In the garden, and RAIN!!!!
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Thursday, December 25, 2025 04:27
VIEWED: 1005090
PAGE 108 of 1154
Quote:YAY!!
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
For a treat today I bought $12 in scratch lottery tickets and won about $17.
And, I missed the post way back when where you fell. I hope you're OK.
The winning was good. :)
The fall happened after my idiot landlady was down again blaming me for the problems they are having upstairs. I've almost tripped over the object before and last night just wasn't a good evening. But on the flip side I am okay. Right hand feels a little stiff but it works and no major bruising on my knees. So, yeah I am okay Kiki.
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New comic and collectable shop has opened in a local mall. Going to get a couple of back issues of Wolverine and maybe one or two of Gambit and X-Men for a Christmas to me. 
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6ix,
1. You had not specified the location of your 1st floor return, until now. I think a box fan should work fine, at least until you have a better understanding of how much heat capacity your furnace has, which you really don't know right now. First, support the weight of the fan - if you cannot put ceiling hooks in, and then hang the fan from them, then any cheap support like a $5 bookcase or other tall furniture can be used to rest the fan weight upon it. After supporting the weight, use wire ties or simple twist ties to mate the fan grille to the return grate. Put that fan on high speed.
2. I assumed you could find cheap mini-fans, which would push the warm air down at least more than the few inches it does now.
I'm sure there are fans made for this. I might try a regular ceiling exhaust/ventilation fan, like for the bathroom, but reversing the motor polarity. But my bathroom fan was about $100, and I'm not going to tell you to do that until you see just how well all of this works. Do you have any spare PC fans laying around - the AC versions?
Embrace the ghetto for the moment, staying cheap. Until you fully understand what does work, and what does not. Then pretty up the factors that you think had the best impact, as time and money allow. I am not imagining you spending a pile of cash on all this.
When you measure the temp on the outer surface of the attic ducting, both at the output of the furnace and at the departure point going into the attic floor, you will know the temperature drop across this span of ductwork. This temp drop really should be 5 degrees or less, but I suspect yours is like 30-50 degrees.
Furnace efficiency. Imagine a furnace sucking in 50-60 degree air, firing on full burn to heat that air up to about 100 degrees on the way out to heating vents. That is efficient, adding 40-50 degrees of heat. Now imagine the same furnace sucking in 80 degree air, heating up to 100-110 degrees. All that burning energy, used up on air that is already warm. There isn't enough temp differential available for the furnace to be as efficient as it would be with cooler air.
So our prime goal here is to add a series of booster fans on 1st floor to improve the flow of air through the furnace blower, as well as through the ductwork and then through the rooms which receive heat.
Maybe the best way to think of this is "for troubleshooting purposes only" so that you only end up throwing money at the things you understand are worth it. If absolutely nothing changes (which I doubt, they work great in my houses), then you didn't waste anything.
So, what is the actual temperature coming out of the heating vents?
And remember to shop at Restore for the used equipment.
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Hit the wrong button. "laugh:
Cold and most likely wet here today. Good thing I am staying in.
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I had my mind on this when I was talking to my folks on the phone the other night, and I remembered that I had a cheapo non-digital thermometer in the basement by the crawl space. It was laying on the cold tile floor and it was right around 55 or 56 degrees.
I took it upstairs to the first floor, about 2-3 feet under the 1st floor return and let it sit for a few minutes and was pretty happy to see that it was reading about 67 degrees, which is only 1 degree less than I have the thermostat on the 2nd floor set to. (Good news, although it has been quite "warm" the last 5 or so days around here, reaching highs in the 40's and lows only in the high 20's, and it hasn't been really windy).
The temp reaches between 71 and 72 in the bathroom and the hallway on the 2nd floor before the heat stops. This means that, at least when it's this warm, the differential between the 2nd floor where the thermostat is and the cold tile floors in the basement is only around 15 degrees at most.
This is also good news, but I know that this differential only grows the colder and windier it gets outside.
It should be noted, however, that at 68 degrees the thermostat is now set 5 degrees higher than I've ever had it set to since I've owned the house. I'm not sure how this alone is going to change my experience this year compared to previous years. I should be getting my first bill with the temp up this high sometime late this week.
