How Safe is Canada

Wow, typically American is right


Its like the obnoxious ADD bully kid in the playground crying because none of the other kids like him...

" Why doesn't anyone like us "

You just have to feel sorry for them...

Someone feed them some ritalin ... please

or take a long look at the why all us other kids feel this way



" Don't Blame Me I Voted For Kudos "

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article:
"It's reported that when he does come, he will not speak to a Parliament that's so hostile it can't be trusted to receive him politely. "
This is so rediculus it isn't funny.

article:
"Coverage of a Canadian athlete caught doping devolves into complaints about how Americans always get away with cheating."
No it doesn't and yes you do.

article:
"The "Blame Canada" song from the "South Park" movie is taken as documentary evidence of Americans' real attitudes toward this country."
Again, so rediculus it isn't funny. Perhaps she just doesn't understand that our humour is mainly sarcastic and as such she would fail to understand and misinterpret it. I for one laughed at the song.

Also, I've been living in Canada for a long time (my life minus 8 months) and have never heard of such a thing. Where the hell did she get this from?

Or perhaps it's the typical sensationalism american over exageration of everything that we're seeing here.

article:
"The ongoing U.S. ban on importing Canadian cattle (after a case of mad cow disease was traced to Alberta) is interpreted as a form of political persecution."
Perhaps she should look into this a little closer. Our position is that the US closed the boarders for all the wrong reasons. Something that was echoed by the WTO but the US didn't care. See cheating remark above.

article:
"A six o'clock news show introduces a group of parents and children who are convinced that the reason Canadian textbooks give short shrift to America's failed attempts to invade the Canadian territories in the War of 1812 is to avoid antagonizing the Americans -- who are just waiting for an excuse to give it another try. "
Where the hell does she come up with this? Is this a comedy routine? When was this ever said?

article:
"My noisy neighbors revel in Canada's two hockey golds at the 2002 Olympics because "We beat the Americans in America!""
What does this have to do with the discussion at hand?

article:
"The first gay couple to wed in Ontario tells the press, before they say anything else, that they are glad they don't live in the United States."
I would think that given the current attitude toward gays in the US that this would be a very apropriate thing to say. How is this bad? It's clear that the gays have an extremely hard time in the US, especially compared to the time they have here. And again, I highly doubt that this was the *first* words out of there mouths.

article:
"A PR person at the hospital where I work, who has been eager to talk to me about a book I've published, puts down her pen when she learns that I'm American and that the book is nearly devoid of "Canadian content." "
And what context was this in? What was the book about? What was the topic of discussion? What was the actual sentence that informed the person that this book was devoid of Canadian content?

I know while I lived in the US that there were *many* things that the americans said in a way that would be consider *extremely* rude here, but down there it was normal. Perhaps it was something like this.

Funny how she doesn't even consider the culture differences in her analysis of the situation.

article:
"it was common to hear some Canadians voice the opinion that Americans had finally gotten what they deserved."
If this was so common, then how come I *never* heard it? I think that she can't tell the difference between "You got what you deserved." and "With there forgien policy, I'm not surprised it happened. In fact, it was inevitable." *HUGE* difference.

article:
"I heard similar views expressed after Nov. 2, when Americans were perceived to have revealed their true selves and thus to "deserve" a second Bush term. "
How is this not true? The americans *voted* (this time) GW in. After all, we all lie in the bed we make.

Then again, this is also a consiquence of the political system. There is no such thing as a minority government. There is always *one* guy in charge and no-one else really has any say. They also knew that he owns pretty much ever

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@GinoBiffarioni:
Agreed. Perhaps she should look into that mirror thing that she brought up. Seems appropriate

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

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There's more than a few grains of truth in that article from the Post. Canada is not a land of milk and honey, though we do love to pretend it is so. We have faults, and sometimes we're not always honest about facing up to them.

However.

