The multipolar world
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 18, 2024 00:50
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I've been looking for a decent summary of recent, grossly under-reported events, so I wouldn't have to post so much. Here it is
Quote:
In Moscow, Xi and Putin Bury Pax Americana
Pepe Escobar • March 22, 2023
What has just taken place in Moscow is nothing less than a new Yalta, which, incidentally, is in Crimea. But unlike the momentous meeting of US President Franklin Roosevelt, Soviet Leader Joseph Stalin, and British Prime Minister Winston Churchill in USSR-run Crimea in 1945, this is the first time in arguably five centuries that no political leader from the west is setting the global agenda.
It’s Chinese President Xi Jinping and Russian President Vladimir Putin that are now running the multilateral, multipolar show. Western exceptionalists may deploy their crybaby routines as much as they want: nothing will change the spectacular optics, and the underlying substance of this developing world order, especially for the Global South.
What Xi and Putin are setting out to do was explained in detail before their summit, in two Op-Eds penned by the presidents themselves. Like a highly-synchronized Russian ballet, Putin’s vision was laid out in the People’s Daily in China, focusing on a “future-bound partnership,” while Xi’s was published in the Russian Gazette and the RIA Novosti website, focusing on a new chapter in cooperation and common development.
Right from the start of the summit, the speeches by both Xi and Putin drove the NATO crowd into a hysterical frenzy of anger and envy: Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova perfectly captured the mood when she remarked that the west was “foaming at the mouth.”
The front page of the Russian Gazette on Monday was iconic: Putin touring Nazi-free Mariupol, chatting with residents, side by side with Xi’s Op-Ed. That was, in a nutshell, Moscow’s terse response to Washington’s MQ-9 Reaper stunt and the International Criminal Court (ICC) kangaroo court shenanigans. “Foam at the mouth” as much as you like; NATO is in the process of being thoroughly humiliated in Ukraine.
During their first “informal” meeting, Xi and Putin talked for no less than four and a half hours. At the end, Putin personally escorted Xi to his limo. This conversation was the real deal: mapping out the lineaments of multipolarity – which starts with a solution for Ukraine.
Predictably, there were very few leaks from the sherpas, but there was quite a significant one on their “in-depth exchange” on Ukraine. Putin politely stressed he respects China’s position – expressed in Beijing’s 12-point conflict resolution plan, which has been completely rejected by Washington. But the Russian position remains ironclad: demilitarization, Ukrainian neutrality, and enshrining the new facts on the ground.
In parallel, the Russian Foreign Ministry completely ruled out a role for the US, UK, France, and Germany in future Ukraine negotiations: they are not considered neutral mediators.
A multipolar patchwork quilt
The next day was all about business: everything from energy and “military-technical” cooperation to improving the efficacy of trade and economic corridors running through Eurasia.
Russia already ranks first as a natural gas supplier to China – surpassing Turkmenistan and Qatar – most of it via the 3,000 km Power of Siberia pipeline that runs from Siberia to China’s northeastern Heilongjiang province, launched in December 2019. Negotiations on the Power of Siberia II pipeline via Mongolia are advancing fast.
Sino-Russian cooperation in high-tech will go through the roof: 79 projects at over $165 billion. Everything from liquified natural gas (LNG) to aircraft construction, machine tool construction, space research, agro-industry, and upgraded economic corridors.
The Chinese president explicitly said he wants to link the New Silk Road projects to the Eurasia Economic Union (EAEU). This BRI-EAEU interpolation is a natural evolution. China has already signed an economic cooperation deal with the EAEU. Russian macroeconomic uber-strategist Sergey Glazyev’s ideaNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
If what Russia and China are offering other nations is real, I can see how it would be attractive to non-western nations.
Imagine being able to trade, nation to nation, without constant meddling in your internal affairs, politics, alliances, culture, etc. Or constantly being threatened with sanctions or regime change, or having seppuku demanded of you by the west in their never-ending quest for complete global control.
I know the Glaziyev is working on a common non-dollar trade currency. IMHO that won't happen until the various nations have had a decade or so of trading in their national currencies over non- SWIFT lines. But once a common currency happens, the AIIB bank will come into its own and displace the IMF.
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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If what Russia and China are offering other nations is real, I can see how it would be attractive to non-western nations.
Imagine being able to trade, nation to nation, without constant meddling in your internal affairs, politics, alliances, culture, etc. Or constantly being threatened with sanctions or regime change, or having seppuku demanded of you by the west in their never-ending quest for complete global control.
It's a nice idea, but it wouldn't happen. Not in a million years. The Russian and Chinese government are at least as dubious as ours is. If properly funded, they'd do at least as bad is ours did.
Quote:
I know the Glaziyev is working on a common non-dollar trade currency. IMHO that won't happen until the various nations have had a decade or so of trading in their national currencies over non- SWIFT lines. But once a common currency happens, the AIIB bank will come into its own and displace the IMF.
The Euro didn't work out. I don't see why this would.
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Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.
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I will assume this is a quote from zerohedge
SIGNYM you posted a zerohedge which some of our posters hate, not that I always disagree with zerohedge they sometimes make good points
I agree with 6IXSTRINGJACK, nobody will be nice in this world, Dragon's, Bears, Eagles whatever they have been symbols of predator creatures that eat others and maybe this symbol is there for a reason. British are Lions, Germany also an Eagle
Each one can suck another nation's resources and do damage, but maybe some actually can be laughed at....like France...what's that national symbol, a Chicken or a Hen?
I'm not sure if more countries will leave the EU after British but the EU will remained damaged and the United Kingdom might not be so united with Scotland in a strange pro-independent position ad wanting back in the EU. Russia and the USA have been political rivals before so in a ways this isn't a new thing.
Across North Africa, the Middle East Arabia and Afghanistan it is a mess and if Russia gets weaker or more distracted all those Ex-Soviet Stan places can start going insane, as 'Strong' as Russia always said it was it always had a huge territorial border and a weak underbelly. It has been a pity the relationship between the USA and Russia is so terrible and it has been long before Putin's stupid Ukraine invasion, after 911 there was a lot of good will with the USA but that will was wasted or lost.
The calmer relationship with North Korea 'rocket-man' is also long over, hit with sanctions Kim might go back to launching missiles and blowing off nukes to try bribe his way to get more money to shut up.
It could be possible that a lot of nations have tried stuff because they see Biden not strong or as old and therefore think the Joe Biden Kamala Harris Admin as lacking experience or weak, Trump's unpredictable nature might have kept people uncertain.
Maybe it was Russia's political expansionism, maybe it was the Bush invasion of Iraq maybe it was Putin killing journalists but for whatever reasons it continued getting worse. The economic center of gravity would not stay in the Atlantic between London and NewYork forever, it is moving back to where it has been for thousands of years past Rome and Greece and Egypt and along a silk road where most of the population of Earth has been for thousands of years with China, India, and all those other countries — which alone account for around most of the global population. Australia, Japan, Europe, Canada and the USA have sanctions on Russia's invasion but a lot of the world also has not joined the sanctions.
I don't see Brics as united but it is a different route and people can trade something else, forms of cyrpto and other bond currency does offer an alternative to the whole US Dollar, Euro, British pound Bretton Woods system of global finance management, the West might be weaker but they are still stronger than other groups. China is probably the big player it can compete with tech, military sats, manufacturing, energy and AI but it does not have the same ambition to rule Earth and set up bases as other Empires have done, they already have a Billion of their own so why take more people. Russia, India, China, South Africa, Brazil are not a true family, they probably more like a gathering of convenience because they want something different to the Anglo-American system. The USSR and Russia in past times were the big players but Putin has destroyed Russia's future by throwing men into a war of attrition, maybe neither Ukraine nor Russia will leave without generational misery and pain. India perhaps could have been friendly but for some reason they were seen on the wrong side in the Coldwar, the USA giving Pakistan weapons, the Hindu Patriot type probably also hold historical grudges against British. Balsonaro ruled he resisted Covid Lockdowns and Lula went to jail then all of a sudden Lula stages astonishing comeback to beat what media described as 'far-right' Bolsonaro then Balsonaro people went Trumpet like, th
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Actually it was posted here
https://thecradle.co/article-view/22818/in-moscow-xi-and-putin-bury-pa
x-americana
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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
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Thank you for your post. I don't understand great sweeping concepts, I tend to see things better with concrete examples and mechanistic explanations, so I'm going to have to go thru your post but by bit and maybe ask for details at times by. Sorry.
Quote:I mentally trash 90pct of ZH's content. As ivi often posted, make sure your shit filters are firmly in place before swimming there.
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
SIGNYM you posted a zerohedge which some of our posters hate, not that I always disagree with zerohedge they sometimes make good points.
You haven't hurt my feelings.Quote:Good point
I agree with 6IXSTRINGJACK, nobody will be nice in this world, Dragon's, Bears, Eagles whatever they have been symbols of predator creatures that eat others and maybe this symbol is there for a reason.
OTOH looking out for your SELF interest doesn't necessarily mean being hyper-aggressive, especially when facing a near-peer.
Quote:I see a lot of reasons for the EU to fracture. 1) USA-enforced deindustrialization leading to lower standard of living and falling Euro value 2) political and military disagreements over things like immigration and Russia
I'm not sure if more countries will leave the EU after British but the EU will remained damaged and the United Kingdom might not be so united with Scotland in a strange pro-independent position ad wanting back in the EU. Russia and the USA have been political rivals before so in a ways this isn't a new thing.