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
6ix,
1. You had not specified the location of your 1st floor return, until now. I think a box fan should work fine, at least until you have a better understanding of how much heat capacity your furnace has, which you really don't know right now. First, support the weight of the fan - if you cannot put ceiling hooks in, and then hang the fan from them, then any cheap support like a $5 bookcase or other tall furniture can be used to rest the fan weight upon it. After supporting the weight, use wire ties or simple twist ties to mate the fan grille to the return grate. Put that fan on high speed.
I haven't remodeled the living room yet since it was the nicest looking room in the house when I bought it and would only really require a paint job unless I don't end up being lazy and put the extreme effort of adding new conduit through the wall and ceiling to put a junction box for a ceiling fan in there (I have no idea why these old houses so often didn't have any outlets on the ceiling in huge rooms like this)
I still really don't want to be putting hooks up there though. I do have a unique looking little curio/shelving unit that is close to it. I could take all of the stuff off the top shelf and move it underneath the return. I might have to build it up about a half a foot with books or something. Good idea.
Any ideas how I could rig something up so it is somewhat "sealed" and isn't just pushing air around the outside of the hole and a majority of the work it's doing would be going into the return?
Quote:
3. I assumed you could find cheap mini-fans, which would push the warm air down at least more than the few inches it does now.
I'm sure there are fans made for this. I might try a regular ceiling exhaust/ventilation fan, like for the bathroom, but reversing the motor polarity. But my bathroom fan was about $100, and I'm not going to tell you to do that until you see just how well all of this works. Do you have any spare PC fans laying around - the AC versions?
Yeah... I'm not going to put 300 bucks into fans for the first floor, even if I find out this ends up working great. :)
I'll have to do a little research and see if I can find something better.
I might have a spare PC fan or two lying around, but I don't believe I have 3 of them right now. Come to think of it though, I do have a 2nd desktop computer that crapped out on me a few years back. I bet there are some in there I could clean up for the task. D
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6ix,
I didn't realize your blower fan was known to be wonky. I had understood that it was not functioning adequately by your list of symptoms, but didn't know it has never been set correctly to function correctly.
Fixing that should fix most of the problems you have. Skip the rest until you get that going.
What is yours currently set at? The settings/pointers/needles should have one in a lower range of numbers, and the other in a higher range of numbers.
Your answer here will tell me what is next.
Regarding your question about booster fan, I don't even have mine mated to the grates. One is within a foot of the output vent which cannot be closed/shut off (there must always be one of these). I leave it on high or medium when I want the house heated up or cooled down, and it cuts that time in half or thirds. The entire house gets temp controlled much better just from that alone. The other booster fan I use is in my bedroom, only used during A/C, and is 1-2 feet from the vent, often on low speed. Works fantastic, making that the coolest room in the house, even though it is on the top floor.
Regarding your thermometers, either should work fine. Use both of them in the same spot, and assuming they have the same reading, there is your proof.
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Tired, tired. Cold, cold, cold.
Also wind and rain here.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
6ix,
I didn't realize your blower fan was known to be wonky. I had understood that it was not functioning adequately by your list of symptoms, but didn't know it has never been set correctly to function correctly.
Well... It's not wonky, per se. When the people who lived here before me got foreclosed on, they took a lot of stuff with them. I'm assuming they screwed the furnace up bad when they took out the A/C unit and all the copper right up to the blower. The wiring was bad and the furnace just didn't work at all. I don't remember all the details all these years later and what all I needed to do to get it to work, but it was pretty detailed.
When I say that it's not wonky, what I mean is it always behaves exactly the same... every time it fires up, and for every winter I've lived here. That's not to say that it's set up correctly, just that it doesn't change behavior.
Quote:
Fixing that should fix most of the problems you have. Skip the rest until you get that going.
I don't know about that. There still is the issue of a much less than adequite return system, as well as the blower not putting much force on the hot air by the time it hits the vents, but sure, we'll try this first. :)
Quote:
What is yours currently set at? The settings/pointers/needles should have one in a lower range of numbers, and the other in a higher range of numbers.
Your answer here will tell me what is next.
