The Real Immigrants
POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Sunday, August 30, 2026 16:36
VIEWED: 8544
PAGE 2 of 4
Care to try addressing the facts, again?
Or do you shoot nothing but blanks?
Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.
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Oh jeez, my prejudice was showing........gotta fix that!
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
White guilt much, snowflake?Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Contrary to popular belief, the first Americans were not white.
Nobody believes that the first Americans were white. Not one single person.
Only SJW college professors and those they brainwash believe that anybody else actually believes that.
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True that Brenda, the article was an interesting read. Unfortunately the discussion quickly devolved into a racial issue, which was not the intent of this posting. But there are those that take a moment of fascinating discovery about the history of this country and sling mud to detract and demean.
Popular belief and scholarly facts are generally diametrically opposed. But I guess you understand that more than most, because you smartly steer clear of any of the sophomoric discussions that dominate this site within the RWED. There are those, even so-called college educated people, that do not know everything. I sat in a class where a young woman stood in shock and disbelief when the professor pointed out how multinational corporations (mostly American based companies) would economically "rape" their host nation to the detriment of the people of that country. All in the name of more profits.
But I digress. The article was indeed good and raised an important question for the entire country to consider: How beautifully rich and varied is our nation? And how much more so with the people that contribute to it.
I'm glad you got something from it.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Attached find a story about the Native Americans who once numbered more than 20,000 in a village known as Etzanoa...
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/its-location-a-mystery-for-centuries-
huge-indian-city-is-found-in-kansas/ar-BBAdr7v?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
Makes you think about who the real immigrants are in this country. There were tribes known as Kanza, Wichita, Pawnee, Kiowa, Cheyenne and Apache. They roamed the middle of the country and developed cities in the tens of thousands.
Anyway, I think it's something that everyone is aware of, but may refuse to accept reality. Contrary to popular belief, the first Americans were not white. They were natives of color and they were here long before the Vikings and Columbus ever set foot on this land. The discovery of this town of natives in Kansas (Kansa people or people of the south wind) is considered a major discovery and part of the rich history of the native people who thrived here long ago.
SGG
Took time to really read the article and it is very good and interesting. Many tribes were ravished by disease. The biggest killer being small pox.
The tribes that bordered Mexico were the first to get horses. They stole them from the Spaniards. Apache were well known for raiding into Mexico.
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Brenda,
I am a little fuzzy on your geography, and how it relates to your references to Native Americans, or First nation peoples.
I would assume that most of the archeological record shows human inhabitants from about 14,000 years ago to now, as well as more than 30,000 years ago and prior. But showing humans very near the Great Lakes (or Hudson Bay) from about 15,000 to 30,000 yeas ago would surprise me.
How far are the human remains you mention, distance from the Great Lakes?
I also assume the same for the rest of North America - proximity to the Great Lakes would surprise me with much population before 14,000 years ago.
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Brenda, I commend you for your erudite response, it's refreshing!
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Brenda,
I am a little fuzzy on your geography, and how it relates to your references to Native Americans, or First nation peoples.
I would assume that most of the archeological record shows human inhabitants from about 14,000 years ago to now, as well as more than 30,000 years ago and prior. But showing humans very near the Great Lakes (or Hudson Bay) from about 15,000 to 30,000 yeas ago would surprise me.
How far are the human remains you mention, distance from the Great Lakes?
I also assume the same for the rest of North America - proximity to the Great Lakes would surprise me with much population before 14,000 years ago.
JSF,
I am in British Columbia. My interest n archaeology and study of the subject began BEFORE I found out my family was part American Indian. Then I switched my interest to this continent. So, I have a fair bit of knowledge at my disposal on the subject. When you study archaeology in Canada you learn about First Nations as the Native Canadians refer to themselves now. But I learned about American Indians first because that is where my family's blood comes from.
The oldest site that I know of comes in with Radio Carbon dating at 30,000years and that is in South America. It is known now that there was no ice free corridor and so the peoples who came to North America walked over the land bridge then walked down the coast line of what is now British Columbia. The northern half of this continent was covered in ice. Because of the ice there was no ocean. The seabed and the coast line were on the same level. The land was depressed because of the ice. People were inhabiting the interior of the continent at around 20,000 yrs.