Quote:which don't include the Middle East, N Africa or Afghanistan. So i'm not clear which nations you're referring to
Across North Africa, the Middle East Arabia and Afghanistan it is a mess and if Russia gets weaker or more distracted all those Ex-Soviet Stan
Quote:I think the big change is that non-western nations now see Russia as a military peer to the USA and also a necessary commodity supplier, and China as a production superpower.
places can start going insane, as 'Strong' as Russia always said it was it always had a huge territorial border and a weak underbelly. It has been a pity the relationship between the USA and Russia is so terrible and it has been long before Putin's stupid Ukraine invasion, after 911 there was a lot of good will with the USA but that will was wasted or lost.
The calmer relationship with North Korea 'rocket-man' is also long over, hit with sanctions Kim might go back to launching missiles and blowing off nukes to try bribe his way to get more money to shut up.
It could be possible that a lot of nations have tried stuff because they see Biden not strong or as old and therefore think the Joe Biden Kamala Harris Admin as lacking experience or weak,
It's not just that Biden* is mentally feeble and Harris is inexperienced, it's that other nations have come into their own
Quote:It? America's global dominance? Influence? Reputation? All of the above?
Trump's unpredictable nature might have kept people uncertain.
Maybe it was Russia's political expansionism, maybe it was the Bush invasion of Iraq maybe it was Putin killing journalists but for whatever reasons it
Quote:True.
continued getting worse. The economic center of gravity would not stay in the Atlantic between London and NewYork forever, it is moving back to where it has been for thousands of years past Rome and Greece and Egypt and along a silk road where most of the population of Earth has been for thousands of years with China, India, and all those other countries — which alone account for around most of the global population. Australia, Japan, Europe, Canada and the USA have sanctions on Russia's invasion but a lot of the world also has not joined the sanctions.
Quote:
I don't see Brics as united but it is a different route and people can trade something else, forms of cyrpto and other bond currency does offer an alternative to the whole US Dollar, Euro, British pound Bretton Woods systeNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
At the end of the day, somebody is going to be in control of everything, and they don't care at all about any of us.
Personally, I'd rather have our corrupt government in control than any other corrupt government.
Unless it all fails and we end up living in Mad Max world, life really isn't that bad even with them in control. We're free enough to do most things we'd want to do.
It's kind of why I've been tuning out of the news as much as possible. I'm a lot happier when I'm not paying attention to it. It's designed to put you in a bad mood and make you fight with other people.
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Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.
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Quote:Isn't bad FOR WHO? Ask the people of pretty much every place else in the world besides the EU and the "five eyes". We've built a pretty big backlog of blowback and bad karma around the world, and I know they're all about the "multipolar world" but "they" might not be too picky about how they take us down, if they get the chance. Bc we weren't too picky about how we dealt with them.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
At the end of the day, somebody is going to be in control of everything, and they don't care at all about any of us.
Personally, I'd rather have our corrupt government in control than any other corrupt government.
Unless it all fails and we end up living in Mad Max world, life really isn't that bad even with them in control.
Quote:Our system for us. Their system for them. As long as we don't prey on them, kill them wantonly, try and control them etc. I'm sure they'd be happier if we followed that policy.
We're free enough to do most things we'd want to do.
It's kind of why I've been tuning out of the news as much as possible. I'm a lot happier when I'm not paying attention to it. It's designed to put you in a bad mood and make you fight with other people.
-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Isn't bad FOR WHO?
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
At the end of the day, somebody is going to be in control of everything, and they don't care at all about any of us.
Personally, I'd rather have our corrupt government in control than any other corrupt government.
Unless it all fails and we end up living in Mad Max world, life really isn't that bad even with them in control.
Isn't bad for you and I, as American citizens.
Quote:
Ask the people of pretty much every place else in the world besides the EU and the "five eyes". We've built a pretty big backlog of blowback and bad karma around the world, and I know they're all about the "multipolar world" but "they" might not be too picky about how they take us down, if they get the chance. Bc we weren't too picky about how we dealt with them.
I know this, and that's my point. I feel bad for them, but there's nothing I can do about it. And I'm not going to go around virtue signalling and pretending that I'm some hero by doing dumb shit like posting "AMERICA SUPPORTS UKRAINE" and putting a bumper sticker on my car to "raise awareness".
Is America going to be retaliated against in my lifetime for things it has done? Possibly. I guess I'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
Quote:Our system for us. Their system for them. As long as we don't prey on them, kill them wantonly, try and control them etc. I'm sure they'd be happier if we followed that policy.
We're free enough to do most things we'd want to do.
It's kind of why I've been tuning out of the news as much as possible. I'm a lot happier when I'm not paying attention to it. It's designed to put you in a bad mood and make you fight with other people.
I'm sure they would.
What am I supposed to do about it?
We finally voted in a guy who was trying to de-tangle the US from all the two-way foreign entanglements and the entire Media Apparatus and the Uniparty came at him every day for over 6 years now.
I'm done losing sleep over things that I have zero influence over and that don't ruin my life. I'm 44 years old in the summer and most of the men in both sides of my family were dead by their mid 50s.
And besides, if we're not the ones doing it, somebody else will gladly fill that void.
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Growing up in a Republic was nice... Shame we couldn't keep it.
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