There's actually three settings. (Refer to the picture above to see all three as that picture is very similar to mine). Many years ago I could tell you what they all did, but I've lost that knowledge in the ether without ever having any use for it again.
I just checked it, and the three "needles" are pointed at 100, 130 and 180. (180 seems to be the maximum for the high end. The unit has higher numbers than that, but there is a piece of metal that is there which seems designed to block you from setting it any higher).
Quote:
Regarding your question about booster fan, I don't even have mine mated to the grates. One is within a foot of the output vent which cannot be closed/shut off (there must always be one of these). I leave it on high or medium when I want the house heated up or cooled down, and it cuts that time in half or thirds. The entire house gets temp controlled much better just from that alone. The other booster fan I use is in my bedroom, only used during A/C, and is 1-2 feet from the vent, often on low speed. Works fantastic, making that the coolest room in the house, even though it is on the top floor.
Remember... my vents are on my ceilings. I'm going to have to figure out a way to make the fans do something worthwhile up there if it comes to that. They're not going to do me much good on the floor.
Quote:
Regarding your thermometers, either should work fine. Use both of them in the same spot, and assuming they have the same reading, there is your proof.
Cool.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
6ix,
I didn't realize your blower fan was known to be wonky. I had understood that it was not functioning adequately by your list of symptoms, but didn't know it has never been set correctly to function correctly.
Well... It's not wonky, per se. When the people who lived here before me got foreclosed on, they took a lot of stuff with them. I'm assuming they screwed the furnace up bad when they took out the A/C unit and all the copper right up to the blower. The wiring was bad and the furnace just didn't work at all. I don't remember all the details all these years later and what all I needed to do to get it to work, but it was pretty detailed.
When I say that it's not wonky... That's not to say that it's set up correctly,Quote:
Fixing that should fix most of the problems you have. Skip the rest until you get that going.
I don't know about that. There still is the issue of a much less than adequite return system, as well as the blower not putting much force on the hot air by the time it hits the vents, but sure, we'll try this first. :)Quote:
What is yours currently set at? The settings/pointers/needles should have one in a lower range of numbers, and the other in a higher range of numbers.
Your answer here will tell me what is next.
There's actually three settings. (Refer to the picture above to see all three as that picture is very similar to mine). Many years ago I could tell you what they all did, but I've lost that knowledge in the ether without ever having any use for it again.
I just checked it, and the three "needles" are pointed at 100, 130 and 180. (180 seems to be the maximum for the high end. The unit has higher numbers than that, but there is a piece of metal that is there which seems designed to block you from setting it any higher).Quote:
Regarding your thermometers, either should work fine. Use both of them in the same spot, and assuming they have the same reading, there is your proof.
Cool.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
This is about what I expected.
Before changing your settings, do the following when you feel up to it. No hurry yet, since it is not cold by you.
Prep for the following steps before actually doing them.
1. Wait until the furnace has been off at least 20 minutes. You can force this situation by turning your thermostat down for this time.
2. Force the thermostat to command the furnace on, and check the time. Best to start this at the top of a minute, unless you have a stopwatch. You can force this command by turning the thermostat up 5-10 degrees above current room temp for this test.
3. Quickly scoot up to your furnace, and listen for when your blower fan turns on. Your furnace will have an combustion fan running while it warms up, and then when warmed up should kick on the blower fan. Notate how many minutes elapsed between Command On and blower fan start. While waiting for this, try to find the warmest surface of the furnace and use a thermometer to measure the temp there. This will not be the actual internal temp that we are looking for, but it will be an indicator. Notate what is the highest temp is at the moment the blower fan turns on.
4. Record these numbers for future comparison, repeat the test to confirm if you choose. Return thermostat to normal.
After that, you can change the needle settings.
I would move your lowest needle down to 90. If like the unit in the picture, be sure to hold the dial assembly from turning or twisting while you move needles. Gently using a fine needlenose might help you adjust them if they are sticky.
The second needle can be left at 130 if you choose, or if room could be nudged to 135 or 140.
Leave the high one alone.
This should be much more efficient. Since you now know your furnace is heating your 1st & 2nd floors to the set temps, now you need to wait until colder weather to find out w
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