fatalist if it were. Joyce may not have always wanted Buffy to fight, in fact often she tried to get her not to. But she never said "don't fight because it's hopeless" it was usually more along the lines of "I don't want you to die" or "why don't you let Faith fight instead." Joyce wouldn't say "Evil has always been around, and therefore no need to fight." She may not be the first, but she's not Joyce.
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It's fruitless. No fruit for Buffy.
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Buffy died... but she's not dead. She's living breathing heart beating girl. She just has a deep, tropical, cellular tan.
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Quote:
I've got a different theory about Giles - its a slight of hand trick. We're being set up by Mutant Enemey to watch Giles. What we're not noticing is whats going on in the background. Sure, Giles just stood around most of the time - but so did the SIT's... what if Morphy WAS in this episode - but not as GILES
I think you may be right. Also, the SiT who got killed was the one that believed in Buffy the most, and I bet if one of the SiTs was Morphy (It's most likely Kennedy I think) it would try to kill off the strongest part of their "army".
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Joyce wouldn't say "Evil has always been around, and therefore no need to fight." She may not be the first, but she's not Joyce.
Yeah, I agree, cause if somehow dead people could come back as a ghost or whatever Joyce is in the buffyverse, Buffy would've done that when she died. I think the Joyce in Buffy's dream was just Buffy haveing a dream. Maybe it's some sort of psychological thing where she tries to convince herself its useless to fight, and that she should just give up (like in that epi in season 5), but then she got beat up by the uber-vamp and she changed her mind.
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buffy is dead enough for spike to hit her with his chip still in.
Besides the Big Bad appears as Spike and Drusilla.. both of which are dead in as much as they are vamps... but still wandering around the earth in undeath.
But the First NEVER appears as anyone who is alive (i.e. someone who's never been dead - as buff has... twice).
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Could that be because the resurrection spell was interupted so something didn't come along with Buffy? Just thinking....
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Ok, so this is my first post here. I'm a Joss fan and thus would love to see all three series continue as long as possible. Before I get to my point about Giles, let me just say a few things about my thoughts on Buffy in general so you can see where I'm coming from. I like all the seasons of Buffy. I'm not a Glory-hater or Dawn-hater or Riley-hater - I only started watching the series in its fourth season so I had to catch up with FX. If I had to give a least favorite season it would have to be the first for its all-too-often over-the-toppiness. Now I admit some of the other seasons have had their clunkers - some more than others - but as I said, I like all the seasons. In fact, some of the early eps this season have been clunkers IMO, a higher proportion too than other seasons' early eps IMO. OTOH, when the eps hit it right this season, they really hit it right. Ok, I only watched ep 7-10 yesterday and I happened to read this thread afterward. I know this has probably been brought up in other boards but I didn't see it here (and I don't have time for boards usually but it's the holidays and all), but one thing I noticed over and over is that Giles wants Buffy to sleep. Now what happens when Buffy sleeps? She sees and talks to her mom, right? Now this is either evil or good, but it happens. Now ASH's character, whoever he is, wants Buffy to go to sleep [remimnded me of Tom Servo in the one MST3K ep continually shouting "SLEEP!" to make fun of a hypnotist]. So IMO, ASH's character knows about what happens and wants her to talk more with her mom. So what's his motive and her mother's motive? Good/Evil? Don't know.
Speculation #1 - They are evil. This doesn't make sense to me because: 1. It's too obvious. 2. I don't think what her mom is telling her is necessarily counterproductive. Perhaps Buffy's declaration at the end of this ep is exactly what the first wants...
Speculation #2 - They are good. 1. The series borrows a lot from Christianity obviously. First season, Buffy dusts Master. Second season, Buffy defeats Angel and pushes him into Hell dimension. Third season, Buffy kills Mayor with explosion. Fourth season, Mega-Buffy rips out Adam's "heart." Fifth season, Buffy saves world with self-sacrifice. Sixth season, Xander saves world with love. Now, if we look at the Bible story [note: I am not trying to inject any religious views here, just trying to see parallels, please no flames], Jesus died and thus A. Rid the world of "real death" - we could now be saved from oblivion - Well, seasons 1 and 2 see "death" being killed in the forms of dead entities being defeated. B. Season 3 sees the killing of a snake - common baddie in the Bible. C. Season 4 has three Scoobs gathered (in his name?) to give buffy the power to defeat someting with the namesake of the original man who co-committed original sin. D. Now, that being said, if we take these last three seasons (5,6,7) we may see a pattern of the story of the crucifiction being used piecemeal each season. Fifth season has Buffy using self-sacrifice to stop the dimension walls from crumbling - self-sacrifice being one aspect of Jesus's crucifiction. Sixth season has Xander save the world through love - love being a reason Jesus dies for us. Because He loves us so much, He dies on a cross for us. Seventh season - what other aspect of the crucifiction have they not done? (Not that I can remember) Well, Jesus didn't fight back, he took it all and won the day through non-action. Is this the key to this season? Winning through peace and non-action? I don't know, but that's one speculation. 2. Perhaps ASH's character can't tell her everything for some reason - perhaps he is bound by something so that he can only suggest things "get some rest" (so that she can talk to her mother) but cannot tell her everything he knows - that this peace angle must be found by Buffy alone.
Well, those are the things I'm tossing around. And it doesn't matter to me whether anyone is dead on this show because as we have seen, it is possible in the Buffy/An
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This is all interesting speculation. I like it. not sure if I agree, but it's always fun to read another take.
Re: Giles pipe/glasses. He didn't have a pipe, that I saw throughout the episode. However, he does pull his glasses out of his pocket and put them on when Buffy falls into the cavern. I've never seen Giles walking around without his glasses on... wonder why they made the decision to have him wandering around without them, and to make such a pointed gesture of him grabbing them and putting them on?
Other than that, not so much as a friendly shoulder chuck, not so much as a single research book. No Giles contact with anyone or anything that I was able to spot in the 3 times I watched this episode.
Someone mentioned Willy the Snitch this season? I don't remember that. He hasn't been around for a couple seasons, that I can recall. Seems like we've seen a couple other bartenders around in the few times they've been into the demon bar (which no longer seems to have the "Willy's Place" neon sign).
#2, Amy... invisotext on:
Select to view spoiler:
lots of the spoiler sites have said that Amy will make an appearance very soon and may either throw a monkey wrench into things or help out... it's unclear so far.
#3, Angel Investigations:
Not sure why they haven't mentioned it. Or why Angel investigations haven't mentioned getting a Slayer involved in their big apocolypse. however (more inviso-text)
Select to view spoiler:
Wanda on Eonline has hinted that the 2 big uglies are connected in some way and this will become clear soon.
, although I'm not sure how much to trust her, as she's the only one saying it so far.
As for Joyce, I still say it's not her, whether she be good or evil, I don't think she's Joyce. And I'm pretty sure that Giles is really Giles, and ME is just messing with us by not letting him touch anyone or anything.
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One time you died, and I ended up a Mexican.
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