Victorian Female Batman???

POSTED BY: Wishimay
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 28, 2024 16:00
VIEWED: 9936
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THGRRI

Monday, July 13, 2015 7:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Wait, you don't wanna watch what Joss puts out because he doesn't specifically pander to the male ego?? Don't we have enough testosterone laden violent nonsense?

He may have a girl fetish, but he does guys well enough, too. Mal and Angel are great characters who actually try to think instead of mindlessly blowing shit up. Maybe he realizes, like a lot of us girls do- that female heroes and villains are usually a joke and that he could do it better.

Yes, he appeals to you and you are a women. His work does not appeal to me and I am a man. I don't mind strong female leads but with Joss it is all he knows, all he cares about. He has a fetish. He likes to dress up women and while there is a market for some of that, it does not sell to many.

If Joss is so against stereotyping women and objectifying them, why does he sexualize them just like all the rest in his movies. Remember, Inara was a whore and Kylee was very promiscuous,remember Saffron? Don't forget the episode that was going to have Inara rapped by the entire reefer crew and that is what the needle was for that she carried. If that happened they would all die. The guy is very dark and who knows what. He has many bamboozled as to what he is about and I think when a female actor has nothing to lose, she will have something to say about how evolved Joss is in female character development and looks.

WISHIMAY

Monday, July 13, 2015 9:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

If Joss is so against stereotyping women and objectifying them, why does he sexualize them just like all the rest in his movies. Remember, Inara was a whore and Kylee was very promiscuous,remember Saffron?

So you think a women can't be a strong character and be sexual? She has to be a Monk?? The great thing about Inara is that she didn't let anyone define who she was by what she did. Mal only called her a whore out of jealousy and he knew she was strong enough to take it and give it back. I personally believe prostitution should be legal, so you're fighting the wrong battle with the wrong person. Her being a companion isn't anything I look down on. And I guess Inara was just supposed to let the Reavers come, hmm? Instead, she formulated a plan to fight back even if she were incapacitated. She was NOT a victim. She chose her profession. Unfortunately, sexy looking women who don't have sex don't sell well in Hollyweird. That is hardly Joss's fault.

Ps. Jayne would've done anything that would've let it near enough, I don't hear you guys complaining about him being "oversexualized" in grotesque manner. Why's it matter what a woman humps so damn much???

AURAPTOR

Monday, July 13, 2015 9:29 AM

I dig Joss and his grrl power stuff. I really do. River, Buffy, Faith... Hell, all the Slayers, and more.

But we get it. Message received. Why keep hitting us over the head w/ it ?

WISHIMAY

Monday, July 13, 2015 11:33 AM

I'm not getting the problem here. It seems to me like you all think the white male ego is supposed to be the driving story force all the time? Or that somehow women should take "what they can get" and then go back to being ignored?

So there is ONE male director who's for girl power, there's thirty-nine dozen more that aren't. Female superheroes and villains are still underrepresented by far. The fact that someone was out there crying over a Zoe character should tell you all that female characters are crapped on all the time. The real interest in Zoe and Wash wasn't even remotely the black/white aspect, it was that a black woman could be as strong and respectable as the white male lead.

ECGORDON

Monday, July 13, 2015 7:51 PM

Wishy, I think you're fighting a losing battle, and so is Joss. He can't seem to win either way, getting blasted by the guys for having too many strong women, then blasted by a fringe of the feminists when he has Natasha get romantic with a guy. Yes, Joss writes some strong female characters, but he does not scrimp on the males either:

Rupert Giles
Angel
Charles Gunn
Malcolm Reynolds
Derrial Book
Victor (Dollhouse)
Johner (Alien Resurrection)

Xander and Wash are the goofy sidekicks although they did show their heroic side every once in a while. I won't include Jayne Cobb on that list because I feel he is a parody of the macho male, not someone Joss considered a hero, although that might have changed if the story had continued. Maybe Wesley Wyndam-Price, at least where the character ended up, even though he began as a buffoon.

I think it was Joss' writing that made the first Avengers so good, the way he handled many different strong male characters and two females, Natasha and Maria Hill. Tom Hiddleston is a great actor, but Joss is the one who wrote the words that Loki spoke, making even a clearly evil man someone you could sympathize with.

Joss likes strong women characters. So what? So do I. But most of all he and I like well-written, well-rounded characters, that act the way I would like to think I would if given the chance. No, I'm not the heroic type, but I can dream can't I? It's okay if you don't like everything Joss does, I'm sure he won't lose any sleep over it.

THGRRI

Monday, July 13, 2015 9:07 PM

I like Joss too but:

The one female Joss portrayed the way women wish to be portrayed was Zoe. She was strong and when it came to her sexuality, anything but lose. Joss could have just as easily made Kaylee a great mechanic who was not sexually promiscuous, and found a different reason for Inara to be onboard other than her being a prostitute. He also chose to make a hot female River a victim, not Simons younger brother. There were four women on the Firefly set and all were knockouts. Saffron, another hot women and someone who had been professionally trained to exploit her sexuality against men, showed up almost immediately in the series with a reoccurring role. What about Heart of Gold a whore house, yet it is not him who is exploiting women but the male character in the episode he created. All this sex and sexual innuendo in just a few episodes. Joss sells his product at the expense of women’s sexuality just like all the rest.

I believe his portraying women as strong is a consequence of his need to fill his set with women and nothing more. Why else would he constantly feel the need to point out that he does not objectify women? Have you ever heard the saying, Thou protest a bit too loudly? Why did the guys jokingly call Scarlet Johansson’s character in the avengers a whore during an interview, if it was not somehow suggested in the development of her role? Why did they all grin and look down sheepishly as though saying, I ain’t touching this, when Scarlet was asked in an interview about Joss’s involvement in developing her character in the movie.

No sorry, I don’t see Joss the way you do. I don’t mean to imply he is a bad person. Only that he use’s women more than most to sell his product and tries to suggest he is doing something entirely different. Hot women sell and it’s the oldest form of exploitation in adverting. Joss takes advantage of this and is second to none when it comes to exploiting women. With Joss a womens' sexuality is always lurking just beneath the surface or right out front for all to see.

This is based of course on what I have watched that Joss has created. Much of what he does is unappealing to my viewing tastes. That said, I love Firefly.

ZEEK

Monday, July 13, 2015 10:38 PM

I think you're missing the point. A female character enjoying sex is not belittling them. In the real world there are women who enjoy having sex. It doesn't make them weak or bad people. The point was that Joss was writing the characters to be open about who they are. They aren't ashamed of their own desires. They're comfortable in their own skin. If the audience is uncomfortable with that then it reflects more on them than on the characters or writing IMO.

Anyway as for the topic of the comic book it simply doesn't interest me. Male or female, I'm not interested in a victorian era batman character.

THGRRI

Tuesday, July 14, 2015 12:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I think you're missing the point. A female character enjoying sex is not belittling them. In the real world there are women who enjoy having sex. It doesn't make them weak or bad people. The point was that Joss was writing the characters to be open about who they are. They aren't ashamed of their own desires. They're comfortable in their own skin. If the audience is uncomfortable with that then it reflects more on them than on the characters or writing IMO.

Anyway as for the topic of the comic book it simply doesn't interest me. Male or female, I'm not interested in a victorian era batman character.

I am not missing the point.

Exploitation is exploitation. Just because you cast a women as a lead or strong, does not mean you do not objectify women the same way others do. Saying you are not exploiting women or you’re somehow different because your female whore is strong, and the other guys’ female whore is week, is juvenile. I get what you are saying. I just disagree as to why he portrays women in the same roles as men in his work. Joss comes from a comic book world. He creates his women as comic book figures. Strong but very sexual and in tights.

His denial pertaining to how he portrays women is the same as Inara's. It is implied she is strong yet we see what being a prostitute has done to her. Remember her response to Mal sleeping with her friend? Not so strong after all. She cannot face the reality that sleeping with different men, (many, many men), makes her no different than the women she calls whores herself. Why, because they are not registered with the guild; so she runs. It is the same with Joss. Objectifying women while casting them as leads or not is the same as objectifying women cast in lesser roles.

As I said in a previous post. I think it is a fetish. Women have to be front and center in all he does and he rebukes all who do not follow suit. It would not surprise me to learn his first sexual experience was with a female in tights residing on the cover of a comic book.

Remember, he is a self-described girlie man who rejects the male role in society and has said so. It is not as though he wishes to lift women up to equal status with men, but instead that he prefers them. There is a difference. I have a suspicion that if he thought he could sell it, Zoe would have been the captain of Serenity. And why he is now contemplating a female Batman. Not a female Batwoman, but a female Batman.

“Joss Whedon's next project is a comic series about a 'Victorian female Batman'”

As I scratch my head over that one?

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, July 14, 2015 2:25 AM

Quote:

I am not missing the point.

Exploitation is exploitation. Just because you cast a women as a lead or strong, does not mean you do not objectify women the same way others do. Saying you are not exploiting women or you’re somehow different because your female whore is strong, and the other guys’ female whore is week, is juvenile. I get what you are saying. I just disagree as to why he portrays women in the same roles as men in his work. Joss comes from a comic book world. He creates his women as comic book figures. Strong but very sexual and in tights.

A woman enjoying sex makes her a whore ?

Wow. I was accused of saying nothing even that bad, and still was cast as the worst person in the world.

I got news for ya THGRRI, human sex drive can be a powerful thing. Men or women.

THGRRI

Tuesday, July 14, 2015 4:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

I am not missing the point.

Exploitation is exploitation. Just because you cast a women as a lead or strong, does not mean you do not objectify women the same way others do. Saying you are not exploiting women or you’re somehow different because your female whore is strong, and the other guys’ female whore is week, is juvenile. I get what you are saying. I just disagree as to why he portrays women in the same roles as men in his work. Joss comes from a comic book world. He creates his women as comic book figures. Strong but very sexual and in tights.

A woman enjoying sex makes her a whore ?

Wow. I was accused of saying nothing even that bad, and still was cast as the worst person in the world.

I got news for ya THGRRI, human sex drive can be a powerful thing. Men or women.

As always you haven't read the entire post or my other posts that puts that paragraph into it's proper context.

I am not calling women whores and have said nothing about sex drives.

Holy shit Rappy buy a brain.

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