How Safe is Canada

POSTED BY: piratejenny
UPDATED: Saturday, January 31, 2026 18:13
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CONNORFLYNN

Thursday, November 4, 2004 6:30 PM

Quote:
Canadian sub adrift after fire
Tuesday, October 5, 2004 Posted: 5:46 PM EDT (2146 GMT)

OTTAWA, Ontario (Reuters) -- A Canadian submarine was drifting without power in heavy seas off the coast of Scotland on Tuesday night after a fire knocked out its diesel engines and injured nine crew members.

HMCS Chicoutimi, one of four trouble-plagued secondhand submarines that Canada bought from Britain, was on its way to Halifax with 57 people on board when the fire broke out in an electrical panel.

A senior Canadian official, speaking at 2:10 p.m. (1810 GMT) Ottawa time, said a British towing vessel would take between 12 to 14 hours to reach the submarine.

"The boat is without power and has only limited means of communicating at this time," Navy Commodore Tyrone Pyle told reporters in Halifax, saying winds in the area were greater than 30 knots (35 mph, 55 km/h).

"The seas are rough and with the submarine on the surface they (the crew) are going to have some discomfort from rolling and tossing," Pyle said, answering "No" when asked whether there had been any danger of losing the craft.

Although the fire was quickly put out, the submarine had to surface to get rid of the smoke. Nine crew members suffered the effects of smoke inhalation.

The Chicoutimi is non-nuclear powered and carries no nuclear warheads. Canada does not have nuclear weapons.

Pyle said the submarine was 125 miles (200 km) west of the Scottish coast. A British spokesman earlier said the craft was some 80 miles (135 km) off the northwest Irish coast.

A Royal Air Force Nimrod patrol plane and three Royal Navy ships were on their way to the scene in case an evacuation was needed, but this was unlikely, the British spokesman said.

The fire is the latest in a long line of problems to hit the submarines, which have been plagued by serious mechanical mishaps such as cracks in the diesel exhaust valves and a number of leaks. They are mostly confined to port.

Ottawa insists it got a good deal when it agreed to buy the second-hand submarines from Britain for C$750 million ($595 million) in 1998. But opposition legislators say the purchase reflects incompetence by the Liberal government.

"I do not believe we purchased substandard equipment ... the price was very attractive to Canada," said Defence Minister Bill Graham, who nevertheless admitted that the fire was an "important problem."

"Other ships have had fires in the past and no doubt there will be fires on board ships in the future -- this is something that our professional mariners are capable of managing ... There are risks in being in our Navy," he told reporters.

Graham said the submarine would return to the Scottish port of Faslane for a detailed probe into the fire.

If Canada is worried about the US, they had better start investing in some modern technology ROFLMAO... I feel sorry for their military more and more every day.

I particularly liked the one quote "There are risks in being in our navy." LOL

SIGMANUNKI

Thursday, November 4, 2004 6:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
To all you Canadians out there, If the U.S becames a Facist nation under the Bush administration, to you guys fear the U.S

and do you plan on protecting your democracy, I'm going to give it a year maybe a little more but if I start to see things going dark in this country I'm running to Canada

I predict that within two to six months they will at least be talking about the draft, I have a brother and if I get a whiff of any draft being implemented it might be sooner then that

so I'm just curious as to what Canadians think about whats going on in this country

First off, the US is already well on its way (if not already there) a facist nation.

Secondly, the bulk of us think that what's going on down there absolutly appaulling. But, there is a significant conservative presences here. I would think that it has to do with some relatively recent things that the Liberals did (Under Chretien), which made people angry, which lead to this. I would think that it'll re-balance itself in the next little while.

Thirdly, the US being able to invade Canada successfully is a laughable idea. We are *far* to big for you guys to do it. Especially since you can't even control a country the size of Iraq. Especially since the world would have none of it and would come and help instantly (it's nice to be liked

). So, yes, we'll protect our country, along with *a lot* of help.

