Father Of "Drowned Syrian Boy" Was People Smuggler
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, July 1, 2016 23:53
VIEWED: 12299
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To a certain extent, the old adage “out of sight, out of mind” is unavoidable for anyone, but we don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that Western society and especially the American public, exhibit a generalized ignorance to events taking place beyond their borders that’s completely out of synch with the degree to which most Westerners have easy access to information. That is, if the US public cared to know what was going on outside of suburbia and beyond the Starbucks drive-throughs and the strip mall Targets they most certainly could find out, but that would likely mean discovering all manner of really inconvenient and often disturbing things and so, at the end of the day, willful ignorance allows everyone to perpetuate the myth that everything is fine.
For its part, the media is more than happy to expose harsh realities as long as they’re conducive to ratings so, for instance, “unarmed black teen shot 18 times by angry white police officer” works well, while “Syria’s bloody civil war continues unabated” does not because to the largely ignorant public, Syria might as well be Mars and if for some inexplicable reason, life or death ended up coming down to being able to correctly identify Syria on an unlabeled map, well, it would be time to start praying.
Sometimes, however, the media stumbles across or, more likely, is fed an image or a series of images that are so indelible that they’re forced to run them, and the public consciousness is, if but for a fleeting moment, jarred out of its perpetual stupor.
That’s what happened in 2013 when YouTube videos appeared to show the victims of a so-called “gas attack” that Bashar al-Assad decided, apparently out of the clear blue sky, to launch on his own people even though were the story true, it would seem to have been a rather peculiar strategy given that the strongman was fully aware that the US was just waiting on an excuse to launch a few cruise missiles. Then, a little more than two years later, we got another example of imagery powerful enough to focus the public’s attention on a far-away civil war when the body of a drowned toddler washed up on a beach in Turkey.
And even though connecting the proverbial dots isn’t something everyday Westerners are particularly adept at, it wasn’t too difficult for the media to paint the picture:
1) drowned toddler was a refugee,
2) there’s a refugee crisis thanks largely to a war going on in a place called Syria which isn’t on Mars but is in fact in the Middle East,
3) this place called Syria is where ISIS is,
4) the Russians are there too.
It would be difficult to come up with a narrative more conducive to rallying public support for an invasion if you were trying. And indeed, maybe someone was trying, because as Reuters reports, the drowned child’s father might not have been a fleeing migrant after all, but rather a people smuggler and Aylan might have been on the boat not because his family intended to save their child from the horrific violence escalating daily in Syria, but rather because profiting off of other people’s misery was his father’s chosen profession and he often brought his family along for the ride. Reuters has the story, excerpts from which are presented below.
Via Reuters:
The father of drowned Syrian toddler Aylan Kurdi was working with smugglers and driving the flimsy boat that capsized trying to reach Greece, other passengers on board said, in an account that disputes the version he gave last week.
Ahmed Hadi Jawwad and his wife, Iraqis who lost their 11-year-old daughter and 9-year-old son in the crossing, told Reuters that Abdullah Kurdi panicked and accelerated when a wave hit the boat, raising questions about his claim that somebody else was driving the boat.
A third passenger confirmed their version of events, which Reuters could not independently verify.
"The story that (Aylan's father) told is untrue. I don't know what made him lie, maybe fear," Jawwad said in Baghdad at his in-laws' house on Friday. "He was the driverNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
More children continue to drown trying to make treacherous sea voyage to Europe - 44 last month.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34479482
It's not personal. It's just war.
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Before there were children drowning in the sea, there were dead children in Afghanistan
In Iraq
(Soon to be dead)
http://thewe.cc/thewei/&_/images8/iraq/dead_child_us_invasion_2003
.jpe
(beheaded by ISIS)
.... Libya
.... Palestine
Syria ....
gas attack by jihadists
Ukraine ....
Who ignited and fed this clusterfuck, anyway?
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Thanks for the gratuitous dead-child images Siggy.
Quote:
Who ignited and fed this clusterfuck, anyway?
Well that's a good thing to ask. Afghanistan's decades long descent into violence and barbarity began with the USSR's bloody invasion of that country.
Iraq's violence was triggered by an idiotic and calamitous war led by George W Bush.
Syria's violence was triggered by a barbaric regime (backed by Russia) with its crackdown on peaceful, popular, pro-democratic protests.
In Iraq and Syria's cases, inbuilt sectarian tensions were established by the clumsily drawn borders of imperial countries Britain and France - creating countries that herded people from different tribes, ethnicities and religions together.
Different wars in different parts of the world, with different backgrounds and causes. Of course in your mind all of this war and dvastation were caused single-handedly by one entity - the USA aka Mordor aka The Great Satan. It must be comforting to have such a simplistic understanding of such a complex world.
It's not personal. It's just war.
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Quote:You're welcome. Unlike the picture of the drowned Syrian toddler, which was gratuitously repeated ad infinitum, they tend not to show up in western media. I'm glad that you appreciate an unbiased view of the victims.
Thanks for the dead-child images Siggy.
Quote:
Who ignited and fed this clusterfuck, anyway?-SIGNY
Well that's a good thing to ask. Afghanistan's decades long descent into violence and barbarity began with the USSR's bloody invasion of that country.
Yes, those horrible Soviets, building roads and schools and airports, forcing equality on women - graduating women doctors and lawyers and allowing them to think they might actually make something of themselves!
Good thing that USSA supplied shoulder-fired missiles to the religious fanatics and oppressors of women, including Osama bin Laden! Thank goodness we saved Afghanistan from the Soviets and steered them back into their 12th century civilization! And THEN ... post 9-11 ... we bombed them even further back in time! Good for them! Hooray for us!
Quote:Twice. Don't forget Bush the Elder, who used Iraq against Iran. Gave Saddam there wherewithal to make chemical weapons, and supplied him with "ground truth" to let him know how effective those weapons were!
Iraq's violence was triggered by an idiotic and calamitous war led by George W Bush.
Quote:And propelled by .... the Turks, Saudis and Qataris funneling - literally- hundreds of millions of dollars, tons of weapons, and tens of thousands of jihadists and mercenaries into Syria.
Syria's violence was triggered by a barbaric regime (backed by Russia) with its crackdown on peaceful, popular, pro-democratic protests.
And let's not forget Libya. (Which you seem to have.)
Quote:It must be comforting to have such a complex view of such a simple problem ... a view which absolves the USA and its regional allies (Saudi Arabia, Israel, Turkey, and the GCC) of any responsibility.
Of course in your mind all of this war and dvastation were caused single-handedly by one entity - the USA aka Mordor aka The Great Satan. It must be comforting to have such a simplistic understanding of such a complex world.
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Pundits and politicians are already looking for a convenient explanation for the twin Middle East disasters of the rise of Islamic State and the humanitarian catastrophe in Syria.
The genuine answer is politically unpalatable, because the primary cause of both calamities is U.S. war and covert operations in the Middle East, followed by the abdication of U.S. power and responsibility for Syria policy to Saudi Arabia and other Sunni allies.
The emergence of a new state always involves a complex of factors. But over the past three decades, U.S. covert operations and war have entered repeatedly and powerfully into the chain of causality leading to Islamic State’s present position.
The causal chain begins with the role of the U.S. in creating a mujahedeen force to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s. Osama bin Laden was a key facilitator in training that force in Afghanistan. Without that reckless U.S. policy, the blowback of the later creation of al-Qaida would very likely not have occurred.
But it was the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq that made al-Qaida a significant political-military force for the first time. The war drew Islamists to Iraq from all over the Middle East, and their war of terrorism against Iraqi Shiites was a precursor to the sectarian wars to follow.
The actual creation of Islamic State is also directly linked to the Iraq War. The former U.S. commander at Camp Bucca in Iraq has acknowledged that the detention of 24,000 prisoners, including hard-core al-Qaida cadres, Baathist officers and innocent civilians, created a “pressure cooker for extremism.”
It was during their confinement in that camp during the U.S. troop surge in Iraq 2007 and 2008 that nine senior al-Qaida military cadres planned the details of how they would create Islamic State.
The Obama administration completed the causal chain by giving the green light to a major war in Syria waged by well-armed and well-trained foreign jihadists.
Although the Assad regime undoubtedly responded to the firebombing of the Baath Party headquarters in Daraa in mid-March 2011 with excessive force, an armed struggle against the regime began almost immediately.
In late March or early April, a well-planned ambush of Syrian troops killed at least two dozen soldiers near the same city. Other killings of troops took place in April in other cities, including Daraa, where 19 soldiers were gunned down.
During the second half of 2011 and through 2012, thousands of foreign jihadists streamed into Syria. As early as November 2011, al-Qaida was playing a central role in the war, carrying out spectacular suicide bombings in Damascus and Aleppo.
Obama should have reacted to the first indications of that development and insisted that Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar keep external arms and military personnel and funding out of Syria in order to allow a process of peaceful change to take place. Instead, however, the administration became an integral part of a proxy war for regime change.
Seymour Hersh reported last year that an unpublished addendum to the Senate Intelligence Committee report on Benghazi revealed a covert CIA operation to arm Syrian rebels, in cooperation with Sunni allies’ intelligence services.
In early 2012, Hersh reported, following an agreement with Turkey, then-CIA Director David Petraeus approved an elaborate covert operation in which Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar would fund the shipment of weapons to Syrian rebels from stocks captured from the Gadhafi government.
The scheme employed front companies set up in Libya to manage the shipments of arms in order to separate the U.S. government from the operation. An October 2012 Defense Intelligence Agency report released by the Department of Defense to Judicial Watch confirmed the shipments of Libyan weapons from the port of Benghazi to two Syrian ports near Turkey beginning in October 2011 and continuing through August 2012.
The part that's not mentioned is that France, the USA, and other willing western participants went well be
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I suppose one outcome to hope for is that the current Turkish President, Tayyip Erdogan, will crash and burn in upcoming elections. Erdogan was viewed as a moderate modern Muslim, his focus being on modernizing the economy with large infrastructural projects such as the Deriner Dam 
and Marmaray Tunnel (a 10-km underwater link across the Bosphorus Straight, kind of like the Chunnel but shorter) 
However, in recent years Erdogan has been allying with the jihadists, with dreams, apparently, of getting rid of Assad and perhaps taking advantage of a Qatar/Syria gas pipeline, and rebuilding the Ottoman Empire.
Everyone wants to have a caliphate, it seems!
Sigh.
Just this past July, Erdogan broke a peace deal with the Turkish Kurds (who make up a significant minority in Turkey and elsewhere). Since then, his party is suffering in the polls, failing to win a majority of seats in Parliament and unable to form a coalition. From the outside, it looks like Erdogan's gamble failed to pay off, since he pissed off the Russians (who might cancel the Turkish Stream pipeline), still has to deal with Assad (so far), and now has wahhabi extremists setting off suicide bombs against peacefully-demonstrating Kurds and liberals. Fingers crossed that Erdogan - who is as crooked as a dog's kind leg- get crushed in the elections.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Pundits and politicians are already looking for a convenient explanation for the twin Middle East disasters of the rise of Islamic State and the humanitarian catastrophe in Syria.
The genuine answer is politically unpalatable, because the primary cause of both calamities is U.S. war and covert operations in the Middle East, followed by the abdication of U.S. power and responsibility for Syria policy to Saudi Arabia and other Sunni allies.
The emergence of a new state always involves a complex of factors. But over the past three decades, U.S. covert operations and war have entered repeatedly and powerfully into the chain of causality leading to Islamic State’s present position.
The causal chain begins with the role of the U.S. in creating a mujahedeen force to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s. Osama bin Laden was a key facilitator in training that force in Afghanistan. Without that reckless U.S. policy, the blowback of the later creation of al-Qaida would very likely not have occurred.
But it was the U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq that made al-Qaida a significant political-military force for the first time. The war drew Islamists to Iraq from all over the Middle East, and their war of terrorism against Iraqi Shiites was a precursor to the sectarian wars to follow.
The actual creation of Islamic State is also directly linked to the Iraq War. The former U.S. commander at Camp Bucca in Iraq has acknowledged that the detention of 24,000 prisoners, including hard-core al-Qaida cadres, Baathist officers and innocent civilians, created a “pressure cooker for extremism.”
It was during their confinement in that camp during the U.S. troop surge in Iraq 2007 and 2008 that nine senior al-Qaida military cadres planned the details of how they would create Islamic State.
The Obama administration completed the causal chain by giving the green light to a major war in Syria waged by well-armed and well-trained foreign jihadists.
Although the Assad regime undoubtedly responded to the firebombing of the Baath Party headquarters in Daraa in mid-March 2011 with excessive force, an armed struggle against the regime began almost immediately.
In late March or early April, a well-planned ambush of Syrian troops killed at least two dozen soldiers near the same city. Other killings of troops took place in April in other cities, including Daraa, where 19 soldiers were gunned down.
During the second half of 2011 and through 2012, thousands of foreign jihadists streamed into Syria. As early as November 2011, al-Qaida was playing a central role in the war, carrying out spectacular suicide bombings in Damascus and Aleppo.
Obama should have reacted to the first indications of that development and insisted that Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar keep external arms and military personnel and funding out of Syria in order to allow a process of peaceful change to take place. Instead, however, the administration became an integral part of a proxy war for regime change.
Seymour Hersh reported last year that an unpublished addendum to the Senate Intelligence Committee report on Benghazi revealed a covert CIA operation to arm Syrian rebels, in cooperation with Sunni allies’ intelligence services.
In early 2012, Hersh reported, following an agreement with Turkey, then-CIA Director David Petraeus approved an elaborate covert operation in which Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar would fund the shipment of weapons to Syrian rebels from stocks captured from the Gadhafi government.
The scheme employed front companies set up in Libya to manage the shipments of arms in order to separate the U.S. government from the operation. An October 2012 Defense Intelligence Agency report released by the Department of Defense to Judicial Watch confirmed the shipments of Libyan weapons from the port of Benghazi to two Syrian ports near Turkey beginning in October 2011 and continuing through August 2012.
The part that's not mentioned is that France, the USA, and other wNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I notice you can't address my post about the continuing role of the USA in killing children and promoting jihadism in the ME. So instead of discussing the facts, you discuss the sources. Heck, if you're so focused on "sources", why not bring out the Bible?
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Quote:
So instead of discussing the facts, you discuss the sources.
Questioning dodgy sources is an excellent way to establish the facts.
And a conversation based on facts is impossible with you Signy, because you unapologetically drink in lies from various propaganda sites.
It's not personal. It's just war.
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Quote:And how do you KNOW they're "dodgy" sources UNLESS you parse their content?
Questioning dodgy sources is an excellent way to establish the facts.
The problem is that you start out AHEAD OF TIME accepting some sources and rejecting others, not by careful consideration of WHAT THEY SAY but by some other criteria that seems to be a combination of familiarity and habit.
If that's not your criteria, how do you decide whether a source is "dodgy"?
I expect this will be another unanswered question,
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The problem is that you start out AHEAD OF TIME accepting some sources and rejecting others
On the contrary Sig, I check the content of the sites you post and see what kind of people you are getting your information from. Your neo-Nazis were easily identifiable by their pro-Hitler videos, and your conspiracy whackjobs were easily identifiable by their 9/11 'truth' articles. And RT is, well, RT.
It's not personal. It's just war.
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I'm sorry, but who the fuck care "what kind of people" "they" are?
I learned a lot about MKULTRA and depleted uranium (had to look up sabotted rounds) from Pirate News.
SO, you go to a website and you see that they post something that strikes you as being "pro-Hitler", and because they post some items that you don't agree with, you reject everything else they write. Because, well, there's those examples of falsehoods or mistakes or what-have-you; clearly "those people" have an agenda which makes everything they say suspect.
On the other hand, if I could show you that BBC or bellingcat also posted lies, gross errors, or intentional distortions, would you stop going to "those kinds of people" for your information? Are your standards for journalistic integrity objective, and is your response applied evenly, across-the-board?
Because, yanno, the sheer fact that the western press (AND YOU) zoom in on SOME dead children but not others already tells me that you and your sources are both distorted.
All I can think is that you're simply prejudiced. (Prejudice, from PRE= before the fact, JUDICE = to judge, judgment before the facts) You trust white, middle class, liberal, preferably British sources despite the fact that they are also post errors, lies, and distortions. What amount of lies, errors and distortions would force you to give them up, to treat them as you treat other websites that you "don't like"?
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SO, you go to a website and you see that they post something that strikes you as being "pro-Hitler", and because they post some items that you don't agree with, you reject everything else they write.
Err, yes...? What do you do when you see something pro-Hitler on a website? Well I guess we know that, you post something from that website on these boards. But what goes through your mind when you see that source praising the Nazis? It doesn't bother you?
It's not personal. It's just war.
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So, you go to a website and you find some articles that contain errors of fact, or which consistently portray an event from a POV, or publish outright lies ... and then you judge (some) authors ... or perhaps the entire website ... to be so contaminated by ideology as to be avoided at all costs. (I guess because it would smirch your intellectual purity?)
Well, I can point to the NYT (which repeatedly and to this day publishes demonstrable lies) and the BBC (which, if nothing else, is biased towards NATO) and bellingcat (which has made such serious errors in regards to both the Syrian gas attack and image analysis of Ukraine as to negate their own conclusions) ... what am I supposed to do, using YOUR yardstick?
Stop reading them? According to you, I should. That's what YOU would do, if you were at all even-handed about your treatment of information sources.
What you fail recognize, apparently, is that ALL information is ideological. ALL media, ALL websites, ALL publications (even scientific ones) start out with assumptions and a specific position from which they view the world. ALL information is limited/ selected, if only by lack of knowledge. Whether it is a specific eyewitness POV (Twitter) or compilation of eyewitnesses (bellingcat) or formal publication (BBC, NYT) or even historical investigation ....
Every single piece of information has already been preselected by the presenter.
(And BTW- eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable, as are human memories.)
You say that you "know" this, and yet you continue to treat some sources as "suspect" and other sources as sacrosanct (and rely on, and quote liberally and unreservedly, as if they were truth) when in reality you should treat all information with suspicion.
I read a book, a long time ago, called "Man Against Myth" ("It is an instructive, amusing and courageous book whose success is most desirable in public interest."-Albert Einstein) and the point the author makes ... and the point that I have been trying to make over and over .... and apparently failing spectacularly ... is that everyone views the world thru tinted lenses. EVERYONE. The very beginning of the book makes a passionate case for seeing those tints which color our views, and that the hardest myths to uncover are those which are the most comprehensive... because, being universal, they're the hardest to identify.
It's easy for us to see the myths behind Russian publications (Well, maybe not so much for you, since you refuse to read them!) but ... what are the assumptions and myths behind the BBC? What are the myths behind bellingcat? The NYT? Please don't tell me there are none, because there are, and I've pointed out some in this thread already.
I'll go further with bellingcat, because I've pointed out this before in the Syrian gas attack: Images are only PART of the story. They need to be, among other things, reliably authenticated and analyzed, because contending sides are all adept at contaminating the twittersphere, to the point of staging events. There is forensic on-the ground physical evidence ... chemical weapons have trace impurities and stabilizers which reliably rule out manufacturers. There are the physical shells. There is electronic intel. Doctor's exams. Eyewitness testimony to sights, sounds, smells. May I repeat that I pointed this out AT THE TIME?
Bellingcat's assumption - it's foundation myth, if you will- is that it presumes that image analysis ALONE is sufficient to uncover the truth. (Is the founder an avid video-gamer? That's what I'd suspect.) That is EXACTLY where they have failed, to the point that even professional image analysts have stepped forward to discredit bellingcat's methodology. But even with better methodology, bellingcat is ignoring other vital - and perhaps more probative- information. So, bellingcat is limited in what it can provide.
One thing I know for sure- you will NEVER get closer to the truth by holding u
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Before there were children drowning in the sea, there were dead children in Afghanistan
In Iraq
(Soon to be dead)
http://thewe.cc/thewei/&_/images8/iraq/dead_child_us_invasion_2003
.jpe
(beheaded by ISIS)
.... Libya
.... Palestine
Syria ....
gas attack by jihadists
Ukraine ....
Who ignited and fed this clusterfuck, anyway?
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Child death porn from Siggy, again. Yeah, you're one twisted piece of go se. You think posting that here makes any difference?
It won't, as along as you stuff "anything" into that empty maw where your empathy should be. Tell me, does posting dogs chasing their tails, or sputtering about privacy rights, or name-calling successfully distract you from the fact that you have completely lost your moral compass?
Why are you not OUTRAGED at the fact that these children were killed in pointless wars waged by YOUR GOVERNMENT? What is wrong with you?
Are you so focused on "winning" an argument that you can't even acknowledge the world "out there", where real people (including real children) are being killed?
Is your ego so fucking fragile that it consumes your entire world view, from horizon to horizon?
How did your priorities get so distorted?
My posts apparently aren't going to give you a sense of empathy, but you should AT LEAST develop an intellectual backbone. Something to keep you pointing in the right direction when your emotions clearly lead you astray.
Quote:
Will it save any children in Syria or Afghanistan? Anywhere? You really think it's proper to use those images (without consent) to further you rants to a board of 20 people? What a selfish sick f....
I'm the sick fuck? I've been pointing out to you for quite a while now that you're not as "nice" as you think you are. What's more twisted? Directing attention to the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN KILLED BY THE USA? Or diverting attention from the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN KILLED BY THE USA with videos of a dog chasing its tail?
Why are you NOT outraged??? Not AT ME for pointing out this inconvenient fact, but at the situation? Or, if outrage at pointless child-killing isn't your cup of tea, how about at least managing some sort of morally comprehensible response?
I suggest that you take a moral health holiday. You've become unhinged by the back-and-forth here, and have lost a sense of perspective. Take the time to do some deep introspection as to how you got to this heartless, psychopathic place. If common human decency doesn't do it for you, maybe some intellectual rigor will point you in the right direction.
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"Posting the images of dead children without consent ..."
That ship already sailed. No matter how hard you try and pretend otherwise, those images were ALREADY in the public domain.
And there you are - aghast! that someone should use publicly available images - but are silent about those children's deaths. Silent about their pain, their deaths, the injustice, the complete pointlessness of the atrocity. By your indifference, you prove you don't care about any of that. It's an ignorable thing as you try to score points on the internet.
Talk about perverse.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:
Posting the images of dead children without consent like it was your right to publicly defile them again - that is what being a sick fuck is, that is being in a sociopathic place. How would you feel if someone posted images of you dead daughter just to make some worthless point on a scifi forum to 20 people who have no influence on the situation? You went way too far. You owe those families a huge apology, which of course wouldn't be worth anything. Talk about an UGLY American. If you have an ounce of class or any sense of perspective and responsibility you'll remove those images.
Uh huh.
Your sense of "class" was offended by the pictures, but not by the killings.
The person who owes "these families" an apology (assuming that the families themselves are still alive) is YOU: attempting to bury and ignore the tragedy that occurred.
But keep posting, you sick fuck. Keep digging that hole. Here, have a shovel, you psychopathic moron.
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Hmmm. Which is worse. Classless or psychopathic? Gosh.
Which would YOU rather be called?
Meanwhile, back to those poor Syrians, dead because of the US's 'Great Game' ... anything to say about that? Maybe just a minimal pro-forma 'tsk tsk. what a shame ...'?
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:Yanno, I could post HUNDREDS of these pictures, and it would still only be 1/1000 of the reality.
But keep posting, you sick fuck. Keep digging that hole. Here, have a shovel, you psychopathic moron.
You post this gore and call me psychotic? Do you even know how these kids died? Do you really know who killed them or how they were killed? You were there when it happened?
I would appreciate answer to any of those questions - if you don't I'll assume you have no clue and you're the lying sack of shit most of us know you to be.
A few more - since you're so much better than the rest of us: So what's your plan? How are you saving these kids? Posting here? Making a bomb in your basement? For whom? I'm waiting to be impressed by your great big beautiful plan to save the world! Help us Signym! Only you can save us!
So, GSTRING (and KPO, and THUGR) which side were you on when so many children were killed?
Who were you supporting when the USA invaded Afghanistan?
Which side were you on when the USA invaded Iraq?
Which side were you on when the west decided to bomb Libya?
Which side are you on when it comes to the shelling going on in Ukraine?
Who are you supporting in Syria?
Were/ are you on the side which is killing most of the children?
GSTRING, you keep whining that "we" don't really know your morals. Well, now's your chance to make your ethics known. Stop hiding behind a veil of obscurity!
Stand up and day it loud and proud: Which side were YOU on?
Come on ...
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Do you even know how these kids died?