Quite a bit of what I read in that article rang true for me, but from the reverse angle. I lived in the US briefly (from '99 to '03) and ran into quite a lot of the same difficulties and challenges as the author of the article did.

The thing that shocked me the most was the huge, but subtle, differences in cultures. We tend to think of the US and Canada as being more alike than is the case. Yes, many Americans might be relatively ignorant of the rest of the world, but, then again, when one is a citizen of the Superpower (like Rome was, in its day), doesn't that convey a bit of luxury in that regard? It's a natural response. Of course, having been subjected to US media for the better part of four years, I also have a better understanding of why the levels of ignorance remain as high as they do. Garbage in, garbage out.

But before we get on our high horse, let's realize we are better in that regard, but not by much, to judge by some of the studies that have been released recently.

I tend to agree with the author when I talk to my American friends that might be considering moving here in the aftermath of the US elections. I tell them to stop, take a pill, and give the whole thing some really serious thought. Ripping one's life up by the roots and moving to another country is not a thing to be entered in to lightly, and I get the distinct impression that many Americans are suffering from a greener pastures syndrome. The last thing I'd want is for hordes of US citizens coming north expecting Paradise and being horribly disappointed.

For the record, yes, I do think Canada is a better country than the US, just as Americans tend to think and feel the same way about their country. Nothing wrong with it as long as things don't get ugly. One can be proud of one's country without peeing on someone else's.

I think the main thing at work here is a lessening of the willingness of other nations, and specifically Western nations, to remain under the direction of the US as 'leader of the free world'. For a long, long time, the US was the guarantor of the Western democratic way of life and while it was, things went more-or-less smoothly because everyone's interests were headed in the same direction. Once the Warsaw Pact came apart (funnily enough, they were as scared of us as we were of them, as documents leaking out of the Kremlin are beginning to attest), the need to subordinate to the US fell away and it's almost as if an overnight wave of nationalism swept the West and, in Canada at any rate, it suddenly became okay to think that Canada was a 'good' country in its own right.

I'm not certain many Americans understand this, though. At least, that's been my experience. During my time in the US, I often encountered friends who would look at me in a truly puzzled manner when I told them I had no intention to become a US citizen, no matter if I stayed 20 months or 20 years; they simply could not seem to grasp that citizens of other nationalities might love their nation as much as US citizens love the US. I wasn't offended by it, but it was interesting, and there wasn't any malice offered, only confusion. The same sorts of confusion many Canadians express over certain US domestic policies (and, I'm certain, in the reverse on the part of Americans).

What we need to do, on both sides, is to move past the knee-jerk responses (and, yes, I've practiced my fair share), even if, especially if, the jerking of the knee gets rather heated. A person is spectacularly unwilling to listen to an argument when their wind is up.

The danger to Canada is in Canadian citizens and their politicians not having a sufficient amount of backbone in standing up to the US when the US pursues policies that Canada doesn't like. We've already seen, relatively quietly, actions conceptualize

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"
The danger to Canada is in Canadian citizens and their politicians not having a sufficient amount of backbone in standing up to the US "

This is another reason to push our government to encourage elements of our economy to find markets other than the US. With so much of our trade going South, we are are affected too much by the way they run things down there.

If we had even %50 of our trade going elsewhere, we could more effectivly stand up to the Americans when they violate their trade agreements, it seems even though the WTO rules against them and assigns penaltys they always seem to think themselves above following the rules. Either we accept it, or impose tariffs ourselves. Screw the WTO, screw NAFTA. and well, I'm not the accepting type.

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@PBI:
It is true that Canada has its fair share of skeletons in its closet, but where I think the problem comes in is that whenever Canada is brought up, it's usually in context of comparison to the US. It's weird, but I can't remember one conversation in my life when Canada was brought up not in this context. So, we always start off by saying that we're different, we're not the US, and here are the differences.

Also, our "bashing" of the US isn't it in total. We focus on a number of policies and known traits of there culture. If someone like the person who wrote this article actually ask the question, "Well, do you think that there is anything good about the US?", I fully believe that she would've been absolutly shocked with the answer. Because there are good things about it.

