How truth is manufactured in the West
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, May 3, 2026 22:46
VIEWED: 13062
PAGE 8 of 11
its a mess
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Then give me examples of historians calling the French Revolution 'a coup'. Or the American Revolution?
I wonder if you dig into those museums in British cities and archives in London, read how the nobles and Kings of British establishment wrote about the Americas and the 13 Colonies, dumping tea, wanting their own laws and own freedoms, doing rebelions and start wars how rude, how un-British? Loyalists loved Stamp acts and Sugar Acts and the King of England don't like no Rebels, protagonists (smugglers) as violating the 'rights' of colonists, tax evaders, trouble makers who started war against the King and Queen? Of course there was rivalry and competition from the colonial powers, the Empires of Europe the Spanish, French, English all did not see the world the same. French would be tempted by an opportunity to put French Navy ships to sea and to settle some old scores with the British...remember America was still kind of ungoverned, rebel cowboy free land, unconquered, it was still in a period of colonisation and French ships off New York suddenly knew how Island territory near Jamicia was worth more than the whole of America combined. Islands which might be today know as British Virgin Islands, Honduras, Jamaica and the Bahamas West Indies were worth a lot more to the British than the whole American mainland...later a British Empire would be damaged and British with virtually no serviceable ships left in American waters.... of course it would inspire the French to have their own internal struggle, in the USA a Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution of the United States it possibly later provides inspiration for the French revolutionaries of 1789, offering a new language of fredoom, brotherhood, free speech, liberty
...imagine for a second your a Spanish nobel man living in this time or imagine you are a British subject working on British ship....I never did write it from a complete Euro perspective
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I would like to add that, like in life, there are no absolutes despite commentary to the contrary. Again, as I stated above, China, Russia, Cuba and, I would imagine, others maintain control of the news within their respective countries. No one is immune to this control. They are known as TPTB.
The epitome of that philosophy would be the Nazis. I would go further that control dates back even further than that. In my travels and personal studies I have come across scholarly books regarding the early control of the monks and clergy that produced the early Bible.
Read: Misquoting Jesus, by Bart D. Ehrman
SGG
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Quote:
You cannot forcibly remove a national government by throwing rocks/Molotov cocktails at riot police, or by occupying a few government buildings.
Or by shooting down 100 people in the street
Quote:Of course you can, that's the definition of a coup (d'etat).
Yanukovich fled because his own party disowned and abandoned him, leaving him vulnerable to impeachment. Even Russian news reported it
coup d'état
(Merriam)
Quote:
a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics;
especially: the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group
(wiki)
Quote:
the sudden and illegal seizure of a state,usually [but not always- SIGNY] instigated by a small group of the existing government establishment to depose the established regime and replace it with a new ruling body. A coup d'état is considered successful when the usurpers establish their dominance. If a coup fails, a civil war may ensue.
(Auburn.edu/~johnspm/gloss)
Quote:
A quick and decisive extra-legal seizure of governmental power by a relatively small but highly organized group of political or military leaders, typically by means of the unexpected arrest or assassination of the incumbent chief executive and his principal supporters within the government. For the coup to be successful, the rank and file of the police and military have to be willing to take orders from the new government leaders once the coup is accomplished, so typically the organizers of successful coups have previously recruited important military and police commanders to their cause prior to going ahead with it. Most frequently, coups are initiated and led by high-ranking military officers. They are most apt to be successful in countries where both the general population's and the government bureaucracy's ideological dedication to upholding established constitutional procedures is relatively weak and consequently there is little danger of massive civilian resistance or non-cooperation by the rank and file of soldiers and other government employees.
The more I look into this, the more and more what happened in Ukraine meets the definition of a COUP. You would be hard-pressed to find any definition with supports any other interpretation, although I know you'll either argue your point ad infinitum or you'll completely ignore every possible dictionary definition that can be found.
Quote:
Then give me examples of historians calling the French Revolution 'a coup'. Or the American Revolution? If not then don't complain when I call your use of the word 'coup' brainless.
OTOH, the French Revolution was NOT initiated from within the government [aristocracy] but externally. Nor was it tightly organized. The French aristocracy and the French nation faced a number of challenges (bad harvests, foreign war deficits, examples of revolutions overseas) which made the Revolution more broadly-based. The American Revolution initially started with a small group, not terribly popular, of men who stood to gain financially by removing British control, but eventually grew to encompass most of the population. Ditto the Russian Revolution. One critical difference between "coup" and "revolution", I think during a revolution the NATURE of the government itself is changed. So for the French, Russian, and American Revolutions, in which the nature of the government itself was changed from monarchy to something else, YES - the term "revolution" more properly applies.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
Yanno, I can get you to believe ANYTHING, and I don't have to fabricate anything. All I need to do is SELECT what you hear. Most propaganda is accomplished by selection, not by lies.- SIGNY
I would say the fact that everyone but 1kiki constantly disagrees with you, shows you do not possess the intellect to change anyone’s mind about anything. Your point however does highlight your approach to posting. As I have said from day one. SUBJECTIVE....It was dumb of you to confirm that. Which proves my point about your intellect. - THUGR
I would say that a billion flies eat shit, and that you're one of those flies.
I just provided three lies that were widely disseminated in western media, disproved later, and still believed to this day by a large portion of the western media-consumers (INCLUDING YOU) and instead of recognizing that there IS such as thing as "western propaganda", and that it works all you can manage to do is stick your head up your ass. The person who is the most thoroughly propagandized is the person who believes that he isn't. That's you.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
Of course you can, that's the definition of a coup (d'etat).
Throwing Molotov cocktails at riot police is the definition of a coup? Let me get this straight, you think Yanukovich still had control of the police, the army, and a majority in parliament but the violence on the street left him no choice but to flee?
Quote:
The more I look into this, the more and more what happened in Ukraine meets the definition of a COUP
Ha, of course you do. Then you should have no problem giving evidence for this happening in Kiev on Feb 21st 2014:
"a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics; especially: the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group"
"the sudden and illegal seizure of a state,usually [but not always- SIGNY] instigated by a small group"
"A quick and decisive extra-legal seizure of governmental power by a relatively small but highly organized group of political or military leaders, typically by means of the unexpected arrest or assassination of the incumbent chief executive and his principal supporters within the government."
Quote:
the French nation faced a number of challenges (bad harvests, foreign war deficits, examples of revolutions overseas) which made the Revolution more broadly-based. The American Revolution initially started with a small group, not terribly popular, of men who stood to gain financially by removing British control, but eventually grew to encompass most of the population. Ditto the Russian Revolution.
Well at least you have begun to think about this. The 2014 Ukrainian revolution had a great deal of popular support of course, with hundreds of thousands turning out on the street. By March 2014 it had the backing of the majority of the country. So by your own definitions of 'coup', each of which refers to 'a small group' - the word does not apply to EuroMaidan.
It's not personal. It's just war.
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wow, he's on fire! Say what you like about Trump, he might be loud, impolite, non-PC
but he's one hell of a scrapper
Trump shatters the media matrix and really lays a smackdown on this guy?
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" The 2014 Ukrainian revolution had a great deal of popular support of course."
Less than half, and those people were opposed to Yanukovych and his policies - a fact that could easily have been resolved in the next election - yanno - DEMOCRATICALLY. The fact that they didn't wait and unleashed violence directed at Yanukovych personally (by sending armed men to his official residence), makes me think they felt the election wasn't going to go their way.
But all speculation aside -
How do you PERSONALLY justify a violent coup when a democratic process was in place and early elections were already scheduled?
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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This is Western media control? This guy is the epitome of Bully Behavior and we're all supposed to bow down and call him a genius, all because he can yell louder than a news anchor?
Well, whoop-de-fucking-do! This guy lies through his teeth and insults half the world and does the Ugly American bit, and we call him a genius!? A scrapper!? His behavior and demeanor are being applauded despite the fact that he hasn't a clue as to what a president means to this country and the world. If this what passes as presidential, then come get me and strapped me into the next rocket to the furthest reaches of the galaxy.
This guy does not represent me or mine! I could just picture it, Trump walks up to the podium at the UN and says "Who the fuck does this guy thinks he is? I'm Donald J. Trump motherfucker, I poled in Iowa at 39%,
how about you?"
"How's my wall doing in Mexico? Deport all non-whites back to wherever, starting with Obama, his wife and kids. It's gonna cost How much? Fuck it, we'll raise taxes. Why!? Because I'm the fucking president and I wrote the Art of the Deal."
"Whaddaya mean what does that have to do with anything!? I'm the fucking
president, you have to do what I say..........get that guy outta here.
Melania, bend over! I'm going to do to you what I'm doing to the country, only with you I'll use lube. Go get the presidential knee pads."
One thing's for sure, with Trump president I'll believe it when someone says the world is coming to an end.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
wow, he's on fire! Say what you like about Trump, he might be loud, impolite, non-PC
but he's one hell of a scrapper
Trump shatters the media matrix and really lays a smackdown on this guy?
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Quote:
" The 2014 Ukrainian revolution had a great deal of popular support of course."
Less than half
Less than half to start with, but it grew in popularity as the tyranny and corruption of the government became clear. A classic example of an effective grassroots protest movement.
Quote:
a fact that could easily have been resolved in the next election - yanno - DEMOCRATICALLY.
I point this out to you every time and you conveniently forget it - Yanukovich RIGGED the last election, according to the OSCE. What expectation did the protesters have that any election he promised to hold would be fair? No, the only way DEMOCRATIC elections were going to be held was if Yanukovich was removed. And lo, that was exactly what happened.
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The fact that they didn't wait and unleashed violence directed at Yanukovych personally (by sending armed men to his official residence)
Aha! Finally something that sounds like a coup! Give us your evidence kiki!
*waits with excitement*
It's not personal. It's just war.
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Quote:How did he rig the last election?
I point this out to you every time and you conveniently forget it - Yanukovich RIGGED the last election, according to the OSCE.
Quote:Were the elections to be held under international observation?
What expectation did the protesters have that any election he promised to hold would be fair?
Quote:Because to hell with elections, when violence and intimidation is so much more certain to get you the results you want! And the NEXT elections - which bypassed a significant number of Ukrainians .... were so much fairer!
No, the only way DEMOCRATIC elections were going to be held was if Yanukovich was removed. And lo, that was exactly what happened.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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