Very OBVIOUSLY they died peacefully! Conflicts had nothing to do with it.
Talk about a stupid question.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:Uh huh.
If you had been paying attention to anyone but yourself and not stooped to your worn out negative presumptions, you would have seen that I'm always been on the side of peace and negotiations first
Like where?
And if that's so (and I have not seen ANY evidence of that anywhere here) ... why do you always seem to end up on the side that does the most killing, if you're always starting out on the side of peace?
Quote:
You post this gore and call me psychotic?
Was the person who made Hearts and Minds a psycho?
How about the maker of this little documentary?
Don't you realize that one reason why people can be convinced to wage war is because they're shielded from the realities of war?
Quote:It's pretty self-evident from the pictures. That WAS a stupid question!
Do you even know how these kids died?
Quote:
Do you really know who killed them or how they were killed?
In most cases the websites were clear about who killed these children. HOW they were killed... well, I think we addressed that in that previous question. But ... really???
What do you THINK happens when a missile hits a wedding, or when a city is subjected to a "shake and bake" operation"? Children are killed by concussion, shrapnel, fire, etc ... does it really matter how these particular children were killed? They're pretty emblematic of how children are killed in war. It's something to be avoided, wouldn't you say?
Quote:What another stupid question! What does it matter if I was there or not?
Were you there when it happened?
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Quote:
Talk about a stupid question.- KIKI
You wear dumb like your favorite old sweater.-STRING
KIKI said it was a stupid question, and instead of either expanding on the question or modifying it, you resort to kindergarten-ish name-calling.
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GSTRING, even your idiot buddies aren't here backing you up on this one. Everybody can see that your questions are misdirected, pointless and irrelevant.
Quote:All I have to do ... all YOU have to do ... is look at the pictures.
Do you even know how these kids died?--GSTRING
It's pretty self-evident from the pictures. That WAS a stupid question!
So then it should be easy for you - how?
But, here you go
Before there were children drowning in the sea, there were dead children in Afghanistan
The child closest to the camera was killed by an explosion, and given the fact that half of his hair is blown off, and that there is an entrance wound in his forehead but that the left parietal/occipital part of his skull is blown apart and that it appears that one eyeball was blown out, it looks as if he was very close. The second boy probably died of shrapnel.
The website tells me that this is Afghanistan.
Now, Afghanistan has a long and tragic history with the USA. Did you know that Brzezinski starting arming the Taliban AND al Qaida BEFORE the Soviets invaded? His idea was that the USA would destabilize Afghanistan simply to draw Russia into war. TO THIS DAY HE'S OK WITH HAVING CREATED JIHADISM.
IN HIS VIEW, NOTHING IS AS IMPORTANT AS EASTERN EUROPE (WELL, HE IS POLISH AFTER ALL!) AND DESTROYING RUSSIA.
Muslims ... Muslim terrorist, Muslim victims ... just so much irrelevance. But don't take it from me, you can read his statement here ...
Brzezinski: How Jimmy Carter and I Started the Mujahideen
http://www.greanvillepost.com/2015/10/16/how-jimmy-carter-and-i-starte
d-the-mujahideen/
The second website tells me that this was in Iraq.
Since the bodies are clearly in a morgue, this was probably in a larger city with hospitals and morgues and ambulances. The amount and scattering of blood suggests that these children were killed by shrapnel. ONE of the children has half of hid head blown off, so this was an explosion very close to the child.
Did you know that the Coalition of the Willing invasion of Iraq started with a campaign of "Shock and Awe" (mass bombing by the USA)? Now, when you attempt to "shock and awe" a population thru indiscriminate violence, what is that except terrorism? The worst campaigns centered on Fallujah, which was subjected to intense shelling with depleted uranium, and intense missile fire in which phosphorous was used to "illuminate" as scene, but which were referred to among the military as "shake and bake" operations ... fire on structures so heavily that you drive people out of shelter, then rain phosphorous on them.
http://warisacrime.org/iraq
Somewhere between 150,000 to 1,000,000 Iraqis were killed by the USA invasion, and since about half of the population or Iraq was under 15, that means 75,000 to 500,000 children were killed. So ultimately, these SPECIFIC children don't matter, they are reflective of the many children undoubtedly killed in this invasion.
I could keep going, but I'm busy. I think you can figure out the rest for yourself.
I suggest you watch this before you start accusing me of psychopathy. Because who is the bigger psychopath- the person who does everything they can to hide and deny the anguish that their government is imposing on the world, or the person who points it out?
It's called "Heart and Minds", and it's an award-winning documentary of Vietna
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"these children"
So, all you care about are these SPECIFIC children? These 34 children and ONLY these 34 children? Is that what you're basing your entire argument on? That only THESE CHILDREN matter? And if Signy doesn't answer specifically and exactly what happened to ALL THESE CHILDREN but JUST THESE CHILDREN it erases the tens of thousands of children who were killed??
Don't you care about the tens of thousands of children who died at the hand of US policy? Do you have nothing to say about them?
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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GSTRING, you think that I should be there personally to attest and record that these specific children were killed by a personally-recorded enemy, otherwise it's somehow deceitful?
So, that dog-chasing-tail video ... my god, you didn't record it yourself, did you? Shit-canned. Everything you've ever said about the middle -east: Shit-canned. Everything you've ever said, quoted, or reproduced about Kiev, the Donbas, or Russia: Shit canned!
Really, come to think of it, all of your posts, except those that you personally participated in: Deceitful. Exploitative.
So, I guess it's OK if I just mentally shit-can your posts ....
DONE!
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Quote:
So, that dog-chasing-tail video ... my god, you didn't record it yourself, did you? Shit-canned. Everything you've ever said about the middle -east: Shit-canned. Everything you've ever said, quoted, or reproduced about Kiev, the Donbas, or Russia: Shit canned! = SIGNY
So by your own reasoning we can shit can all of your posts - check.
You are hoist on your own petard, GTRING. I made no such claims and requirements. All I asked is that you (and your idiot friends here) to look at a wide variety of sources and to do an honest job of trying to figure out what's real, and responding logically and on-point to various interpretations.
But it seems to me that in this thread alone- as a prime example of what you (and your idiot friends) do when faced with factual material - you simply throw so much chaff into the wind. In this case, to distract from the significance of the historical fact that the USA killed 75,000 - 500,000 children in Iraq ALONE, and that was in the latest invasion. That doesn't include the children killed in the first invasion, or the children killed by our other invasions across the mideast, or children killed by our allies with our money and arms: the Taliban or Al Qaida/ al Nusra. What was your response?
Name-calling! "Deny, deflect, obfuscate". Requiring that the poster have been PERSONALLY THERE to witness every single event that that post about!
REALLY???
How did you get into such a distorted space?
And more importantly, by YOUR OWN response, you personally have no business posting here about ... well, anything, since you have not been there personally to witness and record it. You should have been more careful what you demanded, GSTRING, somebody might hold you up to it.
So I'm holding you up to your own demand: STOP POSTING UNLESS YOU PERSONALLY SAW THE EVENT.
BTW, as regards to your so-called position about the Mideast, when you said that victories of outsiders were ephemeral, I asked at least five or six times if you would clarify if that really applied to ANY nation, or just Russia.
You refused to answer.
So, how do we evaluate your claim that you "always" try for negotiation and peace first? All you've managed to do so far is dredge up one equivocal statement that you even refused to clarify at the time. So where is this "always" that you're talking about? Not only do you not meet your own characterization pf "always" ("I'm always been on the side of peace and negotiations first, never kill except in self-defense), I would say it's pretty close to "never" since actual evidence of your peaceable, humanitarian stance is few and very far between. It seems to me that you post in fear of your idiot buddies here, and that you lack conviction.
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flush ...
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Sources, funny when I just reposted a conversation you had SIG with Miker on this very subject. He showed what you had posted citing links you provided as the source of your post, to say nothing of what you suggest they do.
Here's a source;
Video shows Syrians near Aleppo hiding from airstrikes under mattresses
From under a mattress, a small child emerges on all fours, oblivious to the danger in the skies. Out from another mattress crawls a baby.
Rare amateur video obtained by CNN shows entire families in farm fields cowering under mattresses as they attempt to shield themselves from airstrikes -- as if bedding could protect them from aerial bombardment.
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns unless you're Russia
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/20/middleeast/syria-airstrikes-aleppo-civil
ians/index.html
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Eeeww... that last load didn't leave.
Flush, flush
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Quote:No, but YOU just did!
So, that dog-chasing-tail video ... my god, you didn't record it yourself, did you? Shit-canned. Everything you've ever said about the middle -east: Shit-canned. Everything you've ever said, quoted, or reproduced about Kiev, the Donbas, or Russia: Shit canned! = SIGNY
Wow - you just equated the importance of the source of a funny dog video with that of photos of mutilated dead children.
Quote:I'm not trying to use it to "score points", but if you think that's all I'm trying to do ... that those pictures are only useful for "scoring points" ... then the sick fuck is you.
You are one sick fuck, no sense of scale or context or subject. Using the deaths of strangers to score points on a nearly empty forum - shame is too weak a word.
Quote:WHY?
The source of such images are much more important
I'm serious. I have all kinds of interpretations as to why YOU would think it's important, but I would rather you explain you reasons to me so that I don't mis-interpret
Quote:Except that I'm trying to show you something that absolutely doesn't depend on "where" the photos came from, or "who" killed the children, and so your continued focus on those topics seems to trivialize their deaths to the one thing YOU seem to be focused on, which is ... "scoring points". But, again, why don't YOU tell me why sourcing is so important to you? Maybe we can have a more fruitful discussion along those lines.
and as such it's much more important to know where they come from other than "some website." You yourself have asked about photo sourcing in the past - so unless you're hypocrite
Quote:
In this case, to distract from the significance of the historical fact that the USA killed 75,000 - 500,000 children in Iraq ALONE, and that was in the latest invasion.... SIGNY
So, didn't read my post. The one right on this page. Why do you ask questions and then not read the answers? Does that seem smart to you?- GSTRING
What you said ... AFTER MUCH PRODDING ... was
Quote:
Our bombing was horrific, and probably ultimately unnecessary. Too many innocent civilians died and that's a huge regret and sadness for me even though I was personally against that tactic
You were PERSONALLY against that tactic? Any evidence of that here, other than this most recent post? Or was this the first time you openly objected to such tactics? Because, yanno, try as I might to remember you objecting to the killing of civilians, it somehow NEVER came up in your "Russia invades Ukraine" thread, and never came up in any thread previous to about three weeks ago. When you suddenly became sensitized to the topic.
Quote:Such as?? Since you're accusing me of lying, you better have evidence to that, or you yourself are the liar.
And more importantly, by YOUR OWN response, you personally have no business posting here about ... well, anything, since you have not been there personally to witness and record it. You should have been more careful what you demanded, GSTRING, somebody might hold you up to it. So I'm holding you up to your own demand: STOP POSTING UNLESS YOU PERSONALLY SAW THE EVENT. =SIGNY
Not going to happen until you stop lying and making shit up.- GSTRING
Quote:
BTW, as regards to your so-called position about the Mideast, when you said that victories of outsiders were ephemeral, I asked at least five or six times if you would clarify if that really applied to ANY nation, or just Russia. You refused to answer.
Quote:LINKS PLEASE
"Brilliant - yes, a complete mess [ME], playing with a deck of ten thousand cards and all made up - no one speaks the truth and no one trusts anyone. Anyone at any time could change their allegiance for little to no reason, or even the wrong reason. A perfectly unsolvable puzzle."
Quote:
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Quote:
How about you show me where I was pro-USA killing people? Since you think I'm such a hawk, should be easy, right?
It IS easy. Basically, you react to anyone else other than the USA or Britain doing violent things, but excuse the USA doing the same thing.
I can point to this thread here, where you throw much chaff in the air to reduce the significance of the USA killing somewhere in the realm of 100,000 children (if not more) in the past 10 years. For you (not me), it became not a matter of horror at needless and tragic death, but a matter of "taste" and "attestation" and "scoring points".
Here you are, defending KPO who refuses to acknowledge the significance of the bombing of Dresden
Quote:
I knew it! KPO is worse than Satan!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=59952&mid=1
001930#1001930
This is you, defending the corproate POV
Quote:
*snort* I'm sorry, who is it that comes to this board crying all the time?!? That most definitely would be you! The bulk of your posts are text blocks of whining and crying about something.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=59971&mid=1
001801#1001801
Dismissing the Iranian POV (and everyone else who bothers to pay attention)
Quote:
So yeah, a lot of nothing.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=59966&mid=1
001794#1001794
Claiming a POV that he can just never seem to link to
Quote:
Of course another fiction from Signym - I even posted vids of civilian deaths and lamented how there would be senseless deaths on both sides because it was obvious these people hated each other.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=59843&mid=9
99803#999803
Completely lying about my sources
Quote:
This coming from the person who says she has to depend on Putin Media for her news.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=59569&p=2
Jumping to conclusions about who killed Boris Nemstov (Russia, naturally]
Quote:
I don't think Putin put on his KGB mafia track suit and shot the guy himself - otherwise no.
After asking me what I thought people should DO in response to injutice, this is G's response
Quote:
Merely following/ retweeting/ clicking on a button isn't effective. People actually have to DO SOMETHING MEANINGFUL in real life... like go to a demonstration and risk getting shot at maybe, or go on strike, or at least stop buying a product.- SIGNY
The Signym lecture is here! How people should live their lives according to Signym! Do it my way - control control control. -GSRING
Yanno, I could go on and on ... but I've run out of time. Certainly not run out of material. If you insist, I'll go further, when I have more time. But to sum up ...
Here is GSTRING, objecting to Obama's support of jihadists ...
*crickets*
Here is GSTRING, worrying about the civilian death toll in eastern Ukraine
*crickets*
Here is GSTRING, objecting to the bombing of Libya
*crickets*
And raising questions about the coverage of Libya and Syria which would foment USA intervention
*crickets*
Or even mentioning the corruption in FIFA -which as been going on for decades- BEFORE Russians come into the conversation
*crickets*
For someone who claims to have such rigorous ethics, you sure apply them unevenly. According to your posts, the only evil worth reacting to is what's done by Russia or (other) anti-Americans. The USA and Britain and their corporations are, of course, incapable of deliberately killing large numbers of civilians, committing or fostering terrorism, or distorting history or the news. At least, that's what your posts indicate, because you sure defend American and Britain's violence.
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Quote:So, YOUR QUOTES .... which were copied and linked ... are the they "nonsense" that you're referring to, or the "lies"?
And then lots more nonsense after those first lies not worth the time.
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Quote:
SIG
I'd rather be a whore for peace than a whore for USA wars, which you appear to be. And if you object to this impression, why don't you come up with something that you posted AT THE TIME to show me otherwise?
You're not a whore for peace. You're a whore for Russia. Most of the links you create here serve the purpose of propagating this site with Russia's agenda. You aren't fooling anybody. That's why it's always you and 1kiki defending yourselves against the rest who do and have posted here. The fact that you never challenge what they do shows the rest of us that nothing you say about what's wrong with the world is actually real to you. It's all an attempt to clean up Russia's image.
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Murdered & mutilated toddlers through out the Muslim world ?
Saw that comin'.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:So, YOUR QUOTES .... which were copied and linked ... are the they "nonsense" that you're referring to, or the "lies"?
And then lots more nonsense after those first lies not worth the time.
I see by this attempt at deflection that you admit you were lying. That's a big step toward recovery.
I'll admit it, She's lying.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURAPTOR:
Murdered & mutilated toddlers through out the Muslim world ?
Saw that comin'.
Oh wait... this isn't a showcase of Planned Parenthood pics, is it ?
No, I didn't think so.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Here you are 'G', protesting Kiev shelling cities and civilians
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58499&p=14
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
And finally- Do you think that civilians should be shelled in order to support a national boundary? What are your ethics on the situation?
Originally posted by 'G':
I think they should be brined and roasted before they are shelled.
Shelling civilians in the wrong order - before brining, then roasting - offends your ethics.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Because I pointed out how 'deep' your concerns were for civilians who were being shelled by Kiev. They were so 'deep', when asked directly, you joked about it.
I think most people understand your post and what it means about you.
Here's 'G', protesting Kiev shelling cities and civilians
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58499&p=14
Originally posted by 'G':
I think they should be brined and roasted before they are shelled.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:Yes, you.
Do you really think someone thinks bombing civilians is ok?
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Yes, you.