Fourthly, a good indicator of the level of horror that goes on in a country can be the intellectuals leaving. So, once you start seeing those PhD people leaving and/or stop coming... Oh, wait. These things are already happening.

On the topic of immigration. I beleive when it comes to Canada, we let people in for a max of 6 months. This would be under a tourist visa and as such one cannot become gainfully imployed.

If one seeks to immigrate to Canada. You basically need to have secured employment (or skills that are in demand) and a clean criminal record.

My wife is currently applying for permanent residence and has told me how friendly the staff is and how informative the Immegration Canada website is. They even give you a check list to make sure you have all the proper docs before you send everything in

I already know of one person here that wishes to have me send our experiences about this to him/her. Is anyone else interested? If there are, I'll post a new thread once all is said and done.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

SIGMANUNKI

Thursday, November 4, 2004 6:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JaynezTown:
Yeah..I did recall those Canucks actually beating the US in some little border war...I think the USA was busy with Mexico at the time and the Canadians started kickin once the US tried to expand further north....not sure when it happened but it's some war you'll find Canadians rubbing in the faces of the US from time to time

Um, it was a touch more than a border war. You better check a history book. After all, we *did* burn down the white house.

Oh, and I've seen some recent pictures of it. You rebuilt it, good for you, it looks nice.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

HANS

Thursday, November 4, 2004 7:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Kerry was the draft guy. I don't understand why it got put on Bush.

Bush: "Military is right size"
Kerry: "We need a larger army"
Republicans: "No draft"
Democrats (Led by a prominant black House Democrat): "Here a bill authorizing a draft"

Good thing I voted for Bush. I definately oppose a new draft.

H

I think this is why there's such a hatred for Bush and his supporters - the way they twist the truth like you did above.

If you took one second to know the background of the whole draft situation you'd know that the pro-draft bill was introduced as a protest. It was a way of saying that the way the US was using up its troops, the draft would have to be introduced sooner or later. Nobody who introduced the bill actually supported the draft or expected it to pass.

p.s. Why is it important to you to point out that the democrat was black?

Hans

HANS

Thursday, November 4, 2004 7:12 PM

While Americans can't just waltz into Canada and become permanent citizens, it's not that hard to work here if you have certain skills. There are many jobs listed under NAFTA that make it easy to cross the border and get work for extended periods of time (if not permanent citizenship). As a Canadian I'd welcome with open arms any Americans who want to come north. Of course, that would make the remaining population in the US even more extremist.

It's easy to fall back on knee jerk anti-Americanism these days. I need to remind myself that the US is a huge, diverse, dynamic country with many people who are not right-wing fundamentalist nut jobs. Of course, if all the democrats and liberals and progressives headed north then the US really would turn into the quasi-fascist state that many fear. A better solution then leaving your country might be finding some way, any way, to counter the rednecks and war-mongers that have taken your great country hostage.

Hans

PHYSCHICK

Thursday, November 4, 2004 7:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Quote:
Originally posted by JaynezTown:
Yeah..I did recall those Canucks actually beating the US in some little border war...I think the USA was busy with Mexico at the time and the Canadians started kickin once the US tried to expand further north....not sure when it happened but it's some war you'll find Canadians rubbing in the faces of the US from time to time

Um, it was a touch more than a border war. You better check a history book. After all, we *did* burn down the white house.

Ah, Three Dead Trolls in a Baggie. Sing along!

Oh, come back, proud Canadians
To before you had TV,
No hockey night in Canada,
There was no CBC (Oh, my God!).
In 1812, Madison was mad,
He was the president, you know
Well, he thought he’d tell the British where they ought to go
He thought he’d invade Canada,
He thought that he was tough
Instead we went to Washington....
And burned down all his stuff!

And the White House burned, burned, burned,
And we’re the one’s that did it!
It burned, burned, burned,
While the president ran and cried.
It burned, burned, burned,
And things were very historical.
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
Waa waa waah!
In the War of 1812!

