To those of us who just sold your country down the river...
POSTED BY: Clandestiny
UPDATED: Sunday, November 7, 2004 19:31
VIEWED: 18299
PAGE 6 of 8
I tend not to post too much because most people say what I would say myself. But, this mudslinging between people on this post is too much to pass up.
"Ding" the rounds over.
Lets all take a step back and calm down people. Some are taking the posts personal, retorting with posts agianst the person. If we are going to have this post, Like Gruesome said, lets keep it civil and focus on the actual points. Throwing out posts about who is acting like a child and what not are just gonna waste time. I mean it took me over 45 min to read all these(i could be a slow reader though) and maybe 6-10 actually were on topic.
But, thats just my oppinion feel free to blow me out of the water with snide comments and witty retorts.
Anyways...I'm 18 and im scared shitless(please excuse the language) that someday soon im gonna have to shoot a gun at someone. Personally i have been avoiding the political scene and all the information and misinformation that has been flying out of that area for a bit. So if you guys could do me a favor and fill me in i would be most appreciative. The main question i had is whats happing in afghanistan. I don't think i have heard of a whole lot coming out of there for a bit. I mean every couple days there some new bombing going on in Iraq. But, it seems the media powers are being a bit tight lipped about stuff going on in afghanistan. I mean considering that the 9/11 started there with a guy named Osama im just curious as to whats happening there. It was pretty smooth how that seemed to disappear in light of Iraq....
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Looks liek faux news helped out
http://www.moveon.org/foxad-QT.html
Quote:
...
Next one...2008
Be ready for Cheney ( Mr Apartheid ) as president
and the little hispanic dictator George Prescott Bush as VP
The Bush dynasty will continue....
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Quote:
Originally posted by gruesome:
Hey, high horse! Illinois resident here... how did YOUR state deliver?
My state is New York. Enough said.
Quote:
No thanks necessary though, your apparent scorn is all I need for motivation to help you.
You accuse me of riding the high horse?
Oh, kettle, thou art black.
As for the rest of this discussion, I've forgotten one of the rules I've always tried to live by, which is:
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."
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Quote:
Originally posted by firefloozysuzie:
Clandestiny, I'm with you.
And I too am very, very worried.
Well, it's going to be a long four years.
I'd better get some sleep while I can.
Hiya, Suzie. Long time no. Thanks for the support. We "raving lunatics" will have to stick together very closely in the next four years...
-----------------------------
"Take my love, take my land, take my wife -- please." -- Henny Youngman performs the Firefly Theme.
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As an american/kiwi expat overseas I am the one who has to put up with the shit from our current "aggressive" administration.
While you all drive around in your SUVs bitching about the Red Soxs I have to hear people belittle and tear down my favorite (note the lack of an U!) country. As a tree hugging liberal I am seeing all my rights and yours disappearing around us. Fundemental (in my humble opion anyway) rights such as the right to a have an abortion or the union of two people in love (gay or not) are being challenged. We are destroying ourselves and that "freedom" of which we are so proud of. America is no longer the land of the free it is the land of the "facist oil tycoons raping our country and the world to line their pockets". I came up with that one myself!
The "war on terror" is so very cheesy and fake even from here. The reason terroists bomb the crap out of the US is not becuase they dislike our freedom (i mean cmon who dislikes freedom?) its becuase our administration keeps attacking targets to benefit from them economically. Wake up and smell the air. The world is now less safe, people are less trusting, and the world in general chaos.
The damage done to Americas ties to the world, the American people (even though you arent feeling it just yet but you will :)) and the economy as a whole will take many decades to fix if they can be at all.
So as horrible as it sounds I hope the bush and his administration is "cut short", or maybe a civil war starts betwene the N and the S again :( or maybe Bush is impeached for thirty two counts of treason (or something)
I am not trying to insult anyone on this board. Thanks for listening to hear my rant.
Cheers,
Boyd
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Quote:
There is a certain... Smugness... that many on the left seem to have. As if they "get it" and those on the right do not.
I do notice this in the left. Those on the left tend to assume I don't understand what they are saying, rather than admitting the possibility that I do understand, and I find an insurmountable flaw in their argument.
I also notice this on the right, which frequently takes the form of my being wrong because their faith instructs them that I am wrong, or some such circular argument based upon an essentially emotional appeal.
And both sides assume they possess exactly one half of the total possible viewpoints.
Yippee.
I give up.
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It's not "bile," Gruesome. It's outrage and sadness and despair. It's not the "difference of opinion." It's the appalling dismissal of FACTS.
What you are misreading as "hatred" is the genuine
anguish and frustration of REAL patriots who
are watching America being dismantled
and subverted by a handful of extremists.
This election proved that it isn't that
difficult to fool 52% of the people.
Folks believe that "the Left" are Christian
haters and "Bush bashers" and "Liberals"
because there has been a careful campaign
to portray us as such, to keep folks from
looking too carefully at WHY half of the
country and most of the world is appalled
at what Cheney, Ashcroft, Karl Rove, Bush
etc. have done in the past four years.
Why do you think 61% of the country mistakenly
believes that Iraq was involved in the 9/11
attack? Why do you think GW Bush spent his
recent campaign demonizing Kerry rather than
pointing to his own record? Do you even remember
the George W. Bush who ran in 2000? Well, we
do. He told America anything he thought would
get him elected, then he turned around and
pursued a much more radical agenda.