As an example of the above, when I talk about there arogance, I only comment on it, but not about its cause or if I blame them for having it. Of course, knowing the media down there, there effective brainwashing in schools that "convince" the students that the US is the best, the general attitudes in society that further this goal, etc I don't really blame them. But, at the same time I do as well.

I believe that it is every persons responsibility to culture oneself. And that would require them to go out to the rest of the world. That would require them to read books on a variety of topics and educate themselves, etc. Clearly, on mass, this isn't happening, not one bit. So, in this regard, I do blame them.

And of course people that are considering moving to just another city should think it over before going, never mind another country. One must "sit on it" for a bit and see if that is really what is
wanted.

When it comes to culture, Canada's culture has been developing nicely. One must realize that being such a young country our culture still hasn't fully developed yet. So, when we are asked about Canada, that's a tough question. We aren't like the European countries that have enjoyed a long history so people have something to point to. This is changing though.

I as well encountered the confusion when the americans I knew found out not only that I had no intention of staying in the country, but that I had (and still don't) no intention of ever returning. My wife thinks the same way, but doesn't mind going back for conferences, etc.

I think that the difference here is that in the US, people get looks of confusion if they say, "No I don't ever plan to become a citizen." whereas here, in this article, she took offence at just the question, "Are you going to apply for citizenship?" It's a rather violent reaction if you ask me.

I believe what need to be done is what you put forth, and for the people in the US to realize that when we citisize them, it's about very specific things. Our countries have rather different values in many regards and both have good reasons for them, or at least they both say they do.

When it comes down to it, if I were to recommend one thing to people in the states, it's, don't just react. You've been doing that in the past number of years and where has it gotten you. Clearly it isn't working for you. So, sit back, calm down, and think about what the problem really is. And not the problems that are on the surface. Look deep down, look to the core values that have lead you to where you are today. See if anything is wrong and change it. Because from where I sit, there are some deep seeded problems in the US mentality, and they are things that won't be fixed in a few years, they're long term fixes. So the US is going to have to stop thinking in the short term and look to the long term (which is one of the problems, IMO).

I definitly agree with you that our polititions need backbones when it comes to dealing with the US. Jean was a great start, and I believe that how he dealt with 9/11 was appropriate beyond words. I think that we've taken a step back lately though and Martin isn't exactly ideal and Harper just wants to bend over for the US and has *way* too much power. P

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I have just a few comments about 'life in Canada' for US expats.

The US has moved down to 27th (same level as Slovenia and Poland) from 18th for quality of life. Chronic urban poverty and a lack of health insurance "45 Million Americans Uninsured, Census Bureau Says" http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C20040
8%5CNAT20040826d.html are major factors. However, the US also has poor education systems, rotting infrastructure, high real unemployment, etc. Canada is not Camelot, but it's better for the average John or Jane Doe than the US.

How does one spot a Canadian in a crowd? They are the ones standing straight, head up and looking around, acting for all the world like they belong. The Americans are the ones looking down on the ground, at the wall, out the window, fiddling with their phones, and doing their best to not meet anyone's eye or to stand out in any way as a potential target to be hustled, or mugged.

I spent enough time in Canada to get a sense of how different Canadian (Anglophone) culture can seem, but for me it was a great thing. My feeling is it is at once more secure, social, and open, and less personal and also less maipulative. But perhaps that had to do with my being mainly in Toronto, which is exceptionally cosmopolitan. Also, I was there for only about 6mos, and still in the honeymoon, enjoying the sights, anthropologist stage. Toronto was a delight and a wonder. I never had a negative reaction to me as an Amercian.

