Scientists agree ... Consensus on Global Warming
POSTED BY: Ghoulman
UPDATED: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:42
VIEWED: 22755
PAGE 2 of 21
People resist because most of the 'findings' are nothing but inaccurate, misleading tripe intended on creating a 'chicken little ' mentality.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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To highlight the absurdity of the claims, here are the quotes again, with numbers:
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Erebus spews out more greenhouse gasses per week (505 tonnes) than combined human industry does in a year (7,000,000,000 tonnes).
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The eruption of Mt. Pinatubo, Philippines (1991) released more gasses into the atmosphere (7,710 kT) than all the factories and automobiles in the entire history of mankind (92,044 kT per year).
These claims don't come close to computing with reality.
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I never said that Dacite was a gas. Pardon the impression if that's how you read it. My POINT was that eruptions put out more gasses than does mankind. And eruptions aren't just 'one and done' events. They can last for weeks, months, years.... off and on. Mt Pinatubo was a large eruption , but only the 3rd largest in the last CENTURY. There have been many larger ones over the course of time. None of these eruptions were caused by man, but by nature.
So, does that mean we can pump raw sewage into the lakes and streams and not worry about anything ? Nope. Never remotely tried to make that silly claim either. Just put things into perspective, and realize this planet has been around for a whle and seen more than we can imagine.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:A point which you fell FAR short of demonstrating. So, please, help yourself to the internet and supply real references for your suppositions. Or, let me speed it up. You will find that human activity at least doubles the global SO2 budget, and is at least equal to the total of ALL naturally occurring sources (not just volcanoes).
eruptions put out more gasses than does mankind
Quote:But hey, you're not arguing for the status quo, are you? Neither are you partisan, I'll bet. It's just that you and Bush know more than the scientists who actually, you know, study these things. So OK, oh scientific guru, what was the cause of the violent climate shifts over the course of 2 bn years?
But hey, lets not get into dusty old details about the history of this planet. It's far more fun to ignore the facts and just blame Bush, right?
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
People resist because most of the 'findings' are nothing but inaccurate, misleading tripe intended on creating a 'chicken little ' mentality.
Um, you do know how to read a graph, right?
Human impact is happening. The green house gases have sky-rocketed. There has been more and more violent climate changes from season to season for the past number of years.
As an example, this time of year 2 decades ago, when I was a kid, I made tunnels in the snow in my front yard, and had been doning so for a month or two.
Currently, you'd be lucky to find enough snow on my parents lawn, and there neighbours lawn, and there neighbours lawn... (you get the point) to make one snow pile.
Hello global warming.
What about the massive heat waves in Europe this past summer? What about Winnipeg's (a couple years ago) ever lasting winter (it lasted about 2 months too long)?
Insurance companies are starting to notice increased claims.
Rue's posted links, I got found that graph on http://www.davidsuzuki.org/. I get my knowledge from those that are "in the know." So, I now echo Rue's request. Please provide some links to where your information comes from.
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Just put things into perspective, and realize this planet has been around for a whle and seen more than we can imagine.
The survival of the planet isn't in doubt. What is in question is "life as we know it". People who go on about how the planet adjusts automatically have a point but the best way it has of getting back to a balanced system is to wipe us out, not that we're not doing our level best to do this ourselves.
People talk about "Well, the Earth naturally produces twice as much CO2 as mankind outputs." That may be true but this of it this way. If you were to eat an extra 50% on all your meals, how long before you were a bloated giant?
An ecosystem is like a seesaw, push one end down and something else pops up. There's going to be consequences if we keep casually messing around with the Earth and it's our children who will pay the price (plus me, I'm going to live forever).
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EPA has quite a lot of info on Global Warming as well. They seem to take it pretty seriously.
http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/content/index.html
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
The survival of the planet isn't in doubt. What is in question is "life as we know it". People who go on about how the planet adjusts automatically have a point but the best way it has of getting back to a balanced system is to wipe us out, not that we're not doing our level best to do this ourselves.