The propagandists would have you believe
that Bush represents morality and Christian
values, and that the folks opposing him
are unpatriotic secularist wackos. Actually, we
are mostly people who reject the propagandist line
and get our news from a plurality of REAL
sources. We are people who can put what
the Bush Administration HAS ACTUALLY DONE beside what George W. Bush SAYS.
This is a guy who gets political gain from "supporting the troops"...
while cutting Veteran Benefits, sending in
unprepared reservists, and instituting an
"emergency" backdoor draft. This is a guy
who says he's heading up a "War on Terror"
while blithely introducing terror to Iraq, ignoring the Geneva Convention, sending
"suspected terrorist sympathizers" to proxy torturers, and illegally detaining hundreds of people in Guantanamo Bay for YEARS without due process.
This is not Conservative vs. Liberal
(Bush is a radical, not a conservative) nor
is it Christian vs. the heathens.
This is the watchful vs. the willingly misled.
And the watchful have every good
reason to be outraged....and very, very worried.
*EDited because I shouldn't try to
write this early in the morning :-)*
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Quote:
What you are misreading as "hatred" is the genuine
anguish and frustration of REAL patriots who
are watching America being dismantled
and subverted by a handful of extremists.
I understand what you are saying, but do not believe that I am misreading your words and actions. You help fuel those that disagree by providing them with quotes and bullet points to illustrate their points. You help feed into their image of you rather than dismantling it.
At the end of the day, results are what matter and I have a pretty strong opinion that I may be better at getting people to understand my points by not denigrating theirs and by not calling them names or generalizing them to their face and thus belittling what they have to say.
When I came into THIS thread, I generalized the left because people ought to be able to "speak to their people" in a frank and open way. And what happened? I got called a republican and told the state of the country is my fault! Not only that, the person most udnerstanding of my point and most willing to discuss it rationally is a freakin REPUBLICAN. (Well, you haven't been so bad)
Quote:
Folks believe that "the Left" are Christian
haters and "Bush bashers" and "Liberals"
because there has been a careful campaign
to portray us as such
I think that is only a tiny portion of what the left allows to be done to it by not pointing out that Michael Moore is NOT representative of a great number of people on the left.
When people are not capable of critical self-analysis, they never grow.
You're a bright guy. Lets look at just your last post and judge its merits and ability to sway people NOT to preach to the choir, ok?
"It's the appalling dismissal of FACTS."
Your view.
"a handful of extremists."
Call people a name.
"This election proved that it isn't that
difficult to fool 52% of the people."
Call people gullible.
"Do you even remember
the George W. Bush who ran in 2000?"
Condescending.
"The propagandists"
namecalling
"This is the watchful vs. the willingly misled."
Condescending
"And the watchful have every good
reason to be outraged....and very, very worried."
YES! And exactly why the rhetoric needs to be designed to actually open peoples minds NOT piss them off. This isn't a debate! You don't win and the other person loses. You either learn something about them and how to talk better with them or you do not.
Because the alternative to changing peoples minds are silly abortive attempts at "getting out the vote" and "vote or die".
There were MORE than enough votes to be had amongst the current registrations. But rather than trying to honestly convince people in EFFECTIVE ways, everyone was trying to browbeat everyone else.
"Why do you think 61% of the country mistakenly believes that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attack?"
Newsflash man, 40% of the country doesn't know who the Vice-President is. A lot of people don't know a lot of things. BUt it doesn't mean they want to be TOLD they are not too knowledgeable. Its all about sales...
Cheers,
Gruesome
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Suze, the only thing you left out was the systematic rape and torture of our environment. Which will continue unabated for the next 4 years.
To the rest of the world: please don't judge us by the populist vote. There were plenty of us who voted against Bush and had hopes for a (relatively) peaceful resolution to all the rancor across the globe, a safer future for our children, and better lives for us all. We had a lot of hope.
All I can say is God help us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"My office! Burgled! Plundered! Purloined! Ha ha ha...loins."
-- Phil Sebben, Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law
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Quote:
Originally posted by RhymePhile:
Suze, the only thing you left out was the systematic rape and torture of our environment. Which will continue unabated for the next 4 years.
Thank you for adding that, Rhyme.
Actually, I didn't put that in because
I was afraid that people who read my posts
both here and the OB were becoming
uncomfortable with my very pointed and
personal campaign to raise awareness of the
Bush's-backers-dump-toxins-and-cause-
cancer-rates-to-go-up issue.
In fact, this is a good time to appeal to
my Republican friends: Please ask your
leadership to reexamine the environmental
"policies" currently in place. The
poisoning of our own children should concern
everyone, from megacorporation CEOs to the
farmers in middle of the seemingly-pristine
heartland of this country. It's time to
recognize that relaxing pollution standards as a "favor" to Big Money has lasting, horrible,
irreversible effects. Contamination of soil,
water and air should NOT NOT NOT be a
partisan issue. We're ALL downstream/ downwind.
Please erase the tree-hugging, spotted-owl lovin'
hippie image of an environmentalist that some
of you have, and replace it with someone like me: Someone who has seen more bald kids undergoing chemotherapy than I ever wanted to imagine existed. Remember that it's the human race
we're trying to save, not some obscure species of amphibian. It's too late to save amphibians,
so I'm for being selfish and saving OURSELVES.
(Oh everyone is SO glad you reminded me
to go to my RANT, Rhyme...can you feel the
gratitude sweetie???)
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