To get a sense of what a move from the US to Canada might have meant for the author (who seems thoroughly alienated) I can only reference my experience of moving from the northeast US - land of the personally conservative but socially liberal - to Los Angeles - the exact opposite. It took years for the assumptions, conversations and opinions of the people around me to not strike me as harsh, and to not feel alien and pointedly excluded. (On average it takes about 7 years to make that adjustment, but some are primed to accept anything as long as it's different and new, while others take longer.)

I'm not nearly as familiar with Canada as I used to be. For years I used to bike 5mi - or about 8km - over the border every few days - both before and after my Toronto stay; and got my news predominantly from the CBC. So I thank the Canadians on this board who've to some extent brought me up to date. Merci beaucoups.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Hardware:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Jasonzzz:


I should explain better. When I say bring some. The some are issues and topics for discussion.

---

Dear Loser,
This thread is about Canadians wondering if their country is safe given the increasing fascist bent of the US government.

When the issue of how political dissenters are seeking asylum and how others are considering securing their children from a possible draft for an unpopular war was raised Hero jumped in obfuscating the truth about why a draft law was proposed and then proclaiming Ohio could take Canada, but it wouldn't be worth the effort.

Xion47 jumped in and pointed out how free enterprise medicine Americans are going to evil socialized medicine Canada to secure influenza shots not available in the US and posted a handy link on how to cut through red tape for Americans looking to stay in Canada.

Connorflynn had to jump in and laugh at the Canadian military and Sigmanuki took issue with that pointing out the fallacy of a US invasion of Canada. Hero goosestepped in and suggested taking away socialized health care to suppress rebellion in the newly conquered Canadian provinces. Then there was a pissing contest between Connorflynn and Ginobiffaroni with you chiming in and discussing root causes of conflict, blame and reward/punishment.

Ginobiffaroni invited all Americans to stop dicking around with other countries and mind our own business and Barnstormer took offense and began putting on display behavior to impress lord knows who.

Then when Ghoulman drew the inevitable line of comparison between the written words and threats of the American members of this thread to the Nazi brownshirts Barnstormer tried to turn it around and point it at the Canadians.

At which time, thoroughly sick of it all, I said you three did not reflect the opinion of every American. Was this wrong? No. As a matter of fact since you three seem to be representing the flyover states of the inbred, misogynizing heartland I think you have validated the question asked in the beginning of this thread.

How safe is Canada? Not very, if only judging by the knuckle-dragging, chest-thumping behavior of you neanderthals.

You've proven the point admirably. You have to shout down every dissenting opinion, no matter how well based or supportable. So, using you three as a model, given that the US is on the road to fascism and dissenters are leaving for other, freedom-loving countries, it logically follows that the US, in an attempt to quash the dissent, just as you have tried to quash dissent by posting, long, rambling exposition, will try to do the same. Since those dissenters are in other sovereign states it follows that the US will go get them. And when you three haven't been able to bury the conversation in your screeching you have resorted to threats. I am confident the US will act accordingly. An invasion seems inevitable.

Post here if you think Hero, Barnstormer and Jasonzzz have at any time admired Hitler or praised Nazi Germany's accomplishments.

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Hardware, can I shine your shoes?
That was cool.

Normally I think people who post stuff like what I'm posting here (fanmail) are creating an unecessarily long thread. But I can't help it. That was awesome, and I'd like to buy you a beer.
:-)

I should get some popcorn too-- I bet the sequel will be fraught with drama and contention!


There is no such thing as a weed.

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Guys, Guys--
We're not going to attack Canada; we're going to buy it! We'll give ya each $10,000 (not tax deductible of course, why complicate things?). Sort of a signing bonus, you might say. Then, lucky you, you'll all be Americans! Wheee! And we'll only have just about doubled our national debt.

Then we'll get rid of pesky functional healthcare and install metal detectors in all of your schools, in which we're going to teach Creationism as a viable scientific alternative to that funky Darwinism.

But hey, Coke and Disney!
So drink up up guys, and enjoy!

Remember, we've got a lot of sovereign nations to preemptively attack in the morning, so make sure you get some sleep!


There is no such thing as a weed.

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