Do you really think someone thinks bombing civilians is ok?
Hey! You out dumbed Kiki! I would not have believed it possible!
So you really haven't been reading my posts?
Me: "The realities of war: civilians suffer the most and deserve it the least. "
You see it again and again with these two. Disagree with them and they will decide that you are a neocon or 'Auraptor'. Disagree with them for long enough and they will say that you are a fascist, a Nazi, pro-ISIS, pro female genital mutilation - basically there's no limit to the kind of sick, evil individual they will fervently believe you to be.
It's completely childish and emotion-driven, and not worth anything more than an eye-roll.
It's not personal. It's just war.
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Here's 'G', protesting Kiev shelling cities and civilians, in his own words:
I think they should be brined and roasted before they are shelled.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58499&p=14
I invite everyone to examine the thread to find 'G' offering a genuine protest, no matter how faint or indirect, to the atrocities.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
You see it again and again with these two. Disagree with them and they will decide that you are a neocon or 'Auraptor'. Disagree with them for long enough and they will say that you are a fascist, a Nazi, pro-ISIS, pro female genital mutilation - basically there's no limit to the kind of sick, evil individual they will fervently believe you to be.
It's completely childish and emotion-driven, and not worth anything more than an eye-roll.
Yeah - they're so obvious and ultimately such a waste. Agenda before Truth. I've known a few people who have lived what I would call a dishonest life for so long, and are so invested in it, that their ego won't let them consider anything that is contrary. Part of it is this very thing: create exaggerated and fabricated responses and beliefs and pin them on anyone who might question them. Makes it easier for them to keep justifying their singular, bent outlook. Teabaggers come to mind. Sad.
This isn't about you saying what they claim you said, in the context they outlined G. We all know you never suggested it is alright to bomb civilians. This is about distorting the facts (as they always do) and putting you on the defensive to keep the focus off comrade half pint. Sorry, comrade quarter pint.
The real point here is why in the hell did Russians let themselves fall prey to another dictator. What is it that's in SIG and 1kiki's DNA that keeps them for realizing they are of the type that needs to be led around by the nose, and makes them believe, do and say anything they are told?
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Here's 'G', protesting Kiev shelling cities and civilians, in his own words:
I think they should be brined and roasted before they are shelled.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58499&p=14
'G' The realities of war: civilians suffer the most and deserve it the least. = kpo It's not personal. It's just war.
I invite everyone to examine the thread to find 'G' offering a genuine protest, no matter how faint or indirect, to the atrocities. Even some SMALL expression of regret will do. Something other than an impersonal statement, to indicate he prefers it be avoided, or that he feels dismay that it happens ...
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I invite everyone to examine the thread to find 'G' offering a genuine protest, no matter how faint or indirect, to the atrocities. Even some SMALL expression of regret will do. Something other than an impersonal statement, to indicate he prefers it be avoided, or that he feels dismay that it happens ...
So it's not what G posted but what he didn't post that proves he thinks it's ok to kill civilians. WOW, WOW, WOW, you are a sick woman.
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THUGGR
Humanitarian. (snicker)
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58208&p=5
Who gives a shit?
and the epitome of evidence and reason
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58499&p=29#
1003717
and here is your cite 
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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'G'
I find the links Signy provided extremely helpful. Don't you? For example, SignyM posted about your response to this (with link):
KPO is a sick person who justifies firebombing of Dresden with the idea that
1) It served an overall military objective, and therefore the firebombing of a civilian city center was collateral damage, and
2) It wasn't personal, it was "just" war.
I think KPO has pretty much eliminated himself as a moral person who has anything of importance to say on ANY ethical matters, especially on the matters of war, terrorism, and civilian deaths. Whatever he might say about Russian invasion of anywhere, we should all bear in mind that his ethics are extremely bendable, especially when it comes to justifying the actions of "his" side.
Also, KPO is a propagandist who want to control what people read and hear, because if they stray from KPO_approved "pure" sources they (in KPO's mind) are exposing themselves to unacceptable propaganda (as opposed to acceptable propaganda, I suppose).
Just my $0.02.
And your response was this:
I knew it! KPO is worse than Satan!
Your reply to this particular discussion? Has nothing to do with those quotes. You label her post a lie ... and then go on to discuss something entirely different ... AS IF it was part of the original conversation.
So, speaking of lies - you may need to get a fire extinguisher for your pants.
Basically 'G', you've already exposed what you are with months, and months, and months of posts. If you're trying to change anyone's opinion of you with misdirection, lying and obfuscation, it's not working. Not only are you failing miserably to prove your point, you're only highlighting even more - if that's at all possible - how dishonest you are.
You relentlessly criticize one side, but stay completely silent on any atrocity committed by the US or its flunkies. You've exposed your own claims to the moral high ground to be the frauds they are. And your inability to honestly discuss anything, at any level, has already revealed you to be a coward.
You are one pathetic twist.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:
You are one pathetic twist.
Kiki there's a couple of instances there of you and Sig saying absurd and hysterical things, and G mocking you for it. But you don't realise, and take his words completely seriously - it's embarrassing.
It's not personal. It's just war.
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Quote:So, KPO, how do we explain YOUR posts? Especially the ones you repeat over and over?
You are one pathetic twist.- KIKI
Kiki there's a couple of instances there of you and Sig saying absurd and hysterical things, and G mocking you for it. But you don't realise, and take his words completely seriously - it's embarrassing.- KPO
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I was referring to the "It's not personal, it's just war", as if that excuses all manner of barbarity on "your" side.
You've certainly repeated it often enough, it's even been discussed, and I certainly got your point (although it's not the point you think you're making)
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Dear friends... I think it's time...
It's been weighing on me...
Time to unburden myself...
Time to confess...
I am a 6th generation member. Great, great, great, great granddad "A" was the first. He made his name at the Battle of Pinjarrain in Pinjarra, Western Australia. One day, while on duty protecting dead livestock, the lanky Scotsman smelled a foul odor and went looking for it's source. A couple hundred yards from camp he came upon an Aboriginal spit roasting a marsupial that he thought was stolen from a collection meant to be sent back the Her Majesty's exotics larder (side note: some say roasting marsupial smells like burning hemp). Unfortunately, because "A" had left his post he was also blamed for the disappearance of a tennis racket expertly strung with dry wallaby gut. After serving his 30 day isolation sentence A was understandably bent on payback, so he tracked down the unfortunate indigenous he had originally encountered, and spit roasted him. Or someone who looked very much like him. Or he may have only spit on someone who looked like him.
In any case, our family's killing niche was claimed and we would forever forward be known as:
The ACMDNMWNMWBINTPWGYHTWAITPDNWGIYWABYS
(All Civilians Must Die No Matter Who No Matter Where Because It's Not The People With Guns You Have To Worry About It's The People Doing Nothing Who Get In Your Way And Block Your Shot).
So you're one of those A's. I thought there was something sinister and familiar about you. I guess it could be worst G, you could be one of those awful unscrupulous B's.
B's are from the far western end of the Russian Federation and survive by eating there own crap. There names are unusual and so they are easy to spot. The B's consists of two clans. THE EL SIG'S AND DO KIKI'S. If spotted please contact the board of health because these B's are especially filthy and disturbed.
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By the way, I've been castigated relentlessly for posting pictures of dead children, emblematic of the hundreds of thousands of children directly killed by USA troops or indirectly killed by USA policy of supporting terrorism.
Dead children that the western press and western governments prefer that you would forget, or not even imagine
And yet, KPO's BBC link posts a video which shows - in detail and close up- the body of a drowned toddler on a Greek beach. The video which immediately follows- an interview of Alan Kurdi's aunt- shows that she thinks of the viral relaying of her nephew's body not as "gratuitous" but as a "message from God".
When it suits you, you have no problems using images to win sympathy for "your cause". That's OK- images are powerful tools to help people see - literally- events. It's not the fact that I posted those images that tweaks you. It's that there is heavy criticism of USA policy attached to it. Personally, I think that the pictures of these dead children are ALSO messages from God (if you believe on God), or at least an appeal to the best part of your personality (assuming you have a best part).
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"images from GOD"
Nope. "MESSAGES from god"
All I did as read ONE phrase of yours - and it was wrong.
Get your shit together. Either learn to read or learn to stop so blatantly, obviously lying.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Before there were children drowning in the sea, there were dead children in Afghanistan
In Iraq
(Soon to be dead)
http://thewe.cc/thewei/&_/images8/iraq/dead_child_us_invasion_2003
.jpe
(beheaded by ISIS)
.... Libya
.... Palestine
Syria ....
gas attack by jihadists
Ukraine ....
Who ignited and fed this clusterfuck, anyway?
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
WHAT
THE
FUCK
My life is otherwise wortheless. How can I help stop this?
I don't mean giving money. I mean head-first nose-dive kamakazie action to keep this shit from ever being replicated again?
My niece is an angel, and She has a great Mom and Dad and I never have to worry about Her....
These kids never stood a chance.
Give me 5 minutes alone in a room with whoever the fuck did this to them and even if it's not me, only one of us are coming out of that room alive.
I know that if I were to die I left my Niece with a lot....
I think that could be a future government program though....
When a man has gotten to that age that he just doesn't care and can't get the cute young girl anymore because of his less than rich status, he can just push the button and sacrafice himself for the betterment of his bloodline.
The only reason I'm still here right now is because I believe I'm better off alive to her than dead in our collective recent future....
I'm here until I get a helpless gut-shot wound or die of untreatable cancer....
I'm Her Goddamned Secret Service patrol, over 30 years before She becomes our first Female President of these United States :) (Sorry Hillary..... Barack made sure we have at least 5 terms of nothing but old white men through 2030.....
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Yesterday's news makes it crystal clear, at least to me, that the drowning of children is Greek government policy. These Syrians could be walking into Greece rather than drowning.
Quote:www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2015/10/31/greece-protesters-target
About 500 anti-government protesters, who traveled from Athens and several towns in northern Greece were involved in the clashes near the border with Turkey after challenging a police cordon blocking access to the fence that spans more than 10 kilometers (6.2 miles).
The demonstrators are demanding that Greece tear down the fence and allow refugees to cross by land instead of risking their lives on the sea crossing to Europe.
The government says it cannot remove the fence for "practical reasons" and has called on other European Union countries to speed up additional support promised for search and rescue operations in the east Aegean Sea.
More than 60 people, half of them children, have died in the past four days while trying to reach Lesbos and other Greek islands from the Turkish coast.
-border-fence-after-refugee-deaths
If Alexis Tsipras, Greece's Prime Minister, will not give the order to remove the fence with Turkey, he should reduce confusion about the situation rather than let it take care of itself. He should have the Greek Navy machine gun the Syrians while they are in their boats. Sounds absurd, right? Not for Tsipras; in July he had a referendum vote that decided to NOT take the bailout deal the Germans were offering Greece. Two weeks later he took the deal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_Tsipras#Bailout_agreement
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Quote:Vote. Try to tell the people you know about this in a way that will move them.
WHAT
THE
FUCK
My life is otherwise wortheless. How can I help stop this? I don't mean giving money. I mean head-first nose-dive kamakazie action to keep this shit from ever being replicated again?-6IX
Quote:Yes, please be there for your niece. You are MUCH more valuable to her alive than dead ... provided you get a hold of your drinking habit.
The only reason I'm still here right now is because I believe I'm better off alive to her than dead in our collective recent future....
Quote:6IX, any woman who rejects you because of your lack of wealth ... now, there's a girl you don't want to get mixed up with anyway.
When a man has gotten to that age that he just doesn't care and can't get the cute young girl anymore because of his less than rich status, he can just push the button and sacrafice himself for the betterment of his bloodline.
OTOH, it's not out of the question for a woman to want stability. I chose hubby because he's intelligent, hard-working and serious although at the time he was a poor motorcycle mechanic going to university part-time. I think he chose me for the same reason, although I was a scholarship student with not a penny to my name.
Quote:PFFFWAAAHHH! You just made coffee shoot from my nose, damn you!
Sorry Hillary..... Barack made sure we have at least 5 terms of nothing but old white men through 2030.....
Too true!
But that's only because people vote "identity politics" ... that is, they vote for/against someone because of that person's race, gender, age, religion, etc, not because of what they've done, or any realistic expectation of what they'll do. That's how we got "Uncle Tom" Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court. He had the support of "the black community" because ... well, he was black. They thought he would represent them, when in reality all Uncle Tom was was a house slave who would lick the massah's boots clean, if they asked.
I'm not voting for Hillary. Not because she's an old white hag, but because she's a corrupt neocon in Democrat's clothing. Just being a woman doesn't make you better - heck, look at Clinton (soul has been sold to neocons), Yellen (happily sold to USA banks) and Christine LaGarde (willingly sold to intl banks).
Quote:Good motto.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:If THOSE are your priorities, then your priorities are as fucked-up as I've been saying all along.
Wrong. It IS exactly the fact that YOU posted them.-GSTRING
Quote:Oh, what a load of hogwash! You can't even recognize the truth when it's in front of your face. And when someone sticks it under your nose, you can't handle it. YOUR reaction to the TRUTH that the USA has killed somewhere to the north of 75,000 children (more like a several hundred thousand) children?
Your tactics are as self-serving and smarmy as the lowest politician and just as untrustworthy. You can't be trusted to tell the Truth - any truth.
Not "Oh my go, that's terrible."
Not "What can we do to not do that again?"
Or How did we ever get into this mess in the first place?
Not How can we stop?
Or What can we do to fix this?"
It's been
Eeeew! SIGGY posted it! That makes it a LIE! I'm not looking! It's in POOR TASTE! SIGGY is a sick f..!
All you've managed to demonstrate is that it is more important TO YOU to "win". Instead of reacting to the individual and collective tragedies of our foreign policy, you've wasted 100% of your time by attacking me, as if I were the bigger problem!
You have not made a single step towards demonstrating that you're NOT a sick fuck.
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Quote:The truth is that Greece has more than enough commercial ferry boats to transport everybody. Rather than Syrians paying Turks for illegal rides into Greece, the Syrians could be paying Greeks, but that's not happening.
Originally posted by G:
Where's your TRUTH?
The drownings have cast an unflattering light on Europe’s immigration policies and the slow pace at which EU leaders have moved to deal with the emergency. After 22 people drowned in two separate incidents on Friday, the Greek prime minister, Alexis Tsipras, accused the continent of an “inability to defend its values” by offering a safe alternative to the dangerous sea journeys.
Tsipras will not admit that he, all by himself, could provide the safe alternative. The Syrians will be paying Turks for the boat ride. Why can't the Syrians pay Greece for a far safer ride? The Prime Minister of Greece can make it happen and it won't cost Greece anything because Syrians will be paying all costs!
Tsipras will visit Lesbos, the Aegean island that has borne the brunt of the influx, with the president of the European parliament, Martin Schulz, later this week. www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/01/bodies-of-11-refugees-most-of-th
em-infants-recovered-off-greece
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"Dumb hag - you nitpick my word use ..."
You mean when you deliberately misrepresented what Signy posted? Though, in your defense, I'm sure you think mere lying is a trifle ...
"How's that search going for all the times you say I said I wanted to kill civilians?"
Oh yeah - and this? A complete fabrication. As usual. BTW - I invite you to find that quote where you were accused of wanting to kill civilians. A quote where anybody actually says you *WANT* (using that word) to kill civilians will do.
I can wait.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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In my humble opinion, very few of the EU nations are obligated to take refugees.
Why??
Because they didn't cause the problem.
No, that honor belongs to
(1) The USA, for the destruction of Afghanistan
(2) The USA and Coalition of the Willing (Billing, and Shilling) for the invasion of Iraq
(3) The USA, France, UK, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey for the destruction of Libya
(4) The USA, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, Jordan etc for the attempted destruction of Syria
(5) Frau Merkel, who extended the welcome mat.
Hmmm... so starting with the USA (whose name appears more than once) and Saudi Arabia (and it's Merrie Band of Terrorists who benefited greatly from the chaos that the USA and its allies visited on the ME) they should start shelling out lots and lots and lots of goods and funds to the impacted nations so that the refugees/migrants can be decently fed, housed, and held in-place until such as time as their nations have been stabilized and they can be safely returned home. Yanno, turn the refugees from being a financial burden to a financial asset. Or just take in the two or three million refugees (but who the hell wants to go to Saudi Arabia??) directly.
Greece, whose economy is really suffering under Troika austerity, is almost as much a victim as Syria and Iraq etc. The Greek nation should be recompensed for shouldering the burden that the USA and its allies caused. It's emblematic of the USA that is expects its "friends" to clean up the messes that the USA creates. My god, it's like following an elephant parade with a whisk broom.
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GSTRING
Quote:It's going GREAT!
How's that search going for all the times you say I said I wanted to kill civilians?
I never said that at all, so my search is done before it even started!
To refresh your memories, I'll just go to the first page, which is:
Quote:
Sig: "Unlike you, I don't condone killing Ukrainians en masse. I just don't condone it when they do it to others."
RAHLMACLAREN: "Sure. Prove that G did. When. Where.Cite it. One exact post.
Maybe English is your third language, but that's no excuse for not websearching a word that you don't understand. Do you know what the word "condone" means??
Apparently not! Here, let me help you out with words you were too ignorant to understand and too lazy to look up:
Quote:
CONDONE
1.)to disregard or overlook (something illegal, objectionable, or the like):
The government condoned the computer hacking among rival corporations.
2.) to give tacit approval to:
By his silence, he seemed to condone their behavior.
Now WHAT have I been chivying (that's another word for you to look up) GSTRING for all this time? His relative SILENCE on events where a lot of real people are being killed.
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Quote:Alexis Tsipras has to be paid before he will save lives? Despite being poor, Greece could almost completely end the drownings in the Aegean Sea. The rest of the Mediterranean is beyond that Greek's ability. Blame Alexis Tsipras. Put him on your culprit list.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
No, that honor belongs to
(1) The USA, for the destruction of Afghanistan
(2) The USA and Coalition of the Willing (Billing, and Shilling) for the invasion of Iraq
(3) The USA, France, UK, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey for the destruction of Libya
(4) The USA, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, Jordan etc for the attempted destruction of Syria
(5) Frau Merkel, who extended the welcome mat.
. . .
Greece, whose economy is really suffering under Troika austerity, is almost as much a victim as Syria and Iraq etc. The Greek nation should be recompensed for shouldering the burden that the USA and its allies caused.
Why is Erdogan of Turkey not on your list? He is not helpless.
And why is Bashar al-Assad not on your list of culprits to blame for drowning Syrians? While you're expanding and reordering the list, add Turkish smugglers who overload boats. And Jehovah if you are a believer. Israel could be on the list, too, for without Israel the USA would not be deeply involved in the Middle E.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Erdogan is DENFINITELY on my list. You might have noticed that I pointed out TURKEY as being part of the cause of the problem??
Why is Erdogan of Turkey not on your list? He is not helpless.
Turkey has been hosting over two million refugees for several years now. It appears (to me) that this "sudden" influx of refugees into Europe ... refugees from Afghanistan and Iraq and Libya as well as Syria ... refugees who have been cooling their heels in Turkey for a few years already ... has nothing to do with the state of fighting in Syria and a lot to do with Turkey engineering the sudden release of hostag ... I mean, refugees ... into the EU as a pressure point.
Quote:I don't think you know what poverty is in Greece. You seem to think its just a term for not having enough money in the bank. As far as GREECE is concerned, it is THE poorest nation in the EU. HALF of Greek children experience "food insecurity" and 25% experience actual hunger. HALF of young adults are unemployed. 36% of Greeks live in poverty. http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2015/10/17/great-achievement-after-5-
Despite being poor, Greece could almost completely end the drownings in the Aegean Sea.
5-austerity-years-36-of-greeks-at-risk-of-poverty/ Pensioners are out on the street, some Greeks are starving to death. THIS is the nation that should take on the burden of millions of potential refugees and migrants?? Do that, and Greece runs the risk of not being just "poor" but a "failed state".
Meanwhile, the USA is sitting fat and happy, isolated from all the trouble it has stirred up? I believe, among other things, in balancing responsibility with authority. Why make Greece responsible for something it has no authority to either stop or start?
An ethical response from the USA (and the UK) would be to open our pocketbooks and pour money onto the problem, instead of "helplessly" wringing our hands from afar.
Quote:He's responsible for creating al Qaida and ISIS, and for attempting to overthrow his own government by using jihadi nut-jobs?
And why is Bashar al-Assad not on your list of culprits to blame for drowning Syrians?
Quote:Yep, I blame them too.
While you're expanding and reordering the list, add Turkish smugglers who overload boats.
Quote:It might be, but in this case I find Saudi Arabia and the rest of the GCC more complicit than Israel. Because, yanno, we have ANOTHER reason to be in the ME: Oil.
Israel could be on the list, too, for without Israel the USA would not be deeply involved in the Middle E.
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Quote:Oh, perhaps you didn't see the definition of "condone" (which I helpfully provided above). Please go read it and educate yourself.
So how's that search going for all the times you say I said I condoned bombing civilians?-GSTRING
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What the USA is donating is a pittance compared to the problem. When our donations to the region match the amount of money we spent on destroying it ($1trillion+) then I'll figure we're serious about it.
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Quote:
So how's that search going for all the times you say I said I condoned bombing civilians?-GSTRING
Oh, perhaps you didn't see the definition of "condone" (which I helpfully provided above). Please go read it and educate yourself.-SIGNY
Quote:
Me: "Do you really think someone thinks bombing civilians is ok?"-GSTRING
You: "Yes, you."-SIGNY
I guess I should have indicated [/snark]. Because what have I been pointing to ... over and over and over and over... it's your SILENCE on the topic of people getting killed, your diversions from the topic when challenged ... it certainly does speak to a level of tolerance for the killings. The focus of the vast bulk of your posts indicate EXACTLY how much you "care".
And yanno what? You're still making yourself the focus of the conversation, and I'm just apparently enabling a narcissist. It's not all about you. Really, it isn't!
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I guess I should have indicated [/snark]. Because what have I been pointing to ... over and over and over and over... it's your SILENCE on the topic of people getting killed, your diversions from the topic when challenged ... it certainly does speak to a level of tolerance for the killings. The focus of the vast bulk of your posts indicate EXACTLY how much you "care".
And yanno what? You're still making yourself the focus of the conversation, and I'm just apparently enabling a narcissist. It's not all about you. Really, it isn't!
Except that's not true - so wrong again. I was the one who started the thread about Russia invading Ukraine and I was the first one to post in that thread about how this would likely lead to civilian casualties on both sides and how sad that was.
When asked by Kiki what I thought if there was no full scale invasion (snicker), I said who cares, it's not about me.
So actually the opposite of what you're saying.
And he's still talking about ... himself!
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Quote:
And wrong again. I'm talking about you being wrong again.
Uh huh.
So, do you want to keep on talking about you? Or do you want to talk about something else? Because so far, in this entire thread, the only thing you managed to talk about is (1)you and (2)what you think I think about you and (3) what you feel about me.
[/snicker]
ETA: Yanno what? That was an unfair reply, because it's destined to jerk yet another personal response from you. I'll stop talking about you now, if YOU'LL stop talking about you now!
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not sure how accurate but interesting, I seen vids Lizardheads like Icke, a from Canadian white-first nationalist, the UKIPs and AlexJones style alternative news, on facebook, twitter etc its a shame when u have to see truth on tinfoil head sites like these....mainstream media is dead now
but Alan B West and other more mainstream people are finally speaking out
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Finally…U.S. forces just crushed ISIS in Iraq, but there’s one question I must ask…
http://www.allenbwest.com/allen/finally-u-s-forces-just-crushed-isis-i
n-iraq-but-theres-one-question-i-must-ask
Quote:
On Wednesday, a second group of ISIS vehicles and fighters formed east of Ramadi, in the Albu Bali neighborhood, Garver said.
“When strikes from both Iraqi and coalition air hit the convoy, the Daesh fighters abandoned their vehicles and fled on foot,” he said. “We estimate coalition strikes destroyed approximately 120 Daesh vehicles. Again, we know the Iraqi security forces destroyed more.
I’ve read some reports that some 250 ISIS fighters were killed. Finally… but I must ask, why did it take so long?
anyways that may be the start of step one
and even if they, the US and its allies such as the new Iraqi military reclaim Iraq....you still have ISIS operations in Libya, Syria, Turkey etc so I doubt this refugee wave is over
Some have wondered if a formation of a Kurdish State exmaple Kurdistan would act as a barrier between the militant terrorists of Syria, Iraq, Iran, Turkey
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