70 Years Since Hiroshima
POSTED BY: Magonsdaughter
UPDATED: Saturday, August 8, 2026 10:26
VIEWED: 23968
PAGE 7 of 16
And you (of all people) calling something propaganda doesn't make it so. The claims, from the film, in order:
Germany was subject to carpet bombing (saturation bombing, terror bombing).
The Churchill plan, [as described to the House of Commons on June 2, 1942] "German cities will be subject to an ordeal the like of which has never been experience by a country in continuity, severity, and magnitude ... to achieve this end there are no lengths of violence to which we will not go".
http://theahi.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Ford-Morality-of-Oblitera
tion-Bombing.pdf
[archival [pictures of dead civilians on the streets, many of them stripped of clothing by the explosive force, riddled with holes by shrapnel or lying in pools of blood]
Cities bombed: Hamburg, Berlin, Nuremberg, Darmstadt, Cologne, Stuttgart, Wurzburg ...
"After bombing a city, the air forces quickly returned, hoping to catch rescuers in the open"
[film of a city burning intensely at night, and anti-aircraft smoke puffs in the sky, with phosphorous ignition to help targeting]
"Thousands of small fires would join to create a vortex of flame"
[film of building burning intensely, over the sound of flames a man can be heard screaming hysterically]
Rescuers rushed to free those trapped underground
[photos of obliterated cities, parts still smoking]
"When rescuers finally broke through to underground bunkers, they often found scenes of unimaginable horror. In some shelters, broken water mains had slowly drowned the occupants. Ruptured steam pipes had boiled alive other screaming victims."
[stills and films of exploded or burned out basements]
"Some bunkers contained only dozens of log-like shapes, charred and shriveled to only a quarter of their original size"
[stills of bodies, mostly charred, with occasional pieces of clothing remaining]
"In still other cellars, only a powdery gray ash remained"
[more stills of street-level victims, in cars, on balconies]
"Rescuers who entered some bunkers found floors covered up to a foot of greasy fat. The victims had been rendered down to a dark liquid."
[still of charred bodies in a liquid]
"When word fist filtered to the outside world..."
[stills of newspaper headlines of the day, "Allies order terror bombing", "Allies to step up terror bombing"]
I hope you get the point. Everything is either actual archival footage or direct quote. Nothing inaccurate. Your problem with it isn't that it's inaccurate, it just that it paints a picture that you don't like.
So you plug your ears and go "Nyah nyah nyah, I can't hear you".
What are you, a child? A coward?
--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Killing Japs didn't bother me very much at that time. I suppose if I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal. Every soldier thinks something of the moral aspects of what he is doing. But all war is immoral and if you let that bother you, you're not a good soldier.
General Curtis LeMay on the morality of his firebombing campaign www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/bomb/peopleevents/pandeAMEX61.html
That the Nazis and the Japs would've tried Allied leaders for war crimes in revenge for bombing their cities goes without saying. I don't think we should judge the morality of the acts by what would have been the verdict of Nazi and Imperial Japanese courts though.
There's an interesting idea here - and this general touches upon it - about the morality of war. That any action that kills large numbers of civilians is seen as automatically immoral (even if it helps win the war against an enemy as evil as the Axis powers, and thereby saves Allied servicemen's lives). But when it comes to killing hundreds of thousands or even millions of enemy soldiers, young men whose only crime is being brainwashed by their repressive governments into thinking that they are fighting a just war in defence of their homeland - that is seen as perfectly OK.
I can understand the need for international criminal courts to see this as black and white, but I don't think WE should think of this as a black and white issue. For me the loss of an 18 year old German farmboy conscript can be just as sad and tragic as the loss of a 50 year old German civilian. It can in fact be much more tragic - maybe the 18 year old German farmboy was peace-loving, never hurt anybody in his life, and never wanted to go to war, while the 50 year old civilian was an enthusiastic Nazi party member, and cheerleader for war, who helped round up the local Jews for the Gestapo. Yet by conventional reckoning killing the Nazi civilian is a moral crime, while killing the farmboy soldier is perfectly fine.
It's not personal. It's just war.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Sig, here's an idea. Why don't you put forward some evidence that ISN'T neo-Nazi propaganda, and we'll work from there?
It's not personal. It's just war.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
You insist on calling facts - archival filmography, direct quotes, historically documented lists of cities bombed - propaganda.
I have an idea. Why don't you address the facts, instead of clinging to your delusions?
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Let's make it black and white for you. General Curtis LeMay had a plan in 1949 to kill Russia with a sneak attack. This plan was made before Russia had even tested an A-bomb. I'm hopeful that you will sense why LeMay was not given permission to destroy Russia, but you might disappoint me.
Originally posted by kpo:
There's an interesting idea here - and this general touches upon it - about the morality of war. That any action that kills large numbers of civilians is seen as automatically immoral (even if it helps win the war against an enemy as evil as the Axis powers, and thereby saves Allied servicemen's lives). But when it comes to killing hundreds of thousands or even millions of enemy soldiers, young men whose only crime is being brainwashed by their repressive governments into thinking that they are fighting a just war in defense of their homeland - that is seen as perfectly OK.
I can understand the need for international criminal courts to see this as black and white, but I don't think WE should think of this as a black and white issue. . . .
LeMay delivered the first SAC Emergency War Plan in March 1949 which called for dropping 133 atomic bombs on 70 cities in the USSR within 30 days. Air power strategists called this type of preemptive strike, "killing a nation." However, the Harmon committee released their unanimous report two months later stating such an attack would not end a war with the Soviets and their industry would quickly recover. This committee had been specifically created by the Joint Chiefs of Staff to study the effects of a massive nuclear strike against the Soviet Union. Nevertheless, within weeks, an ad hoc Joint Chiefs committee recommended tripling America's nuclear arsenal, and Chief of Staff Vandenberg called for enough bombs to attack 220 targets, up from the previous 70.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_LeMay#Strategic_Air_Command
Try to keep in mind that General LeMay already had enough bombs, planes and crews to kill Russians by the millions. Also important to keep in mind, America is not at war with Russia. It is a sneak attack that could've happened in May 1949, except the Joint Chiefs told LeMay "NO! YOU IMMORAL BASTARD! WE NEED MORE A-BOMBS BEFORE A SNEAK ATTACK ON RUSSIA SO THAT IT IS A CLEAN AND COMPLETE KILL FROM WHICH THERE WILL BE NO POSSIBLE RETALIATION AGAINST AMERICA OR ITS ALLIES" or words to that affect.
LeMay was willing and able to do what he had not been allowed to do in Japan. He was going to destroy a nation. It would be a sneak attack a million times bigger than Pearl Harbor, 'A Date Which Will Live in Infamy'.
General Curtis LeMay is General Jack D. Ripper in Dr Strangelove (1964) http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/DrStrangelove
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
You insist on calling facts - archival filmography, direct quotes, historically documented lists of cities bombed - propaganda.
I will post the video again. Watch 2 minutes starting at 1:45, and then tell me that it's not propaganda, and that you're completely happy with it as a source.
It's not personal. It's just war.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Not only do you not discuss Signy's actual post - you substitute an entirely different video.
Now THAT'S a strawman! KUDOS! Goebbels would be proud!
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
A different video from the same website, and made by the same people, yes.
So kiki, you're happy with a neo-Nazi website as a source?
It's not personal. It's just war.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I examine content to see if it's factual. That's the only thing that counts.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME