Saudi Arabia: Foreign policy speculation
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, November 1, 2024 15:53
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I know I had another thread about this elsewhere, but I'll be damned if I can find it now.
I that thread, I was speculating on Obama's deep foreign policy. I know that I've banged my head repeatedly over his apparent neocon actions.
And yet... sometimes I think that Hillary, in her position as Scy State, actually initiated many of these moments (Victoria "Fuck the EU" Nuland worked for Hillary, as did Christopher Stevens, who was our "highly experienced" ie CIA-connected Ambassador in Libya while CIA-orchestrated gun-running was going on thru Benghazi). It seems to me that Obama was surprised by some of these events.
Still, the USA policy seems overall neocon-interventionist, with one great exception: The deal with Iran. THAT was something that Obama truly pushed for, and got. And from a foreign policy standpoint, that was the bung in the bunghole: Once that was achieved, all kinds of other consequences came gushing out, including Iran's and Russia's alliance and their mutual assistance to Syria. Now, I can't believe that all of that was totally unpredicted. And as a foreign policy action, it sticks out to me like a raisin in a bowl of oatmeal.
What I see is that Russia, Syria, and Iran isolating Turkey in the Mideast, and Russia isolating Turkey internationally. Turkey is THE strategic nation through which all jihadist-assistance flows. Saudi Arabia would be impotent in the region without Turkey's assistance. Russia doesn't need to go head-to-head against NATO (unless NATO really pushes for a confrontation), all they need to do is cut the supply-lines from Turkey. Even BEFORE Putin started pointing out the Erdogan family's ISIL connections, I noticed that both Germany and the USA defanged Turkey by quietly removing their missiles. (The USA refused to extend the Patriot-missile contract in October.)
I was talking to my crazy-smart hubby and his well-connected, crazy-smart friends, and they were speculating about how, in similar fashion, Russia and Iran may be isolating Saudi Arabia. Again, Russia doesn't need to go against "the USA" in the Mideast when the neocon's next-weakest partner in the region is Saudi Arabia. As I understand it (from the western press' silence) the Saudi project in Yemen isn't going so well... Iran has committed quite a few troops to the project and (according to Iran) the Houthis are actually invading Saudi Arabia.
In addition, with the price of oil engineered to be so low, Saudi Arabia is suffering from its own price-policies, and its coffers are dropping drastically from lack of income as well as fighting a war on two fronts (Yemen and Syria). And finally, Saudi Arabia is suffering from a critical lack of water. They have pumped their aquifers dry, and are now entirely dependent on wheat imports to sustain their unsustainably enlarged population.
WHAT IF THE SAUDI WAHHABI GOVERNMENT WERE TO BE ELIMINATED AS A POLITICAL FORCE? It seems to be that the current Saudi monarchy is the poison tooth in the entire Asian/Mideastern jaw, fostering terrorism and instability from Tunisia to Nigeria to Xinjiang (China) to Malyasia, and requiring that the USA support a nation that is not only inimical to our long-term interests but also in deep contradiction to our advertised ethics of freedom and democracy?
WHAT IF OBAMA'S POLICY IS TO SUPPORT RUSSIA JUST ENOUGH SO THEY CAN DO OUR DIRTY WORK FOR US? What if he is hoping to do what the USA has done for a long time: play Russia against the mideast, only THIS time with the plan that Russia will emerge weakened but victorious?
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If only people were that smart.
Maybe the Iran deal went through with fingers crossed - in the hopes that something in that direction may have been fostered at some future time. I don't see it falling like dominoes. It's more a small shift of the balance of power.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Well, maybe the Iran deal was an accident. But I posted some time ago that I felt that consequential shifts were taking place - for which I have little evidence. That old alliances were being broken, very, very quietly. It was a gut feeling and its still just a gut feeling.
Here is my argument for why Obama does NOT have a deep agenda:
One of the telltale signs would be to look for groups of advisors with whom Obama could share ideas. A government won't get far without them. Putin, I know, has a select council of military, financial, economic, foreign policy and internal political advisors. Apparently they have very far-ranging discussions, they discuss different options, but (like the military) once a decision is made they all agree to abide by it. Decisions can always be revisited at some later date if something changes or if the results aren't what was expected.
The Chinese system is a lot more inscrutable but from what I hear Xi Jingping has something of a tougher row to hoe. The Chinese leadership has been committed to state-run capitalism since Mao died, when there was a complete turnover of leadership, starting with Deng Xiaoping ("To get rich is glorious") and continuing thru Jiang Zemin and Hu Jintao. http://www.chinasage.info/leaders.htm As I understand it, since the former triumverate had a collective 34 years in power (1978-2012) it was able to appoint an entire system of sympathetic party officials. While Xi Jingping and his group of advisors and supporters have a new strategy, many previously-appointed bureaucrats and functionaries are dragging their feet and Jiang Zemin is still apparently agitating for power. Still, Xi Jingping has created a number of posts (most significantly one for internal security), has made a number of important appointments, and has a coterie of supporters and advisors who've been in government for a long time.
Now consider Obama: He was an outsider, and I believe TPTB sought to manipulate him by helpfully providing him with deep-state, fully-entrenched advisors in the Pentagon, State, CIA, and Congress, Hillary among them. By now, it should be fairly easy to trace out the neocon influence ... there is a direct line, for example, from Hillary to Nuland to Kagan (Nuland's deeply and openly neocon husband). I'm sure, if I were Obama, I would have those politics mapped out exquisitely. HOWEVER, what is NOT so easy is to find the NON-NEOCN advisors with whom Obama could strategize. Who are they? Do they even exist? Does he have contacts into foreign nations which get around the neocon pathways? I can't imagine whose Obama's non-neocon advisors would be, but he would really need some if he is carving out a quiet revolution.
--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
If only people were that smart.
Maybe the Iran deal went through with fingers crossed - in the hopes that something in that direction may have been fostered at some future time. I don't see it falling like dominoes. It's more a small shift of the balance of power.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
The simple solution would be to attack the religion rather than drop bombs on these islamic peoples, make a mockery of Islam and support muslims who make a joke of the faith.....at its core it has very shakey foundations, which is why they see Rushdie as a bigger threat than a US Cruise Missile
The Saudis are often at the top of fundamentalism, the whole region and culture built on lies and fakery, a magician kisses a fundamentalist frog and all of a sudden you have a magic kingdom but with a secret horror and jihad underneath? Saudi Arabia has been warned over Islamist funding by German Vice-Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel. The are afraid of examination of the Koran or Quran and recently arrested an Indian for 'Liking' Facebook Photo Showing Mecca Shrine as Hindu Lingam Shiv Temple, there was also the writings made famous by Rushdie's fictional book, showing pagan Satanic offense that reveal a fact that their god Allah it might built on a Pre-Muslim Arabian “Moon God”. The madness spreads to other nations with Sudan arresting 55 Christians to appease Islam, International Christian Concern’s Africa analyst William Stark said Bashir’s connections to Saudi Arabia and Iran only strengthen his hold on power.
http://news.yahoo.com/german-vice-chancellor-warns-saudi-arabia-over-i
slamist-135521960.html
http://www.islam-watch.org/home/143-roddy/840-allah-was-originally-a-p
re-muslim-arabian-moon-god.html
http://www.faithfreedom.org/there-is-a-frog-inside-every-muslim-prince
-charming/
http://www.ibtimes.co.in/saudi-arabia-indian-arrested-liking-photo-tha
t-showed-mecca-mosque-hindu-temple-625278
http://www.wnd.com/2013/02/christians-arrested-to-appease-islam/
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/saudi-arabia-warned-over-islamist-funding-
by-german-vicechancellor-sigmar-gabriel-20151206-k
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... at its core EVERY religion has very shakey foundations ...
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Have you ever tried working for the State Department? The world would be in much better shape with you there.
SGG
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Do you know the AHA! feeling when you think you discovered something? Well, I think I figured out what all of the apparent waffling is about. YAY!
The person who gave me my idea was none other than Obama himself. During his speech on terrorism, amidst all the blah-blah-blah he said one thing that struck me as being both true(ish) and important:
Quote:
We should not be drawn once more into a long and costly ground war in Iraq or Syria. That’s what groups like ISIL want.
That explains Obama's stance, because there is America: Standing like a picador behind its "allies", prodding them into burden-sharing the so-called "war on ISIL" (more about that later) but refusing to put boots on the ground itself. It's a perfectly understandable explanation for Obama's basic approach, but doesn't explain WHAT he doing, just how.
I don't expect that anyone will credit this explanation, but I'm going to take a whack at it because I think it ties a lot of pieces together.
First of all, it's clear to me that the USA has no intention of defeating ISIL. They have failed to attack so many targets .... like 1500+ oil truck convoys and lines of jeeps, bunkers and command centers ... and attacked so many NON-ISIL targets like MSF hospitals and Syrian Army units ... that its clear to me that the USA and its "partners' activity in Iraq and eastern Syria are mere optics, if not outright air cover for ISIL. The desultory pecking away at scattered individuals and small targets clearly shows that the USA and "partners" are committed to doing nothing effective.
Indeed, Obama himself said he was committed to "containing" ISIL, not defeating it. That's because he is still hoping that ISIL will bring down Assad, when al Nusra (al Qaida in Iraq) failed.