Exactly!!! I have perfect confidence that the Earth will survive anything that we can throw at it. But, I also have full confidence that we can't survive what changes the Earth goes through because of what we throw at the Earth.
It's time for things to change. Europe has been doing this for some time and I know for a fact that there are forests in Germany that are coming back along with the animals that used to live there.
It's proof that if we do something, things can get better. That is, if we aren't past the point of no return already. I don't think we are... yet, but there are scientists who do.
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Rue:
Quote:
The eruption of Mt. Pinatubo, Philippines (1991) released more gasses into the atmosphere (7,710 kT) than all the factories and automobiles in the entire history of mankind (92,044 kT per year).
Yeah, my comments per Mt Pinatubo ( released more gases into the atmosphere than all the factories and automobiles in the entire history of manking.. ) way out of whack and I can't account for why/where I heard my info...thus I retract that statement. One minor corretion.... the amount of SO2 released by Mt Pinatubo was closer to 20 Kt, not 7, and that 20 Kt figure was mainly w/ in the 9 hr time span of the height of the eruption. Overall, the bulk of the volcanic activity lasted from June 12 - 16th, with minor events ocuring pre and post eruption.
Here are the facts.
June of 1991 Mt. Pinatubo erupted and released volcanic products that made a large impact on the stratosphere. (NASA web page) On June 15, 1991 the climatic eruption occurred with a duration of 9 hours, this eruptive event disgorged a cubic mile of volcanic debris and vented 18.14 million metric tons of sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere and after reaching the stratosphere encircled the Earth in 3 weeks. This was the largest sulfur dioxide cloud ever detected to date by satellite (McGee 2001), and was 3 times more sulfur dioxide than was released by the El Chichon eruption . (Average comp. Pinatubo web page)
Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1992). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 22 billion tonnes per year (24 billion tons). Human activities release more than 150 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of nearly 17,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 13.2 million tonnes/year)!
As well as sulfur, CO2, H2O, and a small amount of chlorine were released to the stratosphere (Gerlach and others, this volume), and some of the water may have been important in early formation of aerosols. Electron microprobe analyses of glass inclusions and matrix glass in Pinatubo dacitic pumice suggests that up to 4.4 wt% H2O was exsolved from the magma to a gas phase, implying the release of about 250 to 500 Mt of H2O during the June 15 eruption (Westrich and Gerlach, 1992; Gerlach and others, this volume). Although 3 Mt of chlorine was erupted (Gerlach and others, this volume) and was potentially available for subsequent participation in ozone-destroying reactions (Turco, 1991), observations by airborne infrared Fourier transform spectrometry of the stratospheric cloud 3 weeks after the June 15 eruption showed little increase in HCl above stratospheric background levels (Mankin and others, 1992; Wallace and Livingston, 1992). Erupted chlorine, as HCl, is highly soluble in water and is very efficiently scavenged by water droplets in the eruption column and rapidly returned to the surface of the Earth as precipitation (Tabazadeh and Turco, 1993). Much of the chlorine may have thus been removed from the atmosphere during or shortly after eruption.
Long story short, there is a clear increase in green house gases being recorded, but the jury is still out as to how these affect the atmosphere. In reality, there hasn't been NEAR enough time to conclusivly say whether or not man's activities are afecting the global climate.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Long story short, there is a clear increase in green house gases being recorded, but the jury is still out as to how these affect the atmosphere. In reality, there hasn't been NEAR enough time to conclusivly say whether or not man's activities are afecting the global climate.
OK, fine, lets say that everything that we are doing isn't effecting the global climate one little bit.
It has been seen that we are effecting the local climate significantly. Look to any paper about smog trapping heat, etc. Look to any paper about toxins entering the water-table, soil, etc.
So, it has been proven that even with the assumption above, we are killing ourselves.
So, at this point, you're going to have to explain to me why we as a world, shouldn't implement Kyoto or any other enviornmental protection scheme beyond it.
Isn't our own survival more important than a couple dollars? After all, no-one can make much money if we are only fighting for survival and no-one can make any money if everyone is dead.
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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