This part of the world was peopled from South America up. Various groups came in at various times and moved across the land as the ice retreated. The last group to come into North America were the Inuit.
People would have moved into the area of the Great Lakes as the ice retreated.
Historical records and archaeological finds show us that the people who became known as the Iroquois Confederacy built towns in what is now the Province of Quebec.
And surely you know your history about what small pox did to the tribes that came into contact with the disease? Europeans had bene exposed to that contagion for generations and had some immunity to it. We didn't. It destroyed villages.
And yes horses were taken from more than just the Spaniards as were guns.
The peoples I mentioned are now in Alaska, Washington State, BC. Mine are split onto reservations in Wyoming, Nevada and Idaho. The other peoples I mentioned are in the mid-states and into Texas, I think.
These peoples still exist to this day. Like the Cheyenne, and the Dakota.
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Hey Brenda,
Quote:
I noticed.
I thought you would.
Quote:
...And I don't have the patience at times for trying to get a point across.
It's a lesson that I need to learn. Unfortunately, I'm too stubborn at times not to try and get my point across, when it would be wiser to let it go. But I'm working on it.
Quote:
The US and Canada are widely diverse countries even among the First Nations peoples here. The Iroquois Confederacy in Eastern Canada built towns that were protected by walls.
It is always a good thing to learn, and to learn something new.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
True that Brenda, the article was an interesting read. Unfortunately the discussion quickly devolved into a racial issue, which was not the intent of this posting. But there are those that take a moment of fascinating discovery about the history of this country and sling mud to detract and demean.
Popular belief and scholarly facts are generally diametrically opposed. But I guess you understand that more than most, because you smartly steer clear of any of the sophomoric discussions that dominate this site within the RWED. There are those, even so-called college educated people, that do not know everything. I sat in a class where a young woman stood in shock and disbelief when the professor pointed out how multinational corporations (mostly American based companies) would economically "rape" their host nation to the detriment of the people of that country. All in the name of more profits.
But I digress. The article was indeed good and raised an important question for the entire country to consider: How beautifully rich and varied is our nation? And how much more so with the people that contribute to it.
I'm glad you got something from it.
SGGQuote:
Originally posted by Brenda:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Attached find a story about the Native Americans who once numbered more than 20,000 in a village known as Etzanoa...
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/its-location-a-mystery-for-centuries-
huge-indian-city-is-found-in-kansas/ar-BBAdr7v?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
Makes you think about who the real immigrants are in this country. There were tribes known as Kanza, Wichita, Pawnee, Kiowa, Cheyenne and Apache. They roamed the middle of the country and developed cities in the tens of thousands.
Anyway, I think it's something that everyone is aware of, but may refuse to accept reality. Contrary to popular belief, the first Americans were not white. They were natives of color and they were here long before the Vikings and Columbus ever set foot on this land. The discovery of this town of natives in Kansas (Kansa people or people of the south wind) is considered a major discovery and part of the rich history of the native people who thrived here long ago.
SGG
Took time to really read the article and it is very good and interesting. Many tribes were ravished by disease. The biggest killer being small pox.
The tribes that bordered Mexico were the first to get horses. They stole them from the Spaniards. Apache were well known for raiding into Mexico.
I noticed.
Well, I am also kind of out of the loop news wise as to what is what in the US and the world. And I don't have the patience at times for trying to get a point across.
The US and Canada are widely diverse countries even among the First Nations peoples here. The Iroquois Confederacy in Eastern Canada built towns that were protected by walls.
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I'm pretty sure at this point they wouldn't exist if the people who lived in them didn't want to live in them anymore. It's not as if they're concentration camps. They're actually sovereign states of their own that can make laws outside of US law. That's why the casinos were only on reservations for many years, and that's where the UFC got its start and to this day there are quite a few cage fights that don't fall under UFC law.
Brenda can correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody has to stay there if they don't want to.
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This is what I'm saying. To think that in 2017 we are still talking about "reservations" like we are still living in the past. Horse soldiers and the like. Wow, it blows my mind.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I'm pretty sure at this point they wouldn't exist if the people who lived in them didn't want to live in them anymore. It's not as if they're concentration camps. They're actually sovereign states of their own that can make laws outside of US law. That's why the casinos were only on reservations for many years, and that's where the UFC got its start and to this day there are quite a few cage fights that don't fall under UFC law.
Brenda can correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody has to stay there if they don't want to.
No, Jack. People don't have to stay on them any more. But sometimes leaving and trying to "assimilate" into the larger society is still hard. And God do I hate that word. So when they have problems they go back to the reservation.
Sometimes I feel that we still aren't wanted in our own land.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
This is what I'm saying. To think that in 2017 we are still talking about "reservations" like we are still living in the past. Horse soldiers and the like. Wow, it blows my mind.
SGGQuote:
Originally posted by Brenda:Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I'm pretty sure at this point they wouldn't exist if the people who lived in them didn't want to live in them anymore. It's not as if they're concentration camps. They're actually sovereign states of their own that can make laws outside of US law. That's why the casinos were only on reservations for many years, and that's where the UFC got its start and to this day there are quite a few cage fights that don't fall under UFC law.
Brenda can correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody has to stay there if they don't want to.
No, Jack. People don't have to stay on them any more. But sometimes leaving and trying to "assimilate" into the larger society is still hard. And God do I hate that word. So when they have problems they go back to the reservation.
Sometimes I feel that we still aren't wanted in our own land.
I can agree with that SGG. But not being part of the culture it's hard to say why that word would still be a thing.
Brenda says that they don't have to stay on them "anymore", which means that they were indeed forced to stay on them at some point, which is the real shame.
The idea that they tend to stay there now I think speaks to our natural tenancy to group ourselves with like-minded people and also things that are familiar to us. I'm not saying that they have it good, but I am saying that part of me envies what they do have now. I'm a european mutt. I don't have any "roots" or any "reservation" to go back to if I fail to assimilate with the culture, which I struggle with all the time.
I think it's a large reason why buying a home and having no debt was so important to me. I've got my lonely little castle now where I'm not beholden to anybody. What's missing is the sense of community and belonging that Brenda probably feels.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
Jack, all nations were driven onto the reservations by horse soldiers at the order of the American government. Late 1800s. Then the horse soldiers made sure that we stayed on them. Then if any group "jumped the reservation", think Geronimo, the "horse soldiers" or by then the US army was sent after them to bring them back.
Yeah... I'm a little fuzzy on my American History. I don't believe half of what I was taught since it changes all the time anyway, but the other half I don't know if I "learned" it in a book or I saw it on a cartoon or something. My Step-Dad is Mexican and the Three Amigos is one of his favorite movies. We got a good laugh when I told him that I thought everybody in Mexico was like in that movie.
You live it though. If you're saying it went down that way I believe it.
Quote:
Also the reservations became a place to practice our cultures and reclaim them. Languages have been found again and family ties refound after the residential school system went down.
That's pretty cool, I think. I don't have anything like that. My parents were already mixed and I'm even more so. I don't have any ties to any history. I guess "white" is as good a name for it as anything else.
Quote:
Sometimes I do Jack and sometimes I don't. I have pure blood friends and Metis friends and with them, I feel welcomed because we share similar stories. Close white friends from school I'm okay with but other whites, I don't. When I explain to them why they are wrong when they say certain things about the history in Canada...they don't understand.
When I was growing up and in public school, it was 95% white or more. We felt no "love" for each other, and outside your "clique" it was every man for himself. I remember in Jr. High there was a lot of Muslims all of the sudden in our classrooms and I envied how they stuck together. None of us white kids had each others backs outside of whatever friends we had, but nobody messed with the Muslim kids because if one of them had it out for you they all did.
I dunno. I guess at the end of the day is what I'm saying is that I don't like being thought of as "White". It was never a club I was very popular in for most of my adolescent life, and not something I like being globed into now when it's always with such negative connotations. I don't feel any guilt or shame for being white for whatever my "people" did in the past, or what any of them do now either.
Outside of rich old white dudes and "good 'ole boys" down south that still fly the Confederate flag for all the wrong reasons, I don't think there are any "white clubs". Just a bunch of people struggling to get by like everybody else.
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