So, setting aside "defeating terrorism" as any sort of goal, what IS our military (and partners' militaries) doing in Iraq and eastern Syria?
As it turns out, its trying to engage Russia in a war of attrition ... to get Russia ensnared in a budget-busting, soul-destroying war like Vietnam or Afghanistan.
The USA has tried this several times already. The first was in Syria, when Obama drew a red line about chemical weapons, and Turkey and its jihadist allies set off a Sarin gas attack and quickly blamed Assad. The USA was all ready to bomb Syria, until Russia set its destroyers (with some very effective anti-ship and anti-misille missiles) athwart the Syrian coast, and shot a couple of USA cruise missiles out of the sky. The USA aircraft carriers withdrew from the eastern end of the Mediterranean, and the military had to go back and recalculate the cost of getting Russia involved in Syria. Russia derailed that particular provocation by providing Sarin residues to MI6 labs which determined that the Sarin was not manufactured by Assad's military, and Russia also convinced Assad to get rid of his chemical weapons. During this time, the USA is operating a rat-line of weapons from Libya to Syria.
The next attempt was in Ukraine. If you recall, I posted more than once I thought that the Ukraine event was triggered by Syria. I originally thought that's because the Russian ships steaming in to Syria from Sevastopol put Crimea on the front burner, but perhaps Ukraine was just an already-primed alternate. Russia COULD have been ensnared in Ukraine. Instead, what Russia did was take Crimea, because of its military significance (the Russian military port of Sevastopol) but refused to openly help Novorossians. Instead, it continued to push for a unified Ukraine (less Crimea) ... no matter how egregiously Kiev bombed civilians and broke the ceasefires ... although it took a LOT of internal flak, since many ethnic Russians live in the Donbas and there are many family ties to the people there. There is still a wrestling match going on between who is going to be responsible for Kiev's debts, including debts owed to Russia for natgas. The IMF has clearly come in on the side of
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Irony alert: Saudis announce formation of 'anti-terrorism' coalition
A nation ruled by an extremist Islamic sect known as the Wahhabis announced that it has formed a grand coalition of mostly Muslim countries to fight terrorism. Saudi Arabia and 33 other nations will coordinate their efforts to end terrorism – they say.
Presumably, the government of Saudi Arabia and the coalition won't fight any of the Islamist militias the Saudis are currently supporting in Syria. And Pakistan, a member of the coalition, will somehow forget that it is supporting the Taliban in Afghanistan.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/12/irony_alert_saudis_announc
e_formation_of_antiterrorism_coalition.html
Unlimited Muslim immigration: A Congress of fools or traitors?
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/detail/unlimited-mus
lim-immigration-a-congress-of-fools-or-traitors?f=must_reads
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&
;pid=7444133
Atheist author Richard Dawkins has claimed that people on the political left are ignoring Islam's "misogyny and homophobia," and defended GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump's free speech rights.
Counterterrorism operations targeting harmless groups to maintain political correctness?
http://hotair.com/archives/2015/12/15/counterterrorism-operations-targ
eting-harmless-groups-to-maintain-political-correctness/
the Regressive Left - excerpt from Sam Harris' podcast
sad times when you need to go super offensive Atheists and to Alex Jones tinfoil heads for information
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
... at its core EVERY religion has very shakey foundations ...
Most religions across the CIVILISED world are kind of open-minded, somehow on some level tolerant, maybe even benign....In South Korea you can say how Buddhism sucks, In Canada and Australia you can say how Roman Catholic books are BS, if you want in Australia and Canada and other western nations you can say how Protestant, Calvinist, Quaker, Pentecostalists, Swedenborgianists, Snake Handlers, Scientologist and Mormons are all idiots, you can make offensive 'art' like piss christ, you can tear apart religion in Preacher and Daredevil comicbooks and open up the religion debate in comedy like life of brian, movies like The Book of Mormon
Dogma etc.
Moreover, the reason Monty Python and The Book of Mormon and Piss Christ don’t “incite violence” is due to the fact that no one in the Mormon and Christian religion behead blasphemers, that is an Islam problem, not a free speech problem, not an all have shakey foundation problem, not a Pamella Geller Problem its an Islam problem.
Their values are sometimes different to ours as across much of the civilized world people can have open and free discourse, they can debate and discuss but you can not do this against Islam, there is punishment for being critical of the Koran, once born into Islam you can not leave it, you can not drop the Quran and become atheist, protestant, shinto...whatever, the punishemnt for leaving the Muslim faith across the Islamic world is often imprisonment, stoning, beheadings and death....they also issue 'Fatwa' that is some islamoheadedterroristic Islamic scholar throws a hissy fit when someone offends their books, or writes something bad of Nation of Islam or draws a South Park Cartoon and all of a sudden on of their priests makes law that any one of their religious thugs can collect a lot of money by killing a critic of islam, he won't even go to jail for this murder, instead he will be rewarded with money for defending what this culture produced as this backward barabaric islamic faith.
