Real World Event Discussions

How truth is manufactured in the West

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, May 3, 2026 22:46
VIEWED: 13062
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SHINYGOODGUY

Tuesday, December 15, 2015 12:00 PM

I have to admit, there are some points you bring up that were part of Professor Aronson's teachings. How to dissect a news story and how to present one. Also the near extinction of the investigative reporter and solid news story. It is a thing of the distant past. Last I remember of an investigative report came around at the
time of Bush lite's "victory" in 2000.

Greg Palast, The Guardian, reported on the cheating uproar during the 2000 election. Voter fraud and voter "spoilage" (as he termed it) and vote counting contributed greatly to that presidential race, that he claims Al Gore won. Spoiled votes goes something like this:

While investigating the 2000 ballot count in Florida for BBC Television, I saw firsthand how the spoilage game was played -- with black voters the predetermined losers. Florida's Gadsden County has the highest percentage of black voters in the state -- and the highest spoilage rate. One in 8 votes cast there in 2000 was never counted. Many voters wrote in "Al Gore." Optical reading machines rejected these because "Al" is a "stray mark."

By contrast, in neighboring Tallahassee, the capital, vote spoilage was nearly zip; every vote counted. The difference? In Tallahassee's white- majority county, voters placed their ballots directly into optical scanners. If they added a stray mark, they received another ballot with instructions to correct it.

Palast had uncovered many such discrepancies that would make the hanging chad look like a children's fairy tale. But suffice it to say that he is a dying breed of news reporter. When I worked briefly at CNN (just as it went to 24-hour news service) I would collect the teletype news feed and bring it to the managing editor
and, depending upon the headline, to Mary Alice Williams (who was 1000 times better than Katy Couric, even on her worst day). And it turned out to be either Reuter's or Associated Press. So yes, this is a feed that is disseminated throughout the country, as just about every news outlet gets the same feed.

You mention TPTB and you are correct again. There are forces at work to homogenize the news so as to take control, thereby controlling the consumers in mass quantities. Many stories go un-reported, such as the commandos that raided an ISIS stronghold, along with Pesh Merga fighters, and rescued over 60 Kurd prisoners.
I heard it on MSNBC the same night that:

"Buried deep among the Bullshit Follies (Benghazi Trial) was a story regarding a Delta Force commando squad assisting the Peshmerga in Northern Iraq, freeing 70 Kurd hostages and capturing 5 ISIS soldiers slated for execution."

But the MSM did not report on it until 2 or 3 days later.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
SGG

I've been witness to facts never showing up in US news, and facts which were 'disappeared' out of the news.

When I lived much closer to Canada I would get my international news from CBC radio in addition to US sources, so I had a good opportunity to 'compare and contrast'. At the time the US was not reporting anything about Angola, though it was reported daily by CBC, which characterized it as a 'war', and included news about US involvement. It turns out the CBC was accurate, and US news - not at all.

Historians and former diplomats who have studied the documents say they show conclusively that the United States intervened in Angola weeks before the arrival of any Cubans, not afterward as Washington claimed. Moreover, though a connection between Washington and South Africa, which was then ruled by a white government under the apartheid policy, was strongly denied at the time, the documents appear to demonstrate their broad collaboration.

''When the United States decided to launch the covert intervention, in June and July, not only were there no Cubans in Angola, but the U.S. government and the C.I.A. were not even thinking about any Cuban presence in Angola,''

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KPO

Tuesday, December 15, 2015 11:26 PM

Quote:
There's KPO and his obsession again.

Why don't you check on your own anti-USA psychosis before you accuse anyone else of obsession. Which one of us posts photos of badly mutilated bodies of children to (unsuccessfully) make her point?

Quote:
It's like, when you get your ass handed to you in one thread

Lol, which thread was that? The thread where you suggested that Hitler's annexation of the Sudetenland might have been democratic just like Crimea, or the thread where kiki got caught out lying and went into meltdown?

Quote:
It should certainly be a BIG RED FLAG to anyone reading this - or similar - articles. Bald-faced lies tend to work rather well because then there is no detail to pick apart.

Nonsense. Intelligence agencies from different countries make claims all the time, and people can then doubt them/take them at their word as they like. It is the media's job to report these quotes and correctly attribute them. Sometimes the agencies release evidence to back up their claims, satellite data etc, but not always. If you think spy agencies withholding the sources of their intelligence is damningly suspicious, it's because you don't understand how intelligence agencies work. Let's imagine you were in charge of media statements for one of these government agencies:

Signy: "Our source for this intel on ISIS was an undercover operative high up inside one of their Raqqa cells..."
--> spy is dead within a week. Nice work Signy!

Furthermore, we've seen lying governments like Russia make claims, and then bolster their claims with fabricated evidence - and then mugs like you swallow it whole, so... In short, believe or disbelieve any governments that you want, but don't believe them based on the 'evidence' they offer up in the form of shiny photo-shopped media presentations.

Quote:
KPO: But all of this is tangential, because your point in this thread is not that Western governments lie, but that Western media lies.
Signy: No. that's not my claim.

Yes it is, as everyone can see:

Quote:
Signy: KPO- on any day, son, I can read western media and find another whopper. And I just found one. Look, here it is, in Reuters:

So I ask again, where is the lie in that Reuters article?

It's not personal. It's just war.

THGRRI

Wednesday, December 16, 2015 2:48 AM

Someone posting what they found on google about finding fair and honest news sources, means nothing if it is not what they practice. It is just another deflection from the truth of what they do. I am astounded just how easy it is to deflect some here.

1KIKI

Wednesday, December 16, 2015 6:32 AM

"It is the media's job to report these quotes and correctly attribute them."

You mean they work for the government by distributing its propaganda? And the more accurate they are in relaying the government line, the better the job they're doing?? Why didn't you just say so?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

1KIKI

Wednesday, December 16, 2015 7:00 AM

SGG..I truly appreciated your reply, your perspective and your own personal experience! THANKS !!!

JAYNEZTOWN

Wednesday, December 16, 2015 8:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

Greg Palast, The Guardian, reported on the cheating uproar during the 2000 election. Voter fraud and voter "spoilage" (as he termed it) and vote counting contributed greatly to that presidential race

KPO

Wednesday, December 16, 2015 6:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"It is the media's job to report these quotes and correctly attribute them."

You mean they work for the government by distributing its propaganda? And the more accurate they are in relaying the government line, the better the job they're doing?? Why didn't you just say so?

It's not that hard kiki. It is the media's job to report the news. When a government makes a significant claim then that is news, and the media should report both the claim, and who said it. There is no propaganda in correctly reporting that important person X said Y.

Contrast this to Russian media, which broadcasts the Kremlin's invented conspiracy theories about the CIA being behind ISIS, the 'coup' to replace Yanukovich, and pretty much every evil in the world, as if they were established facts, and not very weakly substantiated claims.

It's not personal. It's just war.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, December 16, 2015 8:09 PM

Quote:
It's not that hard kiki. It is the media's job to report the news. When a government makes a significant claim then that is news , and the media should report both the claim, and who said it. There is no propaganda in correctly reporting that important person X said Y.

Yanno, I can get you to believe ANYTHING, and I don't have to fabricate anything. All I need to do is SELECT what you hear. Most propaganda is accomplished by selection, not by lies. So if on of the things I choose to report is a GOVERNMENT LIE, and I choose not to question it or to provide additional information, am I not participating in propaganda?

Quote:
Contrast this to Russian media, which broadcasts the Kremlin's invented conspiracy theories about the CIA being behind ISIS

Of course it is. The CIA has helped establish rat-lines (supply lines) to ISIL, al Qaida, and other terrorist affiliates into Libya and Syria through Turkey, just as they supplied al Qaida in Afghanistan earlier. Try doing a websearch on the topic, you will probably find Seymour Hirsch as a reference in addition to others. In another thread (which I will have to find again) someone said it was the Pentagon's (military) failure which led to the creation of ISIL, but personally I think the CIA and its "interventionist" arm is working sometimes at cross-purposes with the military and even with their own intelligence-gathering operation. I wonder if at this point we have a rogue portion of the CIA, stuffed full of neocons who are busy working on starting WWIII.

Quote:
the 'coup' to replace Yanukovich, and pretty much every evil in the world, as if they were established facts , and not very weakly substantiated claims/

Yanukovich fled because of violence. YOU call it a "revolution", I call it a "coup", Show me how it was NOT a coup, or revolution, or whatever it is you choose to call it, because as far as I can tell the only difference between a "revolution" and a "coup" is whether or not you approve of the resulting government. EXAMPLES: The "French Revolution" meets the definition of a coup, does it not? So does the "Russian Revolution" and the "American Revolution".

-----------

So there you are, being dragged backwards, kicking and screaming, into the cold light of day. Instead of looking backwards, how about looking forwards .... there is a NEW and dangerous "reality" being manufactured in the western press right now, in regards to the Middle East. I'm not sure whether it will "take", but its certainly being floated. Can you tell what it is?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

THGRRI

Wednesday, December 16, 2015 10:33 PM

Quote:
SIG

Yanno, I can get you to believe ANYTHING, and I don't have to fabricate anything. All I need to do is SELECT what you hear. Most propaganda is accomplished by selection, not by lies.

I would say the fact that everyone but 1kiki constantly disagrees with you, shows you do not possess the intellect to change anyone’s mind about anything. Your point however does highlight your approach to posting. As I have said from day one. SUBJECTIVE....It was dumb of you to confirm that. Which proves my point about your intellect.

Quote:
SIG

So if on of the things I choose to report is a GOVERNMENT LIE, and I choose not to question it or to provide additional information, am I not participating in propaganda?

Yes, that is what we all recognize you doing as you promot Putin’s agenda.

KPO

Thursday, December 17, 2015 3:49 AM

Quote:
So if one of the things I choose to report is a GOVERNMENT LIE, and I choose not to question it or to provide additional information, am I not participating in propaganda?

You're talking complete nonsense. When there are competing claims you report both of them. But if there is no immediate contradictory claim then there is no 'selection' is there? Here's an article about Putin's claims that Turkey is an accomplice to ISIS - http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-putin-id
USKBN0TD1J420151124#AU067mw77C4qQB3t.97

It doesn't "provide any additional information", it just repeats the claims. So is Reuters "participating in propaganda" for the Russian government?

Quote:
Of course it is. The CIA has helped establish rat-lines (supply lines) to ISIL

Yawn.

Quote:
Yanukovich fled because of violence.

As always, you are just repeating the narrative of the Russian government. You cannot forcibly remove a national government by throwing rocks/Molotov cocktails at riot police, or by occupying a few government buildings. Yanukovich fled because his own party disowned and abandoned him, leaving him vulnerable to impeachment. Even Russian news reported it:

Quote:
The Party of Regions parliamentary faction said on Sunday it laid responsibility for the situation in Ukraine and the resulting fatalities on Viktor Yanukovych and his team.

"Now Ukraine is living through one of the most difficult and tragic periods in its history," the faction said in a statement. "The country finds itself deceived and robbed, but even this is nothing in comparison with the grief that dozens of Ukrainian families, who have lost their relatives, are feeling. Ukraine has been betrayed. Viktor Yanukovych and his team are responsible for this."

"We, the Party of Regions of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine and our party members, strongly condemn the criminal orders that led to human losses, to the depletion of the state treasury and the drastic debt increase that shamed the government in the eyes of Ukrainians and the rest of the world. As a result, our country found itself on the edge of a precipice, faced the threat of break-up and loss of national sovereignty. The president failed to heed our advise when it was given to him," the Party of Regions says.

...

"We condemn the cowardly flight of Viktor Yanukovych. We condemn the betrayal on his part. We condemn the criminal orders, which exposed common people, soldiers and officers to certain risks"

http://sputniknews.com/voiceofrussia/news/2014_02_23/Party-of-Regions-
faction-blames-Yanukovych-for-fatalities-in-Ukraine-events-5981/

Quote:
EXAMPLES: The "French Revolution" meets the definition of a coup, does it not? So does the "Russian Revolution" and the "American Revolution".

Then give me examples of historians calling the French Revolution 'a coup'. Or the American Revolution? If not then don't complain when I call your use of the word 'coup' brainless.

EDIT: Oh, and you still haven't said what was the 'whopper' in that Reuters article?

It's not personal. It's just war.