Now some hillbillies from Kentucky,
Dressed in green and red,
Left home to fight in Canada,
But they returned home dead
It’s the only war the Yankees lost, except for Vietnam
And also the Alamo... and the Bay of... ham.
The loser was America,
The winner was ourselves,
So join right in and gloat about the War of 1812

And the White House burned, burned, burned,
And we’re the one’s that did it!
It burned, burned, burned,
While the president ran and cried.
It burned, burned, burned,
And things were very historical.
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
Waa waa waah!
In the War of 1812!

In 1812, we were just sittin’ around,
Mindin’ our own business, puttin’ crops into the ground.
We heard the soldiers coming and we didn’t like that sound.
So we took a boat to Washington and burned it to the ground.

Oh... we... fired our guns, but the Yankees kept-a coming,
There wasn’t quite as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and the Yankees started running,
Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico, oh, oh....
They ran through the snow and they ran through the forest,
They ran through the bushes where the beavers wouldn’t go.
They ran so fast, they forgot to take their culture,
Back to America, and Gulf and Texaco

So, if you go to Washington, its buildings clean and nice,
Bring a pack of matches, and we’ll burn the White House twice!

And the White House burned, burned, burned,
But the Americans won’t admit it
It burned, burned, burned,
It burned and burned and burned
It burned, burned, burned,
Now, I bet that made them mad
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
Waa waa waah!
In the War of 1812!

CONNORFLYNN

Thursday, November 4, 2004 7:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Thirdly, the US being able to invade Canada successfully is a laughable idea. We are *far* to big for you guys to do it. Especially since you can't even control a country the size of Iraq. Especially since the world would have none of it and would come and help instantly (it's nice to be liked ). So, yes, we'll protect our country, along with *a lot* of help.

Puhhhhllleassse...

Firstly, If the world was so appalled by the US going into Lil ole Iraq and didn't come running to Iraq's aid..what makes you think they would come running to Canada's aid, if the US had a legitimate (or illegitimate) reason to invade? Hell I'd give the UN approximately a decade before they got around to making a decision about what to do about it. At which point it would be moot.

Secondly,

Here’s a look at Canada by the numbers.

Population
30,007,094 (2001 census)

Land
Canada occupies 9,093,507 sq km, making it the second largest country in the world after Russia.
Canada has 252,684 km of coastline and borders (243,791 km of coastline, 8,893 km of borders).

Military Expenditure
Price of F-18A Hornet fighter jet: $50,000,000.
Canada's defence budget for 2001/2002: $10,570,000,000 - enough to buy 211 Hornets.

(Approximately 1/40th of the US annual military budget)

Armed Forces

Today: 60,000 military personnel including 9,500 sailors, 19,000 soldiers, 13,000 air men and women and 18,500 administrative and support personnel. There are also 21,500 reservists.

Navy

Today: There are 34 warships and 9,500 sailors in Canada's navy.

Canada in NATO:
Of NATO's 19 member countries, Canada is...
1st in land area (9,093,507 sq km), and sixth in total military spending ($10,570,000,000)

Now , lets take a look at the US numbers-

1.4 million men and women on active duty
1.35 million volunteers serving in the Guard and Reserve
35,000 Coast Guard men and women on active duty
6,315 Coast Guard civilians
8,370 members serving in the Coast Guard Selected Reserve
32,000 volunteers serving in the Coast Guard Auxiliary.

US military spending is approximately $400 billion, not counting Iraq spending.

With that done..Our Coast Guard almost out numbers Canada's entire military, reservists included. Our population size also dwarfs Canada's. The other major difference between Iraq's insurgency and what I would predict would occur on the Canadian side..is that there just aren't enough kooks in Canada who would willingly commit suicide in the hopes of killing a few troops.

With that said..It's laughable to even think that we would ever invade/attack Canada. Not only do we consider Canada a friend but also an ally in arms. Perhaps that is the reason why Canada's military is virtually non-existent. They don't need to have one.

JASONZZZ

Thursday, November 4, 2004 7:54 PM

That's actually quite a refreshing and turned-around view from just several months back when the Canadians (well, at least the border cities) absolutely hated the influx of Americans since they were taking all of the good jobs and driving up the realestate prices.

I am glad that once again I can buy up 3 or 4 adjacent lots of lake front property, bulldoze the existing houses and build a castle, all for $0.50. US.

Thanks, ;-)

Quote:
Originally posted by Hans:
While Americans can't just waltz into Canada and become permanent citizens, it's not that hard to work here if you have certain skills. There are many jobs listed under NAFTA that make it easy to cross the border and get work for extended periods of time (if not permanent citizenship). As a Canadian I'd welcome with open arms any Americans who want to come north. Of course, that would make the remaining population in the US even more extremist.

It's easy to fall back on knee jerk anti-Americanism these days. I need to remind myself that the US is a huge, diverse, dynamic country with many people who are not right-wing fundamentalist nut jobs. Of course, if all the democrats and liberals and progressives headed north then the US really would turn into the quasi-fascist state that many fear. A better solution then leaving your country might be finding some way, any way, to counter the rednecks and war-mongers that have taken your great country hostage.

Hans

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HERO

Thursday, November 4, 2004 9:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hans:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Kerry was the draft guy. I don't understand why it got put on Bush.

Bush: "Military is right size"
Kerry: "We need a larger army"
Republicans: "No draft"
Democrats (Led by a prominant black House Democrat): "Here a bill authorizing a draft"

Good thing I voted for Bush. I definately oppose a new draft.

H

If you took one second to know the background of the whole draft situation you'd know that the pro-draft bill was introduced as a protest.

Ah, so the side wanting more troops and proposing a draft, really doesn't want a draft and the side that does not want more troops or a draft plans to have a draft. With a message like that, I can't understand how the Democrats failed to 'Kerry' the nation.

Quote:

p.s. Why is it important to you to point out that the democrat was black?

One, because I didn't have Charles Rangel (D, NY) name at my fingertips.

Two, because the reason he wants a draft is because a disproportionate number of African Americans are being killed and wounded in the war. In other words, its all about RACE. He wants white, especially wealthy white students, to pay their fair share. Actual casualty figures show that blacks are suffering far less casualties then their makeup in the units. Whites are marginally higher, but the hispanics are the only ones with cause to complain.

Seems to me the Democrats tried to use the Draft as a galvanizing wedge issue (like the Republican used gay marriage ballot initiatives). I think it was a good strategy, bullshit...but good bullshit, like the Kerry Vietnam/POW argumemt, as opposed to bad bullshit, like the Bush knew about 9/11 and the Kerry faked his war record. But the facts killed them:

Facts: Only party advocating both more troops and a draft was the Democratic party. The rest is speculation.

H

GHOULMAN

Thursday, November 4, 2004 9:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TauSetiPrime:
Quote:

Bill lost his whole TV show when he made comments about the 9/11 highjackers being brave, if crazy. His was prolly the best known instance of the media falling over itself to please it's corporate masters who, in turn, are Bushites (as all corporations are).

Was this on broadcast? cable? Ive only been able to gleen bits and pieces from the sites that I have read, but it seems to point more to advertising being pulled than Bush's influence in corporate America (which, I agree with you, is trully Bush Country).

Surely, you can see that this is not a popular position to be taken.....

Well, to put Bill Mahars comments in context - he was answering something on the news where the 9/11 highjackers were refered to as cowards. Mahar pointed out they aren't very cowardly considering they died for thier beliefs. This got him the boot.

Sure, it might not have been the smartest, or funniest, thing to say but then... in America ... people are supposed to be free to speak thier minds without fear of loosing thier jobs.

This is the same as blacklisting actors in the McCarthy era. Fascism.

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