Rushdie says it better
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"Most religions across the CIVILISED world are kind of open-minded ..."
You think Buddhists are religiously tolerant pacifists? "Buddhist Mob Beats 10 Muslims To Death In Myanmar; Communal Violence Spreads". Another year, another example out of many. "'No water for him. Let him die': Horrifying moment Burmese Buddhists set fire to Muslim man in riots which left 43 dead"
And Christian religions in the civilized world were (and are) used to justify barbarities like slavery and lynchings. And if you go to the right places in the US and look white enough you'll hear that talk to this day. And the Bible - as I've repeatedly pointed out, and which you've repeatedly failed to address - IN ITS TEACHINGS says that people need to be stoned, or have their heads or hands cut off for various infractions, among other barbaric punishments.
To keep on with the Christian theme, why don't you look up The Army of God, a group of religious extremists who shoot and bomb and assassinate people in the name of god?
Do you think ALL 2.4 billion Christians should be condemned because of the actions of a minority? After all, that minority calls themselves Christian and THEY CAN POINT TO THE BIBLE for their justification. So there must be something wrong with the religion itself, don't you think? EVEN WORSE the entire Christendom has failed to rise up and condemn these murderers, and terrorists and their supporters. So we must ALL agree with what they're doing. Don't you agree?
Rather than continue to spew your incessant hatred, how about you respond to my post?
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Read your Quran and Islamo books again, Al-Taqiyya and Kitman
Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'"
Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers."
its all being shown as ex-muslims start to speak out
and the islamo radicals get shown up as fools
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Buddhist Mob Beats 10 Muslims To Death In Myanmar; Communal Violence Spreads".
Pally-Wood
A number of different terms to consider pallywood, the term sunni islamo propaganda, the term Hezbollywood, or presstv propaganda all going by different names but with very similar goals
get a plane ticket to Burma
and see for yourself
before parroting Western Qatar/Dubai owned mainstream media
you know how the Saudi owns a good chunk of CNN, it owns even the guys at Fox.... Alwaleed al-bin-lad Talal or some prince asshole
no doubt a few monks may have killed some islamists, but what you are getting in your news feed is 'Pally-Wood'
https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2015/06/07/muslim-rohingya-propag
anda-the-fake-pictures-of-the-rohingya-crisis/comment-page-1/
http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/showthread.php?197253-The-fake-picture
s-of-the-Rohingya-crisis
https://twitter.com/bbctrending/status/607767011754532865
http://themuslimissue.tumblr.com/post/120967373921/muslim-rohingya-pro
paganda-the-fake-pictures-of
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=397069947143907&
id=127735030744068
http://pamelageller.com/2015/06/fake-rohingya-persecution-pictures-pro
liferate-on-web.html/
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/38x1eb/the_fake_pictures_of_the
_rohingya_crisis/
and I'm no fan of the Israel government either, they are assholes and have killed innocents
but why do people suddenly feel the urge to believe one side or the other, why do they need to support one team or the 2nd team? Is it red vs blue programming? and could it be possible on both sides of the conflict there are liars, murderers, thieves and killers? Why believe one side over another?
'pallywood' and the lies and deception from both sides incase you missed the story
http://www.honestreporting.ca/cbcs-oscar-worthy-pallywood-performance/
6744
http://truthreturns.com/pallywood-101/
http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2014/12/hamas_en_eu_lalala.html
http://theinglouriousbasterds.com/incroyable-les-palestiniens-detourne
nt-un-film-dhorreur-americain-pour-pallywood/
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/07/sinister-deception-television-media-
pallywood/
Myanmar Buddhist mob stories turned out to be fake, Bruma monks attacks muslim was a false story, it was one fake story after another and another false story and another fake story
BBC had to keep retracting the false stories
and btw we class Burma as a commie dictatorship....you seeing the pattern yet?
let me speed things up if you still can't connect the dots
who do you think posted this one?
Quote:
The USA has been tacitly or actively supporting jihadism for decades. It can be traced back as far as Jimmy Carter, who supplied various Afghani-based terror groups - including the Saudi Osama bin Laden- with shoulder-fired Stinger missiles to drive out the Russians.
I used to think that the USA support for terrorists was sporadic and opportunistic ... Afghanistan, Chechnya, Libya .... but over the last couple of years, as I've educated myself, I see now that our support has been there all along ... that we have "given up" large swaths of the Middle East (Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and the planned addition of Syria) to Saudi-Wahhabi terrorism, that these were not repeated military/ foreign policy "failures" or "mistakes" on our part, but part of our payment to Saudi